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Pre-war Donington and its races


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#1 Kvadrat

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 09:46

Pre-war Donington and its races

Here's circuits map:

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Starting zone

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1936 Donington GP Dick Seaman crosses finish line.

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Grid before 1937 Donington Grand Prix

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Start of 1938 Donington Grand Prix

Main straight

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Start of 1937 Donington Grand Prix

First corner was called Red Gate Corner. Why?

View towards the corner
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Rosemeyer, 1937 Donington Grand Prix

Backwards direction
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Rosemeyer and Seaman during 1937 Donington Grand Prix

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Start of 1937 Donington Grand Prix
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Muller and Dreyfus, 1938 Donington Grand Prix

View from Red Gate Corner to Dunlop Bridge
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1938 British Empire Trophy (capture from British Pathe clip)

Closer view
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Auto Union during 1938 Donington Grand Prix

Then I need pictures of Dunlop Bridge from opposite side and way through Holly Wood

Out of Holly Wood
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Veiw towards Hairpin Bend.
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Next is view from photographers and camera men favorite place in Hairpin Bend. Posted Image

Wider view
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1938 Nuffield Trophy

Hairpin Bend jump
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Opposite view
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Across the road
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Bridge after Hairpin Bend
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Coppice Wood, McLeans Corner and next straigt are missing in my collection.

This must Coppice Corner entrance looking like just forest road
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Caswell during very first Donington race on March 25, 1933

The same place during 1937 Tourist Trophy
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Following points of Coppice Corner
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Farm gate
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Farm gate from Coppice Corner
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I also don't have pictures of long straight after Coppice Corner

Melbourne Corner from outside
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Inside
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Exit
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Beginning of the final straight
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http://f1archive.nar...nuvolari3-a.JPG

Jump
http://f1archive.nar...37-seaman-a.JPG

http://f1archive.nar...7-muller2-a.JPG

Whole leap view
http://f1archive.nar...er-muller-a.JPG

Finally finish
http://f1archive.nar...osemeyer4-a.JPG


Who were those McLean and Coppice?


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#2 Kvadrat

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 09:57

Sorry, it appears that they don't allow direct pictures viewing. I'll make HTML file.

#3 Holger Merten

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 10:34

Yes, please, after reading the subtitles I'll expect really interesting stuff. :cat:

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 13:23

Originally posted by Kvadrat
First corner was called Red Gate Corner. Why?

Near the Dunlop Bridge was (is?) a house called Redgate Lodge. The track turns left towards it at Redgate Corner.

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Who were those McLean and Coppice?

Don't know who McLean was, but Coppice is not a person - it's another word for woodland, specifically " A grove of small growth; a thicket of brushwood; a wood cut at certain times for fuel or other purposes."

#5 Kvadrat

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 01:36

Originally posted by Holger Merten
Yes, please, after reading the subtitles I'll expect really interesting stuff. :cat:


Right now you can click on the link and then klick on another link with file's name in appearing Narod.ru page. It works.

Vitesse, thank you.

#6 marat

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:53

LAT archives ?

#7 Kvadrat

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 07:18

Obviously yes according to their water marks and captions I added in Franco Varani's style. There are also copyright marks in poor quality British Pathe stills. High quality stills are available at BP with much bigger marks. A friend of mine is downloading them and I'll get them soon.

There are some good pictures in the review above whose source I don't remember. May be Motorsnippets?

Big Hairpin picture was scanned from GBR published book on Auto Union cars. Finally color stills were captured from Duke Videos' The Magnificent 50s tape.

I'm looking for missing pictures. Does anybody have ones of McLean corner and long straight after farm gate?

#8 Holger Merten

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 07:28

Unfortunatly it tooks a lot of time to load up a picture from the russian server. But what I saw was really interesting.

#9 MichaelJP

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 10:37

Those shots of Coppice Farm always look incongruous to the modern eye. Not many farms now are set in woodland. I suppose even as recently as pre-war there was a lot more woodland around in the UK.

In addition, what makes it an even more unusual photograph is the sight of Nuvolari's Auto Union passing through an English farm gate!

When you walk now around that area at Donington it's very hard to imagine how it was, even though the farm building is still there.

- Michael

#10 Kvadrat

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 04:42

I watched on TV last years's DTM Donington race (Jean Alesi won for the second year running) and always wondered how present part of the track just before Hairpin Bend (I don't know if the bend itself still exist) looks similar to pre-war photos.

