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#1 man

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 13:38

Does anyone know when Mattel/Hotwheels exclusive rights with Ferrari ends? I've just seen the Minichamps release schedule and they have some very interestingt hings in the pipeline. Pitty they are not allowed to expand on the 1979 and 1982 Ferrari's.

Minichamps will be producing the 1979 Arrows A2, the lowline Brabham BT55 of 1986, the Williams Honda FW11 of 1986 as well as the colourful 1988 Benetton Ford.

It would be excellent if Minichamps could cover the Ligier range between 1976-1986 as they had some very distinctive looking cars.

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#2 biercemountain

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 13:46

I'm not exactly sure when it will end but it won't be soon enough.

Personally, I think Ferrari made huge mistake when it gave Mattel/Hotwheels exclusive rights.

Here in the U.S. that basically meant that diecast Ferrari's vanished from the marketplace. The one's that did come out were complete crap.

I can't even find a decent 1/18 scale diecast of the Enzo.

1/18 Hotwheels SUCK!!!!!!!!!

#3 Peter Morley

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 15:09

Mattel's 'exclusive' rights to Ferrari models seems to be renewed annually (e.g. it was renewed this year).

But it can't apply to models of older cars - shortly after making their 'brilliant' deal someone pointed out that design protection only lasts a limited amount of time.
e.g. in the UK the maximum period of design protection is 25 years, so anyone can make a model of a Ferrari (or anything else) that is over 25 years old (the only difficulty lies with the logo which can be protected for a longer period) - and this assumes they thought to extend their protection that far.

Other country's protection lasts even less time, and what counts is the country the model is made for, not where it is made or sold, so if someone from a suitable country commissioned the model there is nothing they can do to stop it being made.

They might be able to protect the more recent models (even that is questionable), so you could be stuck with whatever rubbish they decide to make for some time.

Of course if no one bought any of these models Mattell would get out of the deal a.s.a.p. (after all it reputedly cost them $50M the 1st year), or at least try to produce decent models.

#4 T54

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 17:38

But it can't apply to models of older cars - shortly after making their 'brilliant' deal someone pointed out that design protection only lasts a limited amount of time.



Our company deals in 1/24 and 1/32 scale model racing cars (slot cars). We build then in the USA or import them from other countries. About 2 years ago we sent a letter to Mattel asking for a paid license to make a 1961 TR61 LM as a 1/32 scale slot car. We offered them the standard 8% royalty deal on wholesales. We received back a letter from their legal department saying that if we attmpted to do such a thing, they would make our lives miserable.

Enough said, indeed there are international laws to protect us from this illegal racket, but it would cost us too much to fight a giant like Mattel. So we are taking our chances "the American Way", meaning that the corporation has no assets and only liabilities on the paper, the ONLY way to fight those MF's, because if they decide to go after you, you fold and they will only be left with legal bills and you set a different company. It sucks, but this is unfortunately what the lawyer-run society of today has forced so many honest businesses to do.

No use to tell you that we do not advertise Mattel as a savior of the model world.
Regards,

T54

#5 Martin Roessler

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 20:43

@ man

will the arrows be 1:18 ???
cheers marty

#6 D-Type

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 21:16

I totally agree with what people have said about Mattel. Since they got the monopoly, the standard of the product has dropped progressively.

I'm surprised that Mattel haven't fallen foul of the US anti-trust laws, which are supposed to prevent monopolies. From what T54 says they are certainly acting in a classic 'monopolist' manner.

I collect 1/43 world champions and am still waiting to find 2003 in the shops. They are obviously creating an artificial shortage as Baricchello is readily available. Before Mattel, Minichamps or Quartzo would always have the new champion out in time for Christmas.

As a general point, is it just my imagination or has there been a drop in the number of 1/43 models in favour of 1/18?

