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Experiments: weird, bizarre, useless, etc...


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#1 aerogi

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 20:59

Hello all!

I am new here on these forums! So hello everybody! As a first post, here are some weird pictures and strange stuff regarding open wheelers! Some of you may have seen these before, as I have posted these in some other forums. If interested, I have more of these on my website : http://www.aerogi.be

Brabham F2 1968
I came accross following picture in an old French magazine from dec 1968.
It is Jochen Rindt driving a "plane like" Brabham F2 at the GP in Albi in the third
and final race in the "Trophées de France".


Mc Laren 1978
Who thought that Arrows invented the additional front wing a few years ago? Mc Laren did it allready back in 1978,
during practice session of the GP of Spain, but was not used in the race. (Source Autocourse 1978-79)

Jean Pierre Jabouille 1976
A picture of JP Jabouille's F2 car at Vallelunga (3rd round of the 1976 F2 championship). Note the rear wing.

Ferrari early 1977
Who thougth Mc Laren invented the mid wing back in 1995?
As seen in this "spy" picture from early 1977, Ferrari was allready testing such device.


Ferrari 312T
During practice for the French Grand Prix at Paul Ricard, Ferrari tested some kind of prototype.
The front wing has 'rocket type' devices and some other additional changes. This car never raced.

More to come soon, so keep checking this thread frequently!

Enjoy!

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#2 FrankB

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 21:14

deja vu :confused:

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=66354

#3 aerogi

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 21:24

That's strange! Apparently someone posted some pictures from my website without telling the source or the link??? Bizarre while it is asked for more details in that thread, while all of the details can be found at my website??? :confused:

Those are all kinds of pictures that I have found and scanned in from old books and magazines.

#4 bigears

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 21:29

This is very bizarre!

I think you was the same person as Jhope!

I assure that the photos belongs to aerogi as I have seen them at the fameflame forums about a month or two ago.

#5 Paul Taylor

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 21:31

Hello aerogi :) I'm PTRACER, elsewhere, unfortunately :p

I noticed those links posted before...I didn't think it was you, but yes, someone has obviously been hotlinking them!

#6 Wolf

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 21:57

How about this one, Aerogi? I think it tried to qualify for Indy in '82...

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As for odd looking cars, my favourite is (on account of it being beautiful) BT45 in white livery- courtesy of Rob Ryder who posted it when I asked for pics:

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#7 Paul Taylor

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 22:03

:eek: My word! That's the most unsual car I've ever seen :lol:

#8 dretceterini

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 22:59

I generally like "ugly" cars, but the Indy car is beyond hideous :eek:

#9 Marcel Visbeen

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 23:14

Gee, which brave soul did dare to race the thing ?

#10 Jim Thurman

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 01:10

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen
Gee, which brave soul did dare to race the thing ?


Ken Hamilton, Davey's father.

According to Robin Miller, it handled as scary as it looked.

#11 aerogi

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 06:04

Originally posted by Wolf
How about this one, Aerogi? I think it tried to qualify for Indy in '82...

Posted Image

Wooooow that's a cool pic! Ugly but cool! Never saw that one before! Thanks a lot!

@PTRacer and Bigears: I don't have a problem when someone links to my pictures, but I would appreciate it if the "source" would be mentioned. ;) I went through a lot of work looking for all this stuff and scanning them (btw recently my I had to buy a new one as my other scanner refused to continue: probably because it had seen enough of "ugly" cars :lol: )

But no hard feeling from my side!

Anyway here's a few more!


Chris Amon
A picture of Chris Amon testing his own car "Amon AF-101" in early 1974.

Brambilla 1975
This is Brambilla in the Grand Prix of Great Britain, with his March. Note the weird rear wing...

[b]Some special features on the Ferrari 312T2

Here's 2 pictures with some strange devices on the Ferrari 312T2. However I don't think these have been used in races.

Enjoy!

#12 Wolf

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 13:54

OK, here are few more oddities.