There's some information on the circuit in Leif Snellmann's page at http://www.kolumbus....4.htm#DONINGTON. It used to be 4.130 km until the middle of 1937 season and then it was 5.028 km. Length given in available map is 3 miles 220 yards i.e. approximately 5 kms. What was the shorter circuit?

#11 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 09:25

The track was lengthened for the TT, held at Donington for the first time on 4 September 1937. As Bill Boddy explained in the Motor Sport Book of Donington:

The circuit at Donington had been specially lengthened for the race by a loop cutting out Starkey's Corner and running down to the new Melbourne Corner. Formerly 2 miles 971 yards in length, the circuit now measured 3 miles 220 yards.


Thus was created the famous 'leap' as the cars came back up the hill from the Melbourne hairpin.

#12 Kvadrat

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Posted 19 May 2004 - 09:14

Thank you, Tim. Here's map from "The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing" showing new Melbourne Loop as well as old Starkey's Corner:

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Does anybody have picture of the Starkey's Corner?

#13 Kvadrat

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 06:53

Updated Donington Park pictorial guide

The circuits map

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Copyright and source unknown

Starting zone

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Copyright and source unknown

Main straight

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Copyright and source unknown

Towards the Red Gate Corner

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

View from Red Gate Corner towards main straight

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Copyright and source unknown

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

View from inside of Red Gate Corner.

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Secret Life of Formula One

Note car on the background going at speed at Starkey Straight

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Secret Life of Formula One

View from Red Gate Corner to Dunlop Bridge

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

Closer view

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

From other side

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Holly Wood

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Out of Holly Wood


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Source – capture from Duke Video The Magnificent 50s tape

Veiw towards Hairpin Bend

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Source – capture from Duke Video The Magnificent 50s tape

Hairpin Bend

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Source – GBR published Auto Union photo album

Wider view

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

Hairpin Bend jump

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

Opposite view

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Copyright and source unknown

Across the road

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

Further point

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Bridge after Hairpin Bend

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

Opposite view

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Towards McLean’s Corner

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

#14 Kvadrat

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 06:53

Coppice Corner entrance

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Copyright and source unknown

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

Following points of Coppice Corner

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Copyright and source unknown

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

Farm gate

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

Farm gate from Coppice Corner

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Source – capture from British Pathe clip

Farm from the beginning of Starkey Straight

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

I believe this is Starkey Straight

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Secret Life of Formula One

This must be end of Starkey Straight

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Old Starkey Corner

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

View from start-finish zone

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Secret Life of Formula One

From outside of Melbourne Corner towards Starkey Straight

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Inside Melbourne Corner

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

From outside of Melbourne Corner towards Melbourne Leap

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Exit

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Copyright and source unknown

Beginning of the main straight

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

Jump

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Whole leap view

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

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Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix

Finally finish

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Copyright – LAT Photographic Archive

#15 Kvadrat

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 04:21

Here's basic information for compiling of Donington Park races list

Racing first started at the track in 1933, when the owner of Donington Park Estate, John Gillies Shields, was persuaded to allow race meetings to be held in his grounds. Just two years later, the first 300-mile Donington Grand Prix was held - a race that was such a success it was repeated in 1936. After this, foreign teams were invited to take part, and the event went from strength to strength.

Source - http://www.topgear.c...ng_holidays/04/


Britain's oldest surviving racing circuit is at Donington Park, which is located 12 miles from Nottingham on the top of a windswept hill close to the East Midlands Airport.

The Donington Park estate belonged to the the Gillies Shields family and like many other English country estates until World War I when it was requisitioned by the British government and used as a prisoner of war camp. In 1915 Gunther Pluschow, a German pilot, made one of the few successful escape attempts of the war from Donington. In the years that followed the war the estate returned to normality and it was not until 1933 that Donington again made the headlines. A local garage owner from Derby called Fred Craner approached John Gillies Shields and convinced him to let the Derby & District Motor Club - of which Craner was the president - hold races on the estate roads. Racing on public roads in Britain had been banned after the disastrous Paris-Madrid race of 1903. It was this law which resulted in the decision to build the huge banked speedway at Brooklands, but the great oval was an exception to the rule and for most British racers it was a question of looking for private estates on which to race and so began the tradition of hillclimbs and sprints which developed at such venues as Prescott and Shelsley Walsh.