#7 jj2728

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Posted 25 March 2004 - 22:38

many, many, of us who seriously collect die casts are hoping and praying for the day that the MATTEL lock on ferrari diecasts ends and ends soon....MINICHAMPS quality is far and above anything that MATTEL has ever produced....unfortunately they produce for the hungry masses and not those of us who care about a decent quality replica in scale......and that i can understand as they are in it to make money afterall....
my collection is exclusively 1/43 scale and there is absolutely no comparison between the two brands....MINICHAMPS by a landslide....but if i want a ferrari formula one car in a diecast then it is the only game in town....
fortunately, and if one either has the money or the skills, there are many many ferrari kits and built-ups from kits available, but the prices for built up kits are high, well over $100.00 and modelling skills are a requirement when tackling the kits....i've been able to substantiate my collection with the latter as i don't have the bucks for the former....
the arrows will be available only in 1/43 at present....
MINICHAMPS has begun to produce quite a list of past f1 cars so don't be too surprised to see the ligiers sometime down the road....
i've seen the f2003 schumacher version up here in canada and on ebay....
i think that there are just as many 1/43s available as before, but the 1/18 market is very popular in the states and canada....

#8 Peter Morley

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 12:24

Originally posted by D-Type
I totally agree with what people have said about Mattel. Since they got the monopoly, the standard of the product has dropped progressively.

I'm surprised that Mattel haven't fallen foul of the US anti-trust laws, which are supposed to prevent monopolies. From what T54 says they are certainly acting in a classic 'monopolist' manner.


The standard of Mattels product is down to everyone's expectation (possibly as bad as the welding on a real Ferrari!).
When the deal was announced, everyone was surprised why such a supposedly high end company was doing working with such a low end model company - but of course money is all Ferrari is about.

Apparently the reason the deal doesn't fall foul of anti-monopoly laws is because they don't stop you making models of other makes of cars!!!!!!!!
The law is weird isn't it!!

T54 is quite right when he says that even with the law on your side you can't afford to battle it out with these huge corporations.
But I hope that he, and everyone else does so, that will kill off all these exclusive deals and let the customer decide which is the best product.

Funny thing with all the makes like MiniChamps, Paul's Model Art etc, is they are apparently all now made in the same Chinese factory on adjacent production lines, but to different standards!

#9 Pedro 917

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 14:25

Is there someone who knows why there aren't any Yardley-BRM's to find on the market?
I have a John Day P153 and a Western Models P160, both kits and very old.
Is it possible that a sponsor (such as Yardley) doesn't allow the use of their name?

#10 Olivier Favre

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 16:50

Like you "Pedro 917", I'm waiting for a Yardley-BRM for a long time. But I don't think it's a problem of rights with the sponsor, since Minichamps made recently the Yardley-McLaren M23 of Hulme and Revson.
So I continue to hope ...

#11 deangelis86

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 20:19

Elio de Angelis, Brabham BT55. I can't wait till April 19th!!

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#12 dretceterini

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 20:33

The Yardley BRMs weren't particularly successful. Model car makers (especially die-cast companies) tend to concentrate on cars that had success.

The majority of collectors also seem to want "this years cars", and not older vehicles.

It also has to do with what 1/1 scale cars are deemed by the general public to be important...hence the disproportionate number of Ferrari models released.

#13 deangelis86

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 20:47

Originally posted by dretceterini
The Yardley BRMs weren't particularly successful. Model car makers tend to concentrate on cars that had success.


Not true in the case of the BT55. There is hope for the Yardley yet, methinks.

#14 dretceterini

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 21:40

What am I missing? What does the Brabham BT55 have to do with the Yardley BRMs?

#15 deangelis86

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 21:51

I cited the BT55 as a case that tended to disprove your theory that 'Model car makers (especially die-cast companies) tend to concentrate on cars that had success'.

Both the BT55 and Yardley BRM were not successful ventures, yet the BT55 has been issued by Minchamps, going against the trend pointed out by yourself.

Now, am I missing something perhaps? :confused:

#16 jj2728

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 22:19

Originally posted by dretceterini
The Yardley BRMs weren't particularly successful. Model car makers tend to concentrate on cars that had success.


no they do not....if they did then the market would be substantially smaller than it is now....a clear example of this is the fact that every car from last year's f1 grid can be purchased...there are many many cars without much measure of success available today because there is a market demand for them....

#17 dretceterini

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Posted 31 March 2004 - 23:55

I send TEND to concentrate on successful cars.

A perfect example is of the thousands of obscure small displacement French, Italian and German sports-racers cars built, very few have been made into miniatures.

Certainly some of the more obscure cars have been made, but compared to the number of Ferraris and Porsches, they are a drop in the bucket.

#18 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 06:40

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Is there someone who knows why there aren't any Yardley-BRM's to find on the market?
I have a John Day P153 and a Western Models P160, both kits and very old.
Is it possible that a sponsor (such as Yardley) doesn't allow the use of their name?


