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Best in-car footage?


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#1 Philip Whiteman

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 18:29

If this is a very old chestnut, then I must apologise (although the search engine is currently out of action!)

I have come very late to Duke's In car 956, a DVD that starts badly with some wobbly external shots of our chauffeur, Mr Derek Bell, in the pit lane at Silverstone, then progresses through a diabolical mult-image filter shot of the 956 on the circuit to in-car stuff that gets better and better to the point of being absolutely fabulous. Makes you realise that a lot of the Le Mans in-car stuff was less than balls-out motoring.

I have Circuit Films' Classic Grand Prix Cars, which has Vic Norman lapping a rather scrappy looking Goodwood in his Maserati 250F in 1982 (but is he trying, and the noise...), and Herman Lang's rather steady (well, he did have Bill Mason riding in the back) lap of the Nurnbergring on the old Shell film.

There must be lots of other stuff out there, some rather better than the films I've mentioned. What do you recommend, chaps?

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#2 bill moffat

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 18:54

Dare I mention rallying ?

Just over 20 years ago commercially available in-car footage was in its infancy and generally of poor quality. "In Car Manx" was arguably the daddy of all quality in-car videos. Shot on the first day of the Manx you sit on that hard bit between the 2 rear seats whilst Ari Vatanen scares you witless. The only commentary is Terry Harriman calling the notes.

Reviewing it these days the presentation is pretty amateur, but at the time it was leading-edge technology and the quality of the pictures unrivalled. Worth a look.

#3 dolomite

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 19:00

Lap of the Gods should be top of your shopping list - top notch footage of proper F1 cars on proper circuits in the 70s and 80s.

#4 David Birchall

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 19:39

"The Sound of Speed" Shot at Riverside in the early sixties has the front engined Scarab Formula One car after it had been converted to Chevy V8. Really wonderful, stirring, period stuff, not a word spoken nor is it needed. Stars Lance Reventlow of course,Chuck Daigh, and the crew who provide some comedic input. Wonderful in-car camera work with the car doing an honest-to-god 170 mph at times. Reventlow is a ham actor, Daigh a superior driver who apparently did most of the driving for the movie although Reventlow is shown most of the time-Great Stuff :smoking:

#5 David Lawson

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 19:45

Don't forget the Motorfilms Quarterly Vol 5 with the in car footage of Jim Clark in the Lotus 25.

David

#6 jk

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 20:02

What about Ari Vatanen at the Pike's Peak climb in the 405 T16?
Wonderfull!!

#7 thomaskomm

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 20:13

Hello, have a vid with Formula Vee (Fuchs and Austrovau) Testdriving "Erprobungsfahrten" onboard driving on the old Nuerburgring year 1968 northloop and southloop with Driver and Nuerburgringspeaker
Richard von Frankenberg. Very interesting to see the old Nuerburgring!Amazing drivin on the southloop Bocksberg or last corner on southloop steep and large banking corner!

Thomas

#8 D. Heimgartner

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 21:07

The run through Paris in a Ferrari some early morning: called Il Rendevouz or something...

#9 Frank de Jong

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 21:27

It's called Rendez-vous by Claude Lelouch. You can download it here ; it's a cool 122 Mb.
Dutch magazine Autovisie demasked it a little; the journey (still pretty dangerous) was made most probably with an Alpine A110, mixed with Ferrari sound (330P, by some experts). The identity of the car had been a mystery for years.
Pretty dangerous, as I said - an anecdote was that only at one single blind corner (at the Louvre), a helper was on the outlook for traffic. Contact was by walkie-talkie, and he would give alarm if any traffic was in sight. There was no alarm so the car could cross the Rue the Rivoli at full speed; only afterwards, they found out that the walkie-talkie wasn't working at all.
Fascinating stuff, a bit over-hyped perhaps, but still.

#10 nick stone

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 22:56

There is a short film of Fangio in a 250F completing three laps at what looks to be a disused circuit - probably in Italy. It is extremely vivid in its depiction of what it must have been like to be on board a racing car of that era.

#11 JohnB

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 23:14

Originally posted by nick stone
There is a short film of Fangio in a 250F completing three laps at what looks to be a disused circuit - probably in Italy. It is extremely vivid in its depiction of what it must have been like to be on board a racing car of that era.


I should think that'll be the footage from Modena you mean. I've not got a URL, but it used to be around on the web. (Not really a disused circuit since it was used by Ferrari and Maserati as a test track, and IIRC it held some non-championship F1 races in the '50s, but I agree yes it looks a bit that way on the film - assuming you're talking about the same one).

