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1934 questions


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#1 Kvadrat

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 09:35

According to Discovery Channel's Nazi Grand Prix feature Seaman's win in Prix de Berne was overshadowed by death of his team mate. Seaman won Bern voiturette race in 1934 and 1935, and I think it happened in 1934. There're no mentions on fatal crash in Prix de Berne, but in main race, Suiss Grand Prix, British driver Hugh Hamilton was killed. Was he Seaman's team mate? There's a mention at The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing, that Hamilton races for Straight team. According to Quintin Claud's page, his starting number was 40. This corresponds to one of Nazi Grand Prix' pictures.

Posted Image Posted Image
Copyright - Discovery Channel, source - Nazi Grand Prix

But Seaman's car number in race statistics (86) is different from film's picture.

Posted Image
Copyright - Discovery Channel, source - Nazi Grand Prix

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 10:28

Both were associated with the Straight team

#3 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 12:19

That's certainly Seaman in a K3 Magnette, but I'd guess the picture was probably taken at Donington or Brooklands - those small printed numbers are typical of 1930s British practice.

#4 Kvadrat

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 09:40

Trying to find correct date for LAT picture from 1934 August Bank Trophy I found this page explaining bank holidays: http://www.woodlands...nkholidays.html. So 1934 August Bank Holiday meeting should be on August 27. But... There's a qustion: does this holiday take place on last Monday of the month or on Monday after last Sunday?

#5 Darren Galpin

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 09:46

Would have to be the last Monday. If it was after the last Sunday, then Sunday could be August 31st and it would become September bank holiday on the Monday, and we can't have that.

#6 Geoff E

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:08

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Trying to find correct date for LAT picture There's a qustion: does this holiday take place on last Monday of the month or on Monday after last Sunday?


Neither (in 1934) :)

August Bank Holiday was the FIRST Monday in August until a change in 1971 when it became the LAST Monday in August.

http://www.tuc.org.u...tuc-8109-f0.cfm

#7 Kvadrat

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 01:04

So August 6, 1934?

#8 Geoff E

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 06:52

Originally posted by Kvadrat
So August 6, 1934?


That should be correct.

#9 Marc Ceulemans

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 21:56

BARC Bank Holiday August Meeting (Brooklands), 6 August 1934

1)- Junior Short Handicap, 6.5 miles
1- Ashton-Rigby, A. (MG 1087 cc)
2- Delaney, C. T. (Lea Francis 1496 cc)
3- Green, G. L. (MG 747 cc)

13 starters

2)- Senior Short Handicap, 6.5 miles
1- Everitt, W. E. (MG 747 cc)
2- Clayton, H. T. H. "Harry" (Clayton-Amilcar 1093 cc)
3- Gardner, Major A. T. G., MC (MG 1087 cc)

13 starters

3)- Lightning Short Handicap, 6.5 miles
1- Bertram, Oliver (Delage 10688 cc)
2- Cobb, John R. (Alfa Romeo 8C-2300 Monza 2336 cc)
3- Donkin, P. L. (MG 1087 cc)

8 starters

4)- 1st Mountain Handicap, 6 miles
1- Letts, D. N. (MG 747 cc)
2- Appleton, R. J. W. (Appleton Special 1089 cc)
3- Beaver, Dr R. A. (Vauxhall 30/98 4234 cc)

15 starters

5)- 2nd Mountain Handicap, 6 miles
1- Cook, Humphrey W. (ERA A 1090 cc n°14)
2- Driscoll, L. P. (Austin 747 cc)
3- Donkin, P. L. (MG 1087 cc)

15 starters

6)- 1934 Brooklands Championship, 11.75 m
1- Cobb, John R. (Napier Railton 12 cylindres 139.7 x 130.2 mm 23970 cc)
2- Froy, Dudley (Bugatti T54-54203 Tiger Two 4975 cc)
3- Bertram, Oliver (Delage 10688 cc)

4 starters

7)- Junior Long Handicap, 9 miles
1- Humphreys, W. E. (Alvis 1496 cc)
2- Levy, L. (MG 747 cc)
3- Thompson, W. L. Jr (Austin 747 cc)

17 starters

8)- Senior Long Handicap, 9 miles
1- Munday, R. J. (Lealand-Thomas 7266 cc)
2- Clayton, H. T. H. "Harry" (Clayton-Amilcar 1093 cc)
3- Selby, T. V. G. (Bugatti 1990 cc)

14 starters

9)- Lightning Long Handicap, 9 miles
1- Fothringham, T. S. (Bugatti 2263 cc)
2- Bertram, Oliver (Delage 10688 cc)
3- Selby, T. V. G. (Bugatti 1990 cc)

8 starters

10)- 3rd Mountain Handicap
1- Esson-Scott, A. (Bugatti 1990 cc)
2- Mays, Raymond (ERA A R1A 1486 cc)
3- Staniland, Flight Lieutenant Chris S. (Bugatti 2263 cc)

