93 replies to this topic

[Twin Window]

I thought I'd share this in the hope that someone will come out with other similar shots!

In particular, I'd like to see a photo of Lauda when he tested a Matra MS120 at the Osterreichring in 1972...

[Vicuna]

That's not a Matra Tee Dub, but it is Matra powered.

It's a Ligier - I'd be guessing - JS9. Or 7.

Or JS something odd.

[ghinzani]

More pertinant perhaps is "whats he doing in it"?? and did Jacques get in his Ferrari?

[m.tanney]

  The car is a JS7, Ligier's 1977 car. The press called it "the blue Ferrari". Perhaps Niki wanted to see if it really was...

[Vicuna]

Hey TW, your helmet avatar has more than a passing resemblence to the crash hat design worn by Marcus Pye.

From the front at least.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Vicuna
Hey TW, your helmet avatar has more than a passing resemblence to the crash hat design worn by Marcus Pye.

From the front at least.

Well spotted, Vic! I wondered if anyone would spot the design. I bought or swapped it (I forget which) with MAWP circa 1982. It wasn't my first helmet, but I've always held it as a favourite for it's design, more than for it's livery.

[RX-7]

Ohhh! Those beautiful Ligier's! Great times back then.

[philippe7]

Originally posted by Twin Window


Well spotted, Vic! I wondered if anyone would spot the design. I bought or swapped it (I forget which) with MAWP circa 1982. It wasn't my first helmet, but I've always held it as a favourite for it's design, more than for it's livery.

TW

Who on earth is MAWP , if I may ask ?

Was that helmet one of yours, Twin Window ? From my point of view , it looks very much like the one of Rupert Keegan !!!!! ( which in turn , reminded me of the one of former motorcycle 250 world champ Rodney Gould.....only with a "K" in place of Gould's four-leave clover.) ...

[Twin Window]

The picture I'm now using is of Rupert in 1979; I changed it as it comes out a lot better than the one of my helmet!

[ghinzani]

MAWP is Marcus Pye, a bloke at Autosport who blags free drives and writes the odd article IIRC.

I like Ickx's twin window helemt myself, was his the first in F1?

[Twin Window]

Ickx was certainly one of the first, but I think Derek Daly was the first. Eddie Cheever, Bobby Rahal and John Watson are the only other F1 drivers who used this design, as far as I can remember. They're quite rare these days, I understand...

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by ghinzani
MAWP is Marcus Pye, a bloke at Autosport who blags free drives and writes the odd article IIRC.

I think that's rather unfair. Marcus Pye has been with Autosport many years, always concentrating on national and club racing. He knows his stuff, both history and the current scene, and is one of the few writers who ensure that Autosport is not comlpetely "F1 Illustrated".

[Vicuna]

I agree Roger - MAWP is a good bloke and grassroots banner waver.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Roger Clark

I think that's rather unfair. Marcus Pye has been with Autosport many years, always concentrating on national and club racing. He knows his stuff, both history and the current scene, and is one of the few writers who ensure that Autosport is not comlpetely "F1 Illustrated".

I expect it depends on your point of view really. I worked with one company that was run by ex-public school types who got on like a house on fire with him, although he did get freebies and seat time in their cars from him. On the other hand I worked with a junior formula manufacturers who couldnt stand him, allegedly because he was only after free rides and was only interested in people from the same social class as him. I think they probably did rub him up the wrong way, but then journalists are supposed to be impartial. However when you work for a company that owns both the weekly publications in their market and are in charge of a section dealing with people often in the up and coming level of the sport, certainly the more impecunious end, then you wield a lot of power. This can leave you open to accusations of abusing that power, or alternativley because you are the only conduit thru which people desperate to make it up the racing ladder have open to them then you are bound to attract a lot of "buttering up" for want of a better word.

All I will say is when I read his column in Autospurt I do like to spot when he has been on a factory visit, freebie track day or whatever because it gets reflected in blatant over-enthusiasm - I also have to have a chuckle when "the next big thing" he has reported on turns out to be a lame duck or load of hot air - witness the Interactive Sportscar series. Then its really apt when he has to eat "Humble Pye".

[Mallory Dan]

Agree with Roger on MAWP. I've never met him (tho' was on the verge of talking to him re his Modus FAt at Donington recently), but he appears a genuine Club/National fan with the sort of interests at heart that appeal to most of us. He's also been very consistent, and not wandered into an F1 PR/"spin job" that so many other Journos do. One of us I reckon, shame he doesn't post on here or the other place, he'd have some great stories to tell I'm sure !

[Vicuna]

I have met MAWP - and in the most unlikely of places, the Invercargill Pizza Hut at the bottom of the South Island.

He was here for the 1990/91 Pacific series. He was happy chatting to all types of people and eventually gave me a ride back to my hotel because we ending up chatting away until the restaurant closed.

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I thought I'd share this in the hope that someone will come out with other similar shots!

In particular, I'd like to see a photo of Lauda when he tested a Matra MS120 at the Osterreichring in 1972...

Well...I seem to have missed this.
Obviously you knew about Nikis test-drive.
Tell me about it. I just happened to be there...and if I remember right the car stopped out on the track.