Pedro,

English model car make SMTS have planned some kits and handbuilts of the P160 in 1/43rd. They havent given me a release date yet.

#19 Exar Kun

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 07:04

If you can afford them, www.exoto.com have the Ferrari 312B, 312T, 312T2, 312T4 & 641/2 all for sale. They are easily the best quality 1/18 scale models I have ever seen. I recently bought a Porsche 917/30 from them that is simply superb. They are also planning on releasing several Ferrari road cars in the future.

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#20 petefenelon

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 14:55

I think the "success" thing is at best semi-relevant in the small-volume model market - I mean, Provence Moulage and Starter, and to some extent Trofeu seem to model anything that's ever turned a wheel in a major sports car race (as I'm discovering to my expense - my other half is building up her collection Stefan Johansson's drives - curse those drivers who kept hopping from car to car ;)

I reckon there's more chance of getting all his sports cars than there is of finding things like the AGS ;)

An amusing aside is looking at what manufacturers like Quartzo seem to have overproduced. At every motorsport event I've seen that has any form of trade stands, there always seem to be piles of the following going cheap!

- Eddie Keizan's "Lucky Strike" Tyrrell
- John Love's "Gunston" March
- Hector Rebaque's brown Lotus
- Alex Soler-Roig's March 711
- Pescarolo's March 701
- recently, piles of March 792s!

#21 theunions

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Posted 01 April 2004 - 22:59

Originally posted by petefenelon
I think the "success" thing is at best semi-relevant in the small-volume model market - I mean, Provence Moulage and Starter, and to some extent Trofeu seem to model anything that's ever turned a wheel in a major sports car race (as I'm discovering to my expense - my other half is building up her collection Stefan Johansson's drives - curse those drivers who kept hopping from car to car ;)


If she comes up with Stefan's 2000 Rolex 24 #36 Reynard 2KQ, let me know...otherwise I'll sooner or later have to do it myself.

#22 jph

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 09:09

Originally posted by Pedro 917:
Is there someone who knows why there aren't any Yardley-BRM's to find on the market?



Scale Racing Cars make a quite reasonable model of Siffert's Austrian GP winner (as well as Beltoise's Marlboro-liveried Monaco winner), available both as a kit and a ready-built.

The SMTS models of the P153 and P160 were pre-announced some time ago - their F1 models are generally very good, so I think they will be worth waiting for.

#23 petefenelon

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:08

Originally posted by theunions


If she comes up with Stefan's 2000 Rolex 24 #36 Reynard 2KQ, let me know...otherwise I'll sooner or later have to do it myself.


There are loads of the Le Mans 2000 car knocking around (a chap on Ebay had 50-odd of them) but no sign of one in Daytona livery/numbers.....

pete

#24 Wolf

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Posted 02 April 2004 - 10:32

I hope you won't mind me making a small digression here, but I would not like to clutter up TNF with model threads... And having a load of collectors already assembled here, it seems logical to ask my question here.

How does one repair die cast models? I've recently bought a nice Cobra for my god-son. As one would expect from a kid his age, playing around with it he broke a few bits here and there. The biggest damage was done to windscreen and bonnet, which is broken off at the hinge. What would be the best way to re-attach the bonnet- gluing or soldering it to the hinge?

Thanks in advance. :)

#25 Aanderson

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 00:11

Originally posted by Wolf
I hope you won't mind me making a small digression here, but I would not like to clutter up TNF with model threads... And having a load of collectors already assembled here, it seems logical to ask my question here.

How does one repair die cast models? I've recently bought a nice Cobra for my god-son. As one would expect from a kid his age, playing around with it he broke a few bits here and there. The biggest damage was done to windscreen and bonnet, which is broken off at the hinge. What would be the best way to re-attach the bonnet- gluing or soldering it to the hinge?

Thanks in advance. :)


Diecast can be soldered, but with some difficulty. The problem will be, however, what to do about the damaged paint from the heat of a soldering iron or torch needed to flow the solder. Epoxies work well on diecast, particularly a brand we have here in the US, JB-Weld, which is a metal-bearing epoxy glue of amazing strength and adhesion on metals (people have actually used it to repair broken cylinder blocks, put the engine back together, and had it run again!). However, I would guess that the gluing surface is quite small.

