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The Denis Debois memorial helmet thread (merged)


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#51 Le Duke

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 11:57

In 1968 and for the first time in formula one.
One drivers using integral helmet.
Who is it
Duke

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#52 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 12:13

If you mean the first to use a full face helmet, a Bell Star, it was Dan Gurney from memory.

#53 David M. Kane

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 13:50

Yep, it was Dan Gurney. Dan was first to introduce a lot of things. Like bringing Chapman and Clark to Indy, etc.

#54 Don Capps

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 15:46

Actually Swede Savage used it first in four-wheeled racing in 1967 in a USAC event, I think. Gurney wore his at Mosport which is the first time it actually got a lot of attention. There is an article in a recent Motor Sport on the BellStar. The visors did not become made of Lexan or similar materials until after the Helmut Marko incident at Clermont-Ferrand in 1972.

#55 OPA

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 16:58

Ten points for the one who knows who was the LAST to use the traditional open helmet/goggles combination(in F1)

#56 tombe

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 17:20

Leo Kinnunen.

Tom

#57 Dave Ware

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 18:52

Rindt.

#58 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 18:59

I'd say Jack Brabham. Rindt used both types of helmet in his last season.

As a matter of fact, Jochen was the first to offer advertisers space on his full face helmet, (although tongue in cheek) when he had a sticker attached to the side of the helmet proclaiming. "This Space to Let."

Gil Bouffard

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#59 david_martin

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 19:16

Originally posted by tombe
Leo Kinnunen.

Tom


Spot on. The photo (from Forix) was taken in practice at the 1974 British GP, but his only start was at Andersdorp in the same year.

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[p][Edited by david_martin on 01-30-2001]

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#60 Dave Ware

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 19:23

Damn, I thought I had those ten points wrapped up...

Ok, which non-F1 but still very successful and well-known driver continued to drive with an open face helment and bare hands as late as 1972?

Dave

#61 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 22:17



"Ok, which non-F1 but still very successful and well-known driver continued to drive with an open face helment and bare
hands as late as 1972."

Richard.

#62 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 22:21

My guess would be A J Foyt... purely a guess.

#63 Dave Ware

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Posted 30 January 2001 - 22:24

Gil, do you mean Richard Petty? If he did, I wasn't aware of it. I was thinking of a road racer.

D.

#64 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 31 January 2001 - 03:28

WWwwweeeeellllll, you didn't say road racer....Looks like Ray and I are on the wrong track..

Gil

#65 Dave Ware

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Posted 31 January 2001 - 22:40

That's true, I didn't say road racer. I may have thrown you off the scent also by saying "non-F1 driver" since Frank Gardner did drive an F1 car on occasion. Anyway, in his Racing Driver's Manual, he talks about safety equipment and tells the reader, do as I say, not as I do, since at that time he was still driving bare fisted.

I'll award points to both of your. See Mike Argensinger to collect your prizes.

Dave

#66 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2001 - 23:53

Sure old Frank looked odd in the F5000s in his open faced helmet, should have remembered him anyway.

#67 Eagle104

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 19:51

Originally posted by Don Capps
Actually Swede Savage used it first in four-wheeled racing in 1967 in a USAC event, I think. Gurney wore his at Mosport which is the first time it actually got a lot of attention.


It was Dan Gurney at Indianapolis in 1968. Dan actually did not wear the full-faced until race day. He spent the "month" of May in his traditional bill-visored Bell. Dan did wear it in Canada, but that was after the 500.
I can't think of a USAC event that Swede Savage drove in anytime before '69 or '70. He did race Can-Am for AAR, but I think that was in '69.

Eagle104

#68 Don Capps

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 22:42

What threw me was all the pictures of Gurney during practice are of him in the open-face helmet. I just looked for and found a picture of him on race day in action -- with the full-face helmet.

I am still trying to pin down the exact race in which Savage wore the BellStar in 1967. Originally I thought it was the USAC Riverside race, but think it was a sports car event. Not Can-Am or USRRC, but something on the West Coast.

#69 Eagle104

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Posted 04 February 2001 - 00:10

With all due respect, Don, I don't think you're going to find it because I don't think Bell came out with that helmet until '68. And, I really don't think Swede was in sportscars in '67...but I'm really not certain, either. I'll be glad to learn otherwise, though.

#70 Don Capps

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Posted 04 February 2001 - 01:48

Keith Howard stated Savage wore one in 1967 and I have no reason to doubt him, since the helmet was in use at Ascot in the Fall of 1967. And, Swede was a bike rider and apprently used it in one of his early races.

#71 David McKinney

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Posted 14 February 2001 - 21:47

The March issue of MotorSport has a letter from John B Dimmer supporting the Gurney claim. Keith Howard says in a footnote that his statement that Swede Savage was the first has been questioned by Dan and Evi Gurney

#72 jarama

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Posted 14 February 2001 - 23:15

The french magazine "Sport-Auto", July '68 issue, covering the Indy 500, includes a picture of Dan Gurney showing his new helmet. The caption says: "Dan Gurney étrennait le nouveau casque Bell qui enclos entièrement la tête, comme un scaphandre." Seems as it was the first time that this kind of helmet was used by a racing driver.

