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'Fórmula Uno Nacional' - the amazing Argentine Formula One


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#101 ghinzani

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:11

Excellant Mekola. Can you provide more info on the technical specs of these cars as I dont speak Spanish. Interesting looking cars indeed. :up:

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#102 ghinzani

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:44

Theres some great homages to F1 - a Ferrari copy and these two
A Mclaren Honda alike:
http://www.f1-compet...toria/80/52.jpg
http://www.f1-compet...toria/80/16.jpg

and a Renault RE60 alike (what a car to copy!!):
http://www.f1-compet...toria/80/59.jpg

#103 ghinzani

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:48

and of course a Mallock-alike!!

http://www.f1-compet...cianosotro2.jpg

#104 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 23:04

Originally posted by macoran


I Love to hear it at full blast !


You wish, you have!!!!

http://es.youtube.co...feature=related

regards,

#105 DIE_SILBERPFEILE

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 11:50

Hello to all!! I tell them that for time I enter to the forum and it he, me is very interesting, of step I show them my car, a bravi ford who I believe that repco I to them comment on something, encontre in a calamitous condition and after a lot of time manage to restore it and to leave it in ideal conditions, inside very little pus to prove (try) it in track, a great greeting!!!

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new exhaust and admision.. :eek:

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#106 David McKinney

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 15:10

Nice work, Silberpfeile :up:
Do you know who first raced your Bravi-Ford?

#107 DIE_SILBERPFEILE

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 15:36

Seemingly the fact that race this car but with engine chevrolet was jorge sedano, but im not 100% sure..

#108 David McKinney

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 16:00

Thanks

#109 ensign14

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 18:52

That's a sweet looking car. Thank you for sharing it with us. :)

#110 fines

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 20:11

Yes, nice car! :up:

I may show my ignorance here, but what sort of engine is that? A 6-cylinder Ford, with rocker arms? OHV conversion? And in the detail picture, that looks like some strange porting...

#111 DIE_SILBERPFEILE

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:17

nops ..its A 6-cylinder Ford, with rocker arms 4 liters..

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#112 jadb1

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 02:46

Welcome My Friend!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

#113 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 17:54

I imagine that's based on the Ford Falcon engine?

If that's the case, you should look at getting the Australian crossflow head for it!

#114 DIE_SILBERPFEILE

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 19:52

Originally posted by jadb1
Welcome My Friend!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


thanks jadb1!!!!!

It is a pleasure to be in this forum

#115 DIE_SILBERPFEILE

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 19:54

In effect this one based on the engine of the ford falcon, but I do not know the Australian crossflow head, please give to me details, thanks!!

#116 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 12:01

The Falcon engine continued to be developed in Australia...

I can't be sure of dates, but some time in the seventies a cast iron crossflow head was created for it. Then possibly 1980 or so it was changed to an alloy crossflow head, then a few years later this was further modified (called 'Crossflow II'). By the nineties the engine had a SOHC alloy head, still crossflow, which I believe is about to be phased out. It went from 144 to 170 to 200 to 220 and finally 250ci, when the SOHC version was first released it came back to 3.9 litres, then grew again a few years later to 4.0 litres.

If you round up a few Esplanada ohv V8s for me I'll swap you a few Falcon crossflows.

#117 Paul Newby

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 01:26

This is a fabulous thread about single seaters that I never knew existed.

Ray, I'm not sure that the Falcon engine went cast iron crossflow in the 70's. I believe that the alloy crossflow head introduced around 1980 was either cast or designed by Honda. It was fuel injected in 1983.

Re the SOHC engine, I thought the only similarity with the old pushrod engine is that they use the same bore centres so they could be produced on the same transfer machines, etc. In 2002 with the BA the Falcon went DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder across the range. It is to be phased out in 2010 when they close the Geelong factory. One of the last I6 engines (along with BMW) still in production.

I visited Argentina about 10 years ago and can recall seeing a few late series Falcons on the street there. Imagine an original Aussie XK Falcon crossed with a TF Cortina and you have an Argentine Falcon.... :)

#118 Catalina Park

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:04

They went to cast iron cross flow heads in the XC in 1976. The alloy cross flow head came in the XD in 1980.

#119 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 14:02

Thanks for that, Mountain Man...

While the appearance of the OHC engine's block is different to the early engines, I'm told there's plenty of the original roots still in there.

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#120 jadb1

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 15:11

Jorge Raul Recalde & "Andrea" Berta-Tornado, Year 1973 Rio Iv Cordoba


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#121 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 23:48

Amazing!!!

Jorge Recalde run too in our F1 nacional..!!

:clap: :clap:

#122 EvDelft

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:20

Hi everybody,

Just showing up again after a while, reading all this super interesting stuff.

Leaves me only 1 question:
On the first page, in the first row it shows that in 1966 the Champion is Domingo di Santo. Later on the table shows that the 1966 Champion is Vicente Cipolatti.

