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Before we lose track...the Black Books case history


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#1 Roger Clark

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 10:11

The Sheldon Black Books were issued in a limited series of a few hundred copies of each volume. I thought it might be interesting to see how many of these we can track down through TNF before the inevitable happens and someone starts producing replicas (or reproductions). :lol:

My own are:

Volume 1: unnumbererd
Volume 2: 428
Volume 3 108
volume 4 385
Volume 5 unnumbered
Volume 6 unnumbered
Volume 7 277 (Paul Sheldon's signature on this is completely different from the others.)
Volume 8: 372
Volume 9 487
Volume 10: 293
Volume 11: 150

Only 300 copies of Volume 11 seem to have been produced, 500 for the others.

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 11:17

OK, I'll play your game:

1 - unnumbered
2 - unnumbered
3 - 294
4 - 285
5 - unnumbered
6 - unnumbered
7 - 404
8 - 228
which is as far as I go

#3 ReWind

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 11:26

These are mine:
[u]Vol.[/u] [u]No.[/u]  [u]received on[/u]

  1   -   19 Jun 1987

  2   45  26 Oct 1990

  3  266  10 Mar 1993

  4   60  15 Dec 1993

  5   -   02 Nov 1988

  6   -   08 Dec 1987

  7  110  31 Oct 1991

  8   79  29 Aug 1994

  9  194  25 Aug 1995

 10   32  29 Nov 1996

 11  105  19 Oct 1999

 12  101  11 Jan 2002


#4 ensign14

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 11:38

Volume 1: unnumbered
Volume 2: 3 :love:
Volume 3: 61
Volume 4: 53
Volume 5: unnumbered
Volume 6: unnumbered
Volume 7: 84 (sig looks normal to me)
Volume 8: 48
Volume 9: 30
Volume 10: 79
Volume 11: 91
Volume 12: 56
Addenda: unnumbered

I also have:
Record of Hillclimb Championship: 54 (of 250)
Record of South African F1: 94 (of 100 - phew)
1966 yearbook: 106 (of 400)

#5 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 11:46

Volume 1: unnumbered
Volume 2: 349
Volume 3: 337
Volume 4: 4
Volume 5: unnumbered (1989 reprint)
Volume 6: unnumbered

#6 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 12:00

Here's mine:

Volume 1: unnumbered
Volume 2: 20
Volume 3: 8
Volume 4: 6
Volume 5: unnumbered
Volume 6: unnumbered
Volume 7: 296
Volume 8: 320
Volume 9: 113
Volume 10: 40
Volume 11: 6
Volume 12: 83
Addenda: unnumbered

Also the 2 F5000 books, and the softback Formula Junior book

#7 David Beard

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 12:27

I don't have any:cry: :cry:


Mind you.....Pook's only have two.

#8 Rob Ryder

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 13:08

Volume 5: unnumbered
Volume 6: unnumbered
Volume 7: I wish :cry:
Volume 8: unnumbered
Volume 9: unnumbered
Volume 10: 287
Volume 11: 159
Volume 12: 121

I wonder why everyone's Volume 8 & 9 seem to be numbered except mine :confused:
Rob

#9 Rob G

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 13:28

Vol 1: unnumbered
Vol 2: 440
Vol 3: 484
Vol 4: 404
Addenda: unnumbered

Apparently I bought all mine just in the nick of time...

#10 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 16:30

Vol 1 - unnumbered
Vol 2 - 122
Vol 3 - 242
Vol 4 - 279
Vol 5 - unnumbered
Vol 6 - unnumbered
Vol 7 - 96
Vol 8 - 203
Vol 9 - 86
Vol 10 - 247
Vol 11 - 183

I missed out on Vol 12 - Mill House Books let me down.

The only (separate) addendum I have is one that came inside Vol 4 covering Vols 1, 5 & 6. How many other addenda were there?

