83 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

I had a look in the TNF Archives but it seems like my question has not been discussed.

So here we go...

I just a tad curious about the Maki F101 of 1974. At the presentation in London's West End, during the spring of 1974, a quite futuristic looking car with full-width nose - with an adjustable wing built into it - was shown. A picture below of the occasion is attached.

In July 1974 the Maki F101 appears at the British GP, and now the car is completely transformed, not a single piece of bodywork seem to remain from the original car.

The original car I assume was built in Japan, so I believe that transformation took place in Britain.

Anyone who recall anything about this?


The Maki F101 at Carlton Tower Hotel, London West End.

[Kojima_KE007]

RN,

The transformation took place in Slough, at Howden Ganley's garage where Maki Engineerign was based in England, between their first test at Goodwood held on 23/03/1974 and second test that was planned on 15/04/1974.

The original chassis, No.000 remained in Japan and the chassis revealed in London was built from the parts they exported from Japan, which was designated as the chassis No.001... I think.

[bill moffat]

The Maki's career is pretty well documented in most contemporary literature. I was talking to Tony Trimmer a couple of months ago, he having the dubious pleasure of jockeying this device around Silverstone.

I accused him of scaring me witless as I spectated from a vantage point alongside Woodcote. He quite correctly pointed out that the view from behind the wheel was infinitely more terrifying. The car was greatly under-developed and would exhibit this by routinely pulling out suspension mounts on faster corners. Brave man our Tony.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Did they ever test the car in its original configuration?

Was it a classic case of a design by stylists which didn't work in real life?

However the car looked more interesting in its original guise than the car that actually went on to race.

Nevertheless a brave effort not only by the drivers ;)

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Did they ever test the car in its original configuration?

However the car looked more interesting in its original guise than the car that actually went on to race.

;)

I don't think so. Note the lack of rear view mirrors, I believe the theory was that they would be redundant in a car that would inevitably qualify last and retire long before the quick boys came up to lap it ;)

[Kojima_KE007]

Yes, they did test the F101 at Goodwood driven by Howden Ganley.

The reason why the original design was abandoned was because of its weight and over heating problem.

The designer, Kenji Mimura took the deformable structure regultion too literally and ended up with a very heavy chassis. When they came over to Europe and saw the other competitors' cars, that is when they realized that the others weren't taking the regulation as seriously as they were.

So, chassis wise, the main difference between the F101 and F101B is its deformable structure and radiator configurations to reduce weight and over heating.

By the way, many people did test their cars without rear view mirrors in those days.

[Kojima_KE007]

I just dug out an old Japanese magazine and it said;

"Because it is Maki Engineering's first attempt at Formula One, their aim is to obtain as much information as possible with the F101. Their first priority was the safety, so every parts were designed with more than sufficient stiffness. By doing so, the weight increased considerably which lead to loss of competitiveness. A realistic challenge can only be expected from the following year onwards."

Apologies for my English as it is a very quick translation.

[petefenelon]

That front bodywork looks illegal anyway - wasn't it a no-no to have bodywork behind the wheels that extended in width beyond the centre of the wheel?

[PeterElleray]

I seem to remember contemporary reports that suggested that it was the original bodyworks almost total lack of compliance with the existing regulations that lead to the adoption of the more conventional body seen in '74/'75. Incidentally, i worked for Hiroshi Fushida in his role as Operations Director at Tom's/rtn for over a decade, and despite many attempts i could never get more than an enigmatic smile out of him when the subject of the Maki came up. He was eventually reunited with the restored car (owned then by Jan Lammers) at Snetterton in the early 90's, and i remember pictures in the press of him sitting in the car.

[Kojima_KE007]

I have just been reading through some Japanese magazines from 1974 and some magazine articles from last year (2003), but I can not see anywhere that the F101 did not comply with the regulations... although, it does emphsise the fact that the F101 was only intended for data acquisition purpose. So, it is a very big possibility.

By the way, Maki apparantly tested with the original F101 4 or 5 times.

