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Carel Godin de Beaufort


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#1 paulhooft

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 20:05

This weekend,
it is 40 years since Carel Godin de Beaufort died
Paul

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#2 D-Type

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 20:58

The last true amateur gentleman racer.

#3 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 21:19

One of my early heroes in motorsport, plugging away at the back in his obsolete 'Fatty'.

I think that he'd be thrilled to see how well thought of he is today.

#4 Racer.Demon

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 14:09

Yes, may he keep on resting in peace - or rather, I hope he's enjoying himself much more up there than just the infinite rest in peace!

Proudly 'wearing' the Ecurie Maarsbergen logo as my avatar... :smoking: (thanks to Arjan de Roos :up: )

#5 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 07:59

In mij local newspaper there was an article on Carel this weekend.
Tantalizing!
It was based on an upcoming biography on Carel that will be released later this year!

Keep you eyes open fellow Dutchies And let the others know when you see or hear something about it!


Henri Greuter

#6 Racer.Demon

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 16:17

The biography is due in August already and was written by F. van Someren. So who he?

Am curious about the result too - not in the least because I, along with other TNF members, had developed plans to write a bio ourselves. :|

#7 paulhooft

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 17:07

henri,
tell us more!!
please
Groeten
Paul

#8 Racer.Demon

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 14:40

Shall I do the honours, Paul? ;)

Frits van Someren
Carel, het leven van Formule 1-coureur Godin de Beaufort 1934-1964
Aprilis, ISBN 90 5994.058

Van Someren is connected to newspaper Rotterdams Dagblad. This past weekend saw the publication in the RD of an article preceding the book that is now said to be due in September/October. It contains part of interviews with sister Cornelie, Gerard van Lennep, Piet Nortier and Anton Geesink.

Van Someren managed to persuade Carel's sister into cooperation. For her, the entire episode is now a closed book, as she will from now on decline any further requests regarding Carel - sadly so for all others interested in propagating the story of Carel's intriguing life.

#9 paulhooft

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 16:46

thanks for this very complete information!
except:
what is the price?

Kindest regards
Paul

#10 Racer.Demon

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 17:55

24.50 euros, apparently...

#11 Racer.Demon

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 20:18

http://www.autonetca...-905994058x.htm

#12 hhh

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 17:21

If you look at the people he interviewed I think a real book is still needed..........
I am sure a lot of great Carel stories are still known to his old friends, I hope they were interviewed as well.

Although it's been 40 years, I can still remember Big Carel coming to our house for tea.........
(driving his Buick Riviera!)

#13 Paul Parker

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 15:34

A big chap, like many Dutchmen, he raced in his socks presumably because his feet were too large. Period grid shots show him without shoes and there are some very good Michael Cooper pics of Carel with Jim Clark and a tame raven (or similar) at his ancestral home.

I believe it was his car that was carrying the camera that dropped off causing Graham Hill to crash his BRM during practice for the 1962 German Grand Prix.

#14 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 07:32

Indeed many people (who are still around) know many stories on this man. Hhh tell us more about your memories on Carel.

Paul: He was very tall, even to dutch standards, hehe. He could have starred in the Dream Team. De Beaufort was keen to go fast so he tried to stay a light as possible (eating biscuits when travelling is such a famous story). He raced in his socks only as he reduced his length in this way by a centimeter (heel height of a shoe).

When you encounter people who met him or saw him on TV, you often get to hear strange but colorful stories. He once explained on TV that it was more safe to pass a crossing at 150 km/h than 50 km/h as you spend less time at this crossing.... And thta without blinking.
Mind you if someone would bring out such a statement nowadays on nationwide TV...

We look foreward to the Van Someren book and hope it will live up. Still it is quite impossible to write a superb, all expectations fulfilling biography.

#15 Ian McKean

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 21:50

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Shall I do the honours, Paul? ;)

Frits van Someren
Carel, het leven van Formule 1-coureur Godin de Beaufort 1934-1964
Aprilis, ISBN 90 5994.058

Van Someren is connected to newspaper Rotterdams Dagblad. This past weekend saw the publication in the RD of an article preceding the book that is now said to be due in September/October. It contains part of interviews with sister Cornelie, Gerard van Lennep, Piet Nortier and Anton Geesink.

