95 replies to this topic

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by SEdward
I always felt that Mike's ability as a car driver was underestimated. I thought that we was damned good. He should have won the 1973 International Trophy, he was the only driver to get anywhere near Fittipaldi in F2 in 1972 and he put in some fine drives in the M23 in 1974 before his accident.

Edward

You may well be right, sadly, I never went abroad early (too sensible like!!). Man I wish I had took the blinkers off a little earlier, never mind, we all have to grow up in our own way...........

Nothing new under Sun!! :

[subh]

Has anyone mentioned Aaron Slight, who has done some touring car and ASCAR racing? I also recall John Reynolds doing the odd car race.

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, Aaron Slight has been mentioned...

As for Mike the Bike vs Jochen the winged wonder... they were different meetings, 275 GTB-4. Different formulae, different years, different conditions.

The thing that grabbed me about him was going down through the gears one at a time, but in very quick succession, from Creek Corner...

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The thing that grabbed me about him was going down through the gears one at a time, but in very quick succession, from Creek Corner...

Yep, something Motorcycle riders learn to do as second nature........usually with a snick here and a couple of fingers there ...........ahhhhhh nostalgia..........great ain't it!!!

[Ray Bell]

Hmmm... 'from' Creek Corner?

'For' Creek Corner, obviously. '71 Tasman meeting. FJ drove the same car two months earlier... without the exciting gearchanges.

Wasn't he also a motorcyclist in an earlier life?

[paulhooft]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by paulhooft
And the greatest of all was someone called:


Tazio Nuvolari????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



...back at the top of the first page we find...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MPea3 to start this thread
.....From Europe and the UK I can think of John Surtees, Bernd Rosemayer, and Tazio Numvolari.....
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as long as he is on the FIRST page is is no problem to me..
(sorry, I simply look right over first page???
must be my eyes are getting worse)
Paul

[tom1971]

another one - Benoit Musy from Switzerland , succesful on Bikes and cars in the 50s.
Unfortunatly he died in a Sportscar Race at Montlhery in 1956

[john medley]

Car -and-motorcycle racer Mike Hailwood spoke very highly of car-and-motorcycle racer Bill Ivy

[ratmac]

former cart irl score racer now turned nascar hillbilly robbie gordon

[tom1971]

Dieter Quester - Bike races from 1963- 1965 , started his Motorsport career with Motorboats
(European Champion 1958 and 1962

[Duncan Fox]

South African Paddy Driver (great name!) should get a mention here. He was the S.A. 500cc champion in 1962 and 3rd in the world 500cc championship in 1965. He went on to become the S.A. F5000 champ in both 71 and 73 and runner up in 72. He also did well rallying and off-road racing with co- drivers including the likes of our own late great Denny Hulme....

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
As for Mike the Bike vs Jochen the winged wonder... they were different meetings, 275 GTB-4. Different formulae, different years, different conditions.

Let me try that again,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Nor could you say Mike Hailwood wasn't successful...
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At a particular Tasman Meeting at Warwick Farm, I was in absolute awe of Jochen Rindt the rainmeister, however, at another, Mike the Bike was wringing the neck of his Surtees? Full lock every time around, but maintaining the racing line and so consistent.....I suppose it was either his approach or the shortcomings of the car compared to Rindt's well sorted Lotus??

Rindt showed mastery........Hailwood showed a racers guts and determination... magic, magic stuff...........me???? I was just transfixed!!!

[gerrit stevens]

Did someone mention Scottish bon Jeff Ward, third at Indy 1997 and former motocross champion (I thought stadium crosses).

Gerrit Stevens

[917]

Edgar Barth, who competed in hillclimbs in the 1950s on two as well as on four wheels and told once a journalist that this was not always easy as the racing line and braking points are different.

[LittleChris]

Originally posted by SEdward
Turning things around, what about car drivers who switched to bikes? I can't think of any at all.

Edward.