#12 bigears

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 23:15

It was at Modena. :)

I have just downloaded the Pikes Peak clip after I readed the Ari Vatinen article in the recent Motorsport magazine. It was purely amazing as some stage he was driving one hand and he used his right hand to shield the sun! :eek:

Also the 1973 Nurburgring clip with Jackie Stewart commentary was superb as well.

#13 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 02:21

One of my favorites has always been the movie "Pit Pass" for the opening sequence with nearly a full lap of the Nurburgring on board a type 61 Maserati Birdcage in practice for the 1961 1000K race. It is Lucky Casner at the wheel of the Camarodi car which won the race with Casner and Masten Gregory up. It is a great look of what the Ring was like - at speed! - at that time. At least that's how I remember it. I haven't been able to view it in some time because I loaned it to a friend and it came back broken! If I ever found another copy I would buy it in a heart beat. It was produced by Pure Oil Company. I was talking to my father about it the other day and I remembered that the movie premiered at Watkins Glen with a gala event the weekend of the 1961 USGP. He told me that Pure paid a handsome fee for the rights to screen it that weekend.

#14 Gary Davies

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 09:52

Fractionally OT but during the GP transmission following Senna's death in 1994, Channel Nine here in Oz ran a piece on him which contained in-car footage of a lap of Monaco in a McLaren-Honda. The music under was Eric Clapton's 'Tears in heaven' and whilst one did not engage in the histrionic outpourings of emotion surrounding Ayrton's sad demise, the combination of that footage with that music at that time well and truly brought a tear to my eyes.

I'd love to hear how that sequence affected other Oz TNFers.

#15 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 09:56

Frank, can you explain how Autovisie magazine did demask the fact that it was an Alpine rather than a Ferrari as used in the "C'etatiat un rendez vous" movie?

I know that Lelouch owned a Ferrari and drove it himself (as he explained in an interview).

Stopping the movie at certain spots you can see the reflection of the head lights in some windows. It looks GTB shape but it could be Alpine as well...

Note that the track is still virtually unchanged after all these years (just kidding). But serious, I noticed a few months ago that e.g. the poles in the road at the Louvre passage are still there. Maybe time for a new record attempts?

#16 soubriquet

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 10:22

I watched Rendezvous a couple of weeks ago. My *opinion* is that it is a work of fiction. This opinion is based on the difference between the sound track (Ferrari beind maxed in 5th) and the images of on-coming traffic, static objects etc being passed at relatively slow speeds.

If anyone knows the physical distance covered, we know the time taken, so a simple average speed can be calculated, or even the section times. If anyone wants to supply the distances, I can time the DVD.

#17 René de Boer

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 10:39

I really like the work by Austrian film maker Helmut Deimel, and especially his rally films. "Die Evolution des Driftwinkels" (English title "The history of rallying") to me is an absolute classic, including awesome in-car footage of Walter Röhrl in various machinery, most notably his "stepdance" on the pedals of an Audi quattro. Just great stuff!

#18 karlcars

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 11:19

I must confess to a major weakness for 'Sound of Speed' because I drove that same car on that same track in 1961. A great experience! And nice to step into a car that really fit me!

I was fairly close to the Scarab people then and also to racer Bruce Kessler, who made the film. I arranged for it to be shown to the people at GM Styling Staff after I started doing PR for them in 1962. Talk about a major success! Of course Bill Mitchell later borrowed that same car and rebodied it completely as the X-15 -- which he drove to and from work!!!

BTW, I organised in-car shots of Ron Grable driving an F5000 car at Mid-Ohio for a film I wrote for L&M entitled 'For Love and Money', back in the heyday of that series. They were pretty darn good! I'm still trying to track down a video of that film.

#19 dosco

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 14:36

Originally posted by Vanwall
Fractionally OT but during the GP transmission following Senna's death in 1994, Channel Nine here in Oz ran a piece on him which contained in-car footage of a lap of Monaco in a McLaren-Honda.

I'd love to hear how that sequence affected other Oz TNFers.


I'm a Yank, but I've seen the clip on "F1 Saga" as broadcast here in the States on "Speed Channel." FWIW there was no Eric Clapton....just the in-car footage.

I vividly recall watching that sequence....WOW! Totally spectacular, and what sticks out in my mind was how much Senna was "thrown around" the cockpit while driving. Simply amazing.

