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Crashes programme UK Ch 5 Mon 19th 8pm


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#1 RTH

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 19:07

"Crashes that changed the world " Channel 5 Monday 19th Jan at 8 pm

This may well be the worst kind of populist , distasteful, sensationalism, certainly the title does not bode well

I suppose we will not know unless we watch it, - hope for a pleasant surprise.

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#2 Lec CRP1

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 19:35

Channel 5 ? Populist? Distasteful? Sensationalist? Surely you jest, dear boy. :)

#3 Rob29

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 20:16

According to the blurb its a serious investigation of work done since the 70s to improve safety in F1.

#4 RTH

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:23

Tonight Monday 19th Jan - 8.00 pm Channel 5 - UK

#5 bill moffat

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 21:04

Chaotic editing. Insubstantial. In short, tosh (sorry Tiff).

#6 Paul Taylor

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 21:12

No offence to Doug, but that was one of the worst programmes I have EVER seen :rolleyes:

Distasteful is a word you could use for it. It was more of a "I know, let's show computer animated videos of people snapping their necks in racing crashes and try and fit a story line around it" kind of programme. :mad: They showed piles of dead bodies at Le Mans 1955, and yet, failed to exactly show anything other than the morbid side of everything.

Wasn't exactly informative, and maybe they were the 'Crashes That Changed Motor Racing', but everything about it was simply...how shall I put it...? 'Weak'? Totally unnecessary programme. Totally hyped up. Total cr*p.

I'll certainly not keep it on tape... :rolleyes:

#7 condor

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 21:14

Having just finished watching it - thought the first part wasn't quite right.

But it did explain more about the Hans device which I hadn't really understood before - though I had to fight the idea of being squeamish :)

#8 Lec CRP1

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 21:28

It certainly wasn't a great show, or even a good one. Somewhere in those miles of footage they shot and collected there was a decent programme, namely one about the HANS device (running time approx 25 mins). Everything else was cliches - "Yep, put Senna first of course because people remember it. Then do clips, done Clark, done Lauda, done Villeneuve. Yep, the audience will buy this. What? Big accident at Le Mans in 1955? Can't remember that - I'll call up some library footage. And make it dramatic."

Of such things are today's TV programmes made... :rolleyes:

#9 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 22:21

Hmmmm - a rum do wasn't it?. Nice bloke came and shot footage with me back last Autumn for about 40 minutes after describing a totally different programme scenario. Last week I received an e-mail from the Wark-Clements production company saying their programme had been sold to Channel 5 and totally "re-edited to make it suitable for prime time viewing"...

Judging from the finished work's editorial balance it's also been sold for US and Australian general audiences. Isn't the world of television - well - strange...???

DCN

#10 Gary C

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 22:25

thank goodness I managed to forget it was on.........................

#11 Alan Lewis

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 22:30

Originally posted by Gary C
thank goodness I managed to forget it was on.........................


Thank goodness we can't get Channel 5.

APL

#12 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 22:32

Yep - a bit random wasn't it. It didn't really stick to the brief of the title. For example,having showed the Le Mans footage (which most of us will have seen a million times by now anyway) they didn't go on to tell us what aspects of motor racing this accident changed - not that if it did change much anyway.

They also appear to have had licencing difficulties - hence all the computer generated versions of the accidents rather than real footage.

A bit of a dissapointment really.

#13 Gary C

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 22:48

or......................they had to use computer graphics because they were cheaper than Bernie's rates for the ACTUAL footage????

#14 Paul Taylor

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 23:28

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Hmmmm - a rum do wasn't it?. Nice bloke came and shot footage with me back last Autumn for about 40 minutes after describing a totally different programme scenario. Last week I received an e-mail from the Wark-Clements production company saying their programme had been sold to Channel 5 and totally "re-edited to make it suitable for prime time viewing"...

Judging from the finished work's editorial balance it's also been sold for US and Australian general audiences. Isn't the world of television - well - strange...???

DCN


Channel 5 and TV programmes don't seem to go together...maybe they should make some pantomimes for the theatre. What was the original programme like, if it was different to what was broadcast?

#15 MichaelJP

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:00

Originally posted by Gary C
or......................they had to use computer graphics because they were cheaper than Bernie's rates for the ACTUAL footage????


You could be right, but at the time I thought the graphics were shown to avoid accusations of showing "snuff" footage, which surely many would have levelled at the producers if the actual video of the incidents had been shown.

I too thought it was patchy at best, but worth watching. The two highlights to me were the explanations about Zanardi's accident and how miraculous his survival was, and the clear explanation on the HANS device and how it has been a great improvement in safety, particularly for oval racing.

More disappointing though was C4's Spitfire programme - how much more can they pad this one out with Battle of Britain archive footage that has surely been shown a million times - I want to see more of the pupil's lessons and the details of their tuition. Oops, off topic:)

- Michael

#16 BorderReiver

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:17

I watched it last night and felt pretty much the same as all of you guys. Sensationalist "lite" racing history. I don't find the subject of motorsport accidents abhorant, far from it, I think they are an important part of the sports history, however this was such a superficial and random exercise as to prove pointless. Added to that were some worrying factual errors.

Anyone notice Lauda's accident captioned as Spa '76? Then saying the high cockpit sides came in as a result of Senna's accident? No mention of Hakkinen's shunt which was the real spur for it. Then you have short clips of Clark and Villeneuve (including the appalling footage of Villeneuve's accident) with absolutely no explanaition (though I have to confess I have never seen the Villeneuve incident at full speed before, my god it was violent).