Ian Ashley ? Darren Galpin interviewed him a while ago.

[Hugo Boecker]

There was also Marcel Masuy a Belgian who raced BMW and Veritas cars in the early 50's as well as motorbikes. He raced BMW in the 1950 and a Norton sidecar in the 1951/2/3 World-Championship. His passenger in 1950/1 was DENNIS JENKINSON !
see: http://www.chez.com/...TO_SOMMAIRE.htm

so long
Hugo Boecker

[Michael Oliver]

ISTR that Eric Offenstadt did both, although I cannot remember which he did first...I'm sure somebody will be able to help me out here!

[fines]

Not really greats on two wheels, and certainly less so on four, but lately I stumbled about the names of Christian Estrosi and Jean-Louis Tournadre in Formula 3 reports of the mid-eighties - I'd completely forgotten they'd turned to cars!

The infamous almost-European Champion H. P. Müller, of course, raced bikes after cars - although he raced the twos before the fours also!

[Hugo Boecker]

Originally posted by fines

The infamous almost-European Champion H. P. Müller, of course, raced bikes after cars - although he raced the twos before the fours also!

and according to the Goldenage pages
[URL=http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/main.htm/URL]
he is besides John Surtees the only one who became champion on 2 and 4 wheels ( just the other way round than Big John)

so long

Hugo Boecker

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
ISTR that Eric Offenstadt did both, although I cannot remember which he did first...I'm sure somebody will be able to help me out here!

He began on two wheels, after that, cars, and finished his career on two wheels again!

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
ISTR that Eric Offenstadt did both, although I cannot remember which he did first...I'm sure somebody will be able to help me out here!

He began and finished his career on two wheels.

[gerrit stevens]

Originally posted by Hugo Boecker


and according to the Goldenage pages
[URL=http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/main.htm/URL]
he is besides John Surtees the only one who became champion on 2 and 4 wheels ( just the other way round than Big John)

so long

Hugo Boecker

You are forgetting Joe Leonard.
Grand National Champion 1954, 1956 and 1957.
USAC National Champion 1971 and 1972.

Multiple champion in both disciplines. If that isn't something.


Gerrit Stevens

[philippe7]

Originally posted by fines
Not really greats on two wheels, and certainly less so on four, but lately I stumbled about the names of Christian Estrosi and Jean-Louis Tournadre in Formula 3 reports of the mid-eighties - I'd completely forgotten they'd turned to cars!

Tournadre was 250cc World Champion .....so not "great" , but good enough.....he went back to 2 wheels after a non-sucessful car career, ( like Hailwood and Offenstadt) but did not do well .

I do not recall Estrosi going 4 wheels.....he is now a leading member ( MP, head of a region etc...) of the Gaullist party, but still humble enough to take part in the occasional historic bike meeting ( like last May for the Coupes Moto Légende in Dijon, where he rode his 750 OW31 Yamaha in efficient style...),

[philippe7]

Originally posted by David Shaw
Gregg Hansford was a very successful bike racer in the 70's in Australia on a Kawasaki (number 02) before driving Ford Sierras for both Dick Johnson and Allan Moffat. He left us in a fatal accident at Philip Island in a Ford Mondeo when he was t-boned in the driver's door.

Sorry to appear pedantic ;) , and it is not very important anyway....but from whay I recall poor Gregg was not "T-boned"by another car, but spun backwards at high speed into an earth bank .

Gregg was not only successful in Australia, he also made a brilliant carreer in the World Championship....won many GP's onboard his Kawasaki in-line 250 and 350 twins in 77-78-79.

[gerrit stevens]

Yhis category hardly mentioned yet. From three to four wheels; side car world champion Rolf Biland.

Gerrit Stevens

[philippe7]

German Dieter Braun , once 125 and 250 World Champ , did a couple of F2 races in 1975 or 1976 , onboard a Warsteiner sponsored March.

And Steve Parrish, team-mate and good personal friend of Barry Sheene , also raced lorries ( maybe still does ? ) with great success.

