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#1 sduke

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 05:01

Why hasn't Luca's name been tossed about during this silly season of driver changes? It seems that if Ferrari feels he is good enough to drive for them, he would at least be equal to Wurtz, Gene, or Pizzonia. Certainly he would rate higher than Klien or Pantano.

Is there some reason he receives no press coverage and is never linked to any possible open seats in F1?

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#2 Dudley

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:10

Because he's done F1 and hasn't raced for 5 years.

Plus he'd be insane to leave Ferrari for anything other than a race winning seat and he certainly isn't going to get that.

He's secured himself nomination to replace either Ferrari driver if there's an injury. I dare say he'd dot he same at Sauber. That's pretty damn sweet all things considered.

#3 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:32

And even thouogh he is a highly talented racecar driver, he has proven not to be a good enough F1 racer.

The sport of F1 is NOT as easy as it looks, the common idea that any monky could driver todays cars have been disproved by Marc Gena and Jungleboy.

:cool:

#4 skinnylizard

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:50

wasnt there rumblings of him asking for more $ from Ferrari and being refused and then him looking for a seat?
i thougth any team would be happy to hire him and get info especially a Jordan.

#5 Johny Bravo

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 06:59

As he's the main tester I guess Ferrari wouldn't really like if he would go to anywhere else then Ferrari or Sauber. It's not only about the latest developments and projects he might be involved in but also working/testing methods etc.

#6 Corners

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:26

Badoer is a great driver, he is consistently quicker than Massa, I just think if his desire to race was that much surely he could get a drive somewhere ? Like Sauber for example. Is he trying hard enough ?? Some people say this driver and that driver is fast but can't race, I think that's a bit of a myth racing IS driving a racing car as fast as you can lap after lap in changing conditions, overtaking is generally just attention seeking unless you find yourself out of position. What you've goit to ask is why are they out of position in the first place these guys that overtake slower cars and get noticed for it. Is what I call negative attention, like shooting your mouth off to the press or threatening someone its all negative attention.
Anyway when was the last time 2 drivers raced hard against each other swapping places a few times racing wheel to wheel ? Its not worth it in this format its only worth it to please the press or the fans obsessed by incidents. If Badoer can handle the car with varying grip levels and heavy fuel getting the best out of it and drive flat out lap after lap then he's good enough, like I said I do doubt his character I mean not sticking his face in here and there forcing a drive out of someone.

#7 Ghostrider

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:31

Originally posted by Corners
Badoer is a great driver, he is consistently quicker than Massa, I just think if his desire to race was that much surely he could get a drive somewhere ?


What do you base this on? Testing times? Look at Gene, testing times means nothing when it comes to predict how the driver will work in race situation.

And wasn't it Jean Todt that said that the biggest problem with Badoer is that he is more interested in women than to concentrate and improve on his driving. :)

#8 CONOSUR

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:37

Luca is very handsomely paid to remain as Ferrari's test driver. Ferrari has sweetened his bank account every time they needed just to make sure they could keep him as their man.

Luca is a Ferrari man to the same extent Michael is.





:cool:

#9 Kaiser

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:40

Luca's got a good gig, and must be very good at it. The results over the last few years should be enough to make him very satisfied with his job.

Wasn't it Luca who had the BIG crash in the Prost at Spa, after getting together with Irvine?

#10 Ghostrider

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:42

Originally posted by Kaiser
Wasn't it Luca who had the BIG crash in the Prost at Spa, after getting together with Irvine?


That was Luciano Burti, who also was Ferrari tester for a while.

Burti tried to overtake Irvine on the inside at Blanchimont if I recall correctly, was quite a wild move to say the least. Good thing he came out alright though, nothing serious.

#11 race addicted

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:43

Originally posted by Ghostrider



And wasn't it Jean Todt that said that the biggest problem with Badoer is that he is more interested in women than to concentrate and improve on his driving. :)


He was more specific.... :)

#12 Ghostrider

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 16:45

Originally posted by race addicted
He was more specific.... :)


:lol: , yes I know.

#13 Jeff

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Posted 18 August 2004 - 23:24

Originally posted by Ghostrider


:lol: , yes I know.


Well then tell all of us. We want to know ...

#14 tony

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 00:16

He's secured himself nomination to replace either Ferrari driver if there's an injury. I dare say he'd dot he same at Sauber. That's pretty damn sweet all things considered.



By this, you mean he has a contract saying he will replace an injured driver. Or do you just think he's earned it? Ferrari did not choose him for part of the 1999 season when MS broke his leg. They went with Mika Salo as a replacement. Not only did they choose someone else, they had to deal with another team (Stewart I think) to free Salo from another race seat.