Makes me a little bit confused. Any one who knows what has happened there?

And another question: in 1975 there were some races but just no Championship, does that count also for 1965? And what about 1963 and 1964? Does anybody have any information about that?

Thanks in advance, then I can complete my documentation with yours ;)

Erwin.

#123 Bob Riebe

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 17:28

I love it when this thread comes back, it shows how absolutely great racing used to be, world wide, before sanctions got god complexes.

#124 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 23:28

1973 - 500 Miles of Rafaela
Sharing the podium, Nestor García Veiga (in top), Jorge Ternengo and Edgar Guimard.

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#125 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 00:00

In 1975 there were three races and no championship, because it was required at least six races to sanction it, as happened in 1971

In 1965 there were no races at all after a monumental riot regarding rules, with bans on drivers and constructors.

In 1966, the champion was Cipollatti with Di Santo as runner-up

As a national series, Mecánica Argentina fold-up in 1979. But it stills remains as a club series. Last month, a race was ran in La Plata track. Polesitter was old man Orlando Sotro (78 years old) with his Sotro car, constructed in 1966 and reformed in 1970 (as its body resembles the 312B Ferrari of that year). But there was only seven cars and the winner drove a Tom's-Toyota ex F-3 car.

A month ago I was talking with Jorge Omar Del Río, last MAF-1 champion, about that last year. What a funny memories!!!

#126 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 02:46

:clap: :clap:

#127 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 23:34

The last Sunday, in the Autódrome of La Plata city:

With 76 years old, míster Orlando Blas Sotro, the legendary Orlando Sotro, Champion of F1 Nacional twice times in the 60's, return to the racetracks with his car, the Sotro-Ford 230 Cune Inches..,

Watch this fellas:

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:clap: :clap:

#128 EvDelft

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 06:44

Great photo! And wonderfull that a man of that age still races at a compatitive level (or does he?).

Another question from the '63-'79 era. Anything known about the points systems?

#129 Michael Oliver

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 11:17

Omar Mura Curvetino - Albizu Dodge - Buenos Aires 1970

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Great photo! Any idea what the wedge-shaped car running in seventh position is?

Michael

#130 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 14:57

Carlos Reuteman and Eliseo Salazar were also driving in the series. has someone a complete starting list from both drivers? With team and car...

And were there some other F1 drivers driving there?

#131 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 19:17

Carlos Reuteman and Eliseo Salazar were also driving in the series. has someone a complete starting list from both drivers? With team and car...

And were there some other F1 drivers driving there?



Miguel Angel Guerra was runner-up in the 1977 series, the last exciting one. He drove a Berta-Renault

As far as I remember, Reutemann drove in the 1966 Rafaela 500 Miles, with a De Tomaso-Fiat. Then, in 1969, he raced with a F2 car, a BWA-Fiat, in some F1 races.

I don`t think Salazar raced in MAF1: He was 1978 Formula 4 argentine champion and in the following year he went to race to England.

Regarding the point systems between 1963 and 1979, there were several, and very confusing. During some time, it was used the 3-2-1-0,5 scale for the first four placed. In 1972, they used the scale 22-13-8-5-3-2-1, because any driver won in that way the sum of the points of the two following drivers. I guess that in 1979 they used the 9-6-4-3-2-1 scale.



#132 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 19:19

Great photo! Any idea what the wedge-shaped car running in seventh position is?

Michael


It seems a Bravi car, built in Rosario. Omar Almeida used to be the driver.

#133 Michael Oliver

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 20:36

It seems a Bravi car, built in Rosario. Omar Almeida used to be the driver.

Thanks Pablo! Looks a bit like some of the USAC Indy wedges around in the late 60s.

Michael

#134 facu88

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 23:49

Hello, sorry for my english. I´m from Balcarce, Argentina

from my MAF1´s database:

1962-¿?:
-Regular races:¿?
-Rafaela: 15-10-5-2,5

¿1966?-1971:
-Regular races: 8-6-4-3-2-1 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)
-"500 Millas de Rafaela": 24-18-12-9-6-3 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)
-Races specials with another points system: Paraná 1970, 200 Millas de San Antonio, etc.

1972-1974:
-Regular races: 21-13-8-5-3 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)
-"500 Millas de Rafaela": 31-21-13-8-5 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)
-Races specials with another points system: 300 km Ciudad de Córdoba, another races in Rafaela

1976:
-Regular races: 16-10-6-4-2 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)
-"500 Millas de Rafaela": ¿equal?

1977:
-Regular races: 9-6-4-3-2-1 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)
-"500 Millas de Rafaela": 16-9-6-4-3-2 (+ 1 point for fastest lap)

1978:
-Regular races: 9-6-4-3-2-1
-Two Rafaela races: 12 - 8 - 5 - 3,5 - 2,5 - 1,5

1979:
-All: 9-6-4-3-2-1

Edited by facu88, 24 January 2010 - 22:18.