Van Someren managed to persuade Carel's sister into cooperation. For her, the entire episode is now a closed book, as she will from now on decline any further requests regarding Carel - sadly so for all others interested in propagating the story of Carel's intriguing life.



My brain may be addled, but IIRC Anton Geesink was an 18 stone 6'6" judo world champion. What was his connection with motor sport, or was it just as a friend of de Beaufort?

Ian

#16 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 06:55

Geesink is a Dutch judo legend, having won one gold medal in Tokyo (beating a japanese opponent and denying Japan to win all four gold medals that were to be awarded the first time judo was olympic.
He is still around as an "important" member of olympic commitees.

Anyway, De Beaufort wanted to become more fit and decrease in weight. All in order to improve his race speed and stamina. He turned to Geesink to train with him.
De Beaufort was avant garde in that way, having his personal trainer!

There is a picture of the two together on the 8w article by Racer.Demon

#17 hhh

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 19:55

I hope the book tells about the famous pre_Dutch GP party at Kasteel Maarsbergen where most F1 drivers came.
Carel was a very charming man, and he charmed many beautifull girls, mostly models........
I was 10 or 11 at the time so most details I have forgotten, but I do remember one day he was testing the Porsche F1 at Zandvoort and I noticed that one of the steel wheels had split over quite a large portion......
His mechanics were rather shocked that they hadn't seen it!

#18 dewittereus

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 15:05

There must be quite a lot of stories about Carel Well known, is the one about all the banknotes on the backseat when customs were passed, inviting them to make inquiries. Carel apparently did not mind being delayed.

Some years ago, on a nostalgic flight with a Douglas DC-4 through part of Europe, I came to talk about Carel with a fellow lover of real airplanes. He had been in the same schoolclass as Carel.

He told me this story:
Carel once brought a car battery with a big horn with him into the classroom (secondary school). In those days classrooms were quiet places where only the teacher spoke, unless a pupil was requested to. So it was a nasty surprise for the teacher when suddenly this (double Fiamm ?) horn shattered the silence.

Assume Carel had to leave the classroom and had to report to the headteacher.

I guess there must be many more stories.


Dick

PS does anybody know about Fon de Partago. According to a story on Dutch broadcaster VPRO's website, Carel decided, after de Partago's fatal car racing accident to adapt a less dangerous style (only) at the circuits. Could not find his name on Google, perhaps it was misspelt

#19 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 15:18

Dick,

You refer to Alfonso "Fon" Cabeza de Vaca y Leighton, 17th Marquis de Portago.

Search this forum (and maybe the net) on De Portago and you will get to know a lot about De Portago, Ferrari, the end of the Mille Miglia (and many, many other things).

Happy reading!

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#20 Kpy

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 15:30

Originally posted by D-Type
The last true amateur gentleman racer.


So was Bob Anderson no amateur, no gentleman, or no racer? I assume (always a dodgy business) you mean at Grand Prix level.

#21 D-Type

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 16:52

Originally posted by Kpy


So was Bob Anderson no amateur, no gentleman, or no racer? I assume (always a dodgy business) you mean at Grand Prix level.

Depends on the definition of 'gentleman' doesn't it? I was using it in the sense that Rob Walker used it when he put his occupation as 'gentleman' on his passport*. I certainly meant no disrespect to Bob Anderson, Piers Courage or anyone else.





*Gentleman - one who has sufficient means not to need to work for a living

#22 Kpy

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 20:07

Originally posted by D-Type

Depends on the definition of 'gentleman' doesn't it? I was using it in the sense that Rob Walker used it when he put his occupation as 'gentleman' on his passport*. I certainly meant no disrespect to Bob Anderson, Piers Courage or anyone else.





*Gentleman - one who has sufficient means not to need to work for a living


Are you saying that Carel put "Gentleman" as his occupation on his passport
and that neither Anderson nor Courage did ??

#23 D-Type

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 22:02

Originally posted by Kpy


Are you saying that Carel put "Gentleman" as his occupation on his passport
and that neither Anderson nor Courage did ??

