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F5000 entrant & manufacturer Tony Kitchiner


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#1 richie

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 21:46

What's the history behind this short lived manufacturer? What's Tony doing now?

Drivers included Gordon Spice, Ian Ashley, Rob Ashley and.............?

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#2 Gary C

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 22:12

.....................there's a Kitchener F5000 car out in HSCC events in the Derek Bell Trophy championship. Can't for the life of me remember who runs it though

#3 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 22:59

....and here it is.

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#4 Gary C

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 00:14

where was that pic taken, Barry, Oulton ??

#5 David McKinney

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 05:03

Is that really the F5000 car, Barry?

#6 Mac Lark

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 05:09

Doesn't look like a small-block

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 05:11

Originally posted by Mac Lark
Doesn't look like a small-block


No, the carburettors are too low...

Or fool injection, whatever lies the other side of that air cleaner.

#8 Reyna

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 06:30

I think it race as F2 or F Atlantic ???

#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 06:45

Yes Gary, August 2003.

This seems to be a different car, pictured at Brands Hatch, summer 2002.

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#10 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 07:50

Car 99 is the F.Atlantic car driven in the DBT by former F5000 driver Patrick Sumner.

#11 MCS

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 08:03

I remember the FAtlantic car - didn't Patrick Sumner virtually destroy it at Mallory Park in it's early days i.e. when it was first built?

Also, Richie, it was Rob Taylor , not Rob Ashley - suspect you made a typo here.

Tony Kitchener was also responsible for the Kitchmac of course - a modified McLaren M10B (pedalled by various drivers, including Roger Williamson briefly) - and a ShellSPORT backed, converted F1 McLaren M19 that Richard Knight and Rene Arnoux drove, the last named once I believe at Thruxton...

Mark

#12 bill moffat

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 08:23

..but the first Kitchener was an F3 car wasn't it ?

#13 Twin Window

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 08:45

One I took of the F5000 chassis at Mallory in 1972, Gordon Spice being the driver...

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#14 ian senior

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 09:45

Originally posted by bill moffat
..but the first Kitchener was an F3 car wasn't it ?


Yes, driven by a French guy called Albert Badin. That car in F3 form, and in its original F5000 guise, sported a more conventional design of nose. Actually, I think he made a couple of these F3 cars. There are pictures of the original F5000 version in the book race Report 3.

Tony K was quite an inventive guy. There was an article about him in Autosport in 1971 or 72, which hopefully I may be able to find and give the exact reference for those who really care. He wa also ready to produce a car for midget racing on short ovals, which was popular at the time. I would have liked to see his proposed Rolls-Royce F5000 engine come to fruition. I'm not sure why it never happened, but I suspect R-R may have thrown a strop or something.

The omly time I saw the Kitchmac in action was at Rufforth, of all places, where it was driven (not very well) by Roberta Cowell in a Libre race. That was in 1972.

#15 David Force

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 11:44

Barry,
The Kitchiner (lets start a debate about the spelling !) pictured at Brands is an F5000 car fitted with an ex TWR Rover V8. Has been seen in various F5000 and Derek Bell races as well as hill climbed at Shelsley Walsh. It is currently for sale on Racecars direct website. It is very similar to the F Atlantic car of Patrick Sumner which is also running in Derek Bell and the Jochen Rindt Historic Formula 2 Trophy.
It was reasonably succesful in its day given the lack of budget and the drivers/engines. Gordon Spice did pretty well with it.
Now if only the proposed Rolls Royce engined car had seen the light of day !

#16 HEROS

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 12:01

I think that Ian speaks about the French driver called Albert Badan, well known
in hill climb in France during the early seventies.

#17 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 12:09

Rolls Royce were very astute in not going ahead with the proposal.

#18 ian senior

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 12:20

Originally posted by HEROS
I think that Ian speaks about the French driver called Albert Badan, well known
in hill climb in France during the early seventies.


Yes Jean-Bernard, that's the man. I wasn't too sure about the spelling of his name as my French isn't too good!

Just remembered that Tony Kitchiner took over the Nemo F3 project from Bernard McInerney, but I can't recall if the cars ever ran at all, in any form of racing.