#135 facu88

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 23:53

Club series points:
1980-¿?: 9-6-4-3-2-1
¿?-2001:10-6-4-3-2-1
2003:10-8-6-4-3-2-1
2005-2009:10-8-6-4-3-2-1 (+ 2 points for start)

#136 LittleChris

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 00:11

Welcome facu88, you come from a very famous place :wave:

#137 EvDelft

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 07:17

Thanks, facu88! Helping me a lot.

Now my trick is to find the results of the individual races...;)

#138 Allen Brown

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 07:43

Welcome facu88. Do you have race results in your database?

#139 EvDelft

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:47

Welcome facu88. Do you have race results in your database?

Yes, please?? :D

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#140 Claudio Navonne

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:37

It seems a Bravi car, built in Rosario. Omar Almeida used to be the driver.

Yes Pablo You are right, but the driver of this car this year was the late Victor Hugo Plá.
Regards, Claudio.

#141 facu88

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 00:26

Welcome facu88. Do you have race results in your database?


yes!, race results, cars, drivers, engines

also search!


#142 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 03:14

Thanks Pablo! Looks a bit like some of the USAC Indy wedges around in the late 60s.

Michael



It was clearly inspired after the Lotus 56.

A special detail: if you look carefully in the pic of the race start (that was in 1969, more than 40 years ago), the car that is ninth in the order, the one with the square nose, is the same car of the pic posted before: it is the same driver, Orlando Sotro. If you look carefully, the bodywork in the picture taken last year resembled that of the 1970 F1 Ferrari 312. Sotro reformed his car inspired in the Ferrari... and left it untouched for nearly 40 years. Amazing, isn't it?

#143 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 03:16

Yes Pablo You are right, but the driver of this car this year was the late Victor Hugo Plá.
Regards, Claudio.



That's right!!!! Almeida is driving the car in second in the pic!

#144 EvDelft

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 06:56

yes!, race results, cars, drivers, engines

also search!

Well, I am very interested! Sounds great!! :up: :up: :up: :up: :love: :clap:

#145 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:47

In 1965, the brothers Manuel and Enrique Benamo senior, from Bahía Blanca city, 980 Km to South of Buenos Aires, designed and builded this car, the Benamo BE-1, this was the FIRST Argentine F1 car with rear Engine and independent suspensions... 3 years BEFORE that the famous Oreste Berta cloned the inglorious Cooper TF 81..

The former engine in this amazing car was a Pontiac Tempest V8 engine., too heavy and huge, soon my father Manuel replaced that monster with a modern Chevrolet 230 cune inches, maked by Toto Fangio, the brother of the great Juan Fangio.

That kind of things took place in my home, when I was a kid.... ;)

Growing in this environment, certainly I don't had lumber for to be a lawyer or dentist... :)

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Manuel Benamo was 3 times Champion in the Argentine Midgets Championship.., in a Challenger Cup runned in a Villa Mitre Club racetrack, he defeat in the last race to famous Roger Mc Cluskey USA driver.,

Kind regards.,

Edited by Repco von Brabham, 10 January 2010 - 03:53.


#146 HistoryFan

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 20:33

Miguel Angel Guerra was three time champion in Argentinian F2. Is that record?
Has anyone a complete list with all champions?
perhaps with team and car...

#147 facu88

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 03:49

Miguel Angel Guerra was three time champion in Argentinian F2. Is that record?
Has anyone a complete list with all champions?
perhaps with team and car...


Fórmula 2 Mecánica Argentina:

Year Driver/Chassis-Engine

1969 Carlos Reutemann/BWA-Fiat 1500
1970 Osvaldo Bessia/Brabham-Fiat 1500
1971 Osvaldo Bessia/Brabham-Fiat 1500
1972 Osvaldo López/Martos-Peugeot
1973 Carlos Jarque/Lotus-Renault 12
1974 Jorge De Amorrortu/Crespi-Fiat 125
1975 Miguel Ángel Guerra/Lotus-Renault 12
1976 Miguel Ángel Guerra/Lotus-Renault 12
1977 Miguel Ángel Guerra/Lotus-Renault 12
1978 Agustín Beamonte/Berta-Fiat 125
1979 Miguel De Guidi/Berta MkII-Dodge
1980 Guillermo Maldonado/Berta-Dodge
1981 Alberto Scarazzini/Ralt RT3-Dodge
1982 Guillermo Maldonado/Berta MkIII-Dodge



#148 HistoryFan

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 10:44

Thank you.

Edited by HistoryFan, 21 January 2010 - 10:47.


#149 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 12:30

Where's this list from? Wasn't Carlos Luis Barragán the 1970 champion?

#150 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 14:03

Where's this list from? Wasn't Carlos Luis Barragán the 1970 champion?



The list is perfect. No failures whatsoever.