No

#24 Marcel Visbeen

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 22:23

Originally posted by dewittereus
does anybody know about Fon de Partago. According to a story on Dutch broadcaster VPRO's website, Carel decided, after de Partago's fatal car racing accident to adapt a less dangerous style (only) at the circuits. Could not find his name on Google, perhaps it was misspelt


I haven't visited the VPRO-website, but I'm sure their information must come from an interview that Wilfried de Jong had with the sister of Carel Godin de Beaufort a few years ago. At the time I was the director of that program and she told Wilfried that Carel met De Portago before the start of the Mille Miglia in 1957. It was a very friendly encounter (in which they discovered that they had a similar liking for Coca-Cola). The fact that his newfound friend crashed fataly after he just met him made a huge impact on Carel and his sister insisted that this meeting indeed changed his attitude to racing.

#25 Racer.Demon

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 07:54

And thus the reckless youngster morphed into 'Veilige Careltje' - safe little Carl...

#26 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 13:56

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
He once explained on TV that it was more safe to pass a crossing at 150 km/h than 50 km/h as you spend less time at this crossing.... And thta without blinking.
Mind you if someone would bring out such a statement nowadays on nationwide TV...

;)

#27 vintageautomobilia

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 23:56

At one time I owned a Porsche 550 1500RS Spyder (#077) that supposedly was one of de Beaufort's cars. It was sold to Chuck and Suzie Dietrick (sp). I purchased it through Tom Payne in Ypsilanti, Michigan in 1966/67 for $1500 with spares and a trailer. It was silver with green spears up from the lights, and green upholstery. Unfortunately, like many other rare cars I've owned, I didn't keep it.

#28 Alan Cox

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 18:35

Carel fans may be interested to know that there is a six-page article on the Dutch Count in the current October issue of the French magazine "Automobile Historique". It is by Pierre Menard with a contribution from Paul Frere about the 1960 Nurburgring 1000 kms.

#29 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 07:50

Thank you for the tip. Actually I do buy this mag since it started and like it very much. The french language can be a barrier but a lot of good pics in there.

#30 René de Boer

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 09:27

BTW, I have been out of the country for a couple of weeks (DTM, Paris Motorshow etc), has anyone already seen the new book on Carel Godin de Beaufort ? Or is the newly-guised Motor Sport the only publication that is being discussed here :)

#31 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 13:01

Havent picked up my copy yet.

Motorsport has indeed changed: I saw that Ron Dennis has taken over from Roebuck... :rotfl:

#32 René de Boer

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 13:17

I have just been told by my local car book shop (Autoland in Hilversum) that the publication date has been postponed till mid-November.

#33 Kpy

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 17:30

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos

Motorsport has indeed changed: I saw that Ron Dennis has taken over from Roebuck... :rotfl:


Think you're mistaken. See pages 21/22 when you buy it

#34 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 12:10

:rotfl:

#35 Pedro 917

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 00:30

Here's a press release (in Dutch followed by English translation) I've received today :

PERSBERICHT

Auteur signeert uniek Nederlands autosportboek

Veertig jaar geleden was Carel Godin de Beaufort wat we nu noemen een ‘Bekende Nederlander’. De Beaufort, alias ‘de jonker van Maarsbergen’ was autocoureur en levensgenieter. Zijn dood in 1964 was een schok voor velen.

Vooral bij de ingewijden in de toenmalige autosportkringen zijn veel sterke, maar ware verhalen over en rond Carel bekend. Toch was Carel, eenmaal achter het stuur van een van zijn Porsche ex-fabrieksracewagens, een coureur die zijn vak uitermate serieus nam. Ondanks beperkte middelen ten opzichte van de grote fabrieksteams bleven resultaten niet uit. Hij was de eerste Nederlander die punten scoorde voor het wereldkampioenschap formule 1 en daarmee de voorloper van Jos Verstappen en andere hedendaagse coureurs.

Het is eigenlijk ronduit verbazend dat er niet eerder een boek over het leven en de loopbaan van Carel is geschreven. Auteur Frits van Someren heeft die taak op zich genomen en een boek geschreven dat recht doet aan de bijzondere persoon die Carel was. Het boek is geïllustreerd met circa 250 foto’s, die in veel gevallen nooit eerder zijn gepubliceerd. De uitgave telt 192 pagina’s op het formaat 22 x 22 centimeter en kost € 24,50.

AutoNet Carbooks is als speciaalzaak in oude en nieuwe autolectuur bijzonder trots dat dit langverwachte boek niet alleen in onze winkel zijn debuut beleeft, maar de verkoop start ook met een signeersessie door schrijver Frits van Someren. Op zaterdag 20 november aanstaande is Van Someren vanaf 14.00 uur bij AutoNet aanwezig om te signeren en uiteraard alle vragen rond het boek en de persoon Carel Godin de Beaufort te beantwoorden.

