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The Denis Debois memorial helmet thread (merged)


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#101 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 21:38

Well I know all the teams that Chris Amon drove for; and I know Pete Aron drove for Jordan BRM and then Yamura, but who did David Bowie drive for? :D

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#102 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 22:05

The interesting thing about many helmet designs today, are how many use the person's national colour or their family background.

David Coulthard: Scotland

Dario Franchitti: Scotland/Italy

Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button: Great Britian

Eddie Irvine: British Racing Green

Hans Harald Frentzen, Ralf and Michael Schumacher, Nick Heidfeld Germany

Juan Pablo Montoya: Colombia

Jos Verstappen: Netherlands

Eddie Cheever: Arizona.

Upon review, I think there are at least four drivers who haven't worked their nationality into their helmet design. Rubens Barrichello, Jacques Villeneuve, Gaston Mazzacane and Giancarlo Fisichella.

Most NASCAR and Indy (CART or IRL) color their helmets according to the sponsor's wishes. No personal hats there.

Gil:confused:

#103 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 22:10

Barry:
Bowie didn't drive; under a pseudonym he was a team owner, running Porsches sponsored by a well-known confectionery company: haven't you heard of Ziggy Stardust and the Spyders from Mars?:lol: :lol: :stoned:

#104 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 22:28

:lol: :drunk: :lol: :drunk: :rolleyes:

#105 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 May 2001 - 22:40

Sorry Barry, couldn't resist that one!!!:lol: :lol: :stoned:

#106 Chris Skepis

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Posted 17 May 2001 - 00:41

David Bowie and his team "The Spiders From Mars" used to to race UFOs :p :p

#107 Keir

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Posted 17 May 2001 - 01:16

:cool:
Never the less, Chris, good heros all around!!

:smoking: :smoking: :smoking:

#108 Chris Skepis

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Posted 17 May 2001 - 04:00

Does anybody knows why Trevor Taylor was so obsessed with yellow ?

#109 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 May 2001 - 06:10

Just a guess; because nobody else was!

#110 pancho

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Posted 18 May 2001 - 22:17

What about the ultimate personalised helmet? Does anybody remember Jack Brabhams Fighter-pilot style lid from '69/'70? I recall it came complete with earphone-style bulges at the side - like he had a couple of deep-pan pizzas welded on! Hey, maybe this links nicely to the 'Jack Brabham Aircraft question' thread as well. Seriously, though, could this have facilitated the first known car-to-pits radio system? p.s. I apologise for the over-zealous use of the '-' symbol in this post!:drunk:

#111 SB

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Posted 19 May 2001 - 00:38

Originally posted by LittleChris
Bit ironic the Irvine / Senna punch up in the context of this thread, since Eddie's helmet at the time was based on Ayrtons, but mainly oragne rather than yellow !!


I've a photo of Irvine who raced in the 1989 Macau F3 race. His helmet was yellow in fact ! I think he changed to orange later on.

SB


#112 Barry Lake

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Posted 19 May 2001 - 05:14

Pancho

Car to pit radios go way back to the 1930s (with the commentary between the two being broadcast live over national radio in the late 1930s) - although the first really successful use was much later, of course.

Regarding Jack Brabham's helmets, I think if there was a competition for the most different TYPES of helmet worn by a driver, Jack would win it hands down.

He wore the silver with black stripe type for quite some time, but he seems to have tried so many different types it is amazing. Even in his speedway days, he had a few different types.

Although it has intriqued me for years, I have never remembered to ask him why. I used to think it was because he was always losing them, or forgetting to take them to the races.



#113 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 19 May 2001 - 08:59

Can anyone tell me the significance of the leaves (if that's what they are) on Stefan Johansson's helmet. Someone told me there was a special reason for them being there, or perhaps it was the number of them, but I've forgotten what it is.

#114 Chris Skepis

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Posted 19 May 2001 - 18:28

Stefan Johansson's nickname is Lief which means leave (or leaves)
in swedish.