Having convinced Gillies Shields to allow him to organize races, Craner ran the first races at Donington in 1933 on a 2.1-mile track. The races were a big success and two years later Craner took the bold step of staging a 300-mile Donington Grand Prix. It attracted only local racers and was won by 'Mad Jack' Shuttleworth. The event was repeated in 1936 and won by a 23-year-old rising star called Dick Seaman, who shared an Alfa Romeo 8C with Swiss owner/driver Hans Ruesch. The following year Seaman was recruited by the factory Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix team. British fans began to take notice of European racing and Craner decided that he would invite all the big Grand Prix teams to an event in October 1937. Britain and Germany were edging towards war but 60,000 fans turned up to watch the mighty German racing teams: Mercedes- Benz and AutoUnion. The race provided an exciting battle between Bernd Rosemeyer in his AutoUnion and the Mercedes W125s of Manfred von Brauchitsch and Rudi Caracciola. Seaman collided with AutoUnion's Hermann Muller. Victory went to Rosemeyer.

Source - http://www.grandprix...pe/cir-021.html

Donington Park in 1931 was owned by a Mr.Shields who used to open the park to the public for the price of 6d. Fred Craner, a local garage owner and motorcycle racer, was looking for somewhere local to compete, and he came to an agreement with the landowner to hold a race on a dirt track in the grounds. The first meeting was held on Whit Monday, May 1931, on a 2 mile 327yd circuit.
For 1932 the track was improved, and a combined motorcycle and sidecar meeting was held. For 1933, the track was widened and tarmacked at a cost of œ12,000, and the first car meeting was held on the 25th March, followed by a further three car meetings that year. The track was extended for 1934, and by 1935 the circuit was 2 miles 971 yds long, and was established enough to hold the first Donington Grand Prix. The race was 4hrs47m12s long, and was won by Richard Shuttleworth in an Alfa Romeo.

For 1937 the circuit was extended again to 3 miles 220 yds, with the circuit being extended down the Melbourne Hill to the Melbourne Corner, which was situated just over the county border in Derbyshire! This version was used to hold the famous Third Donington Grand Prix, won by Bernd Rosemeyer in 3h1m22s in an Auto Union C Type. However, the war soon intervened, and the circuit was requisitioned by the military to store vehicles.

Although attempts were made to reopen the circuit, none were successful until the grounds were purchased by the self-made millionaire Tom Wheatcroft. It wasn't easy reopening the circuit due to the protrusion of the circuit into the neighbouring county, so racing was restricted to the 1.957 mile national circuit which missed out the Melbourne loop and was modified from the 1937 circuit (some of the corners were reprofiled and moved, and the some of the corners were renamed - see picture below).

Source - http://www.silhouet....s/doningto.html

The 1934 season was quite successful for Team Straight. With team mates R.E.L. "Buddy" Featherstonhaugh and Hugh Hamilton, Straight took part in several of the events during the season. Straight was victorious at the Donington Trophy race, the Brooklands Mountain race and the handicap South African Grand Prix.

Source - http://8w.forix.com/straight.html

The most senior racing drivers in the world will help celebrate the 70th Anniversary of Donington Park's first ever race meeting.

Ninety-two-year-old Tom Delaney competed in his Lea Francis at Donington during the circuit's first season in 1933 - and amazingly he is still racing the same car 70 years later.

Also present will be racing driver Willie Green, at the wheel of his father's Lea Francis, which ran the very first assessment laps at Donington prior to the meeting in March 1933.

The reunion will take place at the Donington Grand Prix Collection in the Midlands on March 25 - the home of the world's largest collection of grand prix racing cars.

The track-side museum contains a unique history of world motor sport with over 130 exhibits in five halls.

Both cars will then lap part of the extended original circuit, the Melbourne Loop, which still survives, but is no longer used for racing.

Donington is the only active circuit in the UK with a history that dates back over 70 years.

It was Alderman John Gillies Shields, who owned Donington Hall at that time, and Fred Craner of the Derby and District Motor Club who instigated racing at Donington Park, initially for motorcycles in 1931.

Tom Wheatcroft bought the track in the early 1970's, bringing racing back in 1977. He started collecting cars in the 1950s, and opened the Collection in 1973.