#15 orange

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 00:27

Originally posted by Dudley

Plus he'd be insane to leave Ferrari for anything other than a race winning seat and he certainly isn't going to get that.

He's secured himself nomination to replace either Ferrari driver if there's an injury. I dare say he'd dot he same at Sauber. That's pretty damn sweet all things considered.


Being a test driver , Luca would have knowledge of all development pieces and parts ...
[Or is it not?]
Wouldn't that make it valuble to teams like Macs ...

#16 Ghostrider

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 00:35

Originally posted by tony
By this, you mean he has a contract saying he will replace an injured driver. Or do you just think he's earned it? Ferrari did not choose him for part of the 1999 season when MS broke his leg. They went with Mika Salo as a replacement. Not only did they choose someone else, they had to deal with another team (Stewart I think) to free Salo from another race seat.


Well, Salo had some kind of contract with BAR I think, but he was not driving for them.

Badoer was racedriver for Minardi in 99, so he was more difficult to use than Salo, that is for sure.

#17 arthurive

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 01:39

When Badoer was wining the F3000 title way back in 1992, I was thinking he could
be Italy's next bright hope. (I'm always doing that it seems).
He spent 1993 with the horrible Lola-Ferrari team, but looked competitive enough with his
teammate at the time, the veteran Michele Alboreto.
Some poor tests later, with Benetton (Flavio was trying to help him as he did later with
Fisi and Trulli), Badoer's career looked stalled.
He then had stints with mostly Minardi and one year with the awful Forti team.
After 1999, his racing career was over and he now holds the dubious distinction of having
the most career starts ever (49 or 50) without scoring a point. To be fair, he did score a
few 7th & 8th places which of course would be points now.
Getting to the point, he really is a very solid test driver. A test driver's role is to be consistently
fast enough to get the car near it's limits and technical enough to support the team with
appropriate and accurate feedback to the engineers. On these counts, Badoer must be
excellent, otherwise Ferrari would not have kept him so long.
As a racer, he was mediocre. It seemed to me he never had the strength or endurance
to be a top F1 racing driver. He is afterall, very slightly built. I think that was his downfall. He
simply lacked the overall strength to last racing distances. Certainly on talent alone he would
be a reasonably good F1 driver, probably better than some on today's grid.
I think he has had some offers to race (within the last few years) with midfield teams but
has essentially said that he'd rather test for Ferrari than race at the back.
I also believe that if one of the Ferrari or Sauber drivers was unable to race, Badoer would
be called up as a replacement.

He's been around for (it seems) a very long time now, yet he's only 33 years old.
And yes, I read that he likes the girls quite a lot, and it was very "specific"

Like someone said (or should have) it's not a bad gig, this F1 test thing.

#18 mimin

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 04:03

Originally posted by tony


By this, you mean he has a contract saying he will replace an injured driver. Or do you just think he's earned it? Ferrari did not choose him for part of the 1999 season when MS broke his leg. They went with Mika Salo as a replacement. Not only did they choose someone else, they had to deal with another team (Stewart I think) to free Salo from another race seat.

If I am not mistaken, Badoer has become the third driver that will replace Ferrari's driver should the driver is not available (accident). This has been stated in his contract after the 1999 afair.

#19 pRy

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 21:25

I say it every year, Ferrari should give him a drive at Monza, even if it meant MS sitting it out.

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#20 eoin

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 22:09

Badoer is very average. He has never shown any really pace with Ferrari. I saw him race the 360 against Clarkson(TopGear) in the CarreraGT. Even though it wasn't a serious race Clarkson passed him and went away from him.

edit:
I would'nt be surprised if he has a contract saying he cannot join another F1 for a set period of time.

#21 Scudetto

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 22:11

Originally posted by CONOSUR
Luca is a Ferrari man to the same extent Michael is.


Yes, but thankfully Luca doesn't share Michael's fashion sense.

#22 flyer72

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 22:17

Luca is italian and lives the dream. Who cares if he competes? He gets to drive the hottest F1 car, and he works for Ferrari.... What else can anyone ask for?

And what is happening with Burti?

#23 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 23:19

Originally posted by flyer72
Luca is italian and lives the dream. Who cares if he competes? He gets to drive the hottest F1 car, and he works for Ferrari.... What else can anyone ask for?

And what is happening with Burti?


Yeah, what is happening with Luciano? He looked really promising for a while then it all disapeared.