#115 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 19 May 2001 - 18:30

Pancho,

Brabham's "Fighter Pilot Style," helmet was exactly that. It even had the fastenings for the oxygen mask.

Milan,

Stefan Johansson's helmet design indicates his nickname "Little Leaf," whatever that means. I think it has to do with his being skinny.

Gil

#116 LittleChris

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Posted 21 May 2001 - 22:37

Wasn't Stefan known as Little Leaf ( Lil Lowis ?!? ) because his father was called Big Lief ?

#117 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 May 2001 - 06:02

That explanation rings a bell with me, too.

#118 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 22 May 2001 - 16:29

Well, a couple of notes on the Rodríguez helmets.
Ricardo's also had the mexican flag (looks like the italian with an eagle in the white) in the sides above the leather, but he actually died using a new one he had just bought for the Mexican GP (another first), it was silver (metallic) and didn't have the paint job yet, nor the Ferrari logo. originally his helmet was white and it changed around 1960 Sebring.
Pedro was actually lead specified as a colour although some people will swear silver and blue. The story is quite interesting. Pedro used to do weightlifting so he had a very heavy hand, and friends would sometimes call him "lead" (others say it was because he wasn't funny at all unlike Ricardo but that is an apocriphal story). When he chose his design he wanted something interesting and he liked a lot grey colours like Oxford grey which would be the dark lead and as a contrats would have the ligt grey or lead. They were special paints he brought from France, somebody mixed them there for him and specially the dark lead would have a bit of metallic stuff so it would glow when the light hit it and it seemed like bluish (remember your high school physics lessons). The guy who painted them was an old man here in Mexico city and Pedro would bring the paint over every year at the end and change his helmet. When the new full face helmets appeared in 1969 and he got his from Bell, he decided to follow the line along the contour of the opening to the bottom and to the back so it would met the central line, and also continued the central line to the portion below his mouth and painted the Rodriguez words in the sides. I think the blue stripe was a bit more like John Surtees and a lot of people confuse them when they see a B&W picture of them in the 250 P, etc to P2/P3/P4 spyders. Actually even Doug Nye confused Peter Westbury with Pedro in a photo for his book on the USGP (yes it is true, a mistake by Nye).;)

On the other hand I like Peter Revson's, the one that has wings, nice like the Giunti one. And although Zonta's is not that nice in colour, it is also distinctive. And who was it who changed the direction of the arrow? Wasn't it Pace and when it pointed to the front his results got better? Also Daly must have copied him besides Pedro Diniz, and Daly isn't even brazilian. A pity nowadays helmets change according to sponsors tastes like even Gil de Ferran (when with Pennzoil it was yellow). Now everyone has three sections so they can put the logos for the sponsors between the top and middle and middle and bottom. Ugly really. There was aso a mexican guy, Marco Tolama who is now our Murray Walker, who had a Chris Amon hemet style but with green instead of blue and in the pictures in B&W I always ended wondering, if Amon ran in Atlantic in 1976 and never got the answer until I visited this guy's office and saw a full colour photo and then I discovered who it really was. Maybe this belongs in another thread.

#119 cjpani

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Posted 22 May 2001 - 17:11

Originally posted by Carlos Jalife
There was aso a mexican guy, Marco Tolama who is now our Murray Walker...


Sacrilege!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Nice info on the brother´s helmet´s thanks:up:

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#120 Gary C

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Posted 24 May 2001 - 20:05

well, the ultimate for me is Ronnie Petersons'. It's his national colours, and the design is nice & simple so it was easy to spot.
Who remembers that lid that Berger wore as a one-off at Benetton? It was the the result of a competition.
It had all the flags of the world (well, some of them!) on it! (United Colours of The World???)

#121 Racer.Demon

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Posted 24 May 2001 - 22:24

Originally posted by Jonathan Merry
How about Piquet's helmet, that was pretty distinctive and Gilles Villeneuve had lovely aggressive lid - unfortunately I can't say the same about Jacques helmet which is an abomination.... pink, blue, yellow, green, red...still, it does stand out from most of the modern F1 drivers helmets which are now so cluttered with advertising that the general design of the helmet is totaly lost. Alesi's silver helmet is one of the better modern helmets. A return to the solid colours of 40 years ago would be a great improvement IMO. :)


If you think some modern race drivers' helmets have loud designs, then try to compare them with what GP bikers are wearing today... It's like graffiti on two wheels!