Source - http://www.hoot-uk.c...22032003-1.html

1933 Donington Park Trophy
7 October - Donington Park: 20 laps x 3,5084 km = 70,17 km


Pole Position: N/A
Fastest Lap: Francis Howe Bugatti T51 2.06,6

Results:

1 9 Francis Howe Bugatti T51 43.06,0
2 5 Lindsay Eccles Bugatti T51 43.51,0

Retirements:

4 Taso Mathieson Bugatti T35C 8 Engine

Did not start:

2 Whitney Straight Maserati 26M (8C-2500) Engine
3 Ron Horton MG K3 Mechanical
18 Eddie Hall MG K3 DNS
20 Freddie Dixon Riley 9 Head Gasket


Source - http://members.fortu...9/1933min18.htm

The Klemantaski Collection

LIST OF PROGRAMS AND RELATED DOCUMENTS

1934
International Races, Donington (10/6)

1935
Light Car Road Race, Donington (7/13)

1936
Donington Grand Prix (10/3)

1937
Light Car Road Race, Donington (6/12)
J.C.C. 200 Miles Race, Donington (8/28)
Donington Grand Prix (10/2)

1938
British Empire Trophy, Donington (4/9)
Donington Races (5/14)
Donington Races (6/24)
Nuffield Trophy, Donington (7/9)
Tourist Trophy, Donington (9/3)
Donington Grand Prix (10/22)

1939
British Empire Trophy, Donington (4/1)
Donington Races (5/20)
Nuffield Trophy, Donington (6/10)
Donington Races (6/24)
Donington Races (7/1)
Donington Grand Prix (9/30) (canceled)

Source - http://www.klemcoll....ProgramList.pdf

Donington Park lies where the three counties of Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire and Derbyshire meet. The circuit is situated near the village of Castle Donington in Leicestershire and opened for motorcycle racing in March 1933. During the war years it was used as a stores by the army and it gradually fell into disuse until it was bought in the 1970's by the now legendary character, Tom Wheatcroft. His intention was to stage the highest level of motorsport there.

Source - http://www.bikersweb...ton/preview.htm

An original programme for the SS Car Club's Donington race meeting on Saturday April 17th 1937.
Interesting to note that there are several ladies driving, one in a 1937 SS100, the other in a 1936 2½ Litre saloon - apparently the SS Car Club did have a large number of active lady members.

Source - http://www.jag-lover...cc_don0437.html

Original letters from Bill Rankin of SS Cars Ltd plus matching SS Car Club documentation. The first invites SS dealers and main distributors to attend the SS Car Club's Donington meeting on July 8th 1939.

Source - http://www.jag-lover...s/sscc_don.html

United Hospitals & University of London Motor Club

The Club was originally formed in about 1932 or 1933 for the London Hospitals and membership was extended to the University of London about 1935, when permission was obtained from the University for the use of the name. During this period the Club's president was Dr. Benjafield of Bentley fame and the Club was one of the first to organise motor racing on the Donington Park circuit. Our badge dates from this period, having been designed by D W Harvey with the help of "Caput" of the Autocar.

UHULMC DONINGTON PARK RACE MEETINGS

We held race meetings at Donington Park on

24 Oct 1936
29 May 1937
8 Oct 1938
20 May 1939

Source - http://users.breathe.com/pwa/uhulmc/ & http://users.breathe...lmc/donngtn.htm

Extracts from The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing

6.10.34 – Nuffield Trophy (Donington Park Trophy);
13.07.35 – Nuffield Trophy;
3.10.35 – Donington Grand Prix;
4.04.36 – British Empire Trophy;
4.07.36 – Nuffield Trophy;
29.08.36 – JCC 200 Mile Race;
3.10.36 – Donington Grand Prix;
10.04.37 – British Empire Trophy;
12.06.37 – Nuffield Trophy;
28.08.37 – JCC 200 Mile Race;
4.09.37 – RAC Tourust Trophy;
2.10.37 – Donington Grand Prix;
3.09.38 – RAC Tourust Trophy;

Source - http://www.kolumbus....4.htm#DONINGTON

Finally dates for the first ever races takes from page which seem to be no longer existed:

25.03.33 – first race (sport cars);
13.05.33 – sport car race;

#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 10:27

Vladimir, here's a more complete list of Donington meetings, based on the Motor Sport Book of Donington, plus some information from your posts above. Note that it is not totally complete, since I suspect that a number of minor meetings are not included, especially in 1939.

