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Personal photos from the track


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#4351 jj2728

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:40

Nice shot


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#4352 Marc Sproule

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 16:49

Since I last posted here I've added a fair number of images to my flickr account.

Approximately 1400 images now, roughly 70k more to go through and post the good ones.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.flickr.co...681980@N03/sets



#4353 mrut29

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 18:13

Been away for a while firgured I would share some more photos I've taken at the track. These are from the Long Beach Grand Prix 1980 I belive

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#4354 mrut29

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 18:15

From the Long Beach Grand Prix 1980

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#4355 mrut29

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 18:17

Last one for today 1980 or 81 Long Beach Grand Prix

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#4356 Tim Murray

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 18:46

Mrut, your first two photos are from 1982 - de Cesaris and Henton - and the third is Niki Lauda from 1979.

#4357 mrut29

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 21:08

Mrut, your first two photos are from 1982 - de Cesaris and Henton - and the third is Niki Lauda from 1979.


Thanks I should know better but the brain cells are fading

#4358 andrea

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 15:38

Excellent pictures, mrut29 (especially that of Andrea de Cesaris). Many thanks. Hope you will send more.

#4359 mrut29

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 16:24

Here's a few more for today. Given yesterdays input this should be the 82 Long Beach Grand Prix

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#4360 mrut29

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 16:26

82 again at the LBGP my guess is Roberto Guerrero

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#4361 mrut29

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 16:27

Last one for today the 82 again with Gilles

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#4362 mrut29

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 20:32

More LBGP 77 I think Lafitte in the Ligier

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#4363 mrut29

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 20:33

82 LBGP Mansell in the Lotus

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#4364 mrut29

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 20:35

Last one for the day 82 again and I think it's DeAngelis if memory serves correctly

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#4365 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 21:07

Last one for the day 82 again and I think it's DeAngelis if memory serves correctly

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Emphasises just how far forward the driver was in 1982...

#4366 mrut29

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 21:46

Emphasises just how far forward the driver was in 1982...


I was thinking that very same thing

#4367 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:07

Moi aussi!

#4368 alansart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:36

Emphasises just how far forward the driver was in 1982...


I seem to recall Michael Schumacher was given the opportunity of demonstrating an early 80's F1 Ferrari. He did so reluctantly and slowly as he thought it was extremely dangerous and he valued his legs!!


#4369 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:48

I seem to recall Michael Schumacher was given the opportunity of demonstrating an early 80's F1 Ferrari. He did so reluctantly and slowly as he thought it was extremely dangerous and he valued his legs!!


Speaks volumes about the relationship between safe cars & dangerous driving and dangerous cars & safe driving!

Would MS have driven in the 'questionable' way he so often did if he hadn't felt invulnerable behind the wheel?

#4370 Barry Boor

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:56

In a word, NO.


#4371 alansart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:57

Speaks volumes about the relationship between safe cars & dangerous driving and dangerous cars & safe driving!

Would MS have driven in the 'questionable' way he so often did if he hadn't felt invulnerable behind the wheel?


Exactly. It's one of the problems that can occur when racing cars become 'Too Safe' (If that's possible?).




#4372 B Squared

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 13:20

Last one for today the 82 again with Gilles
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This was the last weekend I saw Gilles race; albeit with the wing configuration that eventually saw him DQ'ed from his third place finish.

For what it's worth, I'm in agreement with the Schumacher assessment. I feel that many drivers in many formulas would look at their driving techniques differently if they weren't so confident in their ability to simply walk away from a crash and grab the next car in the garage without consequence.

#4373 kayemod

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 13:55

For what it's worth, I'm in agreement with the Schumacher assessment. I feel that many drivers in many formulas would look at their driving techniques differently if they weren't so confident in their ability to simply walk away from a crash and grab the next car in the garage without consequence.


Very true, and that also applies to the 'make our roads safer' argument for replacing the airbag that resides in the centre of steering wheels with a metal spike. I'd agree with anyone who claimed that features like ABS, ESC and modern tyres etc have instilled a false sense of security in under-skilled drivers that have made everyday driving more dangerous to no claims bonus car and blood pressure damage, if not so much to life and limb.

#4374 Duc-Man

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 17:34

Very true, and that also applies to the 'make our roads safer' argument for replacing the airbag that resides in the centre of steering wheels with a metal spike. I'd agree with anyone who claimed that features like ABS, ESC and modern tyres etc have instilled a false sense of security in under-skilled drivers that have made everyday driving more dangerous to no claims bonus car and blood pressure damage, if not so much to life and limb.


:up:

And then you also have car magazines praising the foolproof set-up of a road car and bit**ing about the non availabe ESP in the next sentence. :well:

#4375 mrut29

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:39

Many years ago I raced dirt track sprint cars and those had a similar evolution from non-caged to caged and then the addition of wings that also performed a safety function since they would absorb much of the energy if you go upside down. I definitely saw it as the cars got safer there were drivers much more willing to take it over the limit. I'm not saying improved safety is a bad thing just that it will change driving habits. As far as road going cars go I would contend that improved safety and overall car quality has lead to a reduction in driver attention. If you were in your late 60's American muscle car and going 80-90 MPH you had better be paying attention, nowadays you have soccer moms driving their mini-vans at those speeds talking on the cell phone not giving the task of driving the attention it deserves.

#4376 mrut29

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:43

More from the LBGP, those with better memory's then I will know who is in the March

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#4377 mrut29

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:45

James Hunt's McLaren M23 from the very first F1 LBGP in 76. The first LBGP in 75 ran F5000 where I got to see Tony Brise before he got killed in the plane crash

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#4378 mrut29

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:46

Last one for today, Lauda in the McLaren 1982

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#4379 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:05

Very true, and that also applies to the 'make our roads safer' argument for replacing the airbag that resides in the centre of steering wheels with a metal spike. I'd agree with anyone who claimed that features like ABS, ESC and modern tyres etc have instilled a false sense of security in under-skilled drivers that have made everyday driving more dangerous to no claims bonus car and blood pressure damage, if not so much to life and limb.

In a way all this 'driver aids' cause accidents. As so many drivers have no idea of the cars abilitys.
Or they get in another car without all the gadgets and crash, especially ABS as they just rush up to a corner/intersection, jump all over the brakes, lock up, PANIC and surrender and crash.
Though the electronic gadgets cause problems too. faulty ABS that either locks all 4 with a gentle application, or the pedal goes hard.Especially it seems Euro cars and bikes. And ultimatly ABS will always increase braking distances, for a good driver the difference between a crash or not on occasion.
Electronic stability junk that reacts all wrong when towing. Something I never want, and would disconect immediatly as I conside it dangerous.I can drive better than a computer!! Especially as I can see the situation.
And airbags that go off on a rough road, or a very minor bump and do more damage to the driver than even an unsecured driver. Or knock kids heads off in the front seat.
I dont know how little people go, or even just small 'normal' people. Airbags in particular that may suit my 6,1 16 stone frame may not suit a friends 6 stone 4'10". In fact they do not. So are largely useless for her at least, probably dangerous.
I saw a minor accident where the car had spun off a hills road, 4 airbags had gone off, except the drivers one!! On a single occupant car. Probably wrote the car off, damage to the car was not severe but replacing all those airbags would be prohibitive. Making everyones insurance dearer.

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#4380 275 GTB-4

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:19

Emphasises just how far forward the driver was in 1982...


Or how much further the rear wheelbase extended?....compare this against current F1 and look at relationship of Helmet and front wheel (probably much the same)....of course the current model has an extended nose which (hopefully) has a deformable safety structure which Schummi would no doubt approve of :up:

#4381 alansart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:22

More from the LBGP, those with better memory's then I will know who is in the March

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Raul Boesel


#4382 kayemod

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:57

Or how much further the rear wheelbase extended?....compare this against current F1 and look at relationship of Helmet and front wheel (probably much the same)....of course the current model has an extended nose which (hopefully) has a deformable safety structure which Schummi would no doubt approve of :up:


As I think I've pointed out here before, it's only the deformable structure that protects the driver, the position of the wheels is irrelevant. There's no crash protection in wheels or suspension, though clearly such far-forward seating positions increase the risk of injury, there isn't room for much impact-resisting structure in front of the poor occupant.