Best: Staffan.

[P 4 Staff]

And the picture I took.

[VDP]

Not the same car Matra Ms 120 and in 1972

Robert

[P 4 Staff]

Originally posted by VDP
Not the same car Matra Ms 120 and in 1972

Robert

Not sure I understand....the picture is taken at Österreichring in 1972.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by VDP
Not the same car Matra Ms 120 and in 1972.

Robert, if you read my thread-opening post Staff's comments make complete sense.

[P 4 Staff]

Yes...Matra only started 1 car...#10 Matra-Simca MS 120D with Chris Amon as a driver.
He started as number 6 on the grid...and ended up as number 5....in the race.
About the test-drive for Niki in the Matra....there seem not to be very many people who knows about it.
That´s why I think it´s interesting that in fact Twinny knows about it.

And...I´d like to know more...if possible.

Staffan.

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Ickx was certainly one of the first, but I think Derek Daly was the first. Eddie Cheever, Bobby Rahal and John Watson are the only other F1 drivers who used this design, as far as I can remember. They're quite rare these days, I understand...

TW

From my fading memory ICKX was the first in F1.

[philippe7]

Originally posted by P 4 Staff
Yes...Matra only started 1 car...#10 Matra-Simca MS 120D with Chris Amon as a driver.
He started as number 6 on the grid...and ended up as number 5....in the race.
About the test-drive for Niki in the Matra....there seem not to be very many people who knows about it.
That´s why I think it´s interesting that in fact Twinny knows about it.

And...I´d like to know more...if possible.

Staffan.

Very intersting picture, Staffan, never knew Lauda had tested a Matra ( well, until I read Twinny's opening post, that is....)

However , I do not think this is a MS 120 "D" type ( of which only one was built ) , it still has the "sloping" triangular sides of the B/C versions.....maybe brought to Zeltweg as a spare for Amon's race car ?

[edelweiss]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I thought I'd share this in the hope that someone will come out with other similar shots!
(...)

But to come back to post #1 in this thread: does anyone has info on Lauda in the Ligier. Just for the pic or did he really drive in it. And where is it. Is it Zandvoort?

[fichifichi]

Well, actually it really seems to be Zand... From the shape of the straight and of the stands, quite longer than the one of the osterreichring. Incredible the easiness and the relaxed atmosphere there used to be in the test sessions

[Frank de Jong]

I'm sure it is Zandvoort. Look at the flats in the distance and the grandstand (if you could call it that...).

[Twin Window]

To clarify... The pic in my first post is of Lauda testing a Ligier at Zandvoort in 1977. In that post I asked if anyone had a pic of him testing the Matra at the Osterreichring in 1972 - something I'd heard about but never seen a photo of. Staff subsequently posted the image he's re-posted here in another thread. As I'm currently only able to post using my phone I can do nothing about this at present, but I've since also come across a photo of another incidence I'd only previously heard about, namely G Hill testing the Matra in 1972 (at Zandvoort, I think).

[philippe7]

That rings a bell.....I think Graham Hill did test an MS120 F1 car ( at Paul Ricard maybe ? ) , but that was either as a "reward" for his Le Mans victory with Pescarolo, or a "pre-Le Mans" test to get acquainted with the engine behaviour ...I'm really not sure .

[Jerome]

But still I want to know... why did Lauda sit in a Ligier in 1977... he was already having big trouble with Ferrari that year...

[edelweiss]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I thought I'd share this in the hope that someone will come out with other similar shots!

Originally posted by edelweiss
But to come back to post #1 in this thread: does anyone has info on Lauda in the Ligier. Just for the pic or did he really drive in it. And where is it. Is it Zandvoort?

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
[b]But still I want to know... why did Lauda sit in a Ligier in 1977... he was already having big trouble with Ferrari that year...

Well, like Jerome.Inen I am still curious about the Lauda pic.

It was obviously Zandvoort, but did Lauda really drive in this Ligier or did he just sit in it?
Were there lap-times. More pics? Any info is welcome!

[Arjan de Roos]

Directly after the Belgium GP some teams went to Zandvoort for testing. This was 6th and 7th of June 1977. Lauda was there on the Monday only as Ferrari tested a elongated T2. Most probably the 20 cm longer (stretched behind the engine) wheelbase as tested before on Fiorano.
Reutemann tested on the Tuesday.

Other teams present: Ligier and Fittipaldi. I only found pictures of Fitti and El Lole during the obviously quite rainy Tuesday. No pics of Lauda driving the Ligier.

Greetings from Uithoorn!

[philippe charuest]

it was obvious soon in the 77 season that Lauda was leaving ferrari .i remember that Renault was very interested by his service and they were willing and able to pay the price for an expensive driver like lauda , but that ride in the ligier it was just for fun but im sure that ducarouge and all the team was more then happy to hear his feedback , Lafitte wasnt exactly a top test driver

[Twin Window]

I'm finally back on-line at home, and so here is the 1972 pic of G Hill testing the Matra MS120C I alluded to in post #28 above...