[eldougo]

eterElleray
.
He was eventually reunited with the restored car (owned then by Jan Lammers) at Snetterton in the early 90's, and i remember pictures in the press of him sitting in the car.
This comment has raised a few questions for me. Did Jan lammers own other old cars, And why
or how did he get a Maki f1 car ????????

[Arjan de Roos]

Jan Lammers had the car restored in the UK. It was said that it was in a better shape and far more competitive as it had ever been. The car looked quite good at that time.

Jan Lammers is not known to own many (historic) racing cars. He is a professional racer, so he gets to drive many modern and historic cars. For instance with the Barron Racing team that can field today many historic Ferraris (512M, Daytona Competizione, F2001, etc.).

[Rainer Nyberg]

Some pictures of the "Jan Lammers" car here.

[PeterElleray]

Ok, here we go ..

The F101 was said to be illegal at the time because of the width and height of the nose bodywork (higher than the front wheel rim , wider than the maximum allowable infront of the front wheel), and also i think, because the side pods took the 'coachwork' over the 140cm allowed at the time (I have to say that in the picture shown it doesn't look that obvious - i think there is a shot of the car testing at Goodwood , Ganley driving. which shows this much better). The 'coachwork' behind the front wheels is also higher than the wheels, which i think was another reason cited at the time (anybody have access to the 1974 FiA yearbook?). Having said all of that, i always quite liked that initial body, although i never quite worked out how the cooling system was supposed to work on it, and there are some interesting ideas in there which would resurface in the years to come.
On a slightly different note, i have only ever seen one picture of the 1976 version, from Autosport Oct '76. Anyone have any other shots (Kojima?). Another interesting car.

[Kojima_KE007]

Originally posted by PeterElleray
Ok, here we go ..

The F101 was said to be illegal at the time because of the width and height of the nose bodywork (higher than the front wheel rim , wider than the maximum allowable infront of the front wheel), and also i think, because the side pods took the 'coachwork' over the 140cm allowed at the time (I have to say that in the picture shown it doesn't look that obvious - i think there is a shot of the car testing at Goodwood , Ganley driving. which shows this much better). The 'coachwork' behind the front wheels is also higher than the wheels, which i think was another reason cited at the time (anybody have access to the 1974 FiA yearbook?). Having said all of that, i always quite liked that initial body, although i never quite worked out how the cooling system was supposed to work on it, and there are some interesting ideas in there which would resurface in the years to come.
On a slightly different note, i have only ever seen one picture of the 1976 version, from Autosport Oct '76. Anyone have any other shots (Kojima?). Another interesting car.

Peter,

I do have a picture of F101 being tested at Goodwood driven by Ganley and some pictures of the F102A, the 1976 car. However, the pictures are in extremely bad quality because of my printer... but if there is any request, I will scan them and put them up here.

Regarding the "Jan Lammers" Maki F101C, I think it was put together by a person who used to work for TWR.

[uechtel]

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007


...but if there is any request...

Me!

[PeterElleray]

Kojima,
I would be really interested to see them - can you tell us any more about the '76 car, its origins have always interested me, i did see one contemporary report refer to it as the 'new Maki, or perhaps on closer inspection, not so new Maki..'. Was it derived from the earlier cars in any way?
BTW your restoration website is a real treat for anyone intersetd in the 70's GP car. A great pity the car never came to Europe in either '77 or '78, the detail pictures that you present show how its design and construction stand up very well indeed against its contemporaries.

[Kojima_KE007]

Originally posted by PeterElleray
Kojima,
I would be really interested to see them - can you tell us any more about the '76 car, its origins have always interested me, i did see one contemporary report refer to it as the 'new Maki, or perhaps on closer inspection, not so new Maki..'. Was it derived from the earlier cars in any way?
BTW your restoration website is a real treat for anyone intersetd in the 70's GP car. A great pity the car never came to Europe in either '77 or '78, the detail pictures that you present show how its design and construction stand up very well indeed against its contemporaries.

I'll start off with a couple of pictures from the Goodwood test. Apologies for the incredibly poor picture quality... I am planning on reprinting all Maki and Kojima articles again (in a much better quality I hope... , so I will put them up again when I have better quality pictures.