It might be your best bet to make a new hood hinge from brass rod stock, with a sufficient mounting bracket bent into it where it would meet the under-surface of the hood, then grind away the broken hinge completely, clean the bare metal with some acetone or better yet, a quick wiping with some sodium hydroxide solution, which will take away all finger oils, and remove the faint tarnish that comes from exposing diecast zamak (the metal alloy that almost all mass-produced diecast models and toys are made from). Then, epoxy the new hinge into place where the old one was. After the epoxy has set, reassemble the car, it should be as good as new again!

Art Anderson


#26 man

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 14:20

I see that Minichamps have now released the Williams FW11. A pretty car and a famous one - strange why there has been no diecast production of the FW11 earlier. Still, better 20 years late than never!

I seem to remember reading IXO have a deal with Ferrari, have there been any releases yet? Is this the end of Mattel? Tameo aside, I'm still waiting for the day when a good quality diecast 1/43 or 1/18 scale of a Ferrari F1-87 or F1-87/88C is produced! A beauty!

#27 zakeriath

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 15:49

A while ago F1 magazine produced an article on a French collector who has collected all the F1 champions in 1/43 scale. Does anyone know if these are all commercially available (past or present) anf if so who are the manufacturer.

e.g.

1977 James Hunt Minichamps

#28 Tmeranda

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 16:22

Originally posted by Exar Kun
If you can afford them, www.exoto.com have the Ferrari 312B, 312T, 312T2, 312T4 & 641/2 all for sale. They are easily the best quality 1/18 scale models I have ever seen. I recently bought a Porsche 917/30 from them that is simply superb. They are also planning on releasing several Ferrari road cars in the future.


You are right. Their models are of the highest quality. However, they have been planning to release those Ferrari road cars for a long time. I have them on order, but I am not holding my breath. One good thing about HotWheels is that they did release several models of the Ferrari that had been long overlooked like the Caif. Spyder and the 166MM. Quality wasn't there, but it was still good to see the cars available. Now if only they would make the Calif. Spyder in red instead of that dumb pruple.

#29 D-Type

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 16:46

Originally posted by zakeriath
A while ago F1 magazine produced an article on a French collector who has collected all the F1 champions in 1/43 scale. Does anyone know if these are all commercially available (past or present) anf if so who are the manufacturer.

e.g.

1977 James Hunt Minichamps

I think they all have been produced at one time or another but not all as diecasts as some have only been produced as white metal or resin kits/handbuilts.

I am trying to put together a similar collection (drivers' and manufacturers' champions) without going into the realms of expensive hand-built models and have about ten to go. My collection includes Brumm, Auto Story, Mattell Hot Wheels, Minichamps, Quartzo and Vitesse diecasts and John Day, SMTS, Tameo and Western Models white metal kits and even two Heller plastic kits.

Edit: kit makers corrected

#30 Wolf

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 17:44

Not strictly on topic, but I was handed Maisto catalogue whilst looking for a small Smart roadcar for my God-son (still haven't found it :- but I think the cars he *does not* have are as common as hen's teeth). They don't seem to make open-wheelers, and only few racing cars. I couldn't help but notice that someone there is a Moss fan- all the old racing cars are: Moss' SLR from Mille Miglia and Targa Florio and Porsche Spyder from Buenos Aires race (oddly enough, they don't mention him but numbers are his). Another car that might be of interest is Uhlenhaut's 300SLR Coupe. All of them are 1:18 scale. All we need now is that somebody reports on Maisto's product quality, and this post might be of some use... :)

#31 theunions

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 22:49

Originally posted by theunions
If she comes up with Stefan's 2000 Rolex 24 #36 Reynard 2KQ, let me know...otherwise I'll sooner or later have to do it myself.


And...so I finally did. :)

Finished model

Stefan with finished model at 2005 Rolex 24

#32 BRM MICK

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 23:06

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dretceterini
The Yardley BRMs weren't particularly successful. Model car makers tend to concentrate on cars that had success. [/QUOTE


How can you say a car that won Three Grand Prix's was not successful??????!!!!!!!! let alone it's other podium finishes as well. Perhaps it should have been painted Red there benn dozens of models then!!

Mick :confused:

#33 Macca

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 23:14

I wondered if you'd jump on that, for that very reason!

