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Unraced non-F1 cars & engines


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#151 Rob G

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 02:51

Originally posted by Peter Morley
Or at least include cars where they constructed some significant components - e.g. the Kieft or Bizzarini F1 (if it is anything like his sportscars I wonder how many 'he' has built by now!!).

Well, someone just showed me this ebay ad for the Bizzarini "Formula One" car (with a Corvette engine), chassis 001, "the only one he made." Interesting little car, and the bidding starts at $1,000 US.

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#152 ian senior

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:10

Originally posted by Rob G

Well, someone just showed me this ebay ad for the Bizzarini "Formula One" car (with a Corvette engine), chassis 001, "the only one he made." Interesting little car, and the bidding starts at $1,000 US.


The world's only 2-door F1 car?

#153 Gokart Mozart

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 19:28

Does anyone know the history of this car, was it ever tested, or was it just a shelved Bizzarrini project?

Respectfully,

Jacques N. Dresang

#154 Peter Morley

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 07:24

Originally posted by Gokart Mozart
Does anyone know the history of this car, was it ever tested, or was it just a shelved Bizzarrini project?

Respectfully,

Jacques N. Dresang


Also what was it built for?
Were they going to reduce the size of the engine to make it a 3 litre F1 car?

#155 Vicuna

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:38

Originally posted by ian senior


The world's only 2-door F1 car?


:lol:

#156 Gerald Ryan

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 08:15

Wasn’t there a three-wheel-drive Ferrari F-1 car with a single steered front wheel, two wheels at the side and a single rear wheel? Or it may have been that the three wheels to the rear were all on a common axle line. I remember reading something about this concept in the ‘90s. It was supposed to be a way to achieve some of the traction advantages of four-wheel-drive and some of the aerodynamic advantages (as claimed for six small wheels).

Does anyone know about this? Are there any photos or drawings?



Thanks & Regards

Gerald

#157 gdecarli

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 12:17

Originally posted by Gerald Ryan
Wasn’t there a three-wheel-drive Ferrari F-1 car with a single steered front wheel, two wheels at the side and a single rear wheel?

It was not a Ferrari, but an idea by Enrique Scalabroni. I posted some pics in message #250 of this thread.

Ciao,
Guido

#158 petefenelon

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 14:35

Originally posted by Gerald Ryan
Wasn’t there a three-wheel-drive Ferrari F-1 car with a single steered front wheel, two wheels at the side and a single rear wheel? Or it may have been that the three wheels to the rear were all on a common axle line. I remember reading something about this concept in the ‘90s. It was supposed to be a way to achieve some of the traction advantages of four-wheel-drive and some of the aerodynamic advantages (as claimed for six small wheels).

Does anyone know about this? Are there any photos or drawings?



Thanks & Regards

Gerald


I've seen those sketches too!

I think it was a typical Autosprint off-season special of the early 90s, although I do recall Enrique Scalabroni saying it was a very practical configuration for an F1 car so it might've been during his time at Maranello. One ruddy great driven wheel (like a motorbike), two outriggers and a front steering wheel - it was essentially a very low, very wide motorbike with stabilisers, IIRC.

Autosprint always seemed to be full of wild racing car schemes in the silly- and off-seasons, Autosport would usually pick up on them a couple of weeks later...

#159 gdecarli

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 14:46

Originally posted by petefenelon
I think it was a typical Autosprint off-season special of the early 90s

I'm not sure what you mean by off-season: are you talking about the winter period without races?

If so, it is not true: this sketches where published at the end of June 1993...

If not... ok I don't understand you!;)

Ciao,
Guido

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#160 Sharman

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 15:39

Drifting away from F1, does anybody remember a spoof Autosport report of a Nassau Speed Week in which various preposterous entries ran including a FLAT 12 Porsche. How ridiculous.
JF

#161 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 16:47

Originally posted by Sharman
Drifting away from F1, does anybody remember a spoof Autosport report of a Nassau Speed Week in which various preposterous entries ran including a FLAT 12 Porsche. How ridiculous.
JF

Not a Flat 12 Porsche, but is this what you were thinking of?

