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#1 bigears

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 16:45

http://f1.joncher.ne...m..mercedes.jpg

(I am not sure if I should add the image tags due to some rules in here so I added the url tags)

This photo was posted at the AlphaF1.com forums. I am trying to help out this member to identify the photograph.

For some reason, I keep thinking it is at the Boxberg test facility but I got doubts.

So can anyone simply tell me where the photo was taken. Plus some additional information would be great as well. :)

Thank you.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 20:14

The only place I've ever seen photos of banking like that is the Mercedes-Benz test track. Is that the Boxberg facility of which you speak?

#3 2F-001

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 20:36

I have this picture, on page 45 of "Mercedes Benz C111 Experimental Cars" (Paul Frère & Julius Weitmann, Edita, Lausanne, 1981). It is described as the Daimler-Benz test track at Unterturkheim.

#4 2F-001

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 20:40

We usually pass by Boxberg, on he way to the 'Ring - if it's the same one. I didn't realise there was a test track there. Is there any to see for the public?

#5 Geoff E

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 21:46

There is a circular test track in southern Italy apparently - the Nardo Bowl - does anyone know anything else about it? http://www.google.co.....22nardo bowl"

#6 Muzza

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 22:11

I bet a beer this is Untertürkheim - I have seen pictures of it and it looks just like that.

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 22:50

Originally posted by 2F-001
We usually pass by Boxberg, on he way to the 'Ring - if it's the same one. I didn't realise there was a test track there. Is there any to see for the public?

Multimap shows six Boxbergs in Germany (including the one on the road from Gerolstein)

#8 Muzza

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 23:26

Originally posted by David McKinney

Multimap shows six Boxbergs in Germany (including the one on the road from Gerolstein)


Hello, Dave,

According to Daniel King's Racing Circuits website, the Boxberg in question is this one here.

#9 panzani

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 23:52

Boxberg is the circuit Bosch owns and leases for car tests, a proving ground. Porsche and Opel, amongst others, use the site for tests and marketing purposes.
The site is here and has an interesting movie with old footages at the beginning.
No bricks banking tough...

#10 Lotus23

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 03:45

ISTR the C111 did its record-breaking at Nardo.

But I don't know the track well enough to confirm the photo was definitely taken there.

#11 2F-001

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 07:23

Ok - so the Bosch facility is not at "my" Boxberg (near the Nurburgring); that one is firmly in Gemany's luxury car-making zone, nearer to Stuttgart. The pics of Bosch's track show a 3km oval is included, quite steeply banked, but not really like Unterturkheim.

But getting back to the picture:
I'm not sure I explained myself clearly - the pic. I referred to in the Frère/Weitmann book is the same photo - I've no doubt that it is taken at Unterturkeheim - close, I am told - to a D-B facility and museum near Stuttgart.

A friend recalls staying next door in his camper van, when as an automotive design student, he was visiting the car plants and design studios in Germany. He describes the trees and the setting and finding somewhere to climb up scaffolding and peer over the fence before getting thrown out!

The later versions of C111 did, indeed, set a host of records at Nardo, which all the pictures I've seen show as being rather "flatter''. The protoype and earlier versions of the car (rotary-engined) did a fair bit of running at Unterturkheim and also at Nurburgring and Hockenheim. The later versions were what we might think of as out-and-out speed record machines or oval-specials.

The Frère book has loads of details on the various C111s and lots of great pictures, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

#12 bigears

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Posted 07 February 2004 - 11:39

Thank you for the information and description of the contents of the photograph chaps! :clap:

I just remembered why I mentioned Boxberg because of on a the front cover of a fairly recent Motorsport issue of a Bosch sponsored yellow Porsche that was at the Boxberg facility.

#13 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 February 2004 - 17:03

I'm sure this is the high-speed banking of the Unterturkheim test track, which is on the admin offices and Museum site just a few hundred yards from the T80 and the W25s, 125s, 300SLRs etc etc in the Unterturkheim suburb of Stuttgart. The banking struck me as a bit of a party trick really, send a coachload of foreign pressmen round there on their ears and it generates worldwide copy. Nardo is less steeply banked and is a very serious facility - around 7 miles to the lap I think.
No doubt serious work has been carried out at Unterturkheim, but the reality when you visit the place is less than majestic.

DCN

#14 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 11:50

There's a feature on the C111 series at Bolide:

http://www.bolide.co...f?page=c1112003

The car in bigears' picture looks like the C111-II - reading the article, that never seems to have run at Nardo, which was used for the record runs in the C111-III. There are also several other testing pictures, presumably at Unterturkheim, showing the original C111. One thing which makes me wonder though is that the steep banking is being run clockwise, while the Bolide pictures seem to show an anti-clockwise layout. Is there more than one track there?

#15 2F-001

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 13:40

Going by the information in the Frère book, the car in the pic. would be of the prototype -- i.e: pre- C111-I, which was an altogether more finished and 'complete' looking machine, while C111-II had "flying butresses" behind the cabin (rather like that Maserati did some yeras back), and did indeed set a host of records at Nardo.

#16 Doug Nye

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 13:50

Originally posted by Vitesse2
One thing which makes me wonder though is that the steep banking is being run clockwise, while the Bolide pictures seem to show an anti-clockwise layout. Is there more than one track there?


They use the Unterturkheim track in both directions - though at different times.... :stoned:

DCN

#17 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 16:30

The Nardo Proving Ground (near Lecce in southern Italy) circuit was mentioned in this thread, it is popular among many auto manufacturers and tyre manufacturers.

Posted Image
Nardo circuit

Posted Image
The Nardo circuit from above.

#18 2F-001

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 20:24

No chance of an IRL race there, I suppose? :)

#19 mp4

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 00:06

I thought this to be an interesting pic and I'd like to ask something a tad off topic. Please bear with me here...
The pic looks like a Mercedes C111 of some description.
Here's my question for those of you who know a lot more than myself:
Did Keke Rosberg ever test a C111 that had either, a twin turbo diesel or, more probably, a four rotor wankel that was too darned fast for the era? I'm thinking said car did something like 220 mph during a timed lap.
I KNOW I read something about this, in about 1983. I am old, these days, and my brain is more addled than even then.
Can anyone confirm or deny my claim?

Cheers! :wave: :wave:

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#20 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 01:05

mp4, I think you are thinking of this vehicle. It was a diesel powered Volkswagen .

Posted Image
ARVW (1980) 6 Zyl.Turbo-Diesel, 175 PS, 362 km/h (yes actually something like 220mph ;) )


It was driven by Keke Rosberg - at Nardo btw.

The ARVW (Aerodynamic Research Volkswagen) set two world records, and seven class records, for diesel vehicles at the high-speed track in Nardo, Italy. The fastest lap was completed at a speed of 362.07 km/h. This experiment was designed to provide detailed information on the effects of aerodynamics on fuel consumption at high speeds. The drag coefficient of the ARVW, the "Silver Cigar," is 0.15. The test concluded that the vehicle consumed 6 liters per 100 km, at 250 km/h, and at top speed, 13.61 liters per 100 km. In comparison, renowned sports cars required 38 liters of fuel for 100 km.



#21 Alex K.

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 07:34

Hi,

I was at Stuttgart this week and looked for the test track at Untertürkheim. You can't see very much, I believe DaimlerChrysler is not interested for taking pictures of the test track... :)

The turn at Nardo is not as high as the one at Untertürkheim. At Untertürkheim there is a speed limt of 120 km/h, because it is very dangerous, the forces which are working to the car are very high...

Alex