U vindt AutoNet Carbooks aan de Oostzeedijk 350 in Rotterdam. De winkel is op zaterdag geopend van 10.00 tot 17.00 uur.

Rotterdam, 5 november 2004.

Translation :

Press Release

Author signs unique Dutch motor racing book.
40 years ago, Carel Godin de Beaufort was what we'd call now a "famous Dutchman". De Beaufort, alias squire of Maarsbergen, was a racing driver and notorious 'bon-vivant'. His death in 1964 was a shock to many of us.

Especially amongst the initiated of the motor racing circle in those days, many great but also true stories of Carel are known. Still, Carel was, once behind the wheel of one of his ex-works Porsches, a driver that took his job very seriously. In spite of limited means, compared to the works cars, he achieved good results. He was the first Dutchman to score points for the F1 World Championship and so was the forerunner of Jos Verstappen and other contemporary drivers.

It's really amazing that no book about Carel's life and career was written before. Author Frits van Someren assumed this duty and wrote a book that's doing justice to the very special person that Carel was. The book is illustrated with some 250 pictures, many of them never published before.
The 192 pages book measures 22 x 22 cm and costs € 24,50.

Autonet Carbooks, a bookshop specialized in old and new motor racing books, is very proud to announce that this long-awaited book will not only make it's first appearance in our shop, but sales will also start with a signing session by the author Frits van Someren. On Saturday, 20 November, van Someren will sign his book, here at Autonet, as from 14.00H and he will be pleased to answer all your questions concerning Carel Godin de Beaufort and his book.

You can find AutoNet Carbooks at the Oostzeedijk 350 in Rotterdam. The shop is open on Saturday from 10.00 till 17.00H.

Rotterdam, 5 November 2004.

Note : the book is only available in Dutch !!

#36 Barry Boor

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:00

Note : the book is only available in Dutch !!



What a pity!

#37 paulhooft

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 14:01

Autonet Carbooks, a bookshop specialized in old and new motor racing books, is very proud to announce that this long-awaited book will not only make it's first appearance in our shop, but sales will also start with a signing session by the author Frits van Someren. On Saturday, 20 November, van Someren will sign his book, here at Autonet, as from 14.00H and he will be pleased to answer all your questions concerning Carel Godin de Beaufort and his book.

Ik kom er een halen...
I'll be very pleased to go there and get one!!

Paul Hooft
Zoetermeer,
Nederland

#38 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 11:45

But the 250 pictures alone should make it a purchase?


Originally posted by Barry Boor


What a pity!



#39 Racer.Demon

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 22:45

Originally posted by Barry Boor


What a pity!


Don't worry, Barry. Just be patient - there is something afoot in the not too distant future that could change some of that.

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#40 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 22:50

:)

#41 conjohn

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 22:59

A Linguaphone course in Flemish for Barry, perhaps? :rotfl:

#42 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 23:18

Do me a favour, please, I have enough trouble with Welsh!!!

#43 Racer.Demon

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Posted 13 November 2004 - 16:51

I thought a link here would be appropriate too:

http://8w.forix.com/maarsbergen

The result of a brief visit after today's Dutch TNF gathering...

#44 Pedro 917

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 10:35

On the tombstone, you can read Karel i.s.o. Carel.
Cornelie, sister of, said he prefered Carel because it looked more "International".

#45 paulhooft

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 16:30

I just collected this book on Carel Godin de Beaufort by Frits van Someren,
at he autograph meeting in Rotterdam, Netherlands.
It is well done, with a lot of Photographs
ISBN 90 5994 058 X
Please note that it is in DUTCH language...,
but has 250 pictures, including some of other famous racing drives during there amazing off racing activities!....
Like Bruce McLaren fighting Graham Hill with a sword, and Dan Gurney as a spectator !
They had a lot more fun, then.....
Kindest regards
Paul Hooft

#46 René de Boer

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 15:40

Should anyone in The Netherlands happen to read this in time: there will be an interview with the author of the book on Carel Godin de Beaufort in the TV-programme "Holland Sport" on VPRO TV, Ned. 3, 17.00 h, on Sunday, November 21.