#19 Mallory Dan

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 12:56

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Car 99 is the F.Atlantic car driven in the DBT by former F5000 driver Patrick Sumner.


I think Pat Sumner had a Trojan in later F5000 years. Described as a 'Trojan Sumner Aero Bonner T101', anyone know what all these mean ?

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#20 Twin Window

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 13:15

IIRC, Patrick's T101 was the ex-Bob Evans car from 1973 and still had the original red STP McKechnie bodywork with the blue, green and silver painted over the top...

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Nice. And it was done by his sponsor 'Custom City'. What a great ad for them... :rolleyes:

Oh, and the pic is from Mallory, Dan! :up:

#21 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 14:36

I remember marshalling at Mondello when Gordon Spice ran short of stopping power in the wet, and jumped the Esso bank with no ill effects , a friend came across Tony at Brands a few years ago , he was running someone in FF , he had I think returned from a long sojourn in Spain

#22 llmaurice

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 19:01

Albert Badans ex-F3 was run in the late '80s by Ralph Ledamun in Hscc events using a Rover V8 . The car was sold on via the late Roger Hurst thence to Richard Parkin (I believe) in kit form .
Another 1 1/2 cars exist in Norfolk and will reappear in the future beautifully rebuild by a man called Gibbs in Terrington St. Clements .
Ian Ashley certainly did indeed drive a Kitchener 5000 .

#23 richie

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 21:38

Good pics guys.

Nice looking motor the Kitchiner-shame it was only a mid field/make weight.

Ian- if you could find that story of Tony out of Autosport.........great

#24 ian senior

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 07:45

Originally posted by richie
Good pics guys.

Nice looking motor the Kitchiner-shame it was only a mid field/make weight.

Ian- if you could find that story of Tony out of Autosport.........great


I'll have a look this weekend, Richie. I'm due for a garage-clearing session. 'er indoors draws the line at old magazines being kept in the house. No soul, some people......

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 08:11

Give 'er the Alan Jones line...

#26 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 12:32

I have a notion that I read somewhere that Tonys core business was building specialised camera vehicles for the film industry

#27 Barry Boor

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Posted 08 January 2005 - 17:32

I have dragged this thread up again following an enquiry from Peter Connew as to the whereabouts (or otherwise!) of Tony Kitchiner. Surprisingly, despite more than 20 posts on the thread, no-one has made any definitive statement regarding T.K.

#28 Barry Boor

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 10:33

I am making another attempt to find out about Tony Kitchener.

Anyone?

#29 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:40

A friend raced at the hatch about 4 years ago , and told me the guy running the car beside him was Tony Kitchener , I will contact someone who may know .

#30 Allen Brown

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:29

Guys, it's Tony KitchIner. You'll find it much easier to find him if you spell his name right.

He lived in Ascot in the 1970s.

Allen

#31 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 09:51

I spoke to someone this morning who sees Tony regularly and tells me that he is living very quietly these days, carrying out engineering & repair projects for a farm which incorporates a small but active airfield. He now lives a few miles outside Cambridge.

Allen

#32 Patrick Sumner

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 13:46

Having recently been introduced to Atlas F1 and specifically this thread, I thought perhaps ‘straight from the horse’s mouth’ might clarify some detail. It’s well documented that Tony Kitchiner was with Chequered Flag during the ‘60’s and then set up Tony Kitchiner Race Developments in Stamford Brook Arches which is where I first met him in ’71 after answering an advert for a driver in the new Yellow Pages F Atlantic series. As has been posted, he had the Brendan McInerney Nemo project, designed I think by Max Boxstrom, which he planned to use. As I am pretty tall the first thing is always, do I fit? The answer was emphatically no and so that was that, but Tony had other ideas and guided me to one of his chassis and away we went. The chassis was designated K4B, although Autosport reported it as being the ex René Pierre-Alie F3 chassis raced in 1970, and
it was run as a works entry. We used a twin cam and Firestone YB11 tyres and it started not too badly, but by mid season the BDA was being widely used, which we couldn’t afford, and Tony was struggling so I took it away and ran it myself with the car becoming even more uncompetitive. Thus the car came into my hands and I ran it in ’72 and, as correctly posted, in May ’73 at Mallory went backwards into the retaining wall on the entry to Gerards with a good bang tearing off one side and cracking my scapoid and that was that for ’73. The car lay under a sheet until I moved house in ’90 when I started an 11 year rebuild and finally raced it again in Oct ’02, my first race for 27 years. I have tried to use as much as is safely possible of the original car but the big difference is fitting a BDA plus using slick/wets. It is probably the most genuine car in its class out there. Question is, is it any faster with another 30 bhp plus slicks? Mallory and Thruxton are the only unchanged circuits that I’ve been to and disappointingly at Mallory I only equalled my old time practice, a wet race prevented any improvement, but at Thruxton it was over 4 secs faster in practice but a broken plug prevented any improvement in the race, there was at least another second to come. James Denty has tested it and I’m convinced a young driver would improve on me by probably 2 secs.