#24 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 23:25

Originally posted by Scudetto


Yes, but thankfully Luca doesn't share Michael's fashion sense.


Well leather pants are .... eerrrrrmmm ... well, leather pants really.

#25 Racer Joe

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 04:35

Originally posted by eoin
Badoer is very average. He has never shown any really pace with Ferrari. I saw him race the 360 against Clarkson(TopGear) in the CarreraGT. Even though it wasn't a serious race Clarkson passed him and went away from him.

edit:
I would'nt be surprised if he has a contract saying he cannot join another F1 for a set period of time.


And I would beat Michael Schumacher if I were to be driving an Enzo and him a Mini Cooper. :lol:

Okay, the Carrera GT hasn't got quite that much of an advantage over the 360, but it is a quicker car with far more power (around 200+ bhp more). Not to mention the GT is a carbon fibre car whereas the 360 isn't, among other things.

Like you said yourself it wasn't a serious race. They were driving vastly different cars. You would have to be insane to base any judgement on Badoer on that "race".

Though I did read that a couple of ex-F1 drivers commented that LB is that not good an F1 driver because his driving is inconsistent and is, by comparison, to the regular drivers, all over the place on the track. I am not sure if that is the case why Ferrari would keep him for that long.

#26 stuartbrs

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 05:39

I remember reading about Luca at a test session..

apparently not that impressive at all, quite sloppy, missing apex`s every other lap or so...

#27 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 07:27

I absolutely refuse to belive that Luca is not a good test driver.

The team that has won the last 6 WCC's. and soon last 5 WDC's would not hold on to him for that long, unless he fully and completely live up to all the expectations of a test driver. A test driver need not be ultimately quick, he needs to be able to pound around, feel the difference whenever tweaks are made, be able to communicate to the engineers, how the car feels under any given circumstances.

It does not tie in with missing apex's, taking inconsistant lines and such.

:cool:

#28 Ozz88

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 07:52

Certainly he would rate higher than Klien or Pantano.



Yes, sure, but does he have the cash?

#29 Scudetto

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 13:10

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
I absolutely refuse to belive that Luca is not a good test driver.

The team that has won the last 6 WCC's. and soon last 5 WDC's would not hold on to him for that long, unless he fully and completely live up to all the expectations of a test driver. A test driver need not be ultimately quick, he needs to be able to pound around, feel the difference whenever tweaks are made, be able to communicate to the engineers, how the car feels under any given circumstances.

It does not tie in with missing apex's, taking inconsistant lines and such.

:cool:


I agree completely. However ill-fated his race drives have been, Ferrari would not retain his services if he were not worth his weight. It simply stands to figure that after a total of 7 years as a Ferrari tester, he knows the cars as well as anyone on that team and probably knows every square inch of Fiorano better than even Michael.

#30 eoin

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 14:36

Originally posted by Racer Joe


And I would beat Michael Schumacher if I were to be driving an Enzo and him a Mini Cooper. :lol:

Okay, the Carrera GT hasn't got quite that much of an advantage over the 360, but it is a quicker car with far more power (around 200+ bhp more). Not to mention the GT is a carbon fibre car whereas the 360 isn't, among other things.

Like you said yourself it wasn't a serious race. They were driving vastly different cars. You would have to be insane to base any judgement on Badoer on that "race".

Though I did read that a couple of ex-F1 drivers commented that LB is that not good an F1 driver because his driving is inconsistent and is, by comparison, to the regular drivers, all over the place on the track. I am not sure if that is the case why Ferrari would keep him for that long.


Sorry my mistake, it was the 911GT not the CarreraGT! The Stig set the same time in both cars, even though he made a big moment in the 360. If I was Badoer I wouldn't want to be beaten by a TV presenter, especially as he was driving the oppositions car.

I absolutely refuse to belive that Luca is not a good test driver.



he might be a good test driver, but that doesn't make it a fast driver.

#31 Racer Joe

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 05:08

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
I absolutely refuse to belive that Luca is not a good test driver.

The team that has won the last 6 WCC's. and soon last 5 WDC's would not hold on to him for that long, unless he fully and completely live up to all the expectations of a test driver. A test driver need not be ultimately quick, he needs to be able to pound around, feel the difference whenever tweaks are made, be able to communicate to the engineers, how the car feels under any given circumstances.

It does not tie in with missing apex's, taking inconsistant lines and such.

:cool:


Just so we are absolutely clear on this - one of those people who mentioned about the inconsistency was Keke Rosberg ;) who was around in the pitlane during testing when Nico was driving the Williams.

