Jump to content


Photo

Who knows this man.....?


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 12 October 2004 - 22:59

Right - no Googling; no looking at websites; this has to be dredged up from your memory banks.

Who is or was CHARLEMAGNE TOWER ?

Advertisement

#2 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,611 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 12 October 2004 - 23:10

Sounds more like a corner to me...! Sorry, BJB.

#3 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 41,780 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 12 October 2004 - 23:27

Are you asking because you already know, or because you want to know Barry?

(I cheated and Googled him, but I'm none the wiser)

#4 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 12 October 2004 - 23:35

Originally posted by Vitesse2

(I cheated and Googled him, but I'm none the wiser)


Sounds like a dodgy Australian wine to me (sorry), but as it happens I know that a shipwreck of this name lies off the coast of New Jersey.

At this point I also cheated, albeit with more success. The potential TNF connection lies within the same geographical area as the eponymous ship... :confused:

#5 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 13,561 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 12 October 2004 - 23:49

Dammit, for about the first time ever I thought I might have known something that the TNF might not know, but lo and behold Bill pops up with its a shipwreck before I do...

Now I know the diving is rubbish and she is spread out over a large area of sea bed but unless she is a complete red herring I can't think of any further significance.

Maybe she was named after someone..

I'm hitting google...

#6 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,066 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 12 October 2004 - 23:57

Originally posted by bill moffat
Sounds like a dodgy Australian wine to me (sorry)...


And so you should be sorry!

There is no such thing as a 'dodgy Australian wine'...

And I feel cheated. I don't do so well on google and I'm waiting anxiously to see what the outcome of all this is.

#7 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 13,561 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 13 October 2004 - 00:01

Well I have a very strong motor racing googlification. I'm happy enough :D It has nothing to do with the boat btw. Oh and its a person.

#8 Pablo Vignone

Pablo Vignone
  • Member

  • 309 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 13 October 2004 - 00:36

Jean-Marie Balestre served in the Charlemagne Division during WW2...

#9 Kilted Wanderer

Kilted Wanderer
  • Member

  • 1,160 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 13 October 2004 - 01:14

Thank goodness for google..... :kiss:

#10 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 13 October 2004 - 06:23

We'll let it run a little longer.

I do know a little - and not from Google. Well, you couldn't invent a name like that, could you.

No, I came across him while browsing through some racing websites. I shall say no more....

...at the moment.

#11 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,090 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 13 October 2004 - 06:57

??? Seem like a madeup name to me. It being the TNF must be some sort of racing connection somewhere. If it really is a person ofcourse. I am hitting google as well.

:cool:

#12 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,090 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 13 October 2004 - 07:11

Well that made me a little wiser.

:cool:

#13 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 13 October 2004 - 07:23

C.T. had 2 arms and 2 legs and had a connection with both Coventry and the Birmingham Small Arms company if that helps in anyway...

#14 Gary C

Gary C
  • Member

  • 5,571 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 13 October 2004 - 08:59

is it the third corner at Crystal Palace ??? :cool: :p

#15 Ruairidh

Ruairidh
  • Member

  • 1,074 posts
  • Joined: November 02

Posted 13 October 2004 - 13:05

Originally posted by Barry Boor
We'll let it run a little longer.

I do know a little - and not from Google. Well, you couldn't invent a name like that, could you.

No, I came across him while browsing through some racing websites. I shall say no more....

...at the moment.


So there is a motor racing connection?

#16 Stefan Ornerdal

Stefan Ornerdal
  • Member

  • 578 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 13 October 2004 - 13:30

Charlemagne was crowned emperor of the first European Union by the Pope on Christmas Eve, the year was 800. His Tower can still be seen in Aachen, Germany.

Or do you mean the other one, the FJ-driver?

Stefan

#17 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,090 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 13 October 2004 - 16:31

I belive that there may be more than one Charlemagne Tower if the last post stand to reason.

:cool:

#18 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 13 October 2004 - 16:42

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
I belive that there may be more than one Charlemagne Tower if the last post stand to reason.

:cool:


Mmm..there is a Charlemagne Tower in the city of Tours in the Loire valley. Motor racing connection? Well if you miss your braking point at Mulsanne corner Tours will be your destination.

Closer to the trail must be a sometime F.J./Daimler SP250 driver of American extraction...

#19 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 13,561 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 13 October 2004 - 17:50

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
I belive that there may be more than one Charlemagne Tower if the last post stand to reason.