:p

The trouble is that, whereas the Tyrrell 003, March 701 & 711 and Lotus 72 and 78 can be produced in a variety of colours with the same configuration, there are a myriad of different noses/airboxes/wings on P160s, and P153s, so the possible alternative colours/drivers/races for a diecast modelmaker are more limited.


Paul M


(PS. have you done a P153 from the 1970 SAGP in green/orange? )

#34 man

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 23:59

Would be interested to hear what your collection consists of. Mine is fairly simple.
Bruum Ferrari 312 Giunti - well finished model
Brumm Ferrari 126 C2 Gilles
" " " Didier
" " " Tambay (late season)
" " " Andretti (Late season)
The Brumm version of the 126 C2 is better than the Minichamps and Hothwheels.
Also had Arnoux/Alboreto 126 C4's from Brumm got got rid of them because of the poor quality. However the wheels from the C4 are excellent and bbetter than those on the 126 C2. I have a personally modified version on the C2 with painted engine, wheels (taken from the C4) and other details and it looks tip top!
Onyx Ferrari F187-88C Berger. Usual poor Onyx quality, waiting for the IXO!
La Storia Ferrari F1-89 Nige early season with official Ferrari packaging. Based on the Onyx version, so pretty poor but with extra details such as winshield and mirrors.
Onyx Ferrari F1-90 Nige. Also the Onyx Ferrari 643 (Alesi), F92A (Alesi), F93A Berger, 412T1 (Berger) 412 T2 (Berger), All poor Onyx quality. There my Ferrari F1 collection stops as my interest in them died once Berger and Alesi left and Schumacher and Irvine joined.

Also have Minichamps 1/18 F93A Berger and 1/24 Ferrari F92A Capelli. Had a built Tameo version of of the F1-87 (Berger) but sadly this was destroyed in an accident. Have an unbuilt Tameo version of the F1-86. Ferrari 312 Regazzoni Minichamps 1/18.

Other things of interest.

1977 McLaren Gilles Minichamps
1983 Brabham BMW Piquet, official BMW packaging. Minichamps
1980 Williams Regazzoni - removable bodywork. Minichamps. Good stuff.
1983 Williams Cos Rosberg MInichamps.
1983 Williams Cos Senna Minichamps.
1985 Lotus Ren Senna Minichamps. Don't like the square profile of the tyres of the 1/18 Minichamps.
1989 McLaren Senna Minichamps
1990 McLaren Berger Minichamps
1993 McLaren Senna LE Adelaide with presentation box Minichamps

My main objective is to replace the Onyx Ferrari's with better quality versions. Could still get the T4 Jody/Gilles but they are quite expensive. I want to complete the 1980's Ferrari set at some stage.

Also want to get as many good quality 1980's F1 1/43 scale cars as I can, starting with the BT55, FW11!

#35 A E Anderson

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 05:39

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Is there someone who knows why there aren't any Yardley-BRM's to find on the market?
I have a John Day P153 and a Western Models P160, both kits and very old.
Is it possible that a sponsor (such as Yardley) doesn't allow the use of their name?


Tamiya, in the late 1970's, did produce a 1:12 scale Yardley-Mclaren, but I believe that is the only one, long gone now, pretty much an eBay item.

Art

#36 jj2728

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 13:41

FYI for the Ferrari collectors in 1/43. IXO/LASTORIA are producing 1 version of each year's Grand Prix Ferrari from 1950 onwards. Note, these are not the same has the previous hideous LASTORIA collection. All new tooling and re-packaging should make them a must have for any serious Ferrari model collector.

#37 biercemountain

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 14:15

Originally posted by A E Anderson


Tamiya, in the late 1970's, did produce a 1:12 scale Yardley-Mclaren, but I believe that is the only one, long gone now, pretty much an eBay item.

Art


Fortunately, the Yardley McLaren M23 is not nearly as sought after as the Texaco/Marlboro McLaren M23 so it's not that difficult to find as it was reissued a number of times. Expect to pay between $50-$100 (USD).

The Texaco/Marlboro M23 on the other hand is a bonafide collectors item and will set you back big-time if your lucky enough to find one.

#38 BRM MICK

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 18:59

Originally posted by Macca
I wondered if you'd jump on that, for that very reason!