Peter,

The F102A is a very different car from the F101 series. Its chassis has become very narrow and trapezium shaped compared to the F101's wide and boxy chassis, to try make it as light as possible. The other reason why so different probably being that their desginers are different. F102A was solely designed by Kenji Mimura, whereas the F101 series were designed by Kenji Mimura "AND" Masao Ono. I think you will agree with me when you see the pictures I have.

What people tend to forget is the fact that Maki was from Japan. There may not be much problems in acquiring materials such as titanium or as good a quality matrials as European competitors today, but 30 years ago, it was a completely different story.Also, without Maki's challenge, Kojima would never have turned out as well as it did in our opinion.

Thanks for visting our website. and yes, it was a gerat shame that Kojima did not compete in the opening rounds of 1977 season as originally planned...

[uechtel]

[Kojima_KE007]

and here are the pictures of the Maki F102A, 1976 car.



Maki Engineering's involvement in this car was only its desgin. It was built by KC Engineering (formed by a former Maki Engineering stuff) and ran by Hot Stuff Racing.

[Pedro 917]

Here are some pictures I took in 1974, British GP at Brands Hatch :

Paddock :





and Ganley coming out of Druids :

[Kojima_KE007]

Pedro 917,

Fantastic pictures!!

[PeterElleray]

Hi Kojima,
Thanks for the pictures and background. I think i may be able to scan a different shot from Goodwood from Autosport, i'll try and locate it over the next few days. Interstingly, having seen the two f101 shots you post i am not so sure about the bodywork legality issues that were raised at the time. I will attempt to dig a bit deeper.

The f102A shots - overhead shot , i think, is the one that appeared in UK Autosport at the time, the other pit lane shot i haven't seen before. Very obviously a totally different car to the F101, so i wonder what the contemporary comment i quoted above was all about? A very intriguing machine indeed, with several ideas that would have represented fresh thinking at the time. Any idea where it might be these days?

BTW, thanks to Pedro 917 for those f101 shots from Brands.

[Kojima_KE007]

I have just reprinted some Maki articles at a slightly better quality and here are the pictures.

23/03/1974, Goodwood test





Peter,

I have another picture of the F102A, so I will put that one up later as well.

Regarding the contemprary report, any chance that they were talking about the rear end of the car only, insead of the whole car? As both of those cars used Ford DFV and Hewland gearbox, it tends to become similar and looking at other close up pictures I have, rear uprights (or whole of the rear end?) on the F102A probably do come from F101 series.

[PeterElleray]

Kojima,
This is good stuff! First shot i have seen of the original car with the body removed, i will study in more detail after downloading.

Would definately like to see the rest of the F102 pictures. It would make a lot of sense if the remark about 'not so new' was a reference to the rear of the car, clearly from the chassis rear bulkhead forward they are totally different. Probably a rather unfair comment in that case, it was not exactly uncommon in those days to bolt the complete rear end of the old car onto a new chassis design. I can never remember the British press being terribly pro-Maki at any stage.

Any info on the F102's history after Fuji 76, it wasn't entered for and didn't turn at the '77 race as i recall ?

[Kojima_KE007]

Peter,

I have another 5 pictures of the original Maki F101 without its bodywork as well, if you want me to put them up.

The F102A only appeared at 1976 Japanese GP and never appeared again after that. IIRC, European teams even protested aginst it not to be run in qualifying sessions because the build quality was so poor.

[PeterElleray]

Kojima,
Yes, please do post/ I wasn't ware of the protests about the f102, perhaps we should get Tony Trimmer to post here about it - i could perhaps try and get Hiroshi Fushida to comment (at last!) about the 1975 car, he is back in Japan now, but i can contact him.

[Kojima_KE007]

Originally posted by PeterElleray
Kojima,
Yes, please do post/ I wasn't ware of the protests about the f102, perhaps we should get Tony Trimmer to post here about it - i could perhaps try and get Hiroshi Fushida to comment (at last!) about the 1975 car, he is back in Japan now, but i can contact him.

It would be fantastic if we could do that.