#11 Rob29

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 16:32

I have the following;
Vol 1 un numbered-£36 at Motor Books
Vol 2 #171-signed by Sheldon & Rabagliati-£40 at Motor Books
Vol 3 #105 ditto £45
Vol 4 #151 ditto
Vol 5 un numbered-£40 at Motor Books
Vol 6 ditto £36 ditto

Also

F1 Record Book 1966 (ringbinder) #192 signed-£26 at Motor Books
F1R Fact Book F3 1967-69 un numbered (ringbinder-blue cover)
F1R Fact Book F3 1947-52 ditto £25 Motor Books

#12 Don Capps

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 19:33

Vol 1 -- Not numbered
Vol 2 -- No. 133
Vol 3 -- No. 69
Vol 4 -- No. 226
Vol 5 -- Not numbered
Vol 6 -- Not Numbered
Vol 7 -- No. 157
Vol 8 -- No. 80
Vol 9 -- No. 198
Vol 10 -- No. 100
Vol 11 -- No. 180
Addenda

Fact Books
1966 -- No. 204
South Africa -- No. 41
1976/78
1979/81
1985/87
1989

FJ 1958/61
FJ 1962/64
F3 1964/66
F3 1967/69
F3 1970/72
F3 1973/77

F5000 (Euro) 1969/72
F5000 (Euro) 1973/77

The Formula One Record Book
Milestones Behind the Marques

#13 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 21:06

Vol 1 -- Not numbered
Vol 2 -- No. 422
Vol 3 -- No. 499
Vol 4 -- No. 433
Vol 5 -- Not numbered
Vol 6 -- Not Numbered
Vol 7 -- Not Numbered
Vol 8 -- No. 342
Vol 9 -- No. 297
Vol 10 -- No. 146
Vol 11 -- No. 8

South Africa -- No. 93
FJ 1958/61
FJ 1962/64

The Formula One Record Book

#14 Frank de Jong

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 22:13

Milestones behind the marques
The Formula 1 record book

Hey, my prime interest is a little off F1 nowadays ;)

#15 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 22:18

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Milestones behind the marques
The Formula 1 record book


Add those to my list above too.

#16 Rob29

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 06:02

Add to my list;

The Formula One Record Book
F1R Fact Book 1989

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 09:59

Well then, if we're including other books, add onto my list:

Formula 3 1947-52
Formula Junior 1958-61
Formula Junior 1962-64
Tasman Formula Racing 1960-69
The Formula One Record Book
Milestones Behind the Marques

#18 Brian Lear

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 12:23

Vol 1 Un numbered
Vol 2 322/500
Vol 3 262/500
Vol 4 117/500
Vol 5 Un numbered
Vol 6 Un numbered
Vol 7 316/500
Vol 8 264/500
Vol 9 300/500
Vol 10 289/500
Vol 11 143/300
Vol 12 94/300

Formula 1 Register Fact Books.....
Tasman Formula 1964 - 1970, F5000 1968 - 1971 Un numbered
Formula 5000 1972 - 1981 Un numbered
Formula 3 1953 - 1955 Un numbered
Formula Junior 1962 - 1964 Un numbered
F1R Record book 1966 53/400
A Record of Tasman Formula Racing 1960 - 1969 (Nicholl) 79/100
Milestones behind the Marques

Brian Lear
Australia

#19 conjohn

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 12:26

My lot:

Volume 1 : unnumbered
Volume 2 : 42
Volume 3 : 49
Volume 4 : 49
Volume 5 : unnumbered
Volume 6 : unnumbered
Volume 7 : 7
Volume 8 : 44
Volume 9 : 40
Volume 10: 46
Volume 11: 98
Volume 12: 79
Addenda : unnumbered

1966 Yearbook : 15

Tasman : 100 (out of 100)

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#20 Rob G

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 13:15

If there's an award for consistency here, conjohn would probably get it. :D

#21 Adam F

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 14:06

Vol 1 -- Not numbered
Vol 2 -- No. 47
Vol 3 -- No. 153
Vol 4 -- No. 93 & 193 (2 copies)
Vol 5 -- Not numbered
Vol 6 -- Not Numbered
Vol 7 -- No. 275
Vol 8 -- No. 219
Vol 9 -- No. 4
Vol 10 -- No. 5
Vol 11 -- No. 167
Vol 12 -- No. 85
Addenda

South African F1 -- No. 59
British Hillclimb Championship -- No. 97

#22 Allen Brown

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 15:56

Hmm. Good game.

Vol 1 Not numbered (and binding fell apart when I opened it to find out)
Vol 2 #78
Vol 3 #301
Vol 4 #248
Vol 5 Not numbered
Vol 6 Not numbered
Vol 7 #42
Vol 8 #66
Vol 9 #33
Vol 10 #59
Vol 11 #100
Vol 12 - really - I didn't know that had even come out!
Addenda (publ 1995)

Record Books:
The Formula One Record Book (Thompson, publ 1974)
The Formula 1 Record Book 1966 #39
A Record of the RAC British Hill Climb Championship #60
A Record of Tasman Formula Racing 1960 - 1969 (Nicholl) #99
A Record of South African F1 #42

Fact Books:
Tasman Formula 1964 - 1970, F5000 1968 - 1971
Formula 5000 1972 - 1981
Formula 1 Register Fact Book 1989

And:
Milestones behind the Marques
Six Fact Books on F1/F2/F3000 publ around 1988.

#23 m.tanney

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 17:40

1. Not numbered
2. 192
3. 28
4. 199
5. Not numbered
6. Not numbered
7. 155

Addenda - not numbered

#24 Ron Scoma

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 18:02

Record of South African F1: unnumbered


Ron Scoma

#25 conjohn

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 18:17

Originally posted by Rob G
If there's an award for consistency here, conjohn would probably get it. :D

Early bird gets the worm... :wave:

#26 fines

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 18:55

Charming idea, Roger :D
Is anyone keeping track?

Vol. 1 - unnumbered, binding also falling apart for some time already :( [heavy usage? me?]
Vol. 2 - #157
Vol. 3 - #322
Vol. 4 - #188
Vol. 5 - unnumbered
Vol. 6 - unnumbered
Vol. 7 - #39
Vol. 8 - #121
Vol. 9 - #58
Vol. 10 - #35
Vol. 11 - #26
Vol. 12 - didn't know either it was out already. Paul, is there something you want to tell me? :D

1966 Record Book - #221

unnumbered:
several addendae (don't ask - the only duplicate I had is now in Tony Kaye's hands...)
F1&2 Fact Book 1976-1978
F1 Fact Book 1979
F3 Fact Book 1947-1952
FJunior Fact Book 1958-1961
FJunior Fact Book 1962-1964
F3 Fact Book 1989-1991
F3 Fact Book 1992-1994
unbound manuscript of ZA 1971-1975
unbound manuscript of D 1949-1959 (never published afaik)
Milestones behind the Marques

#27 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 21:02

Originally posted by fines

Is anyone keeping track?

Yes I'm forming a register of the Register. I'll publish it here when the thread seems to have run its course.

Vol. 12 - didn't know either it was out already. Paul, is there something you want to tell me?


There is apparantly a volume 13 - Collectors Car Books have a copy.

#28 d.c.a. mulcahy

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 04:45

Volume 3, No. 106
Volume 5, not numbered
Volume 6, not numbered
Volume 7, No. 63
Volume 8, No. 406
Volume 9, No. 228

#29 Barry Lake

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 14:48

Below is a list of the Sheldon books I own.
When I find some time, I will look through them for the serial numbers.


A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1900-1925 Vol 1
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1926-1931 Vol 2
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1932-1936 Vol 3
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1937-1949 Vol 4
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1950-1953 Vol 5
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1954-1959 Vol 6
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1960-1964 Vol 7
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1965-1969 Vol 8
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1970-1973 Vol 9
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1974-1978 Vol 10
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1979-1984 Vol 11
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing 1985-1989 Vol 12
A Record of Grand Prix & Voiturette Racing Addenda Volume
Formula 1 and 3000 Fact Book 1985-1987
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Tasman Formula 1964-1970/Formula 5000 1968-1971
A Record of South African Formula 1 Racing 1960-1975
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 5000 1972-1981
A Record of the RAC British Hillclimb Championship 1947-1994
Formula 1 Register Record Book 1966
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1953-1955
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1956-1963
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1964-1966
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1970-1972
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1973-1977
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1989-1991
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula 3 1992-1995
Formula 1 Register Fact Book Formula Junior 1958-1961
Milestones Behind the Marques


#30 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 15:45

While we're discussing Sheldon, does anyone know if the Addenda are still available and/or could some kind soul send me scans of the pages relevant to vols 1-6?;)

#31 Allen Brown

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 16:16

According to Chaters:

RECORD OF GRAND PRIX & VOITURETTE RACING VOLUME 12 1985-1989
SHELDON & RABAGLIATI
Published by ST LEONARDS PRESS.
Year of Publication: 2001
ISBN No: 0-9526050-7-4

According to the F1 Register web site there is also:
Volume 13 (1990-1994)

#32 Marcor

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Posted 14 June 2004 - 19:55

Volume 1: unnumbered, bought at London, 60 £
Volume 2: 448, bought at Paris, 600 FF
Volume 6: unnumbered, bought at Paris, 400 FF

#33 Darren Galpin

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 07:42

Volumes 1, 5 & 6 (all unnumbered), purchased from WHSmiths online for a total of £65 together.