:p

The trouble is that, whereas the Tyrrell 003, March 701 & 711 and Lotus 72 and 78 can be produced in a variety of colours with the same configuration, there are a myriad of different noses/airboxes/wings on P160s, and P153s, so the possible alternative colours/drivers/races for a diecast modelmaker are more limited.


Paul M


(PS. have you done a P153 from the 1970 SAGP in green/orange? )


Good point!!
I agree the Yardley winners are slightly different in that Gethin's Monza winner had no front wings and a much reduced rear wing. Beltoise Monaco winner however other than the airbox and Marlboro livery is virtually identical to Siffert's Austrian car. I dont think either versions would cause that much of a problem to a model company. Imagine a decent 1/18 P160 !! .
Hopefully Minichamps are going to produce some of my other favourites Alan Mann's P68/ F3L in 1/43 scale also coming is his Ford Escort in 1/43 and 1/18 the large version should be great.
P153 in Green and Orange?? if I could find another kit it would be YES !!
I have two much modified John Day kits, one as Pedro Rodriguez Spa winner and one as Helmut Marko's 1972 car

Regards

Mick :wave:

#39 Pedro 917

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 19:22

This version will do!
Rodriguez, Siffert & Elford drove it.

Posted Image Posted Image

BRM P160 driven by Nick Rini at the Zolder Historic GP.

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#40 A E Anderson

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 04:54

Originally posted by biercemountain
I'm not exactly sure when it will end but it won't be soon enough.

Personally, I think Ferrari made huge mistake when it gave Mattel/Hotwheels exclusive rights.

Here in the U.S. that basically meant that diecast Ferrari's vanished from the marketplace. The one's that did come out were complete crap.

I can't even find a decent 1/18 scale diecast of the Enzo.

1/18 Hotwheels SUCK!!!!!!!!!


Actually, Mattel's agreement with Ferrari isn't merely and exclusive license to Mattel for the production of models and toys of Ferrari cars.

Mattel Inc., through this agreement, is the sole US licensing agent for model kits and toys of Ferrari cars--it's up to anyone wishing to produce or sell miniature Ferrari's in the USA to arrange for a license to do so through Mattel, and I suspect that's not an impossibility.

There have been numerous Ferrari road car model kits offered for general sale in the US over the time span of this arrangement, The Enzo, Modena 360, and the 550 are all currently available here in model kits, produced by none other than Tamiya, and sold here by Tamiya USA. In addition diecast models are also on sale in the US.

Such "exclusive" arrangements, however unpalatable to collectors and model car builders, ARE a fact of life in the toy and hobby industry. They do, of course, add to the "red tape" involved, and a noticeable piece of the retail price, to cover the royalties. And, no they are not illegal under US Law, and most likely not under any European statutes either--licensing of such "intellectual properties" have been a fact of life for decades now, and I don't see it ending anytime soon.

Art

#41 T54

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 05:09

Mattel Inc., through this agreement, is the sole US licensing agent for model kits and toys of Ferrari cars--it's up to anyone wishing to produce or sell miniature Ferrari's in the USA to arrange for a license to do so through Mattel, and I suspect that's not an impossibility.


When politely asked about the possibility of modeling a 1961 TR61 as a limited edition 1/32 scale slot car, Mattel sent us a threatening letter telling us that if we even attempted such thing, they would sue us to extinction.
They are indeed only interested to talk to the "big ones" in the industry, in violation of all accepted licensing standards. Never mind the small guys because they will crush them when caught.
Of course we could always call it a Barlini TR61 and have Phil and Olivier Sarti as drivers.

#42 man

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 05:10

Originally posted by A E Anderson


Actually, Mattel's agreement with Ferrari isn't merely and exclusive license to Mattel for the production of models and toys of Ferrari cars.

Mattel Inc., through this agreement, is the sole US licensing agent for model kits and toys of Ferrari cars--it's up to anyone wishing to produce or sell miniature Ferrari's in the USA to arrange for a license to do so through Mattel, and I suspect that's not an impossibility.

There have been numerous Ferrari road car model kits offered for general sale in the US over the time span of this arrangement, The Enzo, Modena 360, and the 550 are all currently available here in model kits, produced by none other than Tamiya, and sold here by Tamiya USA. In addition diecast models are also on sale in the US.