#4383 275 GTB-4

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:57

As I think I've pointed out here before, it's only the deformable structure that protects the driver, the position of the wheels is irrelevant. There's no crash protection in wheels or suspension, though clearly such far-forward seating positions increase the risk of injury, there isn't room for much impact-resisting structure in front of the poor occupant.


Ummmm Rob, I was replying to simon, did you read that before you replied? and disagree that there's no crash protection in wheels ....of course there is! they can be the first thing that starts dissipating energy when they hit a wall, continue to absorb or deflect energy along with the collapsing suspension, when they shear as they are designed to do etc

To repeat my point, I don't think the driver postion has changed all that much at all....just the length of chassis and bodywork.

Wish I was good at photoshop so that I could overlay a 1980s over a 2013 with crash test dummy cross symbols in the hubs and middle of Drivers helmet... :wave: :up:

#4384 Tim Murray

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:35

To repeat my point, I don't think the driver postion has changed all that much at all....just the length of chassis and bodywork.

The driver definitely sits further back these days (assessed relative to the wheelbase). With the modern front end aerodynamic arrangements, he couldn't really sit any further forward.

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Edited by Tim Murray, 02 February 2013 - 09:38.


#4385 275 GTB-4

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:59

Thanks for that Tim...yes they do sit a little further back...but hardly in the back seat!! Cheers, Mick

#4386 Marc Sproule

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:41

Tony Brise at Long Beach in '75...referred to above.......

http://www.flickr.co...157626135973193

http://www.flickr.co...157626135973193

http://www.flickr.co...157626135973193

A goodly percentage of the images in my F5000 set so far are from that weekend....

http://www.flickr.co...57626135973193/

Edited by Marc Sproule, 02 February 2013 - 17:37.


#4387 Alan Cox

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:30

Donington German Group 5 meeting 1980
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Winner Klaus Ludwig, Zakspeed 1750 Turbo Capri
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2nd place-man Guy Edwards, Kremer Porsche 935 K3

#4388 kento11

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:07

Start of the Aintree 200, 1964

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Jack Sears in a Ford Galaxie won the Saloon Car race and ₤15, Jim Clark was third for ₤5.

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#4389 kayemod

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:41

Start of the Aintree 200, 1964



... Jim Clark was third for ₤5.


Small wonder that Jim thought he had no option but to become a tax exile.


#4390 E1pix

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 20:15

Would MS have driven in the 'questionable' way he so often did if he hadn't felt invulnerable behind the wheel?

In a word, NO.

Exactly. It's one of the problems that can occur when racing cars become 'Too Safe' (If that's possible?).

For what it's worth, I'm in agreement with the Schumacher assessment. I feel that many drivers in many formulas would look at their driving techniques differently if they weren't so confident in their ability to simply walk away from a crash and grab the next car in the garage without consequence.

I'd agree with anyone who claimed that features like ABS, ESC and modern tyres etc have instilled a false sense of security in under-skilled drivers that have made everyday driving more dangerous to no claims bonus car and blood pressure damage, if not so much to life and limb.

Many years ago I raced dirt track sprint cars and those had a similar evolution from non-caged to caged and then the addition of wings that also performed a safety function since they would absorb much of the energy if you go upside down. I definitely saw it as the cars got safer there were drivers much more willing to take it over the limit.

Couldn't agree more, Guys! If climbing a mountain meant being roped to a 'copter or fighting bulls from a barrel, I suspect Hemingway would have changed his quote.

This is why I rarely imbibe in debates of "Clark or Schumacher, who's best?" No comparison, 'cause there's no way to compare what the carbon parachute does for attachments and thus, true skill behind the wheel. This ain't football.

I'm a longtime and occasional karter so am biased, but anyone who can run a kart at 125 mph has a ton more bravery than someone strapped into a cocoon. Biggest balls in the current age of motor sport? GP bike racers and road race karters, hands down for me. Vintage guys have all my respect, too. [ Edit: Salut, Mr. Redmond :cry: ]

Edited by E1pix, 22 February 2013 - 20:18.