March 25th 1933 - D&DMC Opening Meeting. 6 races.
May 13th 1933 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
August 19th 1933 - D&DMC Meeting. 9 races.
October 7th 1933 - D&DMC Meeting. 6 races.

April ?? 1934 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
May 12th 1934 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
?? 1934 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
August 18th 1934 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
October 6th 1934 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races including the Donington Park Trophy and the Nuffield Trophy.

?? 1935 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
May 11th 1935 - D&DMC Meeting. 7 races.
July 13th 1935 - Nuffield Trophy, plus 2 support races.
August ?? 1935 - D&DMC Meeting. 6 races.
October 3rd 1935 - Donington GP.

April 4th 1936 - British Empire Trophy.
May 9th 1936 - D&DMC Meeting. 6 races.
July 4th 1936 - Nuffield Trophy, plus 2 support races.
August 29th 1936 - JCC 200 Miles.
October 3rd 1936 - Donington GP.

April 10th 1937 - British Empire Trophy.
May 12th 1937 - Coronation Trophy, plus 3 support races.
May 29th 1937 - UH&ULMC Meeting. 8 races for cars, 3 for motorcycles.
June 12th 1937 - Nuffield Trophy, plus 1 support race.
July 10th 1937 - BOC/VSCC Meeting. 10 races.
July 24th 1937 - D&DMC President's Trophy - the Donington 12 Hours.
August 28th 1937 - JCC 200 Miles.
September 4th 1937 - Tourist Trophy.
October 2nd 1937 - Donington GP

April 9th 1938 - British Empire Trophy.
May 14th 1938 - D&DMC Meeting. 6 races including the Coronation Trophy.
July 9th 1938 - Nuffield Trophy.
September 3rd 1938 - Tourist Trophy.
October 8th 1938 - UHCC Meeting. 9 races. (This is described as the club's "fifth Donington meeting", which doesn't tally with your post above!)
October 22nd 1938 - Donington GP
?? 1938 - VSCC Meeting. 11 races.
?? 1938 - SSCC Meeting. 12 races.

April 1st 1939 - British Empire Trophy.
June 10th 1939 - Nuffield Trophy.
June ?? 1939 - CUAC Meeting. 7 races.
August 12th 1939 - VSCC Meeting. 6 races.

#17 Kvadrat

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 04:54

Thank you, Richard. It's very useful information!

Motorsport activity began at Donington in 1931, but that were motorcycle races. I think the first car race was in 1933. Here's some more information found on the web.

The Donington Grand Prix Collection last week played host to the Investiture of the Order of the British Empire to celebrated motorcyclist and historian Charles Edmund ìTitchî Allen.

'Titch', 89, was present at the first discussions at Donington Park prior to the introduction of racing in 1931. At that time, he was a 16-year-old junior reporter with the Leicester Evening Mail. The talks took place at Donington Hall and were headed by Alderman John Gillies Shields J.P. and Fred Craner, Secretary of the Derby and District Motor Club. During the lunch break, ìTitchî vividly remembers riding his 172cc Francis Barnett 2-stroke machine on what were then horse carriage tracks with an uneven, loose surface. He went on to report on every pre-war race meeting to take place at Donington Park.

Racing commenced at Donington Park later that year, and the pre-war era culminated in the 1938 Donington Grand Prix which was won by Tazio Nuvolari driving a works Auto Union.
The presentation was hosted by Donington Park and Collection owner Tom Wheatcroft, who witnessed the Donington Grands Prix of 1935 to 1938 as a schoolboy enthusiast. Her Majesty’s Lord Lieutenant of Leicestershire, The Lady Gretton J.P. made the presentation, which was also attended by the Chairmen of Leicestershire County Council and North West Leicestershire District Councils. Also present were members of the Donington Park Pre-War Racers Association, several of whom competed with “Titch” at events in the years before World War II.

The O.B.E. citation to “Titch” was in recognition of his massive contribution to motorcycle heritage for over 70 years.

Through over 65 years of motorcycling he has competed on most makes, including the ultra-powerful 1000cc Brough Superior. He was awarded the British Empire Medal for his services as a despatch rider during World War II and he founded the Vintage Motorcycle Club in 1946 which now boasts 14,000 members worldwide. He has written several books, including the definitive story of the Birmingham-made Velocette motorcycle.