In a magazine interview took place last year, both designers Kenji Mimura and Masao Ono said that although they didn't do much in terms of results Maki experience was one of their best and most influential. All team members were only in their 20s at the time and they were happy just to be able to spend the time with the other European teams and gain valuable experience. Time was different...

I wonder what the drivers thought of their experience with Maki...

[marat]

Two photos taken at the 1975 German GP (practice).

[PeterElleray]

Looks like its time I emailed Hiroshi then.. Who can contact TT?

[Kojima_KE007]

Originally posted by PeterElleray
Looks like its time I emailed Hiroshi then.. Who can contact TT?

What is Tony Trimmer exactly doing these days? Any chance of Fushida san still keeping in touch with him?

[Paul Taylor]

Last time I saw Tony Trimmer out and about was a few years ago, driving a 1970s Lola at a historic event, at Brands Hatch.

Was anyone there? There was a little pileup at the first corner I filmed it with my video camera, if anyone wants to see

[Kojima_KE007]

I've just looked up Tony Trimmer in "oldracingcars.com" and as Paul rightly mentioned, he is racing in historic and GT events.

I wonder if he would want to drive the F101C again...

[Kojima_KE007]

F101



F102A



Looking at the pictures of F101C and F102A, the front wing looks pretty similar as well.

[David Lawson]

Here is the one and only photograph I took of the car breaking heavily for Druids at the 1974 British Grand Prix practice.



David

[Kojima_KE007]

Going back to the original question of this thread, Kenji Mimura recalls in a magazine interview that the transformation took place about a month prior to their debut race at Brands Hatch in July 1974. The reason behind this was because the driver, Howden Ganley told them that he will not drive the car in its original form and the only thing that remained was the rear wing. So they were originally intending to race the F101 at their first GP.

[Pedro 917]

I've noticed that my pictures taken in the paddock show a different rear wing than the one on the action picture. So they probably made adjustments in between practice sessions.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Kojima, did the original designers rework the car or did Howden Ganley contribute anything at all?

[PeterElleray]

Hi Kojima.

Interesting to read Mimura san's remarks. I recall HG was in the process of building his own F1 car in the late 70's, i wonder if there was some cross over here.
If you look at the excellent detail shots which you have posted i think its probably the case that the basic chassis is the same, and that to satisfy Ganrey-san the car was basically rebodied. The original car has extensions to the chassis side which house the radiators and ducting. It looks like these were removed and more conventional GRP side protection structures, as regulated at the time, added with the radiators moved back to a postion not unlike the March 741 which Ganley drve in South America. The engine cover has gone, to be replaced by the more conventional airbox, and obviously the full width nose with it. However, the basic chassis, with those very distinctive front top wishbones, looks the same.
Perhaps you could just clarify one thing - was the 75 car a rebuild or a new car after the accident at Nurburgring 74?
I have emailed HF, so keep your fingers crossed...

[Kojima_KE007]

Pedro 917

As you have rightly mentioned, the rear wing shown on your pictures taken in the paddock looks certainly different (end plate definately is different) to the one used during the practice, but any chance that wing being a dummy for transportation use?

Rainer

Let's put some facts straight to start with regarding designers because I was wrong...

Apparantly, the chassis were designed by Masao Ono and the body work were designed by Kenji Mimura.

According to Kenji Mimura, Howden Ganley did request them to change some safety features such as the roll-over hoop (originally made out of steel and changed into aluminum by Ganley's request) etc but nothing more than that. However, I suspect he had quite a considerable input in designing the F101B.

Peter

I absolutely agree with you that the basic chassis remained from the original F101 and the later F101B and C are rebodied versions of the F101.

Regarding the chassis (No.002) that was damaged at Nurburgring in '74, Masao Ono says that it was destoroyed as the damage was so severe.

Chassis numbers

Again, according to Ono-san, Maki produced 4 chassis in total and they took 3 of them to the UK in 1974.

Chassis No.001 is the one and only chassis that remained in Japan with the original body work. Chassis No.002 being the one shown to the press at Carlton Tower Hotel in London and later coverted into F101B, also the one crashed at Nurburgring.