:cool:


Surprisingly its a name that crops up from time to time in wealthy american families, probably the same family. One Charlemagne Tower was ambassador to Russia - no idea if its the same one that raced. If you google "Charlemagne Tower" including the quotes you get an astonishing 1250 hits The wreck is there, the family lineage is there, the driver is there and the ambassador is there.

Advertisement

#20 h4887

h4887
  • Member

  • 936 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 13 October 2004 - 19:56

I'm sure I remember him driving a Daimler SP250 at Sebring in 1960...  ;)

Geoff Butcher

#21 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,066 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 13 October 2004 - 21:02

There must be something about using google that escapes me... I can't ever get that kind of result...

I'll hold Barry Boor responsible for this.

#22 condor

condor
  • Member

  • 12,509 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 13 October 2004 - 21:20

£350 quoted for a few scribbled words :eek:

http://www.manuscrip...stock/21411.HTM


Hmmm....perhaps I can get the TNF notorieties to send me a few small words :D
I won't sell them till you're dead :D ...honest guv :)

#23 Geoff E

Geoff E
  • Member

  • 1,523 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 13 October 2004 - 21:37

Originally posted by Ray Bell
There must be something about using google that escapes me... I can't ever get that kind of result...

I'll hold Barry Boor responsible for this.


I found a single race result relating to 1960.

#24 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,090 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 14 October 2004 - 09:49

Originally posted by LB


Surprisingly its a name that crops up from time to time in wealthy american families, probably the same family. One Charlemagne Tower was ambassador to Russia - no idea if its the same one that raced. If you google "Charlemagne Tower" including the quotes you get an astonishing 1250 hits The wreck is there, the family lineage is there, the driver is there and the ambassador is there.


I do not think that he was ever the Ambassasor to Russia. I know that some sites refer to him as such, however the USA official listing of Ambassadors to Russia does not.

:cool:

#25 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 14 October 2004 - 09:57

Where are you Barry ? Have we got to the bottom of Charlemagne Tower or is there more for us to know ?????

#26 2F-001

2F-001
  • Member

  • 4,244 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 14 October 2004 - 10:18

I think I've heard this name mentioned on the very fringes of my Mother's (pretty serious) geneological research - I think it was in connection with original settlers or Mayflower families. Motorsport was thin on the ground then, so presumablty the forename has been passed on down if we have a sporting connection!

I resisted Googling, as Barry asked us no to - but can someone reccomend a source of guidelines for Googling (or other aptly-named "search" engines -- I'd feel more confident if they were called "find" engines). Like Ray, I always feels I'm missing something - Boolean logic notwithstanding.

Ease up on Barry, though! I blame Virginia Bottomley.

#27 Hugo Boecker

Hugo Boecker
  • Member

  • 702 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 14 October 2004 - 17:46

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Right - no Googling; no looking at websites; this has to be dredged up from your memory banks.

Who is or was CHARLEMAGNE TOWER ?


CHARLEMAGNE -----> Charles ------> Karl
TOWER -----> High ------> Wendlinger

#28 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 October 2004 - 18:29

Time for me to come clean, I suppose. But, don't get too excited, you are not going to get some wonderful revelations.

I was browsing the Solitude website and looking through the various race results from the 1960s. There, in the 1961 Formula Junior race was this remarkably-named individual, Charlemagne Tower. An American, apparently, who drove a Lotus 18. I have looked around but can find no other appearances with the Lotus.

Naturally, this led me to Google, and as several others have discovered, the name turns up in various contexts, notably the shipwreck, but if you narrow the search, the aforementioned gentleman appears twice, once in a reference to the Solitude race and the other connected to an appearance at Sebring in 1960 with a Daimler sports car where he finished.... last.

So I am none the wiser than any of youse guys.

I therefore issue a minor challenge to our U. S. of A. members to try to find out more about this wonderfully named individual.

#29 Hugo Boecker

Hugo Boecker
  • Member

  • 702 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 14 October 2004 - 18:46

It's DAN GURNEY trying to impress EVI Butz !!

'CHARLEMAGNE TOWER WINS 1964 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!'


http://forums.atlasf...7556post1817556

#30 bill moffat

bill moffat
  • Member

  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 14 October 2004 - 18:58

OK Barry, so we got to the bottom of Charlemagne Tower. Turn your attention to the "Motor Racing Pubs" thread and have a go at answering the question I've posed in post 30..I'll be very disappointed if you can't provide the answer. ...Touche. :smoking:

#31 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 7,503 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 14 October 2004 - 21:06

And I thought it was an anagram.. The Real Connew Game - not quite.