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#20 panzani

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 15:48

I have this Monaco lap, as well as one from Suzuka, on my HD, mpeg format, but I have no place to put it available to the TNFers. They are 6.5 and 11.5 MB...
They are amazing, from the time a driver had to change gears, brake, correct spins, throttle, etc.. No TC, LC, fly-by-wire, auto-gears, auto-clutch, auto-everything...

#21 bigears

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 18:27

Hmm I would love to see this clip of Senna's lap around Monaco.

I will ask around at the tbk.fameflame.dk forums to see if the clip is around in the Net.

#22 Frank de Jong

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 18:30

Originally posted by soubriquet
I watched Rendezvous a couple of weeks ago. My *opinion* is that it is a work of fiction. This opinion is based on the difference between the sound track (Ferrari beind maxed in 5th) and the images of on-coming traffic, static objects etc being passed at relatively slow speeds.

If anyone knows the physical distance covered, we know the time taken, so a simple average speed can be calculated, or even the section times. If anyone wants to supply the distances, I can time the DVD.


Autovisie measured the average speed after the start to the Place de la Concorde (two long avenues) at 106,4 kmh. The avarage over the whole distance is - 78,1 kmh...

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Frank, can you explain how Autovisie magazine did demask the fact that it was an Alpine rather than a Ferrari as used in the "C'etatiat un rendez vous" movie?

I know that Lelouch owned a Ferrari and drove it himself (as he explained in an interview).

Stopping the movie at certain spots you can see the reflection of the head lights in some windows. It looks GTB shape but it could be Alpine as well...

Note that the track is still virtually unchanged after all these years (just kidding). But serious, I noticed a few months ago that e.g. the poles in the road at the Louvre passage are still there. Maybe time for a new record attempts?


Autovisie says the following.
The myth says it was a Ferrari 275GTB. On the longest avenue the car seems to reach the rev limit in fifth gear, would mean 250 kmh at least. The speed calculated from the movie (see above) is rather lower, probably not over 120 anywhere, which seems logical if you look at the speed of the cars which were overtaken - they were slower but not 200 kmh slower.

So the sound and the car look like two different things. The sound could be a 330P (as analysed by Ferrari connaisseur Jean-Louis Bezemer), perhaps Pierre Bardinon's car, who could have made the sound track on his own circuit. Finally, Bezemer found "someone" who told off-the-record that it had been an Alpine Berlinetta driven by Jean-Louis Schlesser - not Lelouch.

120 kmh only? When autovisie tried with a Chrysler Crossfire, they reached the finish in 39 minutes...

#23 dolomite

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 18:34

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Note that the track is still virtually unchanged after all these years (just kidding). But serious, I noticed a few months ago that e.g. the poles in the road at the Louvre passage are still there. Maybe time for a new record attempts?


Maybe it's time for someone to make a version for GPL? :lol:

#24 soubriquet

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 20:25

Originally posted by Frank de Jong

Autovisie measured the average speed after the start to the Place de la Concorde (two long avenues) at 106,4 kmh. The avarage over the whole distance is - 78,1 kmh...


It walks like a fish, and talks like a fish.

It's a fish.

Thanks, Frank.

#25 David Birchall

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 21:04

[QUOTE]Originally posted by karlcars
[B]I must confess to a major weakness for 'Sound of Speed' because I drove that same car on that same track in 1961. A great experience! And nice to step into a car that really fit me!

I was hoping to get a response from Karl since I knew he was involved in the making of this movie but I am surprised that no one else responded this time or the last time I mentioned "The Sound of Speed". Is that because it is not generally known or because others don't feel the same way about it?
David B

#26 doc540

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 21:35

..."in-car footage of a lap of Monaco in a McLaren-Honda."

Most incredible in-car footage I've ever seen.

:eek:

#27 Svend

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 03:46

Originally posted by doc540
..."in-car footage of a lap of Monaco in a McLaren-Honda."

Most incredible in-car footage I've ever seen.

:eek:



Agreed.
Exiting Loews hairpin, one hand on the wheel, full opposite lock to counter wheelspin and shifting at the same time. Great stuff.

I'm still waiting for the Lap of the Gods-tapes to be released on DVD. Might as well order the 956 DVD in the meantime.

#28 Bernd

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:00

Originally posted by David Lawson
Don't forget the Motorfilms Quarterly Vol 5 with the in car footage of Jim Clark in the Lotus 25.