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=18585

#162 Sharman

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 22:21

Roger
I seem to remember a more believable version but don't recall when it was. One of Paddy McNally's efforts?
JF

#163 Alan Cox

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 23:18

I, too, remember a later version, which was reported in both Autosport and Motoring News (IIRC in their Christmas week issues) which must have been late '60s, as key players were Bruce and Denny in McLaren M6s or M8s, while I think a Chaparral or two were also involved in what was a type of super-libre event.

The reports featured photographs which were hard to pinpoint to any particular circuit. and I remember the whole idea working pretty well.

#164 Gerald Ryan

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 08:24

Guido

That's the one. Thank you for the link.

Referring to that 1-2-1 diamond car, now I’ve had an opportunity to think about the vehicle over the holidays, several questions come to mind. I’m most interested in everyone's opinions and comments. Assuming such a car was actually built and raced there is a good possibility that it would be aerodynamically more efficient than a conventional car. It would possibly have more downforce with less drag. BUT how would such a car handle?

A/. Staying with the arrangement where the single front wheel and the single rear wheel articulate to accomplish the steering task (that is the non-paired wheels steer whereas the “axle” pair remain fixed and do not steer), what would happen as the car reached maximum slip angle and then the driver decided to increase the radius of cornering path (that is, reduce lateral acceleration)? In that case he’d be adding to the rear wheel slip angle while simultaneously reducing the front wheel slip angle. What would occur if the rear wheel lost (static) traction because of this? Would the effect of the single rear wheel losing grip dominate? Would the increase in slip angle at the rear tend to over steer the car putting it into a slide or a spin? Or would the combination of the three other wheels act to resist oversteer and slides?

B/. An alternative arrangement would be to keep the single rear wheel fixed while steering the other three. There would need to be some sort of linkage to do this- a sort of modified Ackerman geometry needing to be implemented. Would this be a better arrangement? The designer must have thought about this possibility and perhaps thought not. It would be interesting to understand why.

C/. For a diamond car where the three rear wheels are powered while only the front and rear wheels steer there is no need to have more than one differential unit. The path distance executed by the single rear wheel is always equal to the average of the paths executed by the paired wheels. Hence the rear wheel can be powered from an extension shaft driven from the crown wheel of a differential unit powering the paired wheels. The description given relating to the F-1 diamond car suggests that two differential units were to be untilised. Why so?

And those are my questions. Any comments greatly appreciated!

Thanks & regards

Gerald

#165 bigears

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 15:27

Thought I would contribute a couple of scans from the Motoring News:

Posted Image

Posted Image

#166 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:59

There was a McNally Hesketh planed in the 70s. Is it the same Hesketh as the Hesketh F1 team?

#167 Tim Murray

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:27

Yes. Lord Hesketh backed the engine project for a while, but eventually lost interest. See this earlier thread:

The McNally F1 car

#168 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:41

From Motorsport aktuell: There was a Russian F1 engine planed called Egonomash. Any details about that?

#169 backfire

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 19:14

I remember being shown a BRM P153 rolling chassis in the cellar of Hoar Cross Hall by it's then resident, Bill "Gingerly" Jones (probably around 1974). Bill was intending to fit a Berta V8 for a privateer F1 entry - but it all came to nothing.

#170 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 18:44

Daewoo wanted to enter F1 (South Korean car maker) with an engine from Hart, Lamborghini or Oral.

#171 D-Type

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 21:35

Daewoo wanted to enter F1 (South Korean car maker) with an engine from Hart, Lamborghini or Oral.

When?

#172 HistoryFan

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:35

Sorry, in 1995

Source: Motorsport aktuell

Joe Saward reported rumours in 1999 from Daewoo with Minardi.

#173 Graham Clayton

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 04:14

Not an unraced F1 car, but an unraced Grand Prix car. Alphi was a small French manufacturer who built 4 cars between 1929 and 1931. One of these was a car powered by a 6-cylinder supercharged CIME engine of 1.4 litre capacity, which was built for the 1929 French Grand Prix. Edouard Brisson was the nominated driver, however it was not ready for the race, and AFAIK, never competed in any Grand Prix race. Was the car eventually completed, and did it actually compete at all?



#174 AJB

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 19:05

I, too, remember a later version, which was reported in both Autosport and Motoring News (