Jump to content


Photo

Unraced non-F1 cars & engines


  • Please log in to reply
173 replies to this topic

#51 alessandro silva

alessandro silva
  • Member

  • 756 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 26 September 2002 - 17:27

I'd like to know something about the Cowell-Aspin 12 cylinder of about 1946/47.
The Cowell here is Bob/Roberta Cowell.

Advertisement

#52 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,876 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 26 September 2002 - 17:45

Originally posted by alessandro silva
I'd like to know something about the Cowell-Aspin 12 cylinder of about 1946/47.
The Cowell here is Bob/Roberta Cowell.


So, I suspect, would the people who put money into it ... :rolleyes:

#53 VAR1016

VAR1016
  • Member

  • 2,825 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 26 September 2002 - 22:31

Originally posted by Vitesse2


So, I suspect, would the people who put money into it ... :rolleyes:


:rotfl:

PdeRL

#54 Alvega

Alvega
  • Member

  • 150 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 28 September 2002 - 20:35

Did anyone mention already the Matra V6 Biturbo (early 80s IIRC).

#55 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 28 September 2002 - 21:36

Originally posted by Alvega
Did anyone mention already the Matra V6 Biturbo (early 80s IIRC).


Yep, can't remember why they pulled it though - was Guy Ligier being his
usual charming self?

pete

#56 Philip Whiteman

Philip Whiteman
  • Member

  • 143 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 08 October 2002 - 07:33

What about Hewland's sleeve-valve flat-four?

I first heard of this from Ted Martin, of Martin V-8 fame. A former RAF pilot, Ted was very keen on the idea of a F1 sleeve-valve engine himself.

Then, five to ten years ago--when I was formulating a research proposal on sleeve-valve engines--I got in touch with Hewland senior via the works. He told me the engine had run, and that making the sleeves was not nearly as difficult as the old Napier and Bristol aero engine saga would suggest. He also said that there was still one engine around, and perhaps it could be made to run. (I should add that Hewland junior was not keen on people bothering the old man, who had made himself ill through overworking.)

Sadly, my proposal came to naught and I never got to see the Hewland engine!

#57 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 04 April 2004 - 11:03

I'm working on a complete list of the F2 cars from 1.964 to 1.984 (the 1.948-1.960 period is more difficult !!!)

I've found a lot of F2 specification cars, or projects, that never raced in a F2 event:

1.965
Ginetta G8

1.966
Brabham BT11/BMW 2.000 Apfelbeck

1.967
Pilbeam R9

1.968
Abarth 2.000 F Libre
Lotus 57
LAB

1.970
De Sanctis 1601

1.971
BMW project
Huron

1.972
Allegrini SM

1.973
Crosslé 26F
Veglia Hill Climb

1.974
Van Holl VHM0001
Helle-Saab project
Horag HAS7
Royale RP20

1.976
Sana RD9

1.978
Martini Mk25 Hill Climb

1.979
Martini Mk28 Hill Climb
Mirage M1

1.980
Stadler

1.981
Pilbeam MP46


Does anyone know anymore "F2 car that never raced" ????


Thaks in advance,
Rafa

#58 jph

jph
  • Member

  • 370 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 04 April 2004 - 14:19

This could be a really interesting thread. I can't think of any other cars off hand, but what became of the Weslake-developed engine based on the Rootes 1725cc block, announced (IIRC) in 1968. Did it ever get drawn up? Where any ever built/ Did it ever run? Or was it just a rumour?

#59 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 04 April 2004 - 16:00

As posted elsewhere, the Martini MK28 was raced by Fredy Amweg in Swiss circuit races as well.

From memory, I think the GRS of ex-Maurer man Günther Richter never raced. I'm sure there were others, will think about it.

Advertisement

#60 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 04 April 2004 - 16:08

Originally posted by fines From memory, I think the GRS of ex-Maurer man Günther Richter never raced. I'm sure there were others, will think about it.

The GRS TC001 ran at least at the XV Deutschland Trophy 1981

#61 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 04 April 2004 - 23:29

Slightly later, but the Vision and Magnum F3 chassis were both laid out with the assumption that they could be turned into F3000 cars.

(And there was that very elongated BMW powered device we saw a few weeks back!)

#62 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 03:43

I've read that Len Terry Leda LT16 was a 1968 F2 project not built....

#63 ghinzani

ghinzani
  • Member

  • 1,990 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 05 April 2004 - 09:20

Originally posted by petefenelon
Slightly later, but the Vision and Magnum F3 chassis were both laid out with the assumption that they could be turned into F3000 cars.

(And there was that very elongated BMW powered device we saw a few weeks back!)


Wainer? didnt that turn into an Interserie car later on?

#64 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:04

Originally posted by ghinzani


Wainer? didnt that turn into an Interserie car later on?


Wagner --

http://forums.atlasf...ht=wagner f3000

Wainer rings a bell - Italian FJ and "screamer" F3 cars?


(Actually, an aside here - in the "two litre years" of F2 and F3, what were the differences in chassis regs between the formulae? - I assume that practically, an F3 was built with much smaller fuel tank for the shorter races and tamer engines they ran, but were there significant differences in the regs - was it feasible to have a basically common tub across the two formulae? Evidence seems to point to it not being a good idea -- It seems that March, for example, generally stuck to the narrow '71 F3 tub when they were successful in F3, but their F2 tubs tended to be dual purpose with GP use possible...)

#65 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:07

I'll have a trawl through Hodges A-Z Of Formula Racing Cars tonight. That lists a number of cars in F1, F2 and F3 that found no customers, were never finished, or for some other reason never took the flag at a race meeting.

(It's no hardship, it's such a fun book to browse!)

#66 ghinzani

ghinzani
  • Member

  • 1,990 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:08

That was it, Wagner - had a straight 6 bmw engine, sure I have a picture in a 1986 Autosport somewhere - it definately later emerged as an either uglier Interserie car with mudguards.

#67 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:10

Yep, follow the link in the posting above, there was a discussion of the Wagner in the thread about early F3000 cars - including a pic of it in "sports car" bodywork (which looked like it'd just been approximately dropped on top of the F3000 car.). I don't think I've ever seen a longer-looking single seater!

#68 Nanni Dietrich

Nanni Dietrich
  • Member

  • 1,237 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 05 April 2004 - 13:47

Allegrini was the name of the sponsor (now Allegrini is back in F. 1 with Minardi), an important italian detergents and car-care products manufacturer. I think the S.M. car was created from a simple March 712.

An other sponsor-name March 712 was the Somalita F2 (bananas brand) , driven by italian Ettore Ricci in 1972 or 1973.

#69 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 14:18

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
Allegrini was the name of the sponsor (now Allegrini is back in F. 1 with Minardi), an important italian detergents and car-care products manufacturer. I think the S.M. car was created from a simple March 712.

An other sponsor-name March 712 was the Somalita F2 (bananas brand) , driven by italian Ettore Ricci in 1972 or 1973.



Certainly looks like March 712 sidepods and body sides under the florid coachwork, doesn't it?

(Other "disguised Marches" appeared in F3 - Eifelland, as well as the legendary F1 exploits, mucked about with some 723s and entered them as Eifellands; after the company pulled out of racing they were later called Rheinlands. And the 813 was later rebadged "Euroracing 101" when it won the Euro F3 series....)

#70 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 05 April 2004 - 14:55

I've often read that the Rheinland was a rebadged Eifelland, but I don't believe that's true. Haven't fully investigated it yet, though.

#71 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 15:19

Originally posted by fines
I've often read that the Rheinland was a rebadged Eifelland, but I don't believe that's true. Haven't fully investigated it yet, though.



Marchives.com (which I take as being pretty definitive on matters Bicesterian) and 8W both make the claim, and I'm pretty sure it's also in Lawrence's March book. I would be interested to see any evidence that the Rheinland isn't an ex-Eifelland 723 though!

#72 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 15:40

Originally posted by fines
I've often read that the Rheinland was a rebadged Eifelland, but I don't believe that's true. Haven't fully investigated it yet, though.



Looking at http://www.formel3gu...tarterliste.htm

the Eifellands seem to have gone on to Erwin Derichs' team, with Henerici entering Rheinlands. Now, if we can find a '74 F3 race with at least three Eifellands and Rheinlands, one of them can't've an originial Eifelland.... unfortunately on the basis of what I can find on formel3guide.com I can't prove that there were ever enough Eifellands or Rheinlands around to prove that they had to be different cars! - could it be that one Eifelland was retained by Henerici and became the Rheinland-Toyota, and the other was sold off to Derichs?


Neibiberg 5/5/74 shows Ertl in a Rheinland (did not arrive) and Derichs in an Eifelland (did not arrive).

Nurburgring on 18/5/74 -

Ertl DNA in a Rheinland, Derichs in an Eifelland

16/6/74....

Ertl turns up! in a Rheinland, Derichs in an Eifelland - still only two cars, no conclusive proof :(

14/7/74...

Derichs DNA in the Eifelland, not even an entry for Ertl!

18/8/74 -
only Ertl in a Rheinland.

1/9/74 -
Only Ertl in a Rheinland...

8/9/74 -
Ertl's there and Derichs DNQs the Eifelland

10/11/74

Henning Schmidt in a Rheinland...

#73 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 05 April 2004 - 15:55

Well, there's not much evidence I can provide here, other than my (feeble) memory that the Rheinland was always described as a "new car" (which may not be saying much), and a somewhat diffuse memory of a picture I have once seen where the car would have been visible in the background, and didn't at all look like a March (which, again, may not be saying much!)! :(

#74 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 16:56

Found at the Rallye Racing 1973 #11 issue the March723-Eifelland, with Rheinland publicity :confused:

Posted Image
Rallye Racing

The description says (sorry i can not read German)


Chassis:
March 723-Eifelland
(Die Finanzierung erfolgte durch Eigenmittel, durch Zuwendungen von Schmierstoff-und Benzinfirmen sowie maBgeblich durch Günther Hennerici, dem damaligen inhaber von Eifelland-Caravan) :confused:


Can anyone traslate ???

#75 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 17:09

"Finance came from their own resources, via allowances (retainers?) from lubricant and petrol firms as well as a significant amount from Günther Henerici, owner at the time of Eifelland Caravans"

AFAIK, Eifelland caravans was bought out in '72 and the new owners weren't at all interested in motorsport - I'm not sure if Rheinland was his new caravan business, or just a name he used to annoy the new owners -- though looking at the picture, I guess it's his new firm ;)

#76 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:08

Here's a list of unraced/unbuilt F2s and F3000s from Hodges, as promised.


Abarth	   1950	n/a   Rumoured dohc v8 for 1950

						   F2.



AMS		  1979	???	More than a passing

						   resemblance to a March

						   782 -- AMS s own V6

						   appeared at Misano  "where

						   it did not come to the

						   grid as its driver, Piero

						   Necchi, was involved in a

						   fracas with a marshal

						   after practice" (!!!).



AMS		  1980	???   "a two-car team was

						   announced for 1980 but

						   failed to materialize"



Amweg		1976	AA1   BMW power. Alfred Amweg

						   DNQ'ed on car's only

						   appearance at Hockenheim

						   76



Balsa		1957-60 ???   "Abortive French project

						   for the second F2 powered

						   by a modified Peugeot

						   engine"   later owned by

						   Henri Julien



BWA		  1966	???   "the F2 version" (of

						   their F3 car) "did not

						   materialise"



Crossle	  1972	22F   "In 1972 the 22F seemed

						   to promise more"  [...]

						   "Brian Nelson drove it to

						   win a formule libre race

						   at Kirkistown, but it did

						   not appear in mainstream

						   F2".



DAMW		 1957-60 ???   (aka EMW) "There were

						   plans to build cars for

						   the 1957-60 F2 but these

						   were squashed"



De Tomaso	1960	???   1.5l De Tomaso-Alfa

						   appeared at the Modena GP

						   but crashed in practice.

						   Later appeared as an F1



De Tomaso	1965	???   "A one litre F2 car

						   shared the erstwhile FJ

						   chassis and was

						   originally presented with

						   a De Tomaso flat-four"

						   DNQed at Rome  64

						   (Bernabei) and 65

						   (Ridolfi)



Elden		1972	PRH16 Appeared as an FAtlantic

						   for Smiley, but designed

						   for F2.



Ensign	   1972	F272? "An F2 version  (of the

						   F3 car)  was built for

						   John Burton" ... "never

						   getting beyond practice

						   in 1972 before it was

						   sold". PIC AVAILABLE.



Ginetta	  1964	G9	"the space frame G9 F2

						   project was stopped"



GRD		  1974-5		Implies that the cars

						   were still available in

						   F2 form but no takers?



Jax		  1976	???   No idea if this raced or

						   not!  "appeared on the

						   fringe of the 1976

						   Japanese national scene

						   driven by German Nico

						   Nicole"



Kaimann	  1974	???   Opel-powered F2

						   spaceframe for Koinigg

						   who raced a Surtees

						   instead



Kaimann	  1976	???   Spaceframe "following

						   Super Vee lines"  for BMW

						   engine, for Quester,

						   failed to appear on a

						   grid



Kieft		1952	??	"One of the original 1950

						   Keift chassis was adopted

						   for an F2 project in

						   1952, beefed up and in

						   effect reversed for the

						   Butterworth flat four

						   engine".  "Insurmountable

						   problems with engine

						   mounting".



Lenham-Hurst ??	  P81	an F2 project (P81)

						   failed to take shape

						   after  72, but Hurst was

						   still using the Lenham

						   name.



Lola		 1972	T242  Update of the T240 for F2

						   /F3   used only in US FB.



Lola		 1977	T550  "A new F2 design for 1977"

						   (a lighter T450

						   basically) - 1 built and

						   Roberto Marazzi gave up

						   after just one DNQ



Lotus				 Mk 7 Completed as the

						   Clairmonte Special



Lotus		1968	57	Very well-documented.



Monaco	   1986	001   The Dywa F1 car,

						   regurgitated



Nardi		1952		  Mid-engined

						   Lancia-powered F2 car

						   pic in Lawrence.



Nemo		 1970	???   F2/3/B multi-purpose car,

						   unsure which formulae it

						   actually raced in?



RBS		  1957	???   "An abortive F2 venture

						   by Rene Berte in 1957

						   he apparently got his

						   special to Reims for the

						   major summer meeting but

						   failed to get it to

						   start".



Van Hool	 1974	???   Built in Spain, "owing

						   something to March".

						   Reported to be complete

						   in Summer 74 but never

						   appeared.



Van Hool	 1976	???   "Nor did the 1976 car,

						   which had torsion-bar

						   suspension and a BMW

						   engine" De Dryver DNQ

						   ed it for one race at

						   Hockenheim.



Vision	   1988	???   F3 car but "F3000 use was

						   in mind"



Wagner	   1987	???   We ve discussed this!



Willys-Gavea 1966	???   See  unraced F1 cars

						   multi-purpose chassis.


#77 Richard Neale

Richard Neale
  • Member

  • 301 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:20

I have an unused Nemo rear upright if anyone wants to recreate the car ?????

Did the Balsa have a wooden chassis ?

#78 petefenelon

petefenelon
  • Member

  • 4,815 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:26

Originally posted by Richard Neale
I have an unused Nemo rear upright if anyone wants to recreate the car ?????

Did the Balsa have a wooden chassis ?


I think Balsa was a chap called Marcel Balsa who pootled around in various BMW-powered F2s in the early 50s.

#79 Richard Neale

Richard Neale
  • Member

  • 301 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:36

Ah ! Balsa by name not by nature !

Advertisement

#80 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 36,889 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 05 April 2004 - 21:10

Originally posted by Richard Neale
Ah ! Balsa by name not by nature !

He may have floated in water.

Tis not right.

#81 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 05 April 2004 - 21:31

Many thanks Petefenelon !!!!!

I'm still working on the F2 1.948-1.960 period, so at the moment i only can talk about 1.964-1.984.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

AMS		  1979	???	More than a passing

						   resemblance to a March

						   782 -- AMS s own V6

						   appeared at Misano  "where

						   it did not come to the

						   grid as its driver, Piero

						   Necchi, was involved in a

						   fracas with a marshal

						   after practice" (!!!).



AMS		  1980	???   "a two-car team was announced for 1980 but

						   failed to materialize"
[/QUOTE]AMS 279

AMS 80



[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Amweg		1976	AA1   BMW power. Alfred Amweg

						   DNQ'ed on car's only

						   appearance at Hockenheim

						   76
[/QUOTE]Amweg AA1



[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

BWA		  1966	???   "the F2 version" (of

						   their F3 car) "did not

						   materialise"
[/QUOTE]BWA F2MA
The italian chassis BWA ran at the F2 Mecanica Argentina with Carlos Reutemann !!!




[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Crossle	  1972	22F   "In 1972 the 22F seemed

						   to promise more"  [...]

						   "Brian Nelson drove it to

						   win a formule libre race

						   at Kirkistown, but it did

						   not appear in mainstream

						   F2".
[/QUOTE]Crosslé 22F
Brian Nelson with the Crosslé 22F.