#32 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 13,561 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 14 October 2004 - 21:07

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


I do not think that he was ever the Ambassasor to Russia. I know that some sites refer to him as such, however the USA official listing of Ambassadors to Russia does not.

:cool:


http://www.webster-d...i...r to Russia

check 1899-1902

There are at least five people called Charlemagne Tower. The ambassador was 1848-1923 as seen in Condors link. Another link refers to a Charlemain Tower jnr in 1894 being a trustee and President of the department of Archaeology and Palaeontology of Penn State University, I would guess this is the same man, due to the state links, which would make the name already 2nd generation - see http://www.library.u...r.memorial.html

Then theres this http://genealogyregi...orum.cgi/read/3 assuming her research correct the son Charlemagne Tower III dates from 1889-1954 so he can't be the driver either. however if you go further down that post you will find that there were 3 distinct Charlemagne Towers alive in the US at that time so the name is not unique and the driver may not be from this lineage. Perhaps if someone was really interested they could forward our dilema to Ms Walker and see what her reply would be.

I also found this http://bigtreebooks....ubCat=&SubCat2= check the Author I don't know when it was written so that could be any of the above.

#33 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 October 2004 - 21:13

:lol: As you say, Roger, not quite.

As an aside, this man actually qualified 15th of 33 for that race at Solitude, so presumably he wasn't a complete plonker.

Then again, he did have a Lotus while many of the opposition were driving exotic tools such as TCA, Lova, Scampolo, Poggi, Zimmerman, Eigenbau and Bode!!!!

And why are these vehicles not at Goodwood, he asked.....

#34 Geoff E

Geoff E
  • Member

  • 1,523 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 14 October 2004 - 22:01

Originally posted by Barry Boor
the other connected to an appearance at Sebring in 1960 with a Daimler sports car where he finished.... last.


According to this http://www.classicsc...scc/ms1960.html there were several cars behind him/them in the Sebring 12 hour race - what qualifies as a finisher is beyond my knowledge.

#35 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,546 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 October 2004 - 22:18

Quite right, Geoff.

The result I looked at seemed to stop after Mr. Tower. As you say, there were quite a few behind him at Sebring.

Apologies to you and Charlemagne!

#36 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,090 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 15 October 2004 - 07:18

Originally posted by LB


http://www.webster-d...i...r to Russia

check 1899-1902

There are at least five people called Charlemagne Tower. The ambassador was 1848-1923 as seen in Condors link. Another link refers to a Charlemain Tower jnr in 1894 being a trustee and President of the department of Archaeology and Palaeontology of Penn State University, I would guess this is the same man, due to the state links, which would make the name already 2nd generation - see http://www.library.u...r.memorial.html

Then theres this http://genealogyregi...orum.cgi/read/3 assuming her research correct the son Charlemagne Tower III dates from 1889-1954 so he can't be the driver either. however if you go further down that post you will find that there were 3 distinct Charlemagne Towers alive in the US at that time so the name is not unique and the driver may not be from this lineage. Perhaps if someone was really interested they could forward our dilema to Ms Walker and see what her reply would be.

I also found this http://bigtreebooks....ubCat=&SubCat2= check the Author I don't know when it was written so that could be any of the above.


Sorry I skipped right past him on the site I looked at:

Charlemagne Tower (1848-1923)
1899-1902


Charlemagne Tower served as Minister to Austria-Hungary for President William McKinley before being transferred to Russia as Ambassador. Following his post in St. Petersburg, he served as Ambassador to Germany from 1902 to 1908 under President Theodore Roosevelt. He was a trustee of the University of Pennsylvania, donating a large collection of 2,300 Russian books to the library, which forms the nucleus of Penn's Russian and East European collection.



:cool:

#37 ReWind

ReWind
  • Member

  • 3,394 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 08 August 2015 - 09:45

Charlemagne Tower IV, the racing driver, died on 21 April 2013 in Thousand Oaks, California.
 
He was born in April 1934. Alas, I don't know the exact date.
 
From his obituary:

Known as Peter, died on April 21, 2013 at Los Robles Hospital after a long illness. He was 79.
Born and raised in Waterville, New York, Mr. Tower became a race car driver in the United States and Europe. In recent years he lived in Santa Barbara before making his home in Simi Valley.
He is survived by a dear friend, Lorraine Stone of Simi Valley and their dog Jubal, and cats Fiona and Fling. He is also survived by a sister, Helen T. Brunet of Mendham, New Jersey and many devoted nieces and nephews. Daughter Helena Elise died in infancy.

FindAGrave