Other Kitchiners that I know of are, as posted, Paul Gibbs’ immaculate restoration up in Kings Lynn, the ex David Mclaughlin one, photo in this thread, and I think a couple more with parts at Martin Stretton Racing and owned by Simon Bull. The other F5000 photo on this thread is the Kitchmac, being a McLaren M10B modified by Tony for Gordon Spice. The first 5000 I drove at a damp Silverstone on slicks. Wow, never forgotten it! I stand to be corrected on any of this. As to my Trojan, that’s another post. Sorry for this long one.

#33 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 13:54

Welcome Patrick!

#34 SEdward

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 14:19

Wasn't a drawing of this car on the cover page of the very first issue of "Competition Car"?

Edward

#35 ian senior

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 15:10

Good to see you here with us, Patrick!

#36 Sharman

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 15:27

As a newcomer I have just happened on this thread and note the comments reference Rolls Royces reaction to the use of their engines in competition. Any one remember the Marina ? I think that was jumped on but perhaps in that case RR had a point. Was there a marine development of the RRV8 and was that why the car was so named?

#37 Patrick Sumner

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 15:40

Originally posted by EDWARD FITZGERALD
I have a notion that I read somewhere that Tonys core business was building specialised camera vehicles for the film industry


Oh yes, I overlooked this in my lengthy screed. He built a flat platform with the driver cell on one side. I'm pretty sure it was powered by the 4.5 litre Daimler V-8. The cameraman could set up on the platform and strap himself in position, a bit like wing walking I imagine, and the thing could tear along a some speed, 100 mph I think. I saw this machine once at the Arches. Tony was, and I hope still is, pretty innovative. Ask Gordon Spice about the fibreglass wheels!

#38 ian senior

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 07:59

Originally posted by Sharman
As a newcomer I have just happened on this thread and note the comments reference Rolls Royces reaction to the use of their engines in competition. Any one remember the Marina ? I think that was jumped on but perhaps in that case RR had a point. Was there a marine development of the RRV8 and was that why the car was so named?


Rings a bell - was it a sports racer from about 1963, driven by Jim Blumer? I've got a picture of it in a magazine somewhere. And was it later fitted with a Chevy V8?

#39 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 08:28

There is a photo of the camera platform,in Race and Rally magazine , looks very workmanlike .

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#40 Sharman

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 09:42

Originally posted by ian senior


Rings a bell - was it a sports racer from about 1963, driven by Jim Blumer? I've got a picture of it in a magazine somewhere. And was it later fitted with a Chevy V8?



Ian
I can't recall the Chevy but Jimmy Blumer is right. I was asked to find a V8 Rolls as a write off so that ithe power unit could be installed in a suitable(?) chassis. The project died on its' feet, I didn't even get my expenses.
JSF

#41 Patrick Sumner

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 12:04

Originally posted by Mallory Dan


I think Pat Sumner had a Trojan in later F5000 years. Described as a 'Trojan Sumner Aero Bonner T101', anyone know what all these mean ?