Such "exclusive" arrangements, however unpalatable to collectors and model car builders, ARE a fact of life in the toy and hobby industry. They do, of course, add to the "red tape" involved, and a noticeable piece of the retail price, to cover the royalties. And, no they are not illegal under US Law, and most likely not under any European statutes either--licensing of such "intellectual properties" have been a fact of life for decades now, and I don't see it ending anytime soon.

Art


A rather depressing situation for collectors. What I can not understand is how a brand like Ferrari would be content with associating itself with Mattel/Hotwheels (what a pathetic name!) I suppose money talks...

It is true that alternative Ferrari diecasts are available, Brumm for instance continues to produce 312's 126 C2's and C4's but there seems to be little else. Somebody really should highlight this issue to Ferrari. Minichamps seems to be producing or intends to produce (at some stage) pretty much everything that has existed on fours wheels with the exception of Ligier...whats up with that?

#43 A E Anderson

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 09:58

Originally posted by man


A rather depressing situation for collectors. What I can not understand is how a brand like Ferrari would be content with associating itself with Mattel/Hotwheels (what a pathetic name!) I suppose money talks...

It is true that alternative Ferrari diecasts are available, Brumm for instance continues to produce 312's 126 C2's and C4's but there seems to be little else. Somebody really should highlight this issue to Ferrari. Minichamps seems to be producing or intends to produce (at some stage) pretty much everything that has existed on fours wheels with the exception of Ligier...whats up with that?


man...

I do suppose that Mattel's being, by far, the single largest toy company on the planet ($1.2 BILLION in revenue in 2004) just might have something to do with it.

Now, of course, Mattel's minions aren't particularly stupid--they aren't likely to lay out what might have been upwards of half a million dollars for an all-inclusive licensing agreement with anyone -- and, beyond their second-largest line of toys (Hot Wheels), they really do not produce much at all in the way of licensed products (Oh yes, "Barbie", Mattel's signature doll character for little girls, has driven Corvettes for years, has a Hummer H2 at the moment I believe--but NO Ferrari!), unless they can demonstrate the possibility of products that are profitable both for their company AND the licensor.

Mattel has done this before with automotive marques--a particular example being Cadillac--General Motors Cadillac Division did withdraw from an exclusive licensing agreement with Mattel, ostensibly due to Mattel's not generating nearly enough royalty revenue for Cadillac from that, this being in late 2003. At Johnny Lightning (where I was a product development designer and product manager until unceremoniously "retired" by RC2 Brands this time last year), we were ecstatic, as we finally could release a '59 Cadillac Eldorado casting for which tooling had languished on the shelf after being fully approved by Cadillac, but not gotten to production BEFORE Mattel acquired that exclusive license. So, given Cadillac's dissatisfaction, one can only hope that Ferrari as well, sees the light, hmmmm?

Art

#44 T54

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 14:26

Now, of course, Mattel's minions aren't particularly stupid...


I guess it is just a matter of opinion. May I remind you of the fate of Mattel
s last president, the "Babie Pusher", canned a few years back for having practiced that very art?

#45 A E Anderson

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 00:27

Originally posted by T54

I guess it is just a matter of opinion. May I remind you of the fate of Mattel
s last president, the "Babie Pusher", canned a few years back for having practiced that very art?


Well, hard as it may be to believe, "Barbie" the doll line, is Mattel's single largest division--and still the #1 toy line worldwide.

As for the CEO you mention, her troubles went much farther than just her insistence on continuing the tradition of the creator of Barbie (the wife of Mattel's founder), who insisted on passing on every design, every variation of Barbie--in short, the woman was pretty much a witch (not that this has anything to do with the topic at hand)

Art

#46 T54

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 00:32

So now it is the whole company that has turned into a witch. What else is new for the enthusiast longing for unavailable Ferrari models?

#47 paulhooft

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 09:06

Yes!
Put Barbie together with Schoemie :rotfl: in a Ferrari
and forget about it!
Paul

#48 Pedro 917

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 09:51

Barbie's boyfriend Ken has a Ferrari 308.....

#49 T54

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 16:12

Barbie's boyfriend Ken has a Ferrari 308.....


And it's not even a figerglass one... just cheap polypro...

#50 paulhooft

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 16:29

Barbie's boyfriend :lol: Ken :lol: !!! has a Ferrari 308.....

And Ken's boyfriend? :rotfl:


Paul Hooft :lol: