1950s numbering systems
#1
Posted 14 July 2004 - 17:46
Like.... why did Ferrari always seem to be given very high numbers at Monaco? (this ran from 1955 right through to 1962)
Also, although I know that the Belgian organisers fiddled with numbers to try to avoid pirate program selling, the 1962 entry was very strangely numbered; BRM 1 & 2, no 3, Campbell-Jones 4, Bowmaker 5 & 6 (6 didn't arrive); de Beaufort 7, no 8; Ferrari 9, 10, 11 & 12 etc etc with the factory Coopers last on the list at 25 & 26. Odd!
Anyone know any reasons????
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#2
Posted 14 July 2004 - 18:48
Cooper Walker (20-22) Lotus (24-26) Vanwall (28-30-32). N°2 was for K.Campbell Maserati as being from Australia, N°4 Godia Espagne (Spain), N°56 Testut as being from Monaco and 58 Bonnier Sweden.
#3
Posted 14 July 2004 - 19:01
Thanks very much indeed for that info.
#4
Posted 14 July 2004 - 21:20
I just presumed allocation was done according to the order each team's entries were received
#5
Posted 14 July 2004 - 22:50
Sometimes the alphabetical order was changed: in 1960 the two last numbers were for the Scarabs of Reventlow because of USA and in 1961 the Camoradi entry was under the E letter for Etats Unis (USA in French). Very interesting because these lists allow to guess what were the first entries: in 1961 Moss N°20 was not justified except if we consider that RRC Walker first entry was for a Cooper changed after that for the Lotus 18. In 1957 Masten Gregory had N°2 (Etats Unis) though his Maserati was a Centro Sud one, so the entry was certainly at first taken by Gregory himself.
In 1958 Sheldon give N°2 to Fangio with an alternative entry for Campbell which can be right if the entry was taken by Fangio, A for Argentina; but I don't agree as the official program and preliminary lists published in local newspapers always put Campbell with first position A for Australia; always on official program N°42 was for the first Maserati with no name of driver and be sure it was the entry for Fangio if he came; as he didn't N°42 was lately allocated for Gould and Sc Centro Sud.
#6
Posted 15 July 2004 - 08:33
Monaco 1966: McLaren & Amon (who didn't appear) - # 1 & 2
Did the organisers mistakenly have them down as Australian?
Paul M
#7
Posted 15 July 2004 - 08:40
Where was Brabham?Originally posted by Macca
Maybe it's just me being dim so early in the morning, but................
Monaco 1966: McLaren & Amon (who didn't appear) - # 1 & 2
Did the organisers mistakenly have them down as Australian?
Paul M
Maybe the heading was 'Australasian'?
#8
Posted 15 July 2004 - 17:52
Originally posted by Macca
Maybe it's just me being dim so early in the morning, but................
Paul , absolutely you were, read the first sentence of my post: "And the same rule applied from 1930 up to 1965". Weren't you speaking of 1966?!!!......
#9
Posted 24 January 2005 - 19:59
In the GP: #2-16 Deutschland, 18-22 Frankreich, 24-26 Grossbritannien, 28-38 Italien, 40 Schweiz.
#10
Posted 25 January 2005 - 00:10
#11
Posted 25 January 2005 - 09:34
No,numbers seemed to depend on nationality of the ENTRANT. McLaren was based and built in GB.Looking at the entry list ;numbers 1-15 were all GB;16-17 Ferrari,Italy,18,Swiss,19 USA. Guy Ligier may have been a late entry?Originally posted by Macca
Maybe it's just me being dim so early in the morning, but................
Monaco 1966: McLaren & Amon (who didn't appear) - # 1 & 2
Did the organisers mistakenly have them down as Australian?
Paul M
#12
Posted 25 January 2005 - 12:52
Allemagne (Germany) were first followed by America, Australie, Austriche, Belgique, Bresil, Danemark, France, Grande-Bretagne, Irlande, Italie, Liechstenstein, Nouvelle-Zelande, Suede, and finally Suisse.
This often led to Team Mates having wildly different numbers. Although it wasn't fool proof as Francois Rousselot, who was definately French, was allocated a number in the middle of the Brits. This probably came about due to him driving for the works GRD Team who probably put down that he lived in England.
#13
Posted 25 January 2005 - 14:08
#14
Posted 29 January 2005 - 18:32
The fragment of race program Grand Prix Hungary 1936 (Hivatalos Program - Magyarorszag Automobil Nagydija - 1936 Junius 21)
Anglia
2 Miss Ellison...Maserati
4 Dobson...Alfa Romeo
6 Martin...Alfa Romeo
Franciaorszag ( = France)
8 Raph...Maserati
Magyaorszag ( = Hungary)
10 Hartmann...Maserati
Nemetorszag ( = Germany)
12 von Stuck...Auto Union
14 Varzi...Auto Union
16 Rosemeyer...Auto Union
18 Caracciola...Mercedes Benz
20 Chiron...Mercedes-Benz
22 von Brauchitsch...Mercedes-Benz
Olaszorszag ( = Italy)
24 Nuvolari...Alfa Romeo
26 Brivio...Alfa Romeo
28 Tadini...Alfa Romeo
Romania
30 Cristea...Ford special
Spanyorszag ( = Spain)
32 Villapadierna...Alfa Romeo
#15
Posted 30 January 2005 - 08:05
Originally posted by D-Type
Why was it only the Belgians who were concerned about pirate programmes? Are Belgian copyright laws less stringent or something.
Probably more an issue of enforcement - Spa at the time was a huge circuit, on public roads, so very accessible to any dodgy programme vendor
Most other circuits were smaller and closed off, so much harder to gain access.
And as with many copyright issues, by the time you have prosecuted the crook the event is over or he has sold his entire stock so you can't stop him selling the item which is what you really want to do.
#16
Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:32
Working on the basis of the entrant's nationality, it appears this must have been a works Ferrari.
Does this mean that Sommer's Ferrari was a factory car? If so, I never realised that he drove for the factory in F.1 - so how many times did he?
#17
Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:47
#18
Posted 11 February 2011 - 12:28
#19
Posted 11 February 2011 - 20:00
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#20
Posted 11 February 2011 - 21:53
#21
Posted 11 February 2011 - 22:44
#22
Posted 12 February 2011 - 07:36
In one prewar race, the organizers changed some but not all numbers after practice. I think I was too wearied trying to solve the problem that I didnt solve it. I just reproduced the printed program, reproduced the photos of cars with a mixture of numbers, remained silent, and hid in the closet. Only two people appear to have noticed