#34 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 07:51

Since Marc posted his collection, I better show mine as well, although I am really waiting for the new Blue Books to come out. The kind of record keeping displayed in this thread does not make much sense to me but here it is for Roger's pleasure:

Vol 1 - unnumbered
Vol 2 - #44
Vol 3 - #231
Vol 4 - #172

I have never been that much interested in the F1 races after 1950 to warrant acquiring Black Books or copies thereof but have followed the grand prix races since 1951 by attendance, via radio, newspapers, magazines or TV. I enjoyed that immensely and have wonderful memories.

#35 ensign14

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 08:01

If we're including blue books, I have the 2 F5000 volumes as well.

#36 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 10:42

Volume 5
Volume 6
Volume 8, # 315
Volume 9, # 312
Volume 10, # 289
Volume 11, # 135
+ loads of photocopies from other volumes.

Stefan

#37 Roger Clark

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 11:28

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
The kind of record keeping displayed in this thread does not make much sense to me but here it is for Roger's pleasure:

My life is not that sad. I thought the thread might be a bit of fun, but if it's too trivial then I'll delete it.

#38 Don Capps

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 12:43

I find myself understanding both points of view, that of Hans as well as that of Roger. However, I do think that Roger has touched a chord here since there is that bit of curiosity that we all have as to just who has which number in The Black Books. Not anything of true importance, but just a bit of fun. For example, the conjohn sequencing is quite amazing in its consistency.

Another subtle issue is just the sheer depth of the effort that The Black Books and The Blue Books demonstrate. Many can say what they wish about Dr. Paul Sheldon, his wife Betty, and all the others who were involved in the assembling of these reference works, but I am always thankful for their labors. They certainly opened some doors for me for which I am grateful.

#39 ensign14

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 14:38

Originally posted by Don Capps
Not anything of true importance, but just a bit of fun. For example, the conjohn sequencing is quite amazing in its consistency.

And Felix has number 93 of the South African thing and I have 94. Once upon a time they were on a St Leonards Press table on top of each other...now a couple of thousand miles apart...

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#40 Alan Lewis

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Posted 15 June 2004 - 19:14

I agree, nothing wrong with this at all. These volumes may not be Palawan standard, and have the occasional mistake and printer's error - about thirty pages of the 1964 Formula 1 season is printed upside down and backwards in my copy - but who cares? They represent one of the most useful things anyone has ever done for our hobby. Paul Sheldon and his colleagues deserve a medal.

Right then...

Volume I, No number
Volume II, Number 173
Volume III, Number 122
Volume IV, Number 157
Volume V, No number
Volume VI, No number
Volume VII, Number 240
Volume VIII, Number 61
Volume IX, Number 186
Volume X, Number 42
Volume XI, Number 47
Volume XII, Number 124

1966 Record Book, Number 65

R.A.C. Hillclimb Championship 1947-1994, Number 114

The first few from Chater's, as I was living in Hounslow at the time, then Mill House. You can probably spot the ones that came out during "busy periods" of my life and those that appeared when I had more time to react. Like Tim, I was let down by Mill House on Volume XII ("the stock we have received is not of sufficient quality..."), so I wrote to St. Leonard's and got one (in perfect condition) direct, hence the delay on that one's number. Didn't know XIII was out yet, must get my order in...if you lot have left me any.

APL

#41 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 06:45

Originally posted by Roger Clark
The Sheldon Black Books were issued in a limited series of a few hundred copies of each volume. I thought it might be interesting to see how many of these we can track down through TNF before the inevitable happens and someone starts producing replicas (or reproductions). :lol:

My own are:


to register the register

Volume I, No number
Volume II, Number 105
Volume III, Number 188
Volume IV, Number 232
Volume V, No number
Volume VI, No number
Volume VII, Number 200
Volume VIII, Number 71
Volume IX, Number 163
Volume X, Number 89
Volume XI, Number No number
Volume XII, Number 33

Formula One Factbook 1966, Number 234

Formula 5000 (Europe) 69-72 Factbook No number
Formula 5000 (Europe) 73-77 Factbook No number
Formula Junior 58-61 Factbook No number
Formula Junior 62-64 Factbook No number
Formula 1 & 2 76-78 Factbook No number
Formula 1 & 2 79-81 Factbook No number
Formula 1 & 2 82-84 Factbook No number
Formula 1 & 3000 85-87 Factbook No number

so long

#42 Felix Muelas

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 09:23

Originally posted by ensign14
And Felix has number 93 of the South African thing and I have 94. Once upon a time they were on a St Leonards Press table on top of each other...now a couple of thousand miles apart...