Brabham with oil cooler in nose (I think I nicked this one from 8W) :

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Cosworth stillborn F1 project:

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Lotus bi-plane (posted by one of TNF members) :

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Formula Vee with downforce creating body (ditto here) :

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Protos F2 with bubble for driver (slipstremer cockpit) :

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A weird contraption, posted on TNF, of which I know nothing:

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#13 Jonas

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 13:59

Oh yes!! I think I recognise the car carrying No 15 that has a huge stabilizing (well..) wing at the back. If it is the car I think of (which certainly looked simliar and there just can't be too many looking like that..) it was built and raced in Sweden in the early 30's. At the moment I can't say anything more so I have to get back on that..

#14 Option1

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 15:50

There's been a similar thread before: http://forums.atlasf...y=&pagenumber=2 It certainly included the Indy car, but don't think it included some of the others here. [EDIT] As with so many things on the net, as time has passed many of the links in that thread seemed to have passed into oblivion. Shame really.

Fun thread this.

Neil

#15 aerogi

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 16:07

Originally posted by Option1
There's been a similar thread before: http://forums.atlasf...y=&pagenumber=2 It certainly included the Indy car, but don't think it included some of the others here. [EDIT] As with so many things on the net, as time has passed many of the links in that thread seemed to have passed into oblivion. Shame really.

Fun thread this.

Neil


Well, let's make this a new thread then with weird (racing) stuff!
Here's a few more more or less weird things regarding open wheelers:

Neve - Kauhsen 1978
At the end of 1978, Belgian Patrick Neve had good hope of having a great 1979 season with a new team 'Kauhsen'.
Many articles where written in the Belgian Press, and everything seemed okay. But the whole project was a fiasco!
The team eventually made its debut in 1979, but not with Neve, who only lost a lot of money in this project.
The car looked weird, strange and a little futuristic, but still ugly in my humble opinion :)

March Sixwheeler 1977
Besides Tyrrell, also March was testing a car with six wheels. (Later also Williams tested something similar, and
even Ferrari had a 'sixwheeler' in mid 70's ...). Unfortunately it was never raced.
The first picture is from january 1977. The second I have no idea.

Boomerang Tyrrell 1983
here's a few pictures of the "Boomerang" Tyrrell 012, as it was first tested during the practice sessions for the Austrian Grand Prix in 1983. I don't think the car ever took part in a Grand Prix with this strange wing.
I think that is a pity, because I loooooooooooove it! Looks very cool and aggressive to me!

Lotus JPS9
And here's a few more from the "bi-plane" Lotus! This is the presentation of the new Lotus JPS 9 in early 1974. Second picture shows Jacky Ickx testing the car.
Note the double rear wing. And 2nd weird thing, is the fact it has 4 pedals! Apparently there where 2 brake pedals! See third picture!

More to come soon!

Enjoy!

#16 D-Type

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 16:21

Could the 4th pedal in the Lotus be for adjusting the wing? Or does this one date from after movable wings were banned?

Does anybody have photos of UK Clubman's Formula or Monoposto cars? Some of these were fairly 'creative'

#17 conjohn

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 16:44

Originally posted by D-Type
Could the 4th pedal in the Lotus be for adjusting the wing?

The pedals, from left to right, are the clutch (only to be used at the start, there was an button on the gear lever to be used after that), brake - left foot, brake - right foot and the throttle.

#18 Leif Snellman

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 16:52

Originally posted by Jonas
Oh yes!! I think I recognise the car carrying No 15 that has a huge stabilizing (well..) wing at the back. If it is the car I think of (which certainly looked simliar and there just can't be too many looking like that..) it was built and raced in Sweden in the early 30's. At the moment I can't say anything more so I have to get back on that..