#32 V10 Fireworks

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 06:09

Originally posted by eoin


Sorry my mistake, it was the 911GT not the CarreraGT! The Stig set the same time in both cars, even though he made a big moment in the 360. If I was Badoer I wouldn't want to be beaten by a TV presenter, especially as he was driving the oppositions car.


911 RS? By TV Presenter, sorry about my lack of familarity, do you talk of a real novice, former racer, or absolute legend of a driver turned presenter?

#33 eoin

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 13:25

Originally posted by V10 Fireworks


911 RS? By TV Presenter, sorry about my lack of familarity, do you talk of a real novice, former racer, or absolute legend of a driver turned presenter?


I am pretty sure that he has a racing back ground, I am sure someone here could comfirm this.

#34 NeilB

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 14:03

Luca isn't the best F1 driver around, but he is a good tester where a totally different discipline of driving is required to racing. But Luca might not be at Ferrari next year as he is asking for a pay rise after Ferrari's sucess over the past few years and Ferrari seem none too keen to pay as much as he wants.

#35 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 08:59

Originally posted by Racer Joe


Just so we are absolutely clear on this - one of those people who mentioned about the inconsistency was Keke Rosberg ;) who was around in the pitlane during testing when Nico was driving the Williams.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well seems that old Keke was a great F1 driver, and a poor evaluator of F1 testing talent then.

Regardless of who said it . I absolutely refuse to belive that Luca is not a good test driver.

:cool:

#36 Racer Joe

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 10:31

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well seems that old Keke was a great F1 driver, and a poor evaluator of F1 testing talent then.

Regardless of who said it . I absolutely refuse to belive that Luca is not a good test driver.

:cool:



Keke was commenting on what he saw on the track. He just said Badoer was all over the place and was missing apexes and running inconsistent lines. He wasn't trying to evaluate Badoer's testing ability though we are left to draw our own conclusions if you believe what he said.

Rosberg is more than qualified to comment on race car driving and I don't see any reason for him to say what he said unless he really thinks it.

#37 kenjafield

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 10:36

Of course, as testing goes, maybe Ferrari were trying something new on the car that wasn't working right yet. Hence, the dodgy driving.

#38 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 11:55

Originally posted by Racer Joe



Keke was commenting on what he saw on the track. He just said Badoer was all over the place and was missing apexes and running inconsistent lines. He wasn't trying to evaluate Badoer's testing ability though we are left to draw our own conclusions if you believe what he said.

Rosberg is more than qualified to comment on race car driving and I don't see any reason for him to say what he said unless he really thinks it.


I have (as usual) lost the gist of it. So I need to backpedal and re-state, based on what I think was said and written.

1) Keke Rosberg was commenting in general that Luca was all over the place. This may have been as a racer, not a tester.

2) Luca is NOT a good racer.

3) Luca IS a good tester.

In which ever way it fits in:

KWSN - DSM does NOT think that Luca is a good F1 racer.

KWSN - DSM DOES think that Luca is a F1 tester.

Keke Rosberg most certainly have the credentials to evaluate racers based on their on track performance as racers. I see no direct consequnce of this, that he is also adept at evaluating testers, based on theri on track testing performance.

KWSN - DSM mainstains that if Ferrari continue to employ him as a tester (now some +7 years), then he absolutely refuse to accept that Luca is not a good tester.

Good testing does not equate good racing. Legio are the (possibly partly mythical) stories of how Ronnie Petersson were unable to test anything, as he was just fast in anything.

:cool:

#39 Racer Joe

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 02:26

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


I have (as usual) lost the gist of it. So I need to backpedal and re-state, based on what I think was said and written.

1) Keke Rosberg was commenting in general that Luca was all over the place. This may have been as a racer, not a tester.

2) Luca is NOT a good racer.

3) Luca IS a good tester.

In which ever way it fits in:

KWSN - DSM does NOT think that Luca is a good F1 racer.

KWSN - DSM DOES think that Luca is a F1 tester.

Keke Rosberg most certainly have the credentials to evaluate racers based on their on track performance as racers. I see no direct consequnce of this, that he is also adept at evaluating testers, based on theri on track testing performance.

KWSN - DSM mainstains that if Ferrari continue to employ him as a tester (now some +7 years), then he absolutely refuse to accept that Luca is not a good tester.

Good testing does not equate good racing. Legio are the (possibly partly mythical) stories of how Ronnie Petersson were unable to test anything, as he was just fast in anything.

:cool:


I would pretty much agree with everything you have written if you swap the word "racing" for "driving" with the accompanying difference.