To be fair, this is the sort of subject that you cannot condense into an hour of programme very well at all, so we shouldn't be too harsh on channel five. How long before someone makes a proper documentary series about history of motorsport? One decade for every hour long episode? That would be lovely (if the research was good), but I don't want to hold my breath.

I hope the Enzo Ferrari documentary on Friday (C4) will be better.

The highlight for me was being able to put a face to Mr Nye's name :) . Definately the most informative bits of the whole hour. . . .

#17 RTH

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 09:54

Agree with nearly all the comments.

It was worth watching if only for the detail on the HANS device , which convinced me that this should now be mandarory for all forms of car racing - however humble - that really was a very impressive demonstration.

Really anyone seriously racing a Vintage car with no seat belts and no rollover hoop is taking an enormous unnecessary risk.

Little mention was made that run off area has been probably the greatest contributor to safer racing in recent years.

I think the impression was given that particually current F1 cars are very safe, - statistically in the last decade that may appear true, - but I believe we have been very lucky in that respect and that something enormous could easily still happen at any event this year, we have very high cornering speeds, both engine power and downforce have been needlessly allowed to grow to probably double sensible values, that is the responsibility of the FIA.

#18 MichaelJP

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 10:41

Originally posted by RTH
I think the impression was given that particually current F1 cars are very safe, - statistically in the last decade that may appear true, - but I believe we have been very lucky in that respect and that something enormous could easily still happen at any event this year, we have very high cornering speeds, both engine power and downforce have been needlessly allowed to grow to probably double sensible values, that is the responsibility of the FIA.


It does seem that the case of high speed crashes typified by McNish's accident at Suzuka's 130R has now been largely dealt with, for the driver at least; by improved tub crash performance and the HANS device.

I think the main risk now is an open wheel/aero type accident where a car is launched and flies into a spectator area as per Le Mans 1955. And I can't think of many circuits now where that could happen - Monaco? The pit lane is always at risk from that sort of scenario I suppose.

- Michael

#19 bill moffat

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 11:06

Originally posted by MichaelJP


It does seem that the case of high speed crashes typified by McNish's accident at Suzuka's 130R has now been largely dealt with, for the driver at least; by improved tub crash performance and the HANS device.

I think the main risk now is an open wheel/aero type accident where a car is launched and flies into a spectator area as per Le Mans 1955. And I can't think of many circuits now where that could happen - Monaco? The pit lane is always at risk from that sort of scenario I suppose.

- Michael


Absolutely agree. Also remember McNish's F3000 accident at Donington and the massive American oval accidents towards the end of last year. The potential energy of these cars is frightening and they are capable of flying great distances into "impossible" places. I agree with your sentiments but disagree that circuits other than Monaco may be immune from this problem.

We have been lucky for a couple of decades but I fear that it is only time before we see a big F1 accident involving the pit lane/spectator enclosure. Clearly an accident on the Levegh scale would now be intolerable and endanger the future of F1. Time again to look at enclosed wheels ?

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#20 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 14:02

BBC's 1990 series "The Power and The Glory" was a pretty comprehensive history of motor sport. There were enough episodes to cover most of the motor racing categories to a reasonable level. Of course, much has happened since then but it's still worth a look.

Last night's programme was a total mish mash. The narration was all over the place and didn't really stick to what the title described the programme was supposed to be about. I mean, what lessons were learned from Mick Doohan's accidents - apart from the fact that bikers are certified nut cases.

The idea behind the programme was good but it was dreadfully executed.

#21 dolomite

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 14:06

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Then saying the high cockpit sides came in as a result of Senna's accident? No mention of Hakkinen's shunt which was the real spur for it


The Hakkinen accident occurred at the end of the 95 season, after it had already been announced that high cockpit sides would be required from 1996 onwards. I think Wendlinger's shunt at Monaco 94 was more likely the real spur for this requirement.

#22 VAR1016

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 14:13

I was strongly tempted to switch off when I discovered that Tiff Needell was presenting it. I was expecting him at any moment to say "Amaizeeying" in that irritating voice of his. Ugh.

And particularly incompetent was the pictures of Mercedes-Benz and Auto-Unions at Donnington etc., purporting to be "early post-war racing".

The Hans stuff was, I concede informative. I stayed watching because I was looking forward to the Spitfire thing which I did enjoy - the sound alone is great and some of the war footage astounding.

PdeRL

#23 Soichiro

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 16:20

I did not find the opening section as macabre as some had posted. I've seen worse in the British video CAR WARS and similar. The bit on Zanardi was gruesome but not overdone - I thought the animation was a better choice than the photo coverage shown in some mags at the time.

I work at Hubbard/Downing Inc. makers of the HANS device so naturally I thought the last half hour was great. If I can answer any questions about head and neck restraints I would be pleased to do so. We've recently launched a revised website with much more info including two sled test videos you can download and watch. See www.hansdevice.com then click test results for this.

And it was great seeing Doug 'in person'. Regards gm

#24 BRNDLL

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 21:03

Speaking of Doug Nye...

I am totally in love with the show on Speed (here in the states) that is called Victory By Design. I want the job Alain de Cadanet has.

I spotted him (Doug) on the Porsche program talking about historic aspects of the marque. Great stuff. Fun to put a name with a face.

Then a few days later I looked at an auction for a book written by Doug about famous sports cars...

He is everywhere.

bb