#47 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 09:55

And will be on-line as of today on the VPRO website here:

http://www.vpro.nl/p...ingen/19518544/

Click on "Video" on the darker green field on your right hand side.

#48 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 10:29

I have also bought (thanks L!) and read my copy this weekend. Big expectations I had. And what is my opinion? Well I am very happy that there is a book on Holland's only classic Grand Prix driver. It is a well executed book. However I may have had too much expectations.

First of all there are many photo's in this book. Great! Bundled as such this is a must have for all interested in dutch racing drivers and/or fifties/sixties international racing. Many of track shots, that give insight in his racing days.
Still I am missing many pics from his endurance racing, in which he performed mabye his most succesful races when looking at results.
For instance no picture of his 1958 Le Mans effort, while I purchased myself some pics easily here and there from specialists shops. Also some pics are poor reproduced and as Racer.Demon's piece at 8W/Forix is quoted as a source I suspect some are downloaded from the net and published (maybe then I am a co-operator as well!).
I am affraid that some photographers are not mentioned, still their pics are used. Many beautiful pics have been left unused.

Then after reading the book, I was somewhat disappointed. The book gives many anecdotes known from his racing days that have been known when reading the right literature (like AtlasF1) but others are left out and could have given so much extra to this book.

The Spa engine swap (stutgart vice versa on sat evening/sun morning) is one Van Someren portayed very well. But still many have been left out. A thing that bothers me is that the writer interviews people who indeed where close to him like his sister, Judo champ Geesink, ex-mrs. Frankenberg and dutch journo Wiedenhoff. Their stories are told often separately and not integrated in one story in this book. Given a somewhat fragmented story, sometimes repeating statements. Also he could have chosen to find others who know so much more additional information (officials, drivers, spectators).
E.g. The aftermath of his accident is mentioned only shortly, and the fact he was awake and also had talked to some people only briefly described.

Still a book worthy to this man (still a small size book!!), but in my opinion certainly not the last!

#49 Racer.Demon

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 12:53

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
First of all there are many photo's in this book. Great! Bundled as such this is a must have for all interested in dutch racing drivers and/or fifties/sixties international racing. Many of track shots, that give insight in his racing days.
Still I am missing many pics from his endurance racing, in which he performed mabye his most succesful races when looking at results.
For instance no picture of his 1958 Le Mans effort, while I purchased myself some pics easily here and there from specialists shops. Also some pics are poor reproduced and as Racer.Demon's piece at 8W/Forix is quoted as a source I suspect some are downloaded from the net and published (maybe then I am a co-operator as well!).
I am affraid that some photographers are not mentioned, still their pics are used. Many beautiful pics have been left unused.

Then after reading the book, I was somewhat disappointed. The book gives many anecdotes known from his racing days that have been known when reading the right literature (like AtlasF1) but others are left out and could have given so much extra to this book.


So not all too positive then... :

I hope to get my copy at the official presentation on Thursday. As far as the pictures are concerned, I wasn't contacted about them, and we have a clear copyright disclaimer on every page stating our fair-use/low-res policy while prohibiting others to make commercial use of them. We'll see...

Meanwhile, we will continue our efforts to create a virtual Carel memorial of our own - in English - and hope to cooperate with Van Someren on this.

#50 Racer.Demon

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 21:34

The book was officially presented to Carel's sister Cornelie today, and I was fortunate to be present at the scene.

The presentation was in apt surroundings - the Porsche showroom of Pon (the Dutch VAG and Porsche importer) in Leusden. Got to talk to both Cornelie and the author, and was glad to find that they are very positive about our plans. The book looks stunning, certainly compared to the usual standard of Dutch motorsport publications, and the 8W site is indeed listed in the bibliography, which got me a free copy. :cool:

On my return home I also presented the power of TNF to Mr Van Someren... During our chat he mentioned that he desperately tried to find out what happened to Wolfgang Seidel after he got his license revoked for life by the AvD. As I didn't have the answer on hand I promised him to have a look around. At home I decided to follow the rule of thumb (or in fact 'Rule Number Zero' as I faintly recall) I advocated here on TNF many years ago - 'When In Doubt, Ask TNF First'.

And look what a simple search of 'Wolfgang Seidel' dragged out?

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=27367

It's just a small thread but it's all in there! :clap:

I'm sure Mr Van Someren will be a happy man when he opens my e-mail. :D