#4391 MCS

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 22:31

Dear kento11

Please keep posting your pictures! They are wonderful and I, at least, appreciate them. :up:



#4392 bradbury west

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 00:35

Dear kento11

Please keep posting your pictures! They are wonderful and I, at least, appreciate them. :up:


http://forums.autosp...w...=142418&hl=
Roger Lund

#4393 kento11

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 16:21

Dear kento11

Please keep posting your pictures! They are wonderful and I, at least, appreciate them. :up:

Thanks for your kind words. They have been taken over years, with less then state of the art cameras. I have moved house recently and I know there are a few more in that elusive shoe box, if I ever find it, I will post some. How about this, the RAF Red Arrows? flying lower then my seat in the grand stands, either 1974 or 1978

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#4394 philrob

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:08

Kento,

great pictures here and at your blog, i find the Aintree pictures to be very emotive as i live not too far from it.
I have recently released a Sim version of Aintree for Rfactor and GTL games on PC, these photos provide me with further evidence of objects and logos for my next update .I hope that you are able to find more pictures as they are very hard to find in colour at this early period in the UK.Britain still favoured black and white then.

regards
phil

#4395 pete53

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:34

Thanks for your kind words. They have been taken over years, with less then state of the art cameras. I have moved house recently and I know there are a few more in that elusive shoe box, if I ever find it, I will post some. How about this, the RAF Red Arrows? flying lower then my seat in the grand stands, either 1974 or 1978

I remember that display - scarily thrilling. I have been saying to people for a number of years that, owing of modern day safety dictats, Red Arrows displays are not quite so spectacular as they once were. I was beginning to wonder if perhaps I was kidding myself but that photo shows otherwise. Of course I should never have doubted my memory as I was in Brighton in 1980 the day one of the Arrows pitched into sea - the reason? It clipped the tip of the mast of a yacht, which proves just how low they flew in those days.

#4396 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:17

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:eek: Christ...... that is deeply impressive/scary .... :up: :up: :up:

#4397 kayemod

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:40

:eek: Christ...... that is deeply impressive/scary .... :up: :up: :up:


It looks scary now, but I wonder if any of us would have thought that at the time, before we'd all been conditioned by Elf'n Safety?


#4398 john winfield

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 13:06

It looks scary now, but I wonder if any of us would have thought that at the time, before we'd all been conditioned by Elf'n Safety?


Perhaps we just lacked imagination Rob!
That Red Arrows display was exciting to say the least, and I don't ever remember one of the planes flying so low at a Grand Prix before or since. Was the Harrier a different year? Now that was impressive, and very funny as guests and hospitality units felt the full force of its thrust...


#4399 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 13:37

The Harrier and the Red Arrows at Brands were brilliant, but unlike Rob I did find it pretty frightening to watch. The present day display at Silverstone can't come close for excitement - Brands always seemed so much more intimate. However, in more modern times, the scariest air displays at a race track had to be the ones done by a russian pilot at Motegi every year just prior to the Indycar race, which included coming along the front straight in a specialist aerobatics plane with the wing tip just about skimming the ground. Ultimately, of course, he came to a sticky end somewhere.

This kind of thing, but above a full pit lane:


Edited by Nigel Beresford, 26 February 2013 - 13:42.


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#4400 kayemod

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 14:01

The Harrier and the Red Arrows at Brands were brilliant, but unlike Rob I did find it pretty frightening to watch.


Ah, I didn't mean that I wouldn't have found it scary if I'd been there, just pointing out that attitudes to this kind of thing have changed greatly over the years, and maybe in some respects we've all gone a little too far the other way, today's Red Arrows displays are very much tamer than they used to be. I was in Germany at the time of the Ramstein disaster, second worst occurrence of its kind ever I think, an even greater disaster took place at a display in Russia, but I can well remember the impact that the Ramstein thing had in Germany at the time, it was massive, I think that the loss of life and injuries were comparable to Le Mans 55 weren't they?