“Titch” said, “My wish to receive the O.B.E. at Donington Park was granted by Tom Wheatcroft, and I am very grateful to him for hosting this memorable day within his Grand Prix Collection”.

Tom Wheatcroft, whose pioneering efforts brought racing back to Donington Park in 1977, is continuing to increase and broaden the motorcycle heritage display within the Grand Prix Collection, which is headed by the actual motorcycle which won the very first race at Donington Park on Whit Monday 1931; the 350cc Raleigh, which was ridden to victory by “Squib” Burton. The machine is on loan to the Collection by kind permission of its owner Mr Alf Briggs of Derby.

Donington Collection

That was one of rare true links from 'Derby & District Motor Club' keyword search. All other links are to different '... & District Motor Clubs'.

#18 Kvadrat

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 03:39

Please help me with club races results.

#19 Vitesse2

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 13:21

That's a big ask, Vladimir! What sort of help? Most of the club races are quite complicated: some are two-heat affairs with a combined result on times, some are scratch races and some are handicaps but most were no more than five or ten laps, often contested by a motley assortment of unlikely cars!

BTW, I came across a reference to unofficial car races of a sort taking place at Donington as early as 1931. In his book "Mostly motor racing", Rivers Fletcher recalls that some friends of his had found a back way into the park and that they had three nights of highly enjoyable (if illegal) racing there before Fred Craner chased them off!

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#20 Kvadrat

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:34

Funny story.

I'm trying now to collect basic information, which allows to research and investigate various questions. British motorsport is extremely interestion for me at the moment, and my greatest dream is to got whole picture in mind on Brooklands events through its two decade history. But circuits like Donington Park and Crystal Palace are also very interesting.

It doesn't matter if some club races are really minor. Only comparing to them we can state importance of other ones.

I guess Derby & District Motor Club no longer exists?

#21 Ben

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 16:30

Just out of interest, does anyone have an overlay map of the new track on the old track?

Ben

#22 Kvadrat

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 01:06

Posted Image

Source - http://www.silhouet....s/doningto.html

#23 MichaelJP

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 07:47

One thing I've always wondered on my many trips to Donington - concerning that bridge after the Old Hairpin where the cars used to go through one of the arches. What's the bridge there for in the first place? It's a massive stone construction but as far as I can see doesn't cross a river and the road doesn't even go anywhere!

- Michael

#24 Rob29

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 08:09

I think it was the access route to Donington Hall,but part seems to have been demolished before the original circuit was thought of!

#25 Kvadrat

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 01:30

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Holly Wood

Posted Image
Source – capture from Discovery Channel feature Nazi Grand Prix


Sorry, this is NOT Holly Wood section, because there wasn't bridge there from which cameraman took this footage. I don't think this is both Dunlop Bridge and after Hairpin stone bridge, because there were no turn before them. So this is on of two Starkey Straight bridges. Does anyone have their pictures?

#26 humphries

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 15:04

Does anybody have the entry (with race numbers) for the 1939 Empire Trophy at Donington?

John

#27 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 15:23

I don't have race numbers, John, but I've identified 15 (of 19) starters, of which seven finished, plus two DNS (Evans, Cotton) and two DNA (Hyde's Riley - drove Maserati, Mathieson). I've seen 23 entries quoted, so as Hyde started there may be another non-starter or non-arrival?

Finishers: Rolt, Hadley, Hyde, Gee, Pollock, Parnell, Aitken
DNF: Wakefield, Dobson, Wilkinson, Brooke, Abecassis, Hanson, Nickols, Dodson

#28 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 17:17

The Stone Bridge used to span a ravine at the infield side of what became the circuit. There was water and water plants in the bottom of the ravine but I can't recall whether it was running or not, nor can I work out where from and where to... I suspect it might all have been standing water, a fakey-flakey 18th or 19th century landscape gardener's string of ponds and waterways perhaps, at one time artificially fed or pumped in a carefully contrived landscape to beautify the approaches to Donington Hall. The ravine was filled-in I think during the Army's occupation and use of the site. I can't recall whether or not it was still there on my first visit in 1970.

DCN

#29 humphries

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 18:13

V2

Thanks but I have the entry list --- Wilson, Maclure, Gerard and Ansell were the other retirements _---- it's the race numbers I'm lacking. No programme or photocopy of same.