#122 Rob29

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 11:22

Just noticed this on TV listings for next week.Wednesday 26th Sept.6.30AM-TCM channel. This movie was made in 1961 and I seem to remember some scenes which may interest nostalgia fans.

#123 Kpy

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 11:41

Is that the one with James Robertson Justice, Anthony Steel and the Astons in a Mille Miglia sort of race ?
If so it's well worth a watch (and the occasional laugh too).
I haven't seen Driven, but think this is rather better.;);)

#124 David McKinney

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 14:49

No, KPY, that was Checkpoint
Can't really remember The Green Helmet - I did see it, but it's mixed up in my mind with the other. I think they both had Mille Miglia (type) themes

#125 Kpy

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 15:39

Originally posted by David McKinney
No, KPY, that was Checkpoint


David - how right you are. Old men forget.

Let me know about Green Helmet, don't think I've seen it.

#126 Viktor

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 15:55

I have not seen the film but I did a search at Google and found this link to Blockbuster.com, not much info but some. Also did a search on Internet Movie Database and found this. Hope it helps you.

/Viktor

#127 LittleChris

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 16:21

I seem to rmember that it IS based around the Mille Miglia. There are some scenes shot at Silverstone early on in the film IIRC.

#128 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 18:15

My Mum took me to see that film in about nineteen hundred and freezing-to-death or maybe nineteen hundred and pouring-with-rain. It is about a guy who builds a car to challenge to major sports car manyfacturers. As I recall, there are 2 cars in his team and Sid James is a riding mechanic!

I have never seen the film since that visit to the cinema. Thanks for alerting us to it, Rob.

But 6.30 A.M.........:eek:

#129 Dave Ware

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Posted 18 September 2001 - 18:31

I saw the film a few months ago and enjoyed it greatly. Not 100% accurate, of course. Some good old cars, circuits, and scenes. I would gladly watch it again, and would recommend it.

Dave

#130 ry6

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Posted 21 September 2001 - 18:30

The book on which the film is based was written by John Cleary I think.
I read it about 30 years ago.
I saw the film too, about 30 years ago.

I will try to find that book again at a library it would be nice to read now.

The car the hero drives was either a Lister-Jag or a Tojiero-Jag and
I think it go accidentally smashed in the film.

#131 David McKinney

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Posted 21 September 2001 - 18:55

At least one of the Launders was a Costin-bodied Lister-Jag (there may have been others). IIRC, Steve Ouvaroff crashed it during filming in the Welsh mountains, so the script was changed to fit the sequence in.

#132 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 September 2001 - 07:03

David - thanks for the info regarding the Welsh mountains. I had no idea that some of the film was shot there. Living as I do, within sight of Snowdonia, it makes me even more excited to see the film again, given that I may well know the roads on which the cars are 'racing'.

#133 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 September 2001 - 15:11

Posted Image

This shows the crash that David refers to the "Launder" (Lister-Jaguar) was being driven by Steve Ouvaroff on the road from the Llanberris pass to Pen y Gwrhyd. Apparantly the clutch failed. In the foreground, left to right, are director Mike Furlong, Steve Ouvaroff, actor joe Wadham (in car), and the car's owner John Coundley. It can be seen that the driver and his passenger were very lucky that the car stopped when it did.

The following is fromautospport's review of the film.

greg Rafferty (Bill Travers) is a topline racing driver whose nerves are not what they used to be. After three shunts (the final one at Le Mans) he plays with the idea of retiring. his team has withdrawn from racing and he is without a drive. however, an americal tyre tycoon, Bartell (Ed Begley) offers him $25,000 if he will race on his tyres. Rafferty toys undecidedly with this morsel and then gets a peak at the dessert, which is in the shape of the tycoon's dughter diane (Nancy Walters), and, why, there we are indeed!

