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#1 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 12:37

Chaps:

Just a short inquiry to clear up something ref pronounciation.

I've long thought that the correct pronounciation of the famous carb manufacturer was simply 'Weber' in English as in a spider's 'web' plus 'er'. Lately, I've convinced myself that it may not necessarily be the case. It may be, considering it's European basis, 'Veber' with the 'W' sounding as a 'V' or even 'Vayber'. Could we have a definitive answer on the correct pronounciation?

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#2 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 12:42

Certainly pronounced "Web" in our part of the world (I have two DCOEs on my Crossflow powered Caterham Seven).

#3 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 13:39

Eric:

To be sure, that's what I always called it, too. My Crossle FF was fitted with a street down-draught Weber and my old A-H Sprite had a single 45 DCOE fitted as well.

Just looking for the definitive call. Just possible that for all these years, I've been mis-pronouncing it.

#4 Ralliart

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 14:30

Eduardo Weber was the man's name, wasn't it?

#5 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 14:35

Cyclists are usually big fans of baked potatoes.



Oh...I thought you meant Webber carbs.


:blush:

#6 Garrypolled

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 14:58

I believe Eduardo Weber was the offspring of an Italian mother and a German father. There are some interesting stories concerning his disappearance after WW2. His widow wrote a book, which I'm sure is out of print.
Certainly when I was involved with the company in the early 70's most people used the name "Webber" although I always pronounced it Vaber. Then I emigrated to the USA and adopted the American pronunciation, as in Webber, simply because people didn't think I was talking about the same product!

#7 D-Type

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 15:48

I would think that in English speaking countries it's pronounced Webber because we don't know any better and In german speaking countries it's Vayber because that's the way they see it.

As the company is Italian, the correct answer is the way the Italians pronounce it. Cue Guido etc

#8 panzani

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 15:55

Here in Brazil we say "Vebber", with both es like in better.

#9 Frank S

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 17:14

OK.

Tomato it is.

Now do " B M W ", please.

I feel a little vertigo when I hear the nouveaux arrivistes wittering about their
"Beemers".

#10 xflow7

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 17:24

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Certainly pronounced "Web" in our part of the world (I have two DCOEs on my Crossflow powered Caterham Seven).


Crossflow powered Sevens :up: :up: :up: :up: :clap:

#11 jgm

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 21:16

Interestingly the letters 'w' 'k' 'x' and 'y' do not exist in the Italian alphabet.

#12 eldridge

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 23:00

X-flow sevens - brill
Mine runs on 45s
:D

#13 Wolf

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 00:16

Originally posted by jgm
Interestingly the letters 'w' 'k' 'x' and 'y' do not exist in the Italian alphabet.


When's the last time You watched Winter Olympic Games?;) They have fairly large ethnic German population in the north, so Italians do have those letters in their names, even though Italian language doesn't...

Frank- is that a trick question? Be-eM-Ve (with short e, like in let). Just like VW is Fau-Ve.

#14 Ralliart

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 01:42

I believe I read that Weber, a Fascist Party member (like Enzo Ferrari), was killed by partisans near the end of the war. It might have been in Brock Yates book on Ferrari. Possibly someone who has that book could confirm, but I believe it was in that book.

#15 Frank S

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 01:47

Originally posted by Wolf


When's the last time You watched Winter Olympic Games?;) They have fairly large ethnic German population in the north, so Italians do have those letters in their names, even though Italian language doesn't...

Frank- is that a trick question? Be-eM-Ve (with short e, like in let). Just like VW is Fau-Ve.

When I learned Espanish it had no "Ks". In the world of today, much shrunken from those olden days, Kleenex and Kodak are not the only current words that break the rule. Even one of the best-known Mexican words is said to have sprung from a K-ful word: "Tecate" is purported to be the pronunciation of an abbreviated form of an ancient Nahuátl word whose principal sounds were "T K T". Enough contradictions in there to make me suspect it is a leyenda úrbana.

Part of my stand-up comedy routine is: "I have some bad news for you Beemer drivers. Are you going to be angry when I tell you your car is not a 'Bee Emm Dubya'? You zoom along in the fast lane, fingering your shift knob and congratulating yourself on an astute car choice, and you can't even say its name? That puts you in the same category as the fellow who prefers his Chibby with the dingle balls in the windows. How do you feel now? (I knew you weren't going to like it)"

#16 rdrcr

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 02:16

:lol:

Ok... Ok... so it's Bay-Em-Vay... but I'm uhh 'Merican so it's Bee-Em-Dublya!



















Also known as ~ Brings Me Women...

















*smack* ... oh hi Jacque...


:|


...errr used to be known as...