But if we are looking at people that were truly "great" ( ie : showing well at world - or US -championship level ) in both fields, I would suggest that only John Surtees, Mike Hailwood and ( perhaps) Johnny Cecotto qualify.....

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by philippe7
Sorry to appear pedantic ;) , and it is not very important anyway....but from whay I recall poor Gregg was not "T-boned"by another car, but spun backwards at high speed into an earth bank .

Gregg spun into an embankment and bounced back onto the track and was hit in the drivers door, so T-boned would be correct.

[philippe7]

Didn't know that, thank you Catalina Park , and my apologies to David Shaw.

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by David Shaw
Gregg Hansford was a very successful bike racer in the 70's in Australia on a Kawasaki (number 02) before driving Ford Sierras for both Dick Johnson and Allan Moffat. He left us in a fatal accident at Philip Island in a Ford Mondeo when he was t-boned in the driver's door.

Not just in Australia, Hansford rode on the world championship circus, winning on 250cc and 350cc machines, racing against the like of Sheene and Roberts Snr. Pity the 500cc Kwaka was a bucket of warm poo. And that Hansford was so big, six foot and 90kg+ of blonde Queensland surfer. Hansford won Bathurst in 1993, raced RX7s all over the globe in the early 80's and died just weeks before his Mondeo super tourer was due to be updated with a rear wing, which might have prevented his accident.

Both sets of racing communities miss him greatly.

[deeks6]

Wayne Gardner - World champ bikes made a relatively successful switch to cars. Although nicknamed "Captain Chaos" in V8 Supercars in Australia was a quick driver and also had some success at Japanese GT's.

Kevin Schwantz was also a World champ 500 rider who later won some NASCAR events in Australia before a big shunt may have put paid to it.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by gerrit stevens
Yhis category hardly mentioned yet. From three to four wheels; side car world champion Rolf Biland.

Gerrit Stevens

Owen Greenwood went from 3 to 4 wheels while still racing in sidecar races....the fourth one was bending the rules a little. Anyone else remember this?

[Macca]

Autosport today has an interview with John Surtees, the excuse being the publicity about Valentino Rossi maybe going car racing in 2007 - also a sidebar about Bill Ivy.

Couple of interesting choices of words by Fearless John - that ACBC had a 'relaxed attitude' to safety, and that in a scrap Gurney and Brabham were tougher than Clark who was 'more careful'............which accords with Clark's account of Monza 1963 when he was trying to lap Innes Ireland who gave him the chop a couple of times so he let Dan past and when Innes tried to block him ("nobody does that to Dan" -JC) there was a small kerfuffle during which Jim nipped past both of them.


Paul M

[Patrick Fletcher]

Both Graham Crosby and the late Roger Freeth raced very well in OZ and NZ on bikes but I think maybe cars only in NZ. Did Cros race a 635 or a Holden at Bathurst one year?

[brooster51]

Originally posted by SEdward
Jacky Ickx started off on bikes, but I've no idea whether he could be described as a great on two wheels.

Turning things around, what about car drivers who switched to bikes? I can't think of any at all.

Edward.

I didn't see if this had been answered but Jacky Ickx was the 50cc National Trials Champion twice, once in 63 and again in 65.

[dmj]

I'm pretty sure that Paul Frere also started racing with just two wheels beneath... but very soon switched to twice as much.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by David Beard


Owen Greenwood went from 3 to 4 wheels while still racing in sidecar races....the fourth one was bending the rules a little. Anyone else remember this?

Was this the 'affair' with a Mini Cooper S front end and two wheels at the rear so close together that it counted as a 3-wheeler or a sidecar? A nice bit of lateral thinking!

[wildman]

Too early to tell if he'll be great in cars, but multi-time supercross and motocross champion Ricky Carmichael is going stock-car racing next year:
http://www.speedtv.c...otocross/33299/

Also, Dale Quarterley, the last privateer to win an AMA Superbike race (Mid-Ohio, 1993), has had some success in NASCAR ladder series.

