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Matra MS5 & MS7


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#1 VDP

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 12:39

After reading lot of old sport auto, Matra entered for the 1966 and 1967 season Matra Ms 5 as well in F3 F2 events .
The Ms 7 appears only latter in the season in F2 and F1.

Why some sources other than french wrote an Ms 6 and Ms 7 for 1967 events ?

What it for making difference between 1000 cc engine and 1600 cc ?

Robert

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#2 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 14:42

Originally posted by VDP
After reading lot of old sport auto, Matra entered for the 1966 and 1967 season Matra Ms 5 as well in F3 F2 events .
The Ms 7 appears only latter in the season in F2 and F1.

Why some sources other than french wrote an Ms 6 and Ms 7 for 1967 events ?

What it for making difference between 1000 cc engine and 1600 cc ?

Robert


from matra le saga by Jose rosinski
There were 15 Marta MS5/6 built, the MS 6 was identical to the MS5 and the F2 car. The MS5 was equiped with Ford and the MS 6 carried the BRM or Cosworth engine.

#3 VDP

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 17:58

Hugo

What surprise me it s Rosinski was test driver for sport auto in those years.

Is it labelled afterwoods ?

MS 5 FORD 1000 cc and FORD 1600cc

MS 6 BRM 1000cc and ??

MS 7 FORD 1600 cc late 67 model


Robert

#4 brooster51

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 04:02

The following is based on my recollection of an article I read about Matra small-bore formula cars. The Matra MS 5 was introduced in either 65 or 66 (I think it was 66) and used in both Formula 2 and 3. The F2 versions in 1966 used both Ford/Cosworth SCA (Tyrrell and Matra Sports) and Ford/BRM (John Coombs) engines. The F3 versions which were entered only by Matra Sports used the Ford/Cosworth MAE. The Matra MS 6 and MS 7 were introduced in 1967, the MS 6 for F3 and the MS 7 for F2. I think the MS 5 in 1967 still used the Ford/Cosworth MAE but since some or all were sold off to privateers, that may not be accurate. As example of privateers Giacomo Rossi (aka “Geki”), an Italian, was driving a Matra MS 5 in the XVII Coppa d'Oro Pasquale Amato at Caserta, Italy when he was killed along with Romano Perdoni (aka “Tiger”) and Beat Fehr in 1967. Both the MS 5 and MS 7 were converted over to Ford/Cosworth FVA engines for the 1.6 liter F2 formula that started in 1967. By 1968, the MS 5 appears to have been largely retired from action. The last season that the MS 7 was active was 1969. The MS 7 was used in a few F1 events, mainly at the German GP and the early races of the 69 season by Matra Sports.

PS Matra Sports was the 'factory' Matra effort while Matra International was the what the Tyrrell Organization Team converted to when they entered F1 with Matra.

#5 VDP

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Posted 06 November 2004 - 11:03

Any Idee who were the first owners

According to the french sport auto magazine Ken tyrrell intended to enter 2 Formula 2 and one
Formula 3 ?

Robert

#6 brooster51

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 00:36

Note that from 1970, the F.I.A. required that fuel storage be in ‘puncture-proof’ bags within the chassis. The monocoque chassis of the Matra MS5, MS6, and MS7 precluded modification to incorporate this requirement which effectively banned them from participation in this season on.

F3 Builds
Year Number Type Category
1965 4 Matra MS1 F3
1966 6 Matra MS5 F3
1967 3 Matra MS6 F3

F3 Private Owners
Jean-Pierre Jabouille
"Geki" (Giacomo Rossi)
Jean-Claude Guenard
Philippe Vidal
Hervé Bayard
Adam Potocki
Hervé Bayard
Max Bonin

The following is not exhaustive but gives you an idea. The Tyrrell and Coombs teams were closely associated with the factory effort.

F2 Teams
Matra Sports
Jo Schlesser (1966)
Jean-Pierre Beltoise (1966 and 1967)
Johnny Servoz-Gavin (1967)
Ford France
Jo Schlesser (1967)
John Coombs (1966 only)
Graham Hill
Tyrrell Racing Organization
Jackie Stewart (1966 and 1967)
Jacky Ickx (1966 and 1967 also entered in a F3 Matra during 1966)
John Surtees (limited in 1966)

#7 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 07:19

Good, but for G.HILL it was the JOHN COOMBS 's car.

you forget P.RODRIGUEZ (one time ) for the works:

Pedro drove also for the works in sports prototypes .