Cheers, and your package is ready to go.

John

#30 Marcor

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 21:38

If I believe the captions from Autosport, I have 6 numbers out of 23...

3, Charles Dodson, Maserati 4CM 1128 1096 cc
8, J. F. Gee, Riley 1496 cc
12, R. E. Ansell / Charles Brackenbury, ERA B R9B 1488 cc
17, Ian H. Nickols, MG Magnette K3 Special 1087 cc s/c
18, A. C. Pollock, ERA A R2A 1488 cc
19, A. P. R. Rolt, ERA B R5B 1488 cc s/c

#31 David Beard

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 22:16

Originally posted by Doug Nye
The ravine was filled-in I think during the Army's occupation and use of the site. I can't recall whether or not it was still there on my first visit in 1970.

DCN


The bridge in 1974, if it's any help...the ravine must have been filled in long before to enable all those trees?
Posted Image

#32 Marcor

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Posted 17 September 2004 - 21:42

My source was The Autocar, not Autosport, sorry

#33 MichaelJP

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 08:08

Thanks for the info Doug, makes sense - presumably the whole area was heavily landscaped as was the fashion in the 18thC (Capability Brown style) and the bridge then is really a "folly" rather than a practical structure.

David's 1974 picture is interesting, looks as though much of Coppice Wood is still there. Presumably the right hand side of the bridge was demolished for the new circuit, doubt if you'd get away with that or the tree-clearing these days!

- Michael

#34 humphries

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 14:33

Marc

Thanks.

Using photographic evidence is reliable but laborious yet worth a go. Quite why I have not been able to acquire a copy of this programme I don't know. I have been after it for ages.

Are you sure about Nickols, #17 would put him with the 1500s. #7 ?

Anyway, using the photos from "The Motor" I can add Hadley # 1, Hyde # 23, Parnell # 25, Abecassis #11 and Hanson #15. That should make 10 or 11 out of the 23.

If anybody has a copy of the MotorSport report or any other perhaps they can add a few more numbers. Of course, hopefully, someone could put us out of our misery and provide the numbered entry list.

John

#35 djellison

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 14:53

Originally posted by David Beard


The bridge in 1974, if it's any help...the ravine must have been filled in long before to enable all those trees?
Posted Image


WOW - it looks SO different !!!! They REALLY went to town on the place - it'd be a much more atmospheric place if most of those trees remained :D

Doug

#36 Rob29

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 15:53

Originally posted by djellison


WOW - it looks SO different !!!! They REALLY went to town on the place - it'd be a much more atmospheric place if most of those trees remained :D

Doug

It was a much more atmospheric place when I first visited it in 1977. has got steadily worse since. I have heard 2 stories. One that the infield trees had Dutch Elm Disease and had to come down ,another they wanted to provide spectators with a better view across the circuit! Either way it now resenbles a windswept airfield no more inviting than Silverstone.

#37 Marc Ceulemans

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 23:37

John,
I'm not sure at all about #17. It seems that I once made a typing error... #17 is illogical.

The cars entered in the race varied in size from 750 cc (the little Austin driven by H. L. Hadley) to 4,900 cc (the Reg Parnell's BHW). So they were divided into 3 groups for handicap purposes.

Group A, for supercharged cars up to 1,100 cc and us/c cars up to 1,500 cc, received 4 credit laps

Group B comprising s/c 1,500 cc machines and us/c cars up to 4,000 cc received 1 lap.

Group C comprising the s/c cars over 1,500 cc and us/c over 4,000 cc were on the scratch mark and have to complete the full distance of 64 laps or 200 miles.

Group A:
H. L. Hadley (744 cc s/c Austin A7 Twin Cam 4 cyl)
Charles Dodson (1,096 cc Maserati 1,096 cc)
A.D. Hampshire (Riley entered by A.B. Hyde)
P.W. Maclure (Riley 1,487 cc)
F.R. Gerard (1,486 cc Riley)
J.E. Gee (1,496 cc Riley)
H.L. Brooke (1,486 cc Riley-brooke Special)
N.G. Wilson (1,090 cc ERA A R4A))
I.H. Nickols (1,087 cc MG Special)

Group B:
8 1488 cc s/c ERA driven by Arthur Dobson (works entry), Wakefield, Cotton, Aitken, Rolt, Pollock, Ansell, Hanson
Abecassis, G. E. (1,486cc s/c Alta 61S 4 cyl)
Wilkinson, W. E. / Whitworth, A. D. (1,986 us/c Riley)

Group C:
A.B. Hyde (2,992 cc Maserati)
K.D. Evans (2.900 cc Alfa Romeo)
Parnell, Reg (4,975 cc s/c BHW)

TASO Mathieson entered a Maserati of unspecified capacity.