#73 FLB

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Posted 14 February 2001 - 23:55

Originally posted by Gil Bouffard


"Ok, which non-F1 but still very successful and well-known driver continued to drive with an open face helment and bare
hands as late as 1972."

Richard.


As far as I know, King Richard never wore gloves during his entire career up to 1992.

Dale Earnhardt, Sr. still wears an open face helmet.

#74 tyrrellp34

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Posted 08 April 2001 - 10:45

Do you know what is really shown on Depailler's helmet?

#75 AD

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Posted 08 April 2001 - 18:47

The most beautiful helmets I've seen are;

1. The Hills helmet designs
2. Michael Schumachers red helmet for this year
3. Ayrton Sennas helmets

#76 pancho

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Posted 09 April 2001 - 19:41

My vote goes to Gary C's Ronnie Peterson tribute lid in yellow and blue! Of the slightly better known pilots, I'd have to go for the late Greg Moore, Paul Tracy or Perry McCarthy's 'inverted' Gilles Villeneuve design.

#77 Gary C

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 01:52

Ha! Thank you for the vote Pancho!
I've always had a sneaking liking for Eddie Cheevers' lid design.
Of course, you knew where both Mansell & Senna were coming from with their designs. But, Ronnie Peterson's is my fave; plain & simple, the national colours, not too busy, you could tell who it was a mile off.

#78 FLB

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 02:18

I agree Gary, I find a simple design is often more attractive.

EX: Open face, dark blue with a white peak... :)

#79 Gary C

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 02:19

Well, we all know who that is, don't we?
See, the national colours again.......

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#80 pancho

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 07:20

Originally posted by FLB
I agree Gary, I find a simple design is often more attractive.

EX: Open face, dark blue with a white peak... :)


FLB,

How about Francois Cevert? His striking colour combination was actually quite innovative during his day. The guy had style down to the last detail.

#81 Gary Grant

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 07:40

Fully agree pancho....
Posted Image

Though I would also like to add a vote for Ignazio Giunti's Aztec design and Kenny Brack's current lid (I just like the colours)...

#82 Jim Thurman

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 08:04

My vote goes to Phillipe Etancelin:lol:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mike Spence. Very distinctive, especially for the time


Jim Thurman

#83 Silent Bob

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 14:31

I'll add another vote for Eddie Cheever and Nelson Piquet - always favourites of mine.

Chris


#84 jk

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 16:42

Look at this picture http://www.isanski.f...ve.co.uk/gh.htm
Grahams helmet is dark blue.

#85 BRG

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 16:51

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned Henri Pescarolo. His plain puke-green helmet may not be gorgeous, but it is very distinctive. I have always been crap at identifying drivers by their helmet colours but I could always tell Henri (well the scream of the Matra V12 helped as well!! :D )

#86 David M. Kane

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Posted 10 April 2001 - 20:35

I always liked Peter Revson's lid, he was thet first bring
in the "California look" with his pearl white base with metallic
blue and red. Simple, but a little sutle spice.

#87 Mohican

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 13:23

Here's a new subject for you: the rise of the personalised helmet design. Who was first (Graham Hill ?), and whose is/was the best looking/most easily recognised/best integrated in car's colour scheme (or not), etc, etc ?

Personal colours (Fangio, Gurney, etc) is too easy, there has to be a design element.

Some of my personal favourites:

Rodriguez (silver and black, showing open-face design), Peterson (blue and yellow), Stewart (white and tartan), de Angelis/Alesi, Stuck, Michael Andretti, Diniz - to take just a few.

#88 Gary Davies

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 14:13

Le premier? Mais, Behra, naturellement! Then maybe Musso with his Italy shield design on the front.

Early distinctive? Hawthorn's wraparound visor (if you could take your eyes off the bow tie.)

My favourite? There was always something of le pur sang about the dark blue helmet with the white peak in the small green Lotus with the yellow stripe, usually leading and going away.

Vanwall.

#89 cjpani

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 14:49

Mohican, welcome aboard. Mexican by any chance??

As contrary to many´s beliefs, Pedro Rodriguez´s helmet wasn´t silver and black ( not to mention he also had full face helmet) but the actual colors were light lead and dark lead (plomo)

Best regards
cjpani

#90 Gary Grant

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 14:57

Mohican,
Welcome to the Bulletin Boards.
Diniz' helmet was actually copied from that of Carlos Pace - but I'd agree on Peterson's being distinctive/good looking.

Others I'd say were good looking helmets are:-
Wilson and Christian Fittipaldi
Kenny Brack (similar to Peterson's)
Francois Cevert (my favourite helmet design - and driver - of all time)
Ignazio Giunti
and Innes Ireland/Chris Bristow's chequered flag effort.