[Peter Darley]

Originally posted by David Beard
Stuart Graham?

The only winner of the TT on 2 and four wheels

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Peter Darley
The only winner of the TT on 2 and four wheels

Not true
As has been pointed out before

[T54]

Frenchman Claude Vigreux (I believe 7 times French champion from a 50cc Kreidler to a 500cc Rickman-Metisse G50 and Morini Rebello etc...) won the Volant Shell at Magny-Cours (the third laureate after J.P. Jausseaud and Roby Weber) and a MATRA F3. Before he had a chance to show his talent, he got killed in a motorcycle race in Mettet, Belgium, in which the organisers showed utter negligence. It cost his life as well as that of 3 spectators and one other Belgian rider who was pushing his dead Manx on the side of the track nary a yellow flag anywhere.
Vigreux was as telented as Jean-Pierre Beltoise.

T54

[Graham Gauld]

In case no one else has mentioned it, Barry Filer, who provided Jackie Stewart with his Marcos drive that set him up in his career took Jackie and Bobby Macintyre down to Oulton Park to test with his Aston Martin DB4GT lightweight and apparently Bobby was interested in racing but was in the midst of his Honda contract. Sadly he was killed and so we were not able to see how he would have turned out on four wheels.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by T54
Frenchman Claude Vigreux (I believe 7 times French champion from a 50cc Kreidler to a 500cc Rickman-Metisse G50 and Morini Rebello etc...) won the Volant Shell at Magny-Cours (the third laureate after J.P. Jausseaud and Roby Weber) and a MATRA F3. Before he had a chance to show his talent, he got killed in a motorcycle race in Mettet, Belgium, in which the organisers showed utter negligence. It cost his life as well as that of 3 spectators and one other Belgian rider who was pushing his dead Manx on the side of the track nary a yellow flag anywhere.
Vigreux was as telented as Jean-Pierre Beltoise.

T54

Do you perhaps a profile photo of the talented Vigreux?

Was one François Cevert, also a former Volant Shell winner, not a motorcycle racer for a short while?

[philippe7]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Was one François Cevert, also a former Volant Shell winner, not a motorcycle racer for a short while?

François was a keen motorcycle rider "on the street" , but he only entered one single motorcycle race, at Montlhéry in 1962 aboard a 500cc Norton. He retired while laying sixth but was complimented for his efforts by a certain Jean-Pierre Beltoise who happened to be at the circuit ....the start of everything !

I could only suggest anybody who can read french to check out the following page http://memoiresdesta..._1944-1973.html
....where numerous people share their memories of François, including his sister Jacqueline ( Mrs Beltoise ) , his officer during his military service, a couple of his teenage close friends....the latest contributor today is Guy Dhotel, Volant Shell winner in 1970....it's all magic stuff.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
In case no one else has mentioned it, Barry Filer, who provided Jackie Stewart with his Marcos drive that set him up in his career took Jackie and Bobby Macintyre down to Oulton Park to test with his Aston Martin DB4GT lightweight and apparently Bobby was interested in racing but was in the midst of his Honda contract. Sadly he was killed and so we were not able to see how he would have turned out on four wheels.

McIntyre allegedly went so far as to buy an F1 Cooper, which of course he never raced. Do you know if he ever drove (ie, tested) it? After his death the car went to Honda, who brought it to the Goodwood FoS in 2000

[T54]

Do you perhaps a profile photo of the talented Vigreux?

I do and I will post a few pictures here soon of this very talented young man.

[redturner37]

Was this the 'affair' with a Mini Cooper S front end and two wheels at the rear so close together that it counted as a 3-wheeler or a sidecar? A nice bit of lateral thinking!

This is correct. The rules allowed two rear wheels provided that the distance between did not exceed 4". He was also exceptionally quick in his conventional outfit with the laid flat Triumph twin.