Having the choice of car, Rafferty decides to use one developed by hi old mechanic, Richie (Sid James). Whilst under test at Silverstone, one tyre suffers a blow-out and the car srashes. Nothing daunted, Rafferty goes to New York with Bartell and his daughter, where he is informed that he is to drive a Birdcage Maserati at Sebring with none other than Jack Brabham.

Bartell's tyres prove to be no good and after chagning to another make during the race, Greg and Jack go on to win. The Bartell tyres are sorted out and they move to Italy (or perhaps, Snowdonia) for Gregg's next race, the Mille Miglia. Driving Richie's car with the latter as passenger, Greg stops by the roadside to look at the memorial to his father, killed in the race some years previously.On another run the car hits a patch of oil, goes out of control and crashes heavily. Richie is thrown out and killed.

Greg decides against withdrawing from the race, and his young brother Taz, (named after, guess who?) offers to accompany him. They win the race and Greg decided to give up the fast curves of te racetrack for those of Diane Bartell (a pretty sound decision!) thus paving the way for young Taz to go racing.

#134 Barry Boor

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Posted 26 September 2001 - 22:13

Well, did anyone else see it?

I did - or at least, about two-thirds of it. I would have seen it all, if my video had switched on as programmed the night before. And before you say it - yes, I DID program it correctly. It's been playing up now and again, and chose this very moment to do it again. I got up at 6.50, saw the video wasn't recording and started it manually.

I watched the hour that was left while eating my tea tonight. I'm sure the film I saw all those years ago was MUCH better than that. I've seen better acting in a junior school nativity play.

The redeeming feature was Sebring. Some great shots of the Birdcages, especially the #23 car, which looked as though it was being driven by Moss and Gurney. Jack Brabham's acting was as good as anybody's. And boy was that ever a narrow track in places!

I loved the concept that a Chevrolet Corvette could race with a Birdcage Maser. :eek:

I did recognise some of Snowdonia in the Mille Miglia shots. I wish they still ran the Mille Miglia through Snowdonia.

I'd love to see the spring mechanism that fired the Sid James dummy out of the car during the crash.

All in all, it was a pretty poor film and in some ways I wish I had left it as just a memory. We are just SO suffistekayted these days, aren't we?

#135 Bumblyari

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Posted 26 September 2001 - 23:42

Barry - if you want to watch your missing 20 minutes it's on again on Saturday morning, same time.

#136 Dave Ware

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Posted 26 September 2001 - 23:58

>>I'm sure the film I saw all those years ago was MUCH better than that. I've seen better acting in a junior school nativity play.

Perhaps this is the difference between youth and middle-age. I was pretty young when I manuvered my father into taking me to Le Mans, and I saw it again in '75 or '76, and possibly not since then, until a couple of years ago. The film lived large in my memory as a great piece of filmmaking...then when I sat my wife down to watch this great masterpiece with me, I was surprised to say the least.

I've long since given up looking for a good racing film. I'm grateful for anything I can get, and am mostly willing to overlook the various flaws that exist in the films we have.

You know, any of us, or the bunch of us together, could indeed make a great racing film...

Dave

#137 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 September 2001 - 12:27

My VCR worked properly this morning so now I have seen the bit I missed on Wednesday.

In some ways, I wish I hadn't bothered.

It went something like this:

Opening credits shown over the start of a Le Mans 24 hour race. An early to middle 50's one because there were Cunninghams at the head of the line. Various interspersed bits of Le Mans footage from several years - including a shot of a Birdcage Maser. Mixed in are shots of a driver in a mid grey (black & white film, remember) crash hat, with visor steering a plain D-type Jaguar wearing #3, around Silverstone. Various cockpit shots of 'same' driver. Cut in shots of white helmeted driver (Ron Flockhart?) driving #3 Jaguar, but with Ecurie Ecosse markings on nose, around Le Mans. Repeat above for a few minutes, including night shots and pit stops, (no sign of plombeurs) before said #3 Jaguar mysteriously becomes a totally different car which catches a kerb on the inside of the right-hander at......Eau Rouge :eek: whereupon it flips upside down!!!