In fact Einar Alm, Finland, Ford Spl., Helsinki, 17 Mar 1933

#19 RDV

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 17:37

Posted by Leif Snellman
In fact Einar Alm, Finland, Ford Spl., Helsinki, 17 Mar 1933



NO!!!! Franklin!!!!!!........ :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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#20 Paul Taylor

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 18:02

The Indy car is quite nice looking, in my opinion! :p

#21 Wolf

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 18:43

Aerogi- re. six-wheelers, I think there were 4 related to GP racing- Tyrell P34 (two small frot wheels), March 2-4-0, Williams based on FW08 (same configuration as 2-4-0) and Ferrari with 4 wheels in the back, but abreast (unfortunately, I don't have the pic handy, but will post it)...

Interestingly enough, looking for that pic on TNF, I came to quite interesting link ( http://www.f1nutter....ech/6wheels.php ), which may have techincally inaccurate (I don't think Indy is GP in strictest sense) but valid claim of 'Pat Clancy Spl.' Indy car as first six wheeler to have contested World Championship race. Not only that, but also a story of Ferrari 8-wheeler mock-up car (anyone have photo of that one?)...

#22 dolomite

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 19:26

Originally posted by Wolf
Aerogi- re. six-wheelers, I think there were 4 related to GP racing- Tyrell P34 (two small frot wheels), March 2-4-0, Williams based on FW08 (same configuration as 2-4-0) and Ferrari with 4 wheels in the back, but abreast (unfortunately, I don't have the pic handy, but will post it)...

Interestingly enough, looking for that pic on TNF, I came to quite interesting link ( http://www.f1nutter....ech/6wheels.php ), which may have techincally inaccurate (I don't think Indy is GP in strictest sense) but valid claim of 'Pat Clancy Spl.' Indy car as first six wheeler to have contested World Championship race. Not only that, but also a story of Ferrari 8-wheeler mock-up car (anyone have photo of that one?)...


A lot of the stuff on that page is wrong. Discussed previously in this thread:

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=65436

Also there are several other existing threads on TNF about six wheelers which you can find if you do a search.

#23 aerogi

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 19:34

@Wolf and Dolomite: Thanks for the info and links!

Here's another "sixwheeler": :rotfl:

Grossglockner 1939: "Boulevard des Alpes": This is an old picture of a strange sixwheeler type Mercedes Benz, driven by Hermann Lang.



#24 dosco

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 19:43

Originally posted by aerogi

Note the double rear wing. And 2nd weird thing, is the fact it has 4 pedals! Apparently there where 2 brake pedals! See third picture!

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Fiddle brakes!

I thought McLaren were the first.....but as with many things, if it's out there, it's probably already been thought of!

#25 Wolf

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 20:22

Dosco- I think those in picture were the same peda (V shaped) in order to allow for left and right foot braking... IIRC, Hans posted a four pedal layout from pre-war Mercedes.

Aerogi- Auto-Union for hillclimbs also had twin rear wheels (this is what Ferrari tried in '70-ies)...

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And to show that not only cars got weird aerodynamic improvements( thanks to Rob Ryder) :

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#26 aerogi

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 21:07

Here's another picture I took at the historic Grand Prix race at Zolder from 2001:

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Unfortunately I don't really know what car this exactly is, I forgot to write it down when I took that picture.

#27 lanciaman

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 22:09

The picture of Hill with the rainshield is interesting. This device was supposed to spin and throw off the raindrops and reportedly worked pretty well, though I don't suppose anyone really wanted to use one because they looked pretty silly. I've not seen photos of it in use before. Thanks for posting.

#28 MCH

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 22:16

I believe a similar device is used by drivers in Karting these days.

#29 mp4

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 22:22

Originally posted by lanciaman
The picture of Hill with the rainshield is interesting. This device was supposed to spin and throw off the raindrops and reportedly worked pretty well, though I don't suppose anyone really wanted to use one because they looked pretty silly. I've not seen photos of it in use before. Thanks for posting.



Eddie Cheever tried the same thing when he raced for Alfa in '84 or '85. There was a picture of it in Road and Track when Rob Walker used to write the race reports...