13 starters

11)- 4th Mountain Handicap
1- Rayson, E. K. (Riley 1089 cc)
2- Wilkinson, W. (MG 1087 cc)
3- Samuel, A. R. (MG 747 cc)

11 starters


Main source: The Times

#10 Kvadrat

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 00:46

Thank you Marc! (also for 1931 results)

#11 Kvadrat

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 02:26

According to Frequency of Occurrences of the Date of Easter 1875 to 2124 1934 Easter was on April 1, so Easter Monday meeting at Brooklands should be on April 2. Captions for pictures http://editorial.get...d=3368923&cdi=0 and http://editorial.get...d=3368897&cdi=0 give April 3. Is Hulton/Getty wrong?

#12 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 12:15

No, Hulton Getty is right, but you seem to have misread the captions, which say March 3rd! That was the correct date for the opening meeting of 1934 as described - not the Easter Monday meeting.

#13 Kvadrat

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:57

Thank you for correction.

Another question is Southport 100 mile race date.

Here are British Pathe film links and caption:

http://www.britishpa...NG ON THE SANDS
http://www.britishpa...hword=Southport

CAR RACING ON THE SANDS 07/06/1934 789.03
Southport - 100 mile car race on sand is organised by the local motor racing club.

#14 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 19:57

Does anyone here know if there were any Dutch drivers in 1934. In the book Renntransporter on page 10 is a paddock shot with no words. I found it to be Nurburgring 1934. The Dutch car in the picture is not a race car but a cabriolet with NL registration.

Secondly , as it is impossible to buy all books , can you recommended any from the "Golden Era" with some paddock shots , especially 1934-35 ?

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 31 March 2010 - 08:45.


#15 Cardenas

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 20:23

Does anyone here know if there were any Dutch drivers in 1934. In the book Renntransporter on page 10 is a paddock shot with no words. I found it to be Nurburgring 1934. The Dutch car in the picture is not a race car but a cabriolet with NL registration.

Secondly , as it is impossible to buy all books , can you recommended any from the "Golden Era" with some paddock shots , especially 1934-35 ?

Thanks in advance.



Hello again Bjørn, I've been looking through some books in order to help you whit that Dutch car, without any result. The 1934 season report is quite short, and they're not too much paddock shots, the photos are mainly from the race, pit stop

I'd recommend you one of these:

"Racing the silver arrows, by Chris Nixon, it covers all the season until WWII, some little biography of all (or almost all) drivers from Mercedes and auto union, real race reports from the newspaper of the era, the race results and the map and location of the races and hill-climbs and lots of photographs of course.

"Silver arrows in camera" by Anthony Pritchard is more or less the same, but it has more photos(the photos in this book look a lot better, plus 8 pages of original colour photos) and less text. It covers all races and hill climbs until WWII, plus a nice chapter from the speed record breaking cars. It has a more ¿large? pre-1934 story, it has a little biography from drivers, and it also covers the 1950 return of Mercedes Benz and a list of the survivor cars, specifications and technical data from the cars, and the rules from Grand Prix formula until WWII.

If I remember correctly this one is a little more expensive, but it's more complete. If you were my neighbour I wouldn't have any problems to lend you the books.

Maybe in amzn or similar :rolleyes: you can find some preview of the books to help you decide.

#16 Rob Ryder

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 07:08

Posted on behalf of Bjørn Kjer

Posted Image

#17 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 07:49

Post 15 , Thanks Miguel ! You do know Leif Snellman fantastic website ?

Post 16 , Here is the picture from "Renntransporter" (no info on copyright)1934 Nurburgring , Note Eugenio Sienas transporter on the right and in the middle the NL "Dutch" car I asked about. Could have been a participant in the smaller races , did not find him/any amongst the "big" ones.

I am looking for this kind of pictures in this "The Golden Era" 1934-1939.

#18 hansfohr

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:25

Here is the picture from "Renntransporter" (no info on copyright)1934 Nurburgring , Note Eugenio Sienas transporter on the right and in the middle the NL "Dutch" car I asked about. Could have been a participant in the smaller races, did not find him/any amongst the "big" ones.

I am wondering if the Dutch car was a competitor in the first place. IMHO it's just another private car finding its way into the paddock.

Prewar motorracing in the Netherlands was virtually non-existent. I only recall the wealthy industrialist Eddie Hertzberger and Harry Herkuleyns competing abroad in the mid 30's with MG Magnette K3's. The former never raced in Germany, the latter made his first acquaintance with the Green Hell in 1936. And of course the cars don't match.

Edited by hansfohr, 02 April 2010 - 09:26.


#19 David McKinney

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:25

More likely a tender car for one of the Dutch drivers, Herkuleyns or Hertzberger. Both were active in 1934, though I have no specific record of either racing at the 'Ring that year

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#20 hansfohr

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:27

More likely a tender car for one of the Dutch drivers, Herkuleyns or Hertzberger. Both were active in 1934, though I have no specific record of either racing at the 'Ring that year

They didn't (read my last post).