[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

De Tomaso	1965	???   "A one litre F2 car

						   shared the erstwhile FJ

						   chassis and was

						   originally presented with

						   a De Tomaso flat-four"

						   DNQed at Rome  64

						   (Bernabei) and 65

						   (Ridolfi)



Jax		  1976	???   No idea if this raced or

						   not!  "appeared on the

						   fringe of the 1976

						   Japanese national scene

						   driven by German Nico

						   Nicole"



Kaimann	  1974	???   Opel-powered F2

						   spaceframe for Koinigg

						   who raced a Surtees

						   instead



Kaimann	  1976	???   Spaceframe "following

						   Super Vee lines"  for BMW

						   engine, for Quester,

						   failed to appear on a

						   grid



Lola		 1972	T242  Update of the T240 for F2

						   /F3   used only in US FB.
[/QUOTE]Any pics ????




[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Elden		1972	PRH16 Appeared as an FAtlantic

						   for Smiley, but designed

						   for F2.



Lenham-Hurst ??	  P81	an F2 project (P81)

						   failed to take shape

						   after  72, but Hurst was

						   still using the Lenham

						   name.



Nemo		 1970	???   F2/3/B multi-purpose car,

						   unsure which formulae it

						   actually raced in?
[/QUOTE]No idea !!!!




[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Ginetta	  1964	G9	"the space frame G9 F2

						   project was stopped"
[/QUOTE]This is the same i have as G8 (F3)





[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

GRD		  1974-5		Implies that the cars

						   were still available in

						   F2 form but no takers?
[/QUOTE]There was a GRD 274....









[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Lola		 1977	T550  "A new F2 design for 1977"

						   (a lighter T450

						   basically) - 1 built and

						   Roberto Marazzi gave up

						   after just one DNQ
[/QUOTE]
Lola T550




[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Van Hool	 1974	???   Built in Spain, "owing

						   something to March".

						   Reported to be complete

						   in Summer 74 but never

						   appeared.



Van Hool	 1976	???   "Nor did the 1976 car,

						   which had torsion-bar

						   suspension and a BMW

						   engine" De Dryver DNQ

						   ed it for one race at

						   Hockenheim.
[/QUOTE] Wrong !!! The first Van Hool (VHM0001) was built in 1975. (I'm Spaniard !!)

Van Hool VHM0002 1976
Bernard de Dryver with the Van Hool VHM0002 at Hockenheim '76.





[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon

Willys-Gavea 1966	???   See  unraced F1 cars

						   multi-purpose chassis.
[/QUOTE]The Willys-Gavea was in fact a Brazilian F3. Never showed as F1 or F2.

#82 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:38

I'm also working on a complet list of the 1948-1960 F2 cars :


.... Moved to a new thread


Sorry,
Rafa

#83 Teapot

Teapot
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:00

David Hodges' book also mentions two project that never took shape in metal :

1970 De Sanctis : "Work started on a monocoque F2 project for Jonathan Williams for
1970 but this never appeared"


196? Pallisier WD? : "A Formula Atlantic car which never did appear in the alternative F2
form suggested"



A Titan Mk2 is also listed as F2 project from mid 60's, allegedly never raced

#84 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:46

Many thanks Teapot !!!!

Originally posted by Teapot
David Hodges' book also mentions two project that never took shape in metal :

1970 De Sanctis : "Work started on a monocoque F2 project for Jonathan Williams for
1970 but this never appeared"

Here you have...De Sanctis 1601, 1970 project



Originally posted by Teapot
196? Pallisier WD? : "A Formula Atlantic car which never did appear in the alternative F2
form suggested"



A Titan Mk2 is also listed as F2 project from mid 60's, allegedly never raced

No idea !!!!



Rafa

#85 Cirrus

Cirrus
  • Member

  • 1,533 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:48

The Safir RJ02 (in reality a Motul M1 with different engine bay and bodywork) tested at Goodwood, and practised at the August Silverstone race in 1975, driven by Patrick Neve. It didn't start the race - I can't remember if it was due to an engine problem, or a simple DNQ.

#86 Teapot

Teapot
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:55

Errata Corrige : it's "Palliser " and not "Pallisier"...I'm sorry, my mistake...

#87 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:56

Originally posted by Cirrus
The Safir RJ02 (in reality a Motul M1 with different engine bay and bodywork) tested at Goodwood, and practised at the August Silverstone race in 1975, driven by Patrick Neve. It didn't start the race - I can't remember if it was due to an engine problem, or a simple DNQ.

Was'nt the Safir RJ02 the ex Token RJ02 raced by Trimmer at the 1975 Race of Champions ???