I plan to have another look to try to identify the crasher at Spa, if, that is, no-one beats me to it.

As I said earlier, in some ways the memory was better left as just that....... a memory.

#138 Gary Davies

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Posted 24 November 2001 - 17:58

Erm, I seem to be going through a phase of being fixated with crash helmets but why did Bruce McLaren wear Chris Amon's crash hat during part of 1966?

Was it perhaps to do with the filming of "Grand Prix"?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Vanwall

#139 Wolf

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Posted 24 November 2001 - 18:09

Vanwall- IIRC, it was Pete Aaron's colour sheme (inverted Amon colours)... I have dug out the thread in which it was discussed: Two Quickies Thread.

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#140 Gary Davies

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Posted 24 November 2001 - 18:39

Ah, thanks Wolf. I missed the inverted bit.

V

#141 Keir

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Posted 25 November 2001 - 00:52

Strangely enough, Chris was supposed to drive far more races than he did in '66, that's the reason for Bruce wearing the Amonized lid. In the actual filming, Chris wore a light blue helmet when he wasn't driving the GT40 camera car.

#142 Chris Bloom

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Posted 25 November 2001 - 04:51

I'd presume it was to do with the filming of Grand Prix:smoking:

Chris

#143 William Dale Jr

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Posted 26 November 2001 - 06:36

Yeah, Bruce was wearing the colours for the filming of Grand Prix, but I'm pretty sure that Amon adopted the helmet colours afterwards, and that they were reversed.

For further information, visit the "Favourite Amon Stories" thread, I'm pretty sure this was covered in there, and it's a pretty good read, too :)

#144 ensign14

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Posted 23 December 2001 - 23:22

Something which has been bugging me since 1983 - can anyone please tell me what the design is on Jean-Louis Schlesser's helmet?

#145 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 24 December 2001 - 19:16

Almost like Graham Hill's in reverse - (I wonder if that's deliberate?)

Mostly white with what looks like black or dark green dashes at the top a la Hill. I tried to find a link but without success. Maybe F1 reject's site has a helmet design? They sometimes do. Or Forix? Still, Graham & Damon Hill in reverse is still the best description I can come up with

#146 ensign14

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Posted 24 December 2001 - 23:28

There's a good pic a F1 Rejects here f1rejects.crosswinds.net/drivers/schlesser/index.html. It doesn't show the bottom part, at the back, which makes it look a bit like a keyhole, or a chess pawn. Sorry about the description, I don't know of any other photos.

#147 Kuwashima

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Posted 25 December 2001 - 13:36

Let's see if we can help...!

Posted Image Posted Image

OK pic of JLS in the infamous 88 Italian GP on the left, clearly showing the design from the top. Now I do believe that text in French on the right is an explanation of Schlesser's helmet design... so can someone who knows/speaks French help out please?

Something about a southern cross??

#148 Toine

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Posted 25 December 2001 - 13:52

Hi Kuwashima

"Croix du Sud" would be a christian cross designed by the Touaregs (nomad tribes) in North Africa. I bought one in the Sahara desert when i was 15 y old but i lost it.
http://www.raken.com...rs/g/BJC173.jpg

And apparently JLS was born in Morocco, so the helmet design should refeir to that cross i think.

C U

Toine

#149 scheivlak

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Posted 25 December 2001 - 14:23

'Croix du Sud' literally means Southern Cross (crux australis), a star constellation that cannot be seen in Europe, but for centuries guided seamen across the southern hemisphere. Can it already be recognised in Morocco? Or do we have to interpret his helmet design more metaphorically as "I come from the south"?

scheivlak

#150 Toine

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Posted 25 December 2001 - 14:33

Hi Scheivlak

You are right but i think it might be more the cross i think about since he was born in Morocco... maybe he was born in the Sahara desert, around Touareg Tribes...:)

C U

Toine