Good thing I got a Chebby too... so I can pronounce it like a Mexican

#17 rdrcr

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 02:21

BTW,

Pursuant to the actual topic... I've always heard it referred to as and pronounced the famous carb manufacturer as Web-ber

#18 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 02:45

Originally posted by Ralliart
I believe I read that Weber, a Fascist Party member (like Enzo Ferrari), was killed by partisans near the end of the war. It might have been in Brock Yates book on Ferrari. Possibly someone who has that book could confirm, but I believe it was in that book.



From the Brock Yates book.

..[Weber] vanished just prior to the end of the fighting. It was speculated by some that he had been taken by the Communist partisans, to be held for ransom. But this was never confirmed and Weber's body was never located.

#19 Brun

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 09:31

I've always heard it pronounced as 'Vaybar'.

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#20 2F-001

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 11:58

Originally posted by xflow7


Crossflow powered Sevens :up: :up: :up: :up: :clap:


Me too! Me too!

#21 gdecarli

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 14:07

Originally posted by D-Type
As the company is Italian, the correct answer is the way the Italians pronounce it. Cue Guido etc

The company is Italian, but the name is German, so we (try to) pronounce it according to German rules.
German W is like Italian V, while all other letters are the same. So in Italian we would write it Veber.
I have problem to explain this with English rules, but I think that Panzani's explication (Here in Brazil we say Vebber, with both E like in better) is quite good also for Italians.

By the way, original italian alphabet has only 21 letters, so we miss J, K, W, X, Y. Of course we perfectly know their use because of foreign languages; moreover, J was used in old Italian and all of them (but W) were used by Latins and/or Greeks.

Originally posted by Wolf
When's the last time You watched Winter Olympic Games? They have fairly large ethnic German population in the north, so Italians do have those letters in their names, even though Italian language doesn't...

Well, this is not fully correct. The only Italian area with many German names is Alto Adige (Süd Tirol in German), that is a region close to Austrian border that in 1919 was included in Italy even if it was a German speaking area (and it still is, even if there many Italians moved there).
As they live on the mountains (like Dolomiti...), they are very good in winter sports: so even if we had champions like Alberto Tomba or Deborah Compagnoni (Italian names), many of them have German names like Isolde Kostner, Gustav Thöni (Thoeni in Italian, as we have no ö), "Much" Mair, Peter Runggaldier and so on, just speaking about ski.

I don't know where Edoardo Weber was coming from, but Weber factory was founded in Bologna is late 1920s, so quite far from Alto Adige/Süd Tirol. I know two beer factory, Wuhrer and Von Wunster (now Heineken Italia), but no more examples of 100% Italian factory with German names.

There is a brief story of Weber factory (in Italian) on www.deputatids.it.

Ciao,
Guido

#22 Wolf

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 15:49

Guido- sorry I was not precise enough (I think there is nothing inherently wrong in my statement, but can be read to mean something I didn't intend to say :)). Maybe insertting 'somewhere' to read "...fairly large ethnic German population somewhere in the north..."- I knew it was somewhere in mountains, but didn't know exactly where, so I used relatively broad term 'north'.

P.S. A small O.T. if nobody minds. I asked this in Paddock a while back, but would Italian term 'Mezzogiorno' (some southern provinces, IIRC) have ethymology 'south' (probably old, 'biblical' meaning- like Germans have; with noon, morning, evening and midnight meaning four cardinal points on the compass)?

#23 D-Type

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 16:24

Originally posted by gdecarli
~
but no more examples of 100% Italian factory with German names.
~


What, not even Caracciola? :lol:

Back OT

The British, Irish, Americans and Australians say Web-ber
Or do the Aussies say "They're too expensive to import so Bluey's done a copy"
The Brazilans and Italians say Veb-ber
The Italians say Veb-ber
The Dutch and the Germans Vay-bar
The Croatians are too busy watching winter sports! :lol:

Any more?
Portugal - kwstr and aliases?
France - Gigleux?
Hawaii - Hans?
etc

#24 David Birchall

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 17:00

This is a fascinating and overdue thread~In my experience the New Zealanders pronounce it Vebar-I thought maybe the Aussies did to-We don't seem to have heard from them yet.

Certainly as a Limey I have always called them Webbers but then surprisingly, we English are not ALWAYS right. I think it's going to be difficult to change my habit now. (I look better in a blouse and skirt anyway...)

While we are talking about Vebars/Webbers/Webers I need a set for my Aston Martin DB2! Prefer 35s or 38s but anything considered. :blush:
Regards, David B

#25 gdecarli

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 19:02

Originally posted by Wolf
P.S. A small O.T. if nobody minds. I asked this in Paddock a while back, but would Italian term 'Mezzogiorno' (some southern provinces, IIRC) have ethymology 'south' (probably old, 'biblical' meaning- like Germans have; with noon, morning, evening and midnight meaning four cardinal points on the compass)?