Originally posted by edelweiss

...but did Lauda really drive in this Ligier or did he just sit in it?

I think it's fair to say that he drove the Ligier, as opposed to just sitting in it and posing for some nice photos.

In contrast - i.e. an incident which was more of a 'photo opporunity' - here's Emerson Fittipaldi in Lauda's Ferrari at Monaco, 1974....

[bill patterson]

Lauda in Ligier - does anyone have a photo of Michael Schumacher in the Ligier Renault during 1994/95 testing period?

Ligier was part owned (I think) by Flavio and Michael wanted a taste of the Renault engine that would power the Benetton in 1995.

[edelweiss]

Originally posted by bill patterson
Lauda in Ligier - does anyone have a photo of Michael Schumacher in the Ligier Renault during 1994/95 testing period?

Ligier was part owned (I think) by Flavio and Michael wanted a taste of the Renault engine that would power the Benetton in 1995.

I am your humble servant.

[Huw Jadvantich]

This one has never really got to the point has it? What were the circumstances of Lauda getting into the Ligier, how many, if any, laps did he do, was he quick, did Ferrari know, did they mind, did Lafitte know, did he mind? or did Guy Ligier find Lauda in his car and tell him to piss off out of it before he fetch him one?
Nuther question. Graham Hill in the 120 - was it before or after the 24 hours? or was that his lap time?

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich

...did Lafitte know, did he mind?

He doesn't look too bothered in the photo!

[Arjan de Roos]

I wonder if Lauda really drove the Ligier.

In any case those tyre tests where carried out on working days, often wet and windy (characteristic for Zandvoort). Those tyre tests where open for anyone, you could walk down the pits with no obstruction. I bet there wasnt too much crowd along the track, let alone a decent photographer.

In 1979 Ferrari came to test their Michelins, with Forghieri, Gilles, Jody and two mechanics. Forghieri would call some acquainted locals to hold the stopwatches at certain corners. Those where the days...

[Huw Jadvantich]

he he yes i didn't spot him in the pic there, Doh! But then when guy ligier tells you Laudas getting in your car, Lafitte presumably knew him well enough by then not to argue!!!
Thats really what I meant -who organised it , what "it' was, did it ruffle any feathers, and what was the result? someone must know there were a few people standing around.........

[Formula Once]

If I had not just seen the picture I might have found this one hard to believe, but Lauda drove a Ligier at Zandvoort in 1977 (probably during the tyre test). Does anyone know anything about this (or about Lauda driving a Matra at Zeltweg in 1972, of which I also found images)?

[dolomite]

http://forums.autosp...auda AND ligier

[Formula Once]

Sorry for that, hadn't noticed.

For your information: got a picture here of Lauda in the Matra at Zeltweg, but can't post it and I don't know what's the story behind it.

The picture I got from Lauda the Ligier at Zandvoort shows him actually driving the car out of the pitlane heading for Tarzan, so he did drive it.

[my_own_shadow]

Originally posted by Formula Once

The picture I got from Lauda the Ligier at Zandvoort shows him actually driving the car out of the pitlane heading for Tarzan, so he did drive it.

Any chance to see this photo?

[Formula Once]

Got no idea how to upload it here, sorry.

[AAA-Eagle]

Originally posted by Twin Window
I've also come across a photo of another incidence I'd only previously heard about, namely G Hill testing the Matra in 1972 (at Zandvoort, I think).

Originally posted by Twin Window
I'm finally back on-line at home, and so here is the 1972 pic of G Hill testing the Matra MS120C I alluded to above...

Originally posted by philippe7
That rings a bell.....I think Graham Hill did test an MS120 F1 car ( at Paul Ricard maybe ? ) , but that was either as a "reward" for his Le Mans victory with Pescarolo, or a "pre-Le Mans" test to get acquainted with the engine behaviour ...I'm really not sure .

From Who? What? Where? When? Why...? thread:

Originally posted by Ruairidh
Hill's testing was at Jarama in 1972 and that is a works Matra MS120C. Chris Amon was ill and so missed the scheduled session. Hill stepped in.

[edelweiss]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Directly after the Belgium GP some teams went to Zandvoort for testing. This was 6th and 7th of June 1977. Lauda was there on the Monday only as Ferrari tested a elongated T2. Most probably the 20 cm longer (stretched behind the engine) wheelbase as tested before on Fiorano.
Reutemann tested on the Tuesday.

Other teams present: Ligier and Fittipaldi. I only found pictures of Fitti and El Lole during the obviously quite rainy Tuesday. No pics of Lauda driving the Ligier.

Greetings from Uithoorn!

Meanwhile I have this pic of Lauda in a Copersucar. Same day??

[AAA-Eagle]

Originally posted by Formula Once
Got no idea how to upload it here, sorry.

You can upload it to Imageshack.us and post a link here.

[AAA-Eagle]

Originally posted by edelweiss
Meanwhile I have this pic of Lauda in a Copersucar. Same day??

Well, circumstantial evidences allow to say that it's very much possible...

[Formula Once]

Like this?

http://img229.images...gierk020iz7.jpg