Though I have to say - if a driver cannot run consistent lines and hit consistent apexes, how useful is he to a team during testing?

The fact that LB has stuck around for so long speaks for itself though.

;)

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#40 Spunout

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:13

"Badoer is very average. He has never shown any really pace with Ferrari. I saw him race the 360 against Clarkson(TopGear) in the CarreraGT. Even though it wasn't a serious race Clarkson passed him and went away from him."

"Even though it wasn´t a serious race" ;)

Jeremy Clarkson may have more skills than most Average Joes on streets, but he is miles away from ANY pro race car driver. That can be Tiff Needell, Luca Badoer, anyone. Burning rubber and going sideways looks cool, but it doesn´t take nearly as much skill as being smooth on the limit. Clarkson is a skilled hobbyist. Badoer is a pro. The difference between these two is BIG. I am sorry, Clarkson is a good (I like his wits) narrator, but the day when he _really_ beats Badoer - even with road cars he is familiar with - exists only in his dreams :cool:

#41 El Magnificante

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 11:33

As far as I 'm aware, Clarkson has always been a journalist. Besides, he's too tall and his hair is way too big to be a racer. I remember seeing him drive a Morgan. It looked like he was driving a childs toy. He's obviously no pro-racer, but he has excellent car control and can make things look extremely impressive. Not surprising considering some of the machinery he's driven over the years.

I saw the "race" between Clarkson and Badoer. They were messing around a fair bit, swapping places in the wet. Don't think you could take it seriously.

#42 Spunout

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 12:41

The reason he looks extremely impressive to some folks is LACK of car control ;) He is smoking wheels, rear end keeps sliding back and forth, and so on. The point is, even if you purposely use oversteer, excellent car control means you look smooth. When you correct it, you use one controlled, almost clinical movement of steering wheel. Rear end doesn´t twitch back and forth, and same applies to your hands :) Ok to be fair his car control is good compared to Average Joes and often he goes "over the limit" on purpose. But I have never seen him showing _excellent_ car control. Take Jeremy Clarkson and Tiff Needell, big difference there. Clarkson may be better narrator (wits!!!), but in terms of car control Tiff is from another planet. The difference between them can be compared to difference between Michael Schumacher and Alex Yoong (sorry, Jeremy!) :cool:

#43 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 12:49

Tiff is the ultimate car killing racer-boy wannabe

#44 Spunout

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 12:53

Hehe. I take you are not one of his fans (not sure if he has any LOL)?

#45 El Magnificante

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 13:16

Originally posted by Spunout
The reason he looks extremely impressive to some folks is LACK of car control ;) He is smoking wheels, rear end keeps sliding back and forth, and so on. The point is, even if you purposely use oversteer, excellent car control means you look smooth. When you correct it, you use one controlled, almost clinical movement of steering wheel. Rear end doesn´t twitch back and forth, and same applies to your hands :) Ok to be fair his car control is good compared to Average Joes and often he goes "over the limit" on purpose. But I have never seen him showing _excellent_ car control. Take Jeremy Clarkson and Tiff Needell, big difference there. Clarkson may be better narrator (wits!!!), but in terms of car control Tiff is from another planet. The difference between them can be compared to difference between Michael Schumacher and Alex Yoong (sorry, Jeremy!) :cool:


I'm sure not even Clarkson would disagree about Tiff being in a different league, but I do think his ability to go over the limit and tidy it all back up again is a show of some talent.

Anyway, perhaps we should start a seperate thread, rather than hijack this one....

#46 Spunout

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 13:28

Nah, it looks like we pretty much agree anyway :)

#47 Ivan

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 22:43

Who did he piss on this time?
Or is it that, he does know the car so well that, Team Michael doesn't want to race him?

#48 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 02:37

The third driver in a team doesn't necessarily get the race seat should one of the two race drivers leave. Look at Pizzonia, BOTH race drivers left and he's still the third driver.

#49 Dudley

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 10:00

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
The third driver in a team doesn't necessarily get the race seat should one of the two race drivers leave. Look at Pizzonia, BOTH race drivers left and he's still the third driver.


We know, who said otherwise?

What we DO know is that if either Ferrari driver is injured, Badoer is guarenteed the drive for that period.

#50 LuckyStrike1

LuckyStrike1
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Posted 06 August 2005 - 11:00

Originally posted by Dudley


We know, who said otherwise?

What we DO know is that if either Ferrari driver is injured, Badoer is guarenteed the drive for that period.



Like he was guaranteed in 1999 you mean?