Mezzogiorno (= noon) is a composite word: mezzo is half and giorno is day.

Sometimes we use it to identify South, as sun at noon is in south direction and so - more often - Mezzogiorno identify Southern Italy in general (usually Campania, Puglia, Basilicata, Calabria, Sicilia).
Mezzogiorno (or Ostro) is also the name of wind blowing from south.

Mattina (= morning), Sera (= evening) and Mezzanotte (= midnight) usally are not used to indicate directions or wind.

Back to winds and racing: we have Mistral straight (not to be confused with Italian Maestrale!) al Le Castellet and Circuito del Levante at Binetto (Bari), Italy. Then we have cars with wind names: Maserati Ghibli, Maserati Khamsin, Maserati Bora, Maserati Shamal, Volkswagen Scirocco, Volkswagen Bora, Volkswagen Passat, Zonda and Austin Maestro: all these are wind names, explained on this page (in English). To be honest, I'm not sure Zonda and Austin Maestro are named after their own wind!

Ciao,
Guido

#26 Garrypolled

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 19:16

I spent some time at Via Timavo, in Bologna, in the seventies. It was a fascinating place, with thousands of one and two barrel carburetors (apologies for the USA spelling!)being assembled and shipped to Ford, Renault and Vauxhall. I remember the new "clean rooms" with air lock entries, had just been built. The last time I visited, Via Timavo was an electronics assembly plant.
The carburetor business suffered a precipitous drop as most of the OE manufacturers changed to Fi to meet emissions regs. Weber had to move with the times and Magnetti Marelli became the prime name for marketing to OEM's.
In the last ten years or so, the carburetor production was moved/sold(?) to a Spanish company. Rumour has it that production there has ceased, possibly the result of some sort of labor dispute.

#27 Catalina Park

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 08:10

Originally posted by David Birchall
This is a fascinating and overdue thread~In my experience the New Zealanders pronounce it Vebar-I thought maybe the Aussies did to-We don't seem to have heard from them yet.

I am only a poor aussie so I pronounce it SU ;)

#28 eldougo

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 09:03

:It's always been Weber to me. :wave: an SU.

#29 Catalina Park

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 09:19

I pronounce it Weber as well. :wave:

#30 Barry Lake

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 16:55

I don't remember hearing any Australian pronouncing it anything other than Webber, as in F1 Jaguar driver Mark, although I always wondered what the real pronunciation was.

There are two of them on my Datsun 1600, getting dusty down in the garage, and I also had two each on two of my open-wheelers - Jolus Minx and Elfin Ford.

Call them whatever you like, they sound great as the air rushes into those bell-mouths!

#31 RTH

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 17:33

Originally posted by 2F-001


Me too! Me too!


Do you mean something like this ?

This was the production sports seven we did the Willhire 24hr race at Snetterton in 1984

Posted Image

#32 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 20:45

That picture looks awfully familiar - the only thing different between the 1984 Seven and my 1996 one are the air filters - which on mine are K & N.

#33 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 21:19

Well any time you encounter a word of which the origin is unknown, you pronounce it based on the rules of your native language. Now that we know the correct way, we should all convert ourselves to the proper vocals.

#34 Uwe

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Posted 16 May 2004 - 21:38

Originally posted by 2F-001

Crossflow powered Sevens

Me too! Me too!

Cosworth powered Sevens  ;)

Tony, you remember a certain Gulf coloured Seven in Spa? :smoking:

Uwe

#35 Bruce Moxon

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 09:37

Barry's right regarding Aussie pronunciation - "Webba"

But New Zealanders pronounce it "Wibba"

And I have three - a downdraft 32/36 DGAV on the car now and a pair of 40mm DCOE's to go on once I get a manifold made. The car is a 1600 Holden Camira - GM J-car - so same as an Ascona I think.



Bruce Moxon

#36 eldougo

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 11:13

: Question is to VEBER or not to WEBBA ,I go and tune the WEBER's while you VERK it out. :up

#37 gdecarli

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 13:27

Originally posted by gdecarli
I don't know where Edoardo Weber was coming from, but Weber factory was founded in Bologna is late 1920s, so quite far from Alto Adige/Süd Tirol. I know two beer factory, Wuhrer and Von Wunster (now Heineken Italia), but no more examples of 100% Italian factory with German names.

:blush: I forgot another good sample that you all know: Abarth! German name, as Karl Abarth was from Wien, but Italian factory!

Ciao,
Guido

#38 uechtel

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Posted 17 May 2004 - 21:29

Indeed it does not sound very much German either. Maybe of Hungarian origin?