Edited by hansfohr, 02 April 2010 - 09:30.


#21 David McKinney

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:34

It wasn't there when I posted mine (note the times) :wave:

I assume you are able to be so sure because you were at the Eifelrennen and German GP in 1934, and noted the additions to the programmes?

#22 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 11:13

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that it could be Herkuleyns. Before he bought the K3 he had a Q-type Midget and the under 800cc races at the Ring are notoriously under-reported. And I agree with David - it looks to be somebody's tender car: the average spectator doesn't carry three spare wheels in the boot!

Edited by Vitesse2, 02 April 2010 - 17:22.


#23 GIGLEUX

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 11:27

In the 1934 Eifelrennen official programme:

n°64 Herkuleyns Harry, Holland, MG, 746


#24 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 13:09

Exactly , who carries that many spare tires in the boot. Thanks.

#25 hansfohr

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 17:04

In the 1934 Eifelrennen official programme:

n°64 Herkuleyns Harry, Holland, MG, 746

That's a very pleasant surprise. And guess what? I found Harry's MG K3 Magnette model which was made by my old Dutch friend Paolo!


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Edited by hansfohr, 02 April 2010 - 17:05.


#26 GIGLEUX

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 17:14

Well but with 746cc it was a Q type. He bought his K3 #3031 from Hertzbeger in may 1939 and owned it till his death in february 1948 (if remembering well).

#27 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 17:33

Well but with 746cc it was a Q type. He bought his K3 #3031 from Hertzbeger in may 1939 and owned it till his death in february 1948 (if remembering well).

Difficult to tell on a small model of course, but I'm sure you're correct there Jean-Maurice and that it represents the Midget rather than a Magnette. The Q-type is difficult to distinguish from the early K3s, but K3031 was one of the later cars which were supplied without either a passenger seat or an aero screen on the passenger side - the model has both!


#28 hansfohr

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 18:18

Although Herkuleyns acquired Hertzenberger's K3 Magnette in 1939 he entered an identical car at Bremgarten in 1934.

#29 GIGLEUX

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 18:31

Although Herkuleyns acquired Hertzenberger's K3 Magnette in 1939 he entered an identical car at Bremgarten in 1934.


I have him with n°74 MG Q-type (Midget), #QA0253.


#30 Rob G

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 00:30

Prewar motorracing in the Netherlands was virtually non-existent. I only recall the wealthy industrialist Eddie Hertzberger and Harry Herkuleyns competing abroad in the mid 30's with MG Magnette K3's. The former never raced in Germany, the latter made his first acquaintance with the Green Hell in 1936. And of course the cars don't match.

There was also J. Walter Rens, who drove a Bugatti in the 1936 German GP. However, I have no record of anything he did before or after that, except for being a non-starter in the Eifel GP that same year.

#31 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 11:29

Maybe the following article about Hans Herkuleyns is of some interest. It was published in the newspaper "Amersfoortsch Dagblad / De Eemlander" on 1 February 1935.

Over the winter well-known Dutch racing driver Hans Herkuleyns has been working on his racing car, a 750cc MG, with help of his mechanics J. Zegger jr and F. Scheffer, in order to compete successfully in several races in the upcoming season.

As you know, Herkuleyns participated in several foreign races last season, but due to various circumstances the results were not particularly good. At least not until the end of the season, when he managed to beat the world record over the kilometre with standing start at Montlhéry. However, this record, which he brought to approximately 113 km/h, was broken not much later at Brooklands in England by Average, also with an MG, who raised it to about 119 km/h.

After racing with his car for a year, Herkuleyns is very familiar with the car and engine. He knows what is possible, but also that several improvements have to be implemented in order to get even more from the car.

First of all, Herkuleyns and his helpers made some technical improvements in the past months, which they hope will gain about 6 to 7 km/h in top speed. After the RAI exposition [in Amsterdam], where the MG will be on display, Herkuleyns will leave for England, to have the bodywork rebuilt into a streamlined model by Atkins in Surbiton. With this improvement he hopes to gain a further 10 to 12 km/h.

In this sense we understand that Herkuleyns will try to beat the world records over the standing and flying kilometre and mile when the season commences. The course on which the record attempt will likely be held is in Bonheiden near Mechelen (Belgium), where there is a beautiful 5 km long, dead straight road.

As for participating in several races, it is certain Herkuleyns will enter the Avusrennen on 26 May, the Eifelrennen at the Nürburgring on 16 June, and the Kesselbergrennen (Germany) on 30 June. Furthermore on the programme are the French Grand Prix for small cars on 23 June, the Swiss Grand Prix in Bern on 25 August, the Dutch Grand Prix in Heerlen on 15 September, and finally Herkuleyns will also race at the Brooklands track in England and in the annual Klausenpassrennen in Switzerland.