David


That's Gold isn't it. There is also footage taken around the same time of Jimmy at Brands Hatch. I like Oulton Park better though.

#29 bigears

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:02

I definitely recommend the 956 DVD as it got the Mosport onboard from Vern Stuppen as the video version didn't have the Mosport footage.

The Le Mans and the old Ring footage is superb I must say. Although it is a sad event for me as it is the last international race at the old Ring. :(

#30 Gary C

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 07:54

Best on-board footgae ever?? Easy! Me in the Historic Formula Ford race at the Ford Formula Festival on the Brands Hatch Indy circuit last year -- I can't stop watching it!!! LOL

#31 dosco

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 13:38

Originally posted by Gary C
Best on-board footgae ever?? Easy! Me in the Historic Formula Ford race at the Ford Formula Festival on the Brands Hatch Indy circuit last year -- I can't stop watching it!!! LOL


Cool. Where can I download an MPEG? ;)

#32 petefenelon

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 16:21

Originally posted by soubriquet
I watched Rendezvous a couple of weeks ago. My *opinion* is that it is a work of fiction. This opinion is based on the difference between the sound track (Ferrari beind maxed in 5th) and the images of on-coming traffic, static objects etc being passed at relatively slow speeds.

If anyone knows the physical distance covered, we know the time taken, so a simple average speed can be calculated, or even the section times. If anyone wants to supply the distances, I can time the DVD.


Agreed here - it may have been driven in the Ferrari, but the soundtrack bears no resemblance to what the car's doing on film. I think various people have calculated that the highest speed reached was of the order of 160-180km/h - definitely not maximum revs in top on a Ferrari of that era.

#33 Rob G

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 16:45

A couple of years ago Speed Channel broadcast a preview show of the Isle of Man TT and included an entire full-speed onboard lap of the circuit. Simply unbelievable footage. It's a shame it was chopped up with so many commercial breaks though. I had planned on catching a rebroadcast of it and taping it, pausing the recording at every commercial, but sadly I never saw it again. :|

#34 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 16:47

Thank you Frank! I think the Rendez Vous film is indeed a movie in the sense that it takes you away from reality and plays with your emotions. It was made by Lelouch, a film director. But motor racing does the same, doesnt it.

In car footage I enjoyed was 1986 with Nakajima in the Lotus. The fun was that by the time the TV director rememebered he could switch to his fastest camera man (after all the hectic at the start), poor Saturo was close to his a DNF or contact was unreliable at the moment.

#35 karlth

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 17:07

Onboards from modern F1 cars are usually not as impressive due not the least to the lack of sliding but this onboard with Michael Schumacher on a qualifying lap in Sepang in 2000 is truly impressive. One of a handful at best onboards where you can sense the speed of these 800hp+ monsters in high speed corners.

#36 Viss1

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 17:14

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
So the sound and the car look like two different things.

Definitely agree with that. In addition to the speed/revs mismatch, there's one point where an audio edit/fade can be clearly heard.

#37 dosco

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 17:21

Originally posted by karlth
Onboards from modern F1 cars are usually not as impressive due not the least to the lack of sliding but this onboard with Michael Schumacher on a qualifying lap in Sepang in 2000 is truly impressive. One of a handful at best onboards where you can sense the speed of these 800hp+ monsters in high speed corners.


Cool. I especially love the rapid-fire up and down shifts......

#38 karlth

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:07

Originally posted by dosco


Cool. I especially love the rapid-fire up and down shifts......


And his massive correction in the middle of the ultra fast turn 12 is a bit of an eye opener.

#39 race addicted

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:17

Could anyone provide me with the infamous onboard Senna Monaco pole lap '88. I used to have it, but then my PC crashed....
Great clip, Karl!
Got any more?

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#40 race addicted

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:19

I tried to save the clip but I don't know where the h*** it got to.... :

#41 dosco

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:27

Originally posted by karlth


And his massive correction in the middle of the ultra fast turn 12 is a bit of an eye opener.


Agreed. His slide was rather lurid...... :eek:

#42 karlth

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:30

The two best onboard clips I've got are both from last season. The first one from Silverstone a single lap taken immediately after a restart. On it we see Raikkonen overtaking two and Montoya three cars - all in a single lap.