Cheers! :wave:

#30 uechtel

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 22:28

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looks like a very familiar thing in hillclimbs (look also at the car in the back). But I wouldn´t regard that as "real" six-wheeler.


Also the Protos bubble had its predecessor:

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(Yes, this is a Formula 2 race!)

And I think also Brabham tried out a similar thing in Formula 1 (perhaps Monza 1969?), but only during a practise session, after which he put the idea aside again. Sorry, did not find a picture of that.


And this one is perhaps the only fully-closed formula car ever?

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#31 Racer.Demon

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 22:57

Originally posted by aerogi
Here's another picture I took at the historic Grand Prix race at Zolder from 2001:

Posted Image

Unfortunately I don't really know what car this exactly is, I forgot to write it down when I took that picture.


Looks like the Alta hillclimber.

Here's a closer look at the cockpit (Revival '01).

Here you see it in the back (Revival '03).

The engine (Revival '03).

Seen from the front (Revival '03).

On track (Revival '03).

By the way, as Wolf says, there is nothing "weird" about double rears on a hillclimber...

But apart from that - a great collection of oddities! :clap:

#32 VAR1016

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 23:03

I recall that Mickey Thompson produced a horrid and extremely dangerous-looking Indianapolis car.

As for twin rear wheels, well Raymond mays was using those at Shelsley in the 1920s.

PdeRL

#33 Paul Taylor

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 23:56

Originally posted by MCH
I believe a similar device is used by drivers in Karting these days.


It's called a whirly visor, I believe! :)

#34 dolomite

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 00:29

Personally I think this is a more elegant device ;)

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#35 2F-001

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 06:30

re. the JPS "Lotus 76" :
I think it's stretching the point to say "four pedals" in a sense... I believe the set-up is is merely to provide the driver with the alternative of left-foot braking - the two foot-pads are mounted on the same pedal mechanism... rather than being independent fiddle brakes (or even for wing adjustment, long-since outlawed).

Graham's rotating rain-visor:
I came across this pic some while back and showed it to friends with some amusement. I was told, in short order, that this item (the "turbo visor") is still made and readily available from racewear suppliers (eg: Demon Tweeks in the UK, cat. page 55, 27UKP!!). Often used by karters, it seems. :stoned: (apologies, MCH - I've just seen your posting...)

re. picture credits and hot linking:
I enjoyed the stuff on your web site a lot, aerogi, (nice models too). But you comment that, with regard to people not referencing the sources, that you spent time finding pics and scanning them from magazines etc... that doesn't mean you automatically own the images ;) I'm not meaning to have a go at you - more to raise the question of the protocol about this stuff - we all pass stuff around among friends, but we need to be careful. Have you referenced the sources too? Aside from pacifying any image owners, some might like to know the kinds of places to seek out more of the same!

#36 David Lawson

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 07:20

Not to forget the March 711 with it's coffee table front wing which I always thought was quite elegant.

I took this picture of Frank Williams entry in the British Grand Prix at Silverstone in 1971

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David

#37 Nanni Dietrich

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 09:47

I remember Oscar Kovelesky who ran in the Can-Am 1972 (or 1973?) with a strange little wing on top of his helmet... :lol:

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Perhaps the most unusual car ever to compete at Indy, the Hurst Floor Shift Spl. featuring an outboard driver capsule. The thing was created by Smockey Yunick, and Duane Carter Sr. tried to qualify at Indy 500 1964 but he didn't: it seems a funny sidecar...

#38 Teapot

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 10:29

Look this thread for other side-engined oddities.