The other two chassis were regarded as the spares and had no chassis numbers. So, they took the chassis number plate from the damaged chassis No.002 and put that plate to one of the spare chassis therefore leaving the other spare chassis without a chassis number.

I hope it makes sense...

[Pedro 917]

A translation from French Sport-Auto / September '74 issue :

Maki :

First appearance of the Japanese Formula 1. The car wasn't ready for the first day of practice and when the immense truck entered the paddock on Friday morning, they told driver Howden Ganley : "You have the biggest truck of them all". Ganley replied in a sad mood : "It's also the biggest car!" Effectively, the Maki is very big and more important, very heavy. The car was modified nevertheless, particularly the radiators were brought to the back just like the March. In spite of his heroic efforts, Ganley didn't have a single chance to get qualified.

[PeterElleray]

Kojima, surely that should be change an aluminium roll hoop to a steel hoop?
Thanks for the information about chassis numbers, so that would be 3 complete cars of the original type, plus one spare tub plus 1 F102?
Which car did Lammers restore, or was it built up around the remaining spare tub?

[Kojima_KE007]

Peter,

No, it is from steel to aluminium. As I have mentioned earlier, their first priority was safety when they designed and built the F101 so they used steel to make sure that it was safe. However, Ganley requested them to remove most of the safety features and use aluminium instead of steel where possible to save weight because the original F101 weighted nearly 700kg... This is according to Kenji Mimura's interview by the way...

F101

001: With original body work and stayed in Japan (rolling chassis)

002: Appeared in front of the press in London with the original body work, later converted into F101B and Ganley had the accident at Nurburgring. It was later destoroyed because of the damage.

Two spare chassis originally without chassis numbers: One of them was given the chassis number plate taken from 002 (therefore became 002-B, if you like), probably the 1975 "Citizen" car.

F102A

Unknown chassis number (001 maybe?) : The only F102A built.

I am only guessing this but from what I know, Jan Lammers's car seems to be the 002-B.


Pedro 917,

Thanks for the translation!!

[PeterElleray]

Kojima,

My God !...

I can think of a few other places i'd take the weight off first, or maybe just live with it...

700 kg is pretty impressive for a 575 kg weight limit, although there would have been quite a few cars over it at the time.

These insights are fascinating - any more from that interview?

[Kojima_KE007]

Peter,

I don't know if Maki's 700kg was impressive to be honest... Even after the modification, they only saved around 20-30kg, meaning that even F101B and C were nearly 100kg over the weight limit...

Kenji Mimura and Masao Ono both said that they were surpirsed to see European teams not taking the new deformable structure regulation (which came into force in 1974) seriously. People were sticking absolute minimal amount ior even less than that...) of deformable material onto the inside of the body work instead of on the outside of the actual fuel tanks, which is what the original Maki F101 had.

Mimura-san also recalls that they asked for and took drivers' advise when it came to safety features such as the roll-over hoop that I mentioned. Maki F101B and C sometimes are regarded as one of the unsafest cars, but I don't know if that was just down to the designers...

Regarding the original F101, Ono-san recalls that its front track was unusually narrow at 1,360mm which lead to a very unresponsive steering. So they took suspension arms which were 40mm longer than the original one on each side to cure that problem. On the other hand, the rear track was unusualy wide at 1,700mm and this was narrowed down to a more normal width for the F101C (1975 car).

Ono-san also said in the interview that he was already thinking how the next F102 should be in 1974. He said, "You can say that the refined version of my F102 design is became the Kojima KE007".

[jadb1]

Can friends put again these photos of the maki since I cannot observe them? Thank you Alejandro

[KDW]

A Maki F1 car was for sale for sveral years at the Chesterfield premises of motor racings wheeler dealer Richard Parkin.
He found it very difficult to sell and the prices was low accordingly !

KDW

[Twin Window]

This is the only Maki photo I ever took!



:

[MCS]

Twinny

You captured Ganley's look of pensive uncertainty very well...

Mark

[Kojima_KE007]

Whoever is interested in the first Maki (F101A), will be interested in our next project.
We will be restoring Maki F101A-001 in the original configuration. Formula One Japan