The same type reference (RJ02) to a Motul M1 revised by Ray Jessop ????


Motul = Rondel = Ron Dennis + Neil Trundle. Designer Ray Jessop.
Token= Ron Dennis F1 for Rondel. Designer Ray Jessop.
Safir = John Thorpe. Designer Ray Jessop.


BTW, Any Safir F2 pic ???


Many thanks,
Rafa

#88 Cirrus

Cirrus
  • Member

  • 1,533 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 06 April 2004 - 10:56

I may have got the type number wrong for the F2 Safir - I think I have a copy of the programme at home, so I'll check. I don't have a picture of the F2 Safir, but it looked like a slightly bigger version of the F3 car.

Incidentally, Safir ws run by Peter Thorpe (not John), and Alan England at that time. I'm still in touch with Alan, so I'll see if he has a picture.

#89 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 06 April 2004 - 11:02

Originally posted by Cirrus
I may have got the type number wrong for the F2 Safir - I think I have a copy of the programme at home, so I'll check. I don't have a picture of the F2 Safir, but it looked like a slightly bigger version of the F3 car.

Incidentally, Safir ws run by Peter Thorpe (not John), and Alan England at that time. I'm still in touch with Alan, so I'll see if he has a picture.

You're reason, the Safir F2 was also RJ02, look here:
1975 Silverstone F2


Thanks,
Rafa

#90 jph

jph
  • Member

  • 370 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 06 April 2004 - 18:45

Originally posted by Reyna:
Motul = Rondel = Ron Dennis + Neil Trundle. Designer Ray Jessop.
Token= Ron Dennis F1 for Rondel. Designer Ray Jessop.
Safir = John Thorpe. Designer Ray Jessop.


Wasn't the Token name derived from the two principal financial backers: Tony Vlassopulo and Kenneth Grob? (Bit OT as it wasn't F2, I guess).

#91 Cirrus

Cirrus
  • Member

  • 1,533 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 07 April 2004 - 17:05

Yes - jph is correct about the origin of the Token name. I've now checked my programme for the Silverstone F2 race, and the Safir was listed as RJ02, the same as the Token - strange...

#92 Reyna

Reyna
  • Member

  • 630 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 07 April 2004 - 17:22

Many thanks Cirrus !!!

Another problem of this F2 period was that a Lot of single-seater were built, same chassis, as F Atlantic or 2 ...
So you can see at the 70s Motor Shows a Royale, for exemple, FA/2 that never raced as F2 . As easy as to change the engine you can get an F2 or FA.

All the FA could be F2 ???



Rafa

#93 Cal

Cal
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 18 November 2004 - 06:20

Having a discussion elsewhere and figured you guys would be best to ask. We are talking about race cars that never raced. A few I have come up with.

Maser Bora Group 4 (from other thread, thanks)
Posted Image
Posted Image

XJ13
Posted Image

Ferrari? At Pebble Beach this year.
Posted Image

Thanks,

Cal.

#94 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,756 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:08

Posted Image
Frank Kleinig's Hudson after conversion to single seater for the 1954 Australian Grand Prix at Southport. It never raced again. This photo was taken immediately prior to dismantling to return the body etc to the Maserati whence it came and rebulding of the car into its more or less original form by Tom Roberts

#95 JohnS

JohnS
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 18 November 2004 - 20:59

How about the Williams 6-wheeler? Don't have a pic I'm afraid. Anyone else have one?

John

#96 TIPO61

TIPO61
  • Member

  • 496 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 18 November 2004 - 21:44

Seems like there's a Chaparral missing between the 2H and the 2J.

#97 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,756 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 November 2004 - 21:52

Originally posted by JohnS
How about the Williams 6-wheeler? Don't have a pic I'm afraid. Anyone else have one?


This is one from Racer.Demon's Forix 8w article about them... there are others...

Posted Image

#98 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:19

How about the Ricart designed Alfa Romeo 512?


Carles.

#99 Cal

Cal
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:36

What is that Ray?

Cal.

Advertisement

#100 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,609 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:42

Robin Herd sitting on the March 2-4-0 outside their factory in Bicester, December 1976. Privateer Subaru rally preparation specialists Autosportif now occupy those premises, and my brother runs their engine & gearbox department.

Posted Image

And I parked my car in that precise spot only yesterday! :up:

Ray - I think Cal was asking about the 1950s-looking single seater...