#39 Nanni Dietrich

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 10:48

And what about this Antares-Offy of Roger McCluskey at Indy 500 1972, with this "vertical nose"? :cool:
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#40 aerogi

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:20

Originally posted by 2F-001

re. picture credits and hot linking:
I enjoyed the stuff on your web site a lot, aerogi, (nice models too). But you comment that, with regard to people not referencing the sources, that you spent time finding pics and scanning them from magazines etc... that doesn't mean you automatically own the images ;) I'm not meaning to have a go at you - more to raise the question of the protocol about this stuff - we all pass stuff around among friends, but we need to be careful. Have you referenced the sources too? Aside from pacifying any image owners, some might like to know the kinds of places to seek out more of the same! [/B]


Hello!

I know that I don't "own" the pictures, and I hope I will never get in trouble because I have scanned images and put them on my website. But I have tried as much as possible to mention my source. Like in the "reference" pictures section on my website: for each picture; I have mentioned from which book/magazine I have found it. And from the bizarre section I have tried to do the same. But some I don't have information as it are just parts of magazines, or only pages I got from somewhere. But I have mentioned as much as possible the books and magazines from where I got that. But to say from where? I got them from 2nd hand bookshops, flea markets, occasionally Ebay...
And as I mentioned before, I don't have problem when there is "hotlinking", but I found if very strange that pictures are "hotlinked", asking for details, while all of the details can be found on the pages from where the pictures are linked too??? But it is not the end of the world!

#41 aerogi

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:24

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
And what about this Antares-Offy of Roger McCluskey at Indy 500 1972, with this "vertical nose"? :cool:
Posted Image


Thanks for this color pic"! A very nice one! Now at least I know how it looked like in color!

Here's another one:



And this is probably a repost of some kind, but still it amazes me the resemblance with the Williams: Rutherford in a Brabham from the Indy grid of 1972:

Enjoy!

#42 aerogi

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:27

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


Looks like the Alta hillclimber.

Here's a closer look at the cockpit (Revival '01).

Here you see it in the back (Revival '03).

The engine (Revival '03).

Seen from the front (Revival '03).

On track (Revival '03).

By the way, as Wolf says, there is nothing "weird" about double rears on a hillclimber...

But apart from that - a great collection of oddities! :clap:


Thanks for clearing this out! Now I finally know! :up:

#43 petefenelon

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:38

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
And what about this Antares-Offy of Roger McCluskey at Indy 500 1972, with this "vertical nose"? :cool:
Posted Image


Good God! It looks like a March 792 mating with the sort of rowing boat you find on the little lakes in public parks! Aaaaaaargh!

#44 Jonas

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 15:55

Originally posted by Wolf
And to show that not only cars got weird aerodynamic improvements( thanks to Rob Ryder) :

Posted Image

Haha! I've actually got one of these!! Here in Sweden it was sold ages ago as an effective "goggle" in rainy weather since the rotating disc throws the water away. I've actually never tried it, but it would be interesting to do so to see if there are any gyro effects. All I know is that you might NOT want a bearing seizure in the damned thing going down a straight at 150 mph and the disc has picked up a respectable speed... :rotfl:

#45 2F-001

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 08:24

aerogi - my apologies if I offended; I was meaning to raise the subject of credits rather more generally than perhaps I impled. And maybe I didn't study your site as thoroughly as I might, either! It must be frustrating than folk look at or link the pictures but then by-pass all the info ;)

(Is there some way in which people link pictures found via a google-picture search, but don't actually visit the web page itself? Might that explain how it happens?)

#46 aerogi

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 11:17

Originally posted by 2F-001
aerogi - my apologies if I offended; I was meaning to raise the subject of credits rather more generally than perhaps I impled. And maybe I didn't study your site as thoroughly as I might, either! It must be frustrating than folk look at or link the pictures but then by-pass all the info ;)

(Is there some way in which people link pictures found via a google-picture search, but don't actually visit the web page itself? Might that explain how it happens?)


You didn't offended me at all! No worries! I'm glad you enjoyed my website! Anyway what you are suggesting might be interesting! I haven't thought about that "google" thing. So that might be an explanation of what happened.