Some of todays's ones like Schumacher's and Irvines are v well integrated into the car design, though there was a nice contrast betwween Bruce McLaren's silver lid and orange car.

Most easily recognised? Has to be the Hills or Senna.

#91 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 15:24

Distinctive to me? While Don Capps is away.. Harry Schell's USA emblem on a white background. von Trips Scuderia Colonia emblem which he only used during that fateful 1961 season. I don't remember Musso having anything other than a yellow helmet with the Italian flag on either side.

Remember, Graham Hill's helmet showed his allegiance to the London Rowing Club, of which he was a member. He and later Damon received approval to use the club's design on their helmets. Back in the early 80's there was a German F-3 racer who had his helmet painted similar to Hill's. Except he only had B/W photos to go by, so instead of London Rowing Club Blue, His was black and white.

In the early days, Jim Clark's Herbert Johnson jet pilot helmet had a gold colored peak.

One of the OLD Brits can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the Herbert Johnson only came in Brown or White.

Re; Michael Andretti and Mario. The original design was based on Indycar sponsor Viceroy cigarettes. Mario continued to use the basic design after Viceroy left and Michael and brother Jeff picked up on the design. The latest iteration (US Flag) on Michael's hat was a "design by committee," when he was preparing to go to McLaren. The Ford guys are responsible for the flag design.

Got another one for you. Chris Amon's helmet design came about as a result of the movie Grand Prix. Amon played the James Garner character during the filming of the actual racing sequences.

His Gilness

#92 Keir

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 19:29

:cool:
The Amon helmet design origin is still one for discussion, and Bruce McLaren wore the helmet in selected GP's that year, not Chris.
Never-the-less, his helmet is one of the more distinctive.

BUT!!! Most distinctive, Ignazio Giunti, Hands down!!!

#93 Jonathan Merry

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 20:54

How about Piquet's helmet, that was pretty distinctive and Gilles Villeneuve had lovely aggressive lid - unfortunately I can't say the same about Jacques helmet which is an abomination.... pink, blue, yellow, green, red...still, it does stand out from most of the modern F1 drivers helmets which are now so cluttered with advertising that the general design of the helmet is totaly lost. Alesi's silver helmet is one of the better modern helmets. A return to the solid colours of 40 years ago would be a great improvement IMO. :)

#94 William Dale Jr

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Posted 15 May 2001 - 21:49

While were on Alesi's helmet, his colours were based on Elio de Angelis' helmet, Alesi's addition being the blue patch on the top and, later on, the chrome job.

#95 Chris Skepis

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 04:26

Chris Amon wore his white with red and blue straps accutually in 1966 at Reims ( French GP ) before "Grand Prix" was released.
I'm not sure but I think he also wore it at Le Mans. But for sure he didn't pick it up after the film release. Mike Spence wore the same helmet at Zandvoort 1966. ( and drove a Lotus painted exactely like the white and black McLaren )In 1967 Spence still sported the red and blue patterns over his yellow sunburst helmet
There's a picture of him at Retro site that you can cleary see this helmet. Another beautiful helmet was Amon's 64/65 red with
the checkered pattern along in the midle. Another one fully integrated to the team was Ricardo Rodriguez yellow with black leather sides and the Ferrari logo.

#96 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 06:22

Gil, Luigi Musso only started wearing a yellow helmet towards the end of his career. When driving for Maserati his helmet was white with a red Maserati trident on the front. Also, I'm sure you are correct about those early helmets being only white or brown, but then anyone could take a tin of paint to them, e.g. Gonzales/yellow, but so few of them did. Very boring for the modeller!

I'm amazed to hear these 'leady' colours being quoted about Pedro. I thought it was simply silver and light blue!

Nowadays on the whole, I find helmets rather too fussy.

#97 Mohican

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 10:14

We all know that Alesi's helmet design was inspired by that of Elio de Angelis, and that poor Alboreto picked his colour scheme from Ronnie Peterson (how about that for tragic irony ?).

What about drivers changing their design mid-career ?
Scumacher and Irvine last year, Berger when at Benetton in the 80's, Barrichello a few times already.

Speaking of Irvine, who today remembers Senna trying to punch Irvine at Suzuka in '93 ? Shades of Schumacher trying to punch Coulthard at Spa in ´98, or Piquet kicking Salazar at Hockenheim in '82. But I digress...

#98 Keir

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 11:15

:confused:
Chris,
You wouldn't be an Amon fans, would you?? :lol:

#99 LittleChris

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 11:15

Bit ironic the Irvine / Senna punch up in the context of this thread, since Eddie's helmet at the time was based on Ayrtons, but mainly oragne rather than yellow !!


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#100 Chris Skepis

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 15:32

Well Keir, I've got to say that along with Pete Aron and David Bowie, Chris Amon is one of my all time heros These are the three Gods I worship :) :)