Yes, by the end of '74 my 2 Alan Smith carb engines were getting tired particularly the heads, always a weak point, and the blocks. So for '75 I bought 2 new heads and a new block to put all the other gear into. I blueprinted the block using the facilities at Aero Bonner run by my old friend Bill Bonner at Shoreham Airport, where today he still operates an engine building and testing business. As an ex-Weslake employee he was able to direct the heads to a retired Weslake man who did a fantastic job and it was the punchiest engine I ever had. Hence the rather lengthy 'Sumner Aero Bonner' engine credit.

Twin Window, nice shot showing the paintwork. We actually totally resprayed and it wasn't not based on the STP red as we used metallic finish. Custom City, Chichester was run by an old friend Richard Park & his help and that of his colleagues was invaluable and enabled me to run the car. From that they started doing work for Mike Earle when he ran the Lec Team for David Purley and made and repaired fibrglass mouldings, etc. and Mike Rutherfoord of CC went on to work for Mike Earle in Littlehampton. Wolfgang Klopher sent me your photo plus a close up on the grid and said they came from an ex-Steve Thompson mechanic, is that you? Did we know each other in a previous life!

#42 David Force

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 14:50

Patrick,

You are quite correct, a set of the fibreglass wheels still exists, horrendous !

Not quite up to the standard of the modern carbon fibre wheels but did show how innovative Tony Kitchiner could be.

David Force

#43 Patrick Sumner

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Posted 24 May 2006 - 08:37

David

I'm intrigued. Where & how have they survived. I'm seeing Gordon Spice in a couple of weeks time and I'm sure he will be amused to hear of their existence, I can't quite remember whether he actually tested them or declined for obvious reasons!

#44 crossle51f

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 20:05

I owned 2 kitchiners in the late 80s early 90s. ch 02 was the ex Badan car and came from Roger Hurst c/w the fibre glass "memory "wheels. They tended to leak around the rims a bit.Roger knew this and gave me a new set of dymags.The dymags were no problem. The other almost rolling chassis (in a box) I bought from Jem Marsh.

#45 Patrick Sumner

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:41

What has happened to your cars? I have a few names of Kitchiner owners, one of which is Peter Swan. Is that you? I would like to get up to date on owners.

Patrick S

#46 Lotus 45

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 16:33

I can offer this picture of Spice in the Kitchiner K3A (which appears in the F5000 Chapter of Motor Racing at Oulton Park in the 1960s!). It was taken in March 1970 at the Oulton Good Friday meeting.
Peter McFadyen

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#47 crossle51f

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 14:45

Ralph Ledamun, You sat in my car at the Silverstone Motor Sport F1/F5000 race meeting, 1990? It was wet! You were thinking of refurbishing your atlantic at the time.

The other car was the ex John Piper/Brooks car ,the tub was an new K2 , inb front susp side rads and a fullwidth nose , raced I believe as a K4H and is now at Terrington St Clemant. My car 02 went back to Roger Hurst in a series of deal as a basic rolling chassis and eventually on to David Mclaughlin At some point after it left me the chassis was cut off at the rear bulk head and much modified.

I believe Ian Ashleys K2 was modified back and forth fromF3 to F2 to Atlantic to F5000, Barbara Cowell was an optioned driver at some point

I think that the Spice car went to Rob Taylor and on to Brian Ridout for more races and hills ,it then went to the keeper of the scrolls Christopher Dennis .Christopher sold it to Simon Bull about 4/5years ago.

#48 Patrick Sumner

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 16:14

Ah Ralph, it's you! I should have guessed. A wet Silverstone, now that's odd! Anyway thank for that, I have seen Paul Gibb's ex-Piper car at Terrington St Clemant when I supplied him with a nose cone. When he finally finds the time to finish the car it will be an immaculate restoration. Simon Bull I have spoke to on a few occasions. You should get the 'keeper of the scrolls' to put all his knowledge in writing for posterity!

Best wishes Patrick

#49 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 17:49

Would the keeper of the scrolls be willing to put a web page together on the Kitchiners?

I'd be happy to publish a history of them all on OldRacingCars.com.

Allen

#50 Cirrus

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 18:01

I have a bizarre fascination for motor racing oddities. Tony Kitchiner bought the Nemo project from Brendan McInerney at the end of 1970, for peanuts. I thought the car had some potential (although I know that Patrick Sumner found the cockpit too smal). Does anyone know what became of the car(s)?