And here's a few more of these pictures: Not that weird, but still some interesting "try-outs" I guess ;)

Berta - 1975
In the March 75 issue of L'automobile, there where 2 pictures of a new car called "Berta" that appeared in the practice sessions
of the Grand Prix F1 of Argentina, but apparently never raced. Driver was a certain Garcia Veiga.

Tyrrell - 1975
Here's the Tyrrell team trying something out at Paul Ricard during practice sessions for hte new season in early 1975.

Arrows A2
In 1979 Arrows made the A2, a strange looking wing car, and the engineers thought they build the ultimate wing car.
Unfortunately it was not. It was very difficult to drive.
Here's a picture of a rear wing Jochen Mass tested during qualifying for the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glenn in 1979.
Unfortunately he did not manage to qualify ...

And these are some pictures of the first appearances of the A2. Note the ultra low rear wing, but this was soon
replaced by a wing that was a little 'higher' (see third picture). This is a car you probably hate or love, well, I love it!

Mc Laren M23 (1974)
During the practice sessions for the Belgian Grand prix of 1974, Fittipaldi tested a new rear wing configuration, but this was never seen in the race

Tyrrell with Lotus type nose (1973)
In 1973, the Tyrrell team tested during some practice sessions, a 'Lotus type front wing'.
First picture shows Cevert during practice in Sweden, second picture is Stewart, also in practice, this time for the Dutch GP. It was never used in the races.

Much greater and better pictures of this car can be found in this thread though: http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=66354

Enjoy! And thanks to all the other contributors in this thread!

#47 lanciaman

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 11:39

Are most of these posted car pics significantly uglier than current F1 cars? Not in my opinion, though they may have been more unsightly than their contemporaries.

Someday we may be looking back at all the odd angles and aero bits and ducts and curvy stickons that are today's F1 machines (recalling that an elephant is a horse designed by committee), created by windtunnel geeks, and say "What a gommy-looking clunker that Ferrari was, what were thinking?" I do not think we will be paying tribute to their beauty, in any event.

#48 petefenelon

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 11:43

Originally posted by lanciaman
Are most of these posted car pics significantly uglier than current F1 cars? Not in my opinion, though they may have been more unsightly than their contemporaries.

Someday we may be looking back at all the odd angles and aero bits and ducts and curvy stickons that are today's F1 machines (recalling that an elephant is a horse designed by committee), created by windtunnel geeks, and say "What a gommy-looking clunker that Ferrari was, what were thinking?" I do not think we will be paying tribute to their beauty, in any event.


Contemporary F1 cars are too high, too narrow and too under-tyred (not to mention too bl**dy similar to look good to me. The last really good-looking F1s were the 1993 crop, I reckon.

#49 Racer.Demon

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 12:03

Don't forget the cockpit side protection! It's much more integrated into the design now compared to the 1996 cars (now those were really ugly!) but I can't see that particular innovation win any prizes for aesthetics any time soon.

But then we've been getting used to the new narrow look for almost a decade now. Whenever I see a picture of an early-nineties GP car now I can't help but think that it almost looks too wide...

#50 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
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Posted 04 March 2004 - 12:13

Originally posted by lanciaman
Are most of these posted car pics significantly uglier than current F1 cars? Not in my opinion, though they may have been more unsightly than their contemporaries.

Someday we may be looking back at all the odd angles and aero bits and ducts and curvy stickons that are today's F1 machines (recalling that an elephant is a horse designed by committee), created by windtunnel geeks, and say "What a gommy-looking clunker that Ferrari was, what were thinking?" I do not think we will be paying tribute to their beauty, in any event.



Erm, I disagree here. It won't be long before there is enough computing power to let rip with fluid dynamic simulations and genetic evolution. The designer will set the parameters allowed by the FIA (dimensions etc), and then let the simulation evolve a design which has the utmost efficiency. Given that it will have been designed by machine rather than a human, it will be amazingly outlandish and probably very ugly. We will then all look back at the current crop of cars and consider them good looking by comparison.