Jo SCLESSER 's car was an FORD FRANCE entry.

#8 GIGLEUX

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:43

Originally posted by gerard BARATHIEU
Good, but for G.HILL it was the JOHN COOMBS 's car.

you forget P.RODRIGUEZ (one time ) for the works:

Pedro drove also for the works in sports prototypes .

Jo SCLESSER 's car was an FORD FRANCE entry.

What is written is OK
Schlesser 1966 works and 1967 Ford France!

#9 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:30

some of the F2 were converted into F3 and sold to private ends.

It was the same "coque".

Also in International scene you have M.SPENCE in a TYRRELL entry, John FENNING (F3/TYRRELL)

L.SCARFIOTTI (once),H.HAHNE (TYRRELL),.

#10 VDP

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 16:13

Correlation chassis numbers owner ? like
Ms 5/ 4 Matra Sports
Ms 5/ 10 Ford France
Ms 5/ 11 Matra International
Ms 5/ 15 Matra Sports

Ms 7/ 1 Matra Sports
Ms 7/ 2
mmmS 7

#11 IMV

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 22:44

Hi,

I have an official MATRA Sport prospectus from 1969, covering cars (with drawings and cut-away drawings) and results between 1964-69. There is not mentioned any M.S.6 at all, just M.S.1-M.S.5 and M.S.7

Michal

#12 brooster51

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Posted 21 November 2004 - 05:50

You don't see the MS6 mentioned often. One source refers to it as the Matra MS6 (MS5). I don't know specifically, but the number may have just been changed for a different production run. The MS5 were produced in 1965 and 1966 while the MS6 was built in 1967. That may be the only difference.

On my previous entry, I admit I didn't specify every driver. Sorry. In F3, the drivers were:

1965

FACTORY: Jean-Pierre Beltoise, Jean-Pierre Jaussaud, Eric Offenstadt.

1966

FACTORY: Jean-Pierre Beltoise, Jean-Pierre Jaussaud, Henri Pescarolo, Johnny Servoz-Gavin

TYRRELL RACING ORGANIZATION: John Fenning, Jacky Ickx (Ickx actually drove in F2 before F3 I think)

1967

FACTORY: Jean-Pierre Beltoise, Jean-Pierre Jabouille(?), Jean-Pierre Jaussaud(?), Henri Pescarolo, Johnny Servoz-Gavin

PRIVATE OWNERS: "Geki", Jean-Claude Guenard, Philippe Vidal

1968

PRIVATE OWNERS: Hervé Bayard, Jean-Pierre Jabouille, Adam Potocki.

1969

PRIVATE OWNERS: Hervé Bayard, Max Bonin

#13 Stephen W

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 18:38

Whilst blasting through old copies of Autosport and Motoring News I came upon the following data which was provided by matra Sport themselves:

MS1 - Spaceframe car built December 1964 as F3 test-bed. Tested in April 1965.
MS2 - Development of MS1 1965 F3 works team - Eric Offenstadt, Jen-Pierre Beltoise and Henri Pescarolo
MS3 - Long wheel base F2 Projecy. Car was run in F3.
MS4 - Prototype Sports Car - Two built in 1966 using BRM 2.0 V8 engine and BRM gearbox.
MS5 - 1965 Monocoque F3 car - ONLY one car built. Raced by Adam Potocki.
MS6 - 1967 F2/F3 car - Production version of MS5
MS7 - 1967/68 F2 car
MS8 - 1968 Group 6 Sports car also known as Type 630. Initially used 4.7 Ford V8 then switched to 3.0 Matra V12
MS9 - Built late 1967 as Prototype F1 car using Cosworth DFV. Ran early season with JYS driving.
MS10 - 1968 F1 car built using Cosworth DFV and driven by JYS, Johnny Servoz-Gavin etc
MS11 - 1968 F1 car built using Matra V12 and driven by Jean-Pierre Beltoise and Henri Pescarolo

Hope that helps!