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Europe racing America (and vice versa)


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#1 aerogi

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 11:14

here's a nice series of pictures regarding a match between Europe and America (US). This 'match' was raced on a circuit of about 5 kilometres long at Ontario-Questor in 1971. Originally, this 'match' was open for 20 F1 cars and 10 FA cars. But because of some 'forfaits', There where only 17 European cars that entered the competition. Therefore there where eventuall 13 FA's that entered this 'match'.

Qualifying was over 3 days (American style), and Stewart was fastest in qualification. First FA placed car was Donohue in a Lola T192-Chevy.

The races: the race was devided into two seperate races, simply because otherwise the FA-cars would have to make pitstops to refuel... The start of the first race saw Belgian Ickx leading the race after one lap. But in the fifth lap, Stewart took the lead. After 10 laps, Stewart was leading by a solid 3" on Ickx, followed by Amon, Donohue and Andretti. In the mean time, Andretti had moved to third place by passing Donohue, but Ickx had to make a pitstop to change a tyre, so Andretti was second. It seemed Stewart would have an easy win, but in the last laps, it seemed he had some kind of small problem, and Andretti moved up to first place in the 2nd last lap of this first race! This first race showed the superiority for the F1-cars compared to the FA-cars.

The second race saw again Stewart taking the lead over Andretti this time, and in the 11th lap, Andretti passed Stewart, and five laps later, he was allready 5 seconds in the lead! But there was a great battle for second place between Stewart and Amon until the end of the race. Ickx and Siffert where battling for fourth place, but they touched wheels, and both spon, with Ickx' race was practically over. Siffert could continue. So eventually this second race was won by Andretti, with Stewart 2nd, Amond 3rd, Rodriguez 4th etc.

So this match was dominated by Europe... but won by an American ;)

And while you guys enjoy these pics, let's have a discussion start 'what if' we would race such an event again. I know there are many, many differences between F1 and Champcars, but maybe all these differences can make it very exciting? Champcars have slicks, turbocharged, but then the F1 cars have a clear advantage when breaking, etc etc. Any ideas who would win? Or suggestions?

I think somewhere after both championship (somewhere in november), with one or two races in Europe, and one or two races in the US? Yeah, dream on... ;) one thing is for sure, it would be a very interesting event, and many people would be interested I think...

I'm not sure if this was done each year, or if this was a "one-shot"...

Enjoy!

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 13:49

Aerogi: the race you're referring to was the Questor GP, a one-off event run at Ontario Motor Speedway. Some of the more sensationalist reporting does make it look like it was USA v Europe, but in reality it was just a way of getting F1 cars over to the West Coast of the USA for the first time since 1960 - we've actually had no fewer than four previous threads about it, all of which you can find by clicking here :)

Thanks for the pictures - nice to see NGH in the Lobster Claw! Not to mention Gus Hutchison, eh Don? :p

#3 aerogi

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 16:38

Didn't know the race was called "Questor" Grand Prix, thought it was part of the track. And yes the article is pretty "sensational" written, it is like it was really Europe against America... Sorry about the other threads, I did some quick search, but couldn't find it immediately... So I wouldn't have a problem if one of the moderaters would move this under one of those.

#4 Frank S

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 21:13

Here's a post from a "This day . . . " thread about the Questor
I have a qualifying list and a program with "One lap 'round the OMS road course with Bob Bondurant" feature which I will scan and post at first opportunity.

#5 Don Capps

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 21:38

Originally posted by aerogi
Posted Image
Winner American Andretti for Europe in a Ferrari 312B


Are these your pictures? I ask since you seem to slap "aerogi.be" over everything you post and that would seem to connote some level of ownership or control. Just curious.


And yes, Richard, I still find crow feathers on my work desk.... :lol:

#6 marat

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Posted 24 March 2004 - 22:02

Originally posted by Don Capps
Are these your pictures? I ask since you seem to slap "aerogi.be" over everything you post and that would seem to connote some level of ownership or control. Just curious.



Seems that all this is taken out of french magazine "L'Automobile".

#7 Frank S

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:38

URL to the Questor GP program and course diagrams



Frank S

#8 lanciaman

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 01:56

What a grid!
I remember it as being live on TV....
The operators of Ontario realized the place was in deep financial straits and I think this race was an attempt to salvage things. Some financial analysts even before Ontario was built predicted-- based on the business model- that the circuit would never turn a profit even if they filled the house comparable to the 500 for every race.

#9 dretceterini

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 04:30

The Matra that was there was the best sounding car I ever heard..

#10 aerogi

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 11:32

Originally posted by Don Capps


Are these your pictures? I ask since you seem to slap "aerogi.be" over everything you post and that would seem to connote some level of ownership or control. Just curious.