The second one starts just before a restart on a very wet Interlagos track. It is from Michael Schumacher's car who at the start is sandwiched between Ralf in front of him and Montoya immediately behind. With nearly non existent visibility we see Michael fighting a losing battle with his Bridgestone intermediates while Montoya not only overtakes him but Ralf and Jarno Trulli as well, again in one lap.

#43 race addicted

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:37

All nice and rosy, but I want those clips too! :mad: :)

#44 Frank de Jong

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 18:45

By the way, my favourite in-car footage is Gerhard Berger at Hockenheim ca. 1994-1995, jumping over the chicanes. That's the one I remember best.

#45 Michael Oliver

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 20:35

Originally posted by thomaskomm
Hello, have a vid with Formula Vee (Fuchs and Austrovau) Testdriving "Erprobungsfahrten" onboard driving on the old Nuerburgring year 1968 northloop and southloop with Driver and Nuerburgringspeaker
Richard von Frankenberg. Very interesting to see the old Nuerburgring!Amazing drivin on the southloop Bocksberg or last corner on southloop steep and large banking corner!

Thomas


Hi Thomas

Does your video have a lap of the Sudschleife as well as the Nordschleife? If so, I would be very interested to find out where I can buy this, if it is possible to buy it still....

Michael

#46 smithy

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 22:42

Damon Hill in the Jordan at the British GP in 1999 on a damp track. Definately no traction control in the Jordan then as he powerslides from the apex of Abbey all the way to the edge of the track.

And the Director switched to his car at that point almost every lap. :up:

#47 RSNS

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 23:27

Originally posted by thomaskomm
Hello, have a vid with Formula Vee (Fuchs and Austrovau) Testdriving "Erprobungsfahrten" onboard driving on the old Nuerburgring year 1968 northloop and southloop with Driver and Nuerburgringspeaker
Richard von Frankenberg. Very interesting to see the old Nuerburgring!Amazing drivin on the southloop Bocksberg or last corner on southloop steep and large banking corner!

Thomas


Is that still available? And, if yes, what is the title - or the way to get it?

Thank you in advance.

RSNS

#48 Krayy

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 00:08

In keeping with the spirit of Lelouch's Rendezvous, I recall seeing a short film of some Japanese maniac in an F40 on a Tokyo freeway that got onto a "Worst Drivers" TV show. He had mounted the camera just next to the drivers head, and you could see the tacho as it wound out towards the redline in every gear and the speedo hit 300+km/h. On this freeway, there were high(ish, I mean, hes only 35 inches off the deck) concrete walls, and it was fairly curvy, so he couldn't see what was coming next. In fact, I do recall seeing a dot growing larger at a horrendous speed and morphing into a delivery truck that he went past at 200+. What WAS great was the way the F40's tacho spun towards the redline like it was in a Keystone Kops film, namely 3 times faster than normal - in EVERY gear.

I'm not sure if this was the same idiot who went on to crashing his F40 in the Australian Northern Territory Cannonball run in the mid 90s, killing a timekeeper in the process after he yanked on the handbrake to miss overshooting a checkpoint at around 180km/h.

That being said, heres a site that may interest anyone who wants to own an F40 at half the price.

http://www.f40.co.nz/f40/index.htm

This thing'll outperform a Kosher F40 at every aspect, and is a sight to behold in the flesh (so to speak).

#49 RX-7

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 02:57

Best onboards? A collection of Japanese documentaries called "Drivers Eyes".In particular Ayrton Senna's. This video is superb! Senna in the Mclarens and Loti around Monaco Suzuka simply awe inspiring. All the wrestling with the wheel,the shifts, while the throttle control is so delicate. I have watched this tape over 20 times!! It's that good.AAA+ Also Michael Schumacher's onboards from the 92 Monaco G.P. are great.

#50 Gary Davies

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 09:11

Originally posted by karlth
Onboards from modern F1 cars are usually not as impressive due not the least to the lack of sliding but this onboard with Michael Schumacher on a qualifying lap in Sepang in 2000 is truly impressive. One of a handful at best onboards where you can sense the speed of these 800hp+ monsters in high speed corners.


Don't want to be a wet blanket and with the greatest of respect for Schumacher The Elder's exquisite skill and the all round excellence of the modern Ferrari single seater -- I found that footage underwhelming. This may be due to the sad state of Olde Fartdom sitting comfortably on my shoulders but, to cite just one example, Bell's hot lap at Nürburgring in the 956 is world's apart. Surely?

Perhaps, though, it's just that the fruit of Herr Tilke's labour leaves me cold. :|