#38 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 13:53

Originally posted by Marc Ceulemans


TASO Mathieson entered a Maserati of unspecified capacity.


Alleged to be a 3-litre, ex-Villapadierna, unraced for several years and coming from Morocco! (source - Motor Sport Book of Donington, reprinting the original report).

#39 Kvadrat

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 03:18

Here are two pictures from probably club races.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Note that originally start was between Holly Wood and Hairpin.

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#40 ricardo1954

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 18:58

Hello :

Can anyone will help me to know the results of the following races of Donington?

1937 -

May 12th - Coronation Trophy

1938 -

May 14th - Coronation Trophy
June 24th - ?

Thank You!

Ricardo

#41 David McKinney

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 20:37

The 1937 race was called the Coronation Handicap
1 Charles Goodacre (Austin 7)
2 Charles Martin (Alfa Romeo)
3 Pat Fairfield (ERA)
4 J F Gee (Riley)
5 Kenneth Evans (Afa Romeo)
6 Kay Petre (Austin 7)

The 1938 race was also a handicap, but this time entitled Coronation Trophy
1 Raymond Mays (ERA)
2 Tony Rolt (ERA)
3 Ian Connell (ERA)
4 Ian Nickols (MG 750)
5 Cuth Harrison (Riley)
6 Hugh Hunter (Alta)
DNF: Charlie Dodson, Bert Hadley (Austin 7s)

I don’t know of any important Donington race in June 1938

#42 Rob29

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:03

Originally posted by David McKinney


I don’t know of any important Donington race in June 1938

June 26 1938-London Grand Prix-also a handicap-16laps.
1st B Bira
2nd Dobson-14secs
3rd Cuddon -Fletcher (MG)
4th Abecassis (Alta)

#43 Roger Clark

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 08:53

Originally posted by Rob29
June 26 1938-London Grand Prix-also a handicap-16laps.
1st B Bira
2nd Dobson-14secs
3rd Cuddon -Fletcher (MG)
4th Abecassis (Alta)

Are you sure it wasn't Crystal Palace?

#44 David McKinney

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 09:32

Those certainly are the placings in the 26/6/38 London Grand Prix at Crystal Palace

#45 Rob29

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 10:37

Originally posted by Roger Clark

Are you sure it wasn't Crystal Palace?

Oops! brain not in gear-must be the hour change. handicaps & Coronation races!
Move to correct reference book confirms no major race at Donington in June. 24th was a thursday so unlikely race day.However 3 small club meetings detailed in 'Motor Sport Book of Donington' for 1938 with no dates!
VSCC
SS Car Club
United Hospitals MC

Does anyone know the dates of these meetings?

#46 ricardo1954

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 11:44

Hello :

Thank you for all answers.

Ricardo

#47 Roger Clark

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 12:11

Originally posted by Rob29
24th (June) was a thursday

David Weguelin's ERA book says that the Crystal Palace meeting was the 25th. The dates of other races are consistent with this being a Saturday.

#48 Kvadrat

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Posted 13 January 2005 - 10:04

Posted Image

If the image isn't visible, here's link at Getty Images page:
http://editorial.get...d=3263643&cdi=0

Caption: 1st April 1938: Number 21 in the pits - Raymond Mays.

Was it practice for 9 April British Empire Trophy? Which number did Mays have in that race?

#49 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 00:43

The Autocar report of the race includes a picture of the revised front suspension of the ERA, which conforms to the car in your picture. The car depicted is numbered 21, but it doesn't definitely confirm it was Mays - could be Howe's, as their cars were to the same spec.

I think you're right in assuming it's a practice picture. There seems a general lack of urgency and no crowd is visible. Whether it's as early as April 1st, I don't know, but I don't think they'd already have the number boards on the pits over a week before the race. April 7th maybe?

#50 Kvadrat

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 02:09

Richard, can you scan the report? Does it have entry list?