#39 2F-001

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 15:12

RTH:

re the Seven pic... yes, quite a lot like that ! (I currently have an 1800cc XFlow on twin Webers in a '91 deDion, and I have a Varley where there is a heater in that pic - and it's currently off the road, but otherwise all very familiar, as Eric says).


Uwe:

Why yes, of course! ... hello! Did we discuss TNF at Spa? I can't remember - that was such a full (and very enjoyable) trip.
I hope to be there again next week at the Autotrak days - I'm not driving, just having a holiday.


So, quite a few Seven fans around here then...

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#40 David McKinney

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 16:26

Originally posted by David Birchall
This is a fascinating and overdue thread~In my experience the New Zealanders pronounce it Vebar

Interesting observation, DB
In NZ we always called them Vaybers, though I admit that as time went on I found, as have others, that people didn't know what I was talking about - or even "corrected" me - so I slipped into the Webber habit.

#41 Uwe

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 23:49

Originally posted by 2F-001
Uwe:

Why yes, of course! ... hello! Did we discuss TNF at Spa? I can't remember - that was such a full (and very enjoyable) trip.
I hope to be there again next week at the Autotrak days - I'm not driving, just having a holiday.


So, quite a few Seven fans around here then...

Tony,

no, we didn't talk about TNF at Spa and I didn't know then you are a TNF member. I learnt about it when you hinted at Angus' Spa report a few weeks back here. Unfortunately I don't know yet when I'll be there the next time. Hope I'll make it to the next Seven race in October.

#42 Paul Newby

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 03:38

Originally posted by D-Type


What, not even Caracciola? :lol:

Back OT

The British, Irish, Americans and Australians say Web-ber
Or do the Aussies say "They're too expensive to import so Bluey's done a copy"
The Brazilans and Italians say Veb-ber
The Italians say Veb-ber
The Dutch and the Germans Vay-bar
The Croatians are too busy watching winter sports! :lol:

Any more?
Portugal - kwstr and aliases?
France - Gigleux?
Hawaii - Hans?
etc


Like the other Aussies on TNF I call them Web-ber.

I have two sets - twin 45DCOEs on my Alfa Alfetta GT race car and the standard 40DCOEs that came off the car originally.

As for Bluey doing a copy - I have no idea? We aren't into reverse-engineering here in Australia. Now if China had a history of performance cars a generation ago, they would've devloped a copy. Remember in Japan they made Mikuni/Solex and SU copies in the 60s & 70s.

#43 john medley

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 07:43

I have a pair of early downdraught Webers on the engine in my Elfin. They are labelled as DCN, and I'm told they are almost as rare as rocking horse manure. Can any of the experts here tell me what car(s) they were originally used on?

#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 12:18

Originally posted by john medley
.....Can any of the experts here tell me what car(s) they were originally used on?


I'm no expert, but a little search finds two cars you'd recognise that used them...

Lamborghini Muira
Ferrari 365GTB/4 Daytona

#45 Pils1989

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:16

Hello,

Does someone have a good address for a pair of triple 46 IDA 3C please?

Thanks,

Antoine

#46 Terry Walker

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 13:31

My Alfa 1750 GTV had Webers (pronounced, in Oz, Webbers.) But, on comparison with feldwebel, I figured it was probably correctly vebber. Or even Veyber. I went with the majority and said Webber.

My mate Dave Sullivan has a triple downdraught Veyber on his desk as a paperweight, with a serial number which proves it came from an historic racing Porsche. He was a Weber man to the core: he set up the Webers on my GTV when I bought it, and something like 15 years later they hadn't been touched, tuned or ajdusted and were still spot on.

Edited by Terry Walker, 19 January 2010 - 13:31.


#47 David McKinney

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 16:13

It'd be Veyber if they were German, but they were Italian
I've never really known what the Italian pronunciation would be

#48 RS2000

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 17:25

I was brought up in England to pronounce it "Vayber", then found on entering motorsport (in the West London suburbs near their concessionaires) that everyone else seemed to say "Webber".
Now, what about Citroen? I was brought up to pronounce it as 3 syllables, still do and have rows with even Citroen enthusiasts who pronounce it with 2 syllables like the modern "Beemer" brigade. I maintain that in French it has 3 syllables, however indistinct they are from 2.

Edited by RS2000, 19 January 2010 - 17:25.


#49 Peter Morley

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 17:36

Hello,

Does someone have a good address for a pair of triple 46 IDA 3C please?

Thanks,

Antoine


Antoine

Apparently PMO in the States make a replacement version but I guess that won't be much use to you?

Peter

#50 Pils1989

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 18:20

Antoine

Apparently PMO in the States make a replacement version but I guess that won't be much use to you?

Peter


Thanks Peter for the answer. I've heard about PMO but I have a lead on a pair of Weber ones, I'm just checking if someone has some other sources.