And yes, Richard, I still find crow feathers on my work desk.... :lol:


Hello Don,

Those pictures are not mine (unfortunately not...).
The reason I "tag" them is not to give the impression that these pictures are mine. Since last november I have been building a website with reference pictures for F1-modellers, crash pictures, weird stuff and others. See http://users.pandora.be/aerogi

Initially I didn't tag the pictures I have scanned from books and magazines. But soon I found some of these pictures from my website on other sites, without any reference to my website, or withouth the details about the source (article, book, etc). Therefore I decided to tag them, so that people who come accross these pictures on other places, can have a look at my site if they are interested in more details. When I joined this (great) forum, I discovered some of these pictures where being posted here, without any reference to my website or information.

When I post these scanned pictures on my site and on forums, I usually give the source from what book/magazine/article/author/etc I got these pictures. In this case I simply forgot to post that info, but it is on my site however. FYI: these pictures are from an article from a French Magazine "L'automobile" from May 1971.

I don't have the intention to harm anyone

Some of these pics I find really interesting to share with others, some of these pics are pretty rare, and I find it somewhat a "pity" that others cannot enjoy these too, some of these are from for example old Belgian magazines (that no longer exists) from more than 30 years old, so I guess these pics will never appear again in books/articles/internet...

However if for some reason this is a problem with the rules of this forum or something else, I will remove the links of the pictures I've posted. No hard feelings.

So conclusion I do not own these pictures and don't have the intention to do so, they are not mine. Maybe I should put a disclaimer of this kind on my website? It's just, it's nice to have at least a few "hits" on my website each day...

#11 vintagerpm

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 01:50

Originally posted by aerogi

Initially I didn't tag the pictures I have scanned from books and magazines. But soon I found some of these pictures from my website on other sites, without any reference to my website, or withouth the details about the source (article, book, etc).


I find it funny that you are worried about people stealing photos you've already stolen.

#12 aerogi

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 06:09

Originally posted by vintagerpm


I find it funny that you are worried about people stealing photos you've already stolen.


I guess you didn't understand my point in my previous thread... If people "steal" my pictures as you said, but on their website or forum they do this without any details from which book/magazine/article/author/source, then because of the tags, people know where the pictures have been posted originally, where it is specified (for most cases) where I actually found this pictures! If I don't tag them, they will probably never find out...

#13 rdrcr

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 06:23

Originally posted by aerogi
"...When I post these scanned pictures on my site and on forums, I usually give the source from what book/magazine/article/author/etc I got these pictures. In this case I simply forgot to post that info, but it is on my site however. FYI: these pictures are from an article from a French Magazine "L'automobile" from May 1971..."


I've just visited your site and the references that you've claimed to have made for the "captured" photos on there are checkered at best. Specifically, the aforementioned credits to the Questor GP go unrecognized, unless I've missed it on there.

:

#14 aerogi

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 07:53

Ooops, you are right, that is not very smart of me… :confused: I'll correct this later this evening…
There are a few others that have not this information yet, I'll correct that too this weekend, but for some I simply don't have the details. Sometimes friends give me articles from magazines, but not the magazines itself…

#15 vintagerpm

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Posted 27 March 2004 - 14:31

Originally posted by aerogi


I guess you didn't understand my point in my previous thread... If people "steal" my pictures as you said, but on their website or forum they do this without any details from which book/magazine/article/author/source, then because of the tags, people know where the pictures have been posted originally, where it is specified (for most cases) where I actually found this pictures! If I don't tag them, they will probably never find out...


But the fact of the matter is, you have broken the law by scanning and uploading photos without the permission of the copyright holders.

#16 panzani

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Posted 27 March 2004 - 15:29

Originally posted by aerogi
The reason I "tag" them is not to give the impression that these pictures are mine.

Could you please elaborate that? :confused:
Why don't you 'tag' them the with the name of the magazine you scanned them from and a copyright symbol instead?

#17 aerogi

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 10:12

OK, I might have broken the law, but then again, I guess you can simply shut down the whole internet scene then...

I probably could also be sued because of posting pictures with sigarette brands on them, maybe Mc Laren is a registered trademark too and I should ask permission from them etc etc

But as there are allready enough problems in this world like starvation, terrorism, war, exploiting, pollution, the extinction of thousands of animals, the dissappearing rain forrest etc, I have decided to remove all the links of the pictures I've posted, so we can stop this discussion!

So long!

:(

#18 Frank S

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 20:04

Looks like a 5.3 on the Flounce-Meter.

#19 VAR1016

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 20:13

Originally posted by Frank S
Looks like a 5.3 on the Flounce-Meter.


You are probably correct, but my impression was naivete rather than malificence (or malevolence if you prefer)...

PderL

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#20 panzani

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Posted 28 March 2004 - 22:16

Originally posted by VAR1016
You are probably correct, but my impression was naivete rather than malificence (or malevolence if you prefer)...
PderL

I think you are right PderL, and I hope my last post was not the reason that triggered that reaction, I was really just trying to point some different ways out...

aerogi started some interesting threads, I hope he stay with us.

#21 Rob29

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 08:02

To return to the original subject matter,I think the only events relevant here are the Monza oval races of 1957-58?

#22 David McKinney

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 08:32

The first IROC races were pretty close to the definition, too