:eek: :wave: :kiss:

#43 gerrit stevens

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 11:14

Volume 1: no number
Volume 2: 406
Volume 3: 102
Volume 4: 405
Volume 5: no number
Volume 6: no number
Volume 8: 283
Volume 9: 268
Volume 10: 244


Other Sheldon book
Tasman Formula 1964-1970/Formula 5000 1968-1971
Formula 5000 1972-1981
The Formula One Record Book (1961-1965)
And a number of Formula 3 books from 1964 to 1995.


Gerrit Stevens

#44 fines

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 17:02

Originally posted by Alan Lewis
- about thirty pages of the 1964 Formula 1 season is printed upside down and backwards in my copy -

Volume VII, Number 240

APL

:lol: That's probably the one I sent back to Paul complaining about the fact, and receiving a pristine one for exchange. Should've noted the #, though, I wonder how many were fouled up. :confused:

#45 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 21:32

Originally posted by Roger Clark

My life is not that sad. I thought the thread might be a bit of fun, but if it's too trivial then I'll delete it.

No reason to close shop, Roger! My remark should probably not have been made here just because of my different view. I did not intend to rock your boat. For example, I do not expect Karl or Doug to post here showing us what they have in their collections, which of course many would be interested to know and at least I would be surprised if they did.

I will say that this post seems to be quite popular by the amount of responses and certain remarks are quite entertaining to me. Many of us are waiting for the next generation of Paul Sheldon books, which I just called Blue Books or they might be coming in dark green covers from the U.K. ;)

#46 David Beard

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 22:06

Besides feeling a little inadequate because of the size of my collection, I am wondering how long ago most of you bought these books. Hen's teeth and rocking horse poo are somewhat easier to obtain these days.

#47 ensign14

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 22:23

I got mine almost when they came out, I'd heard about them in Motor Sport (I think) and when I bought the first it was like gold dust. I just HAD to have the others as soon as they became available.

I was still at school at the time, trying to fit a Saturday job to buy these and Autocourses and Birmingham City tickets et al around GCSEs (thank God they were a piece of piss) and A-levels. Then worked through my year out and during University hollygogs to fund myself through it. Think I had 1 week proper holiday between 1991 and 1995...

#48 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 June 2004 - 22:47

I bought the F1 Record Book when Frewins published it - 1975 or thereabouts. First two black books I bought were 5 & 6 - got them both together at Motor Books in about 1992. Others all acquired in the past 4 years: Vol 1 from WHS on the same deal Darren got, Vol 4 from Pooks at Goodwood FoS, 2 & 3 from Hortons, also at the FoS. "Milestones" a few months back from Book Barn (big s/hand emporium a couple of miles from where I live).

#49 Don Capps

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 02:41

I stumbled upon The Record Book almost by accident within months of its being released. It was nice to know that kindred souls actually existed in the universe. I don't recall exactly how I found out about it, but I ended up with two of them -- one from Classic Motorbooks back when they were still in Minneapolis and one from a pilot friend who snagged one for me. One was given as a gift to a friend and I kept one.

When I first got wind of The Black Books, it was 1989 or 1990. I was passing through the UK as the bag-toter for my general and had an afternoon to myself and found in one of the bookstores I knew about -- I cannot recall which one to save my life at the moment. Most of them after that I bought directly from Betty and Paul.

It was amazing how much information that the books contained compared to what I had managed to dredge up over the years. The real difference was in the material from the non-WDC events during the period after 1949. The data from prior to 1950 was usually priceless in my view since I just didn't have the resources to construct the data as they had managed to do so. I was often holding very incomplete data on so many races.

Again, while so many are quick to poo-poo The Black Books these days, it was a very different story a decade or more ago..... and most conveniently forget that minor fact of life. The Black Books put the mark on the wall and opened many a door. I certainly will not forget that.

#50 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 06:39

I was thinking of starting a thread for those who have (whisper it) NO black books! :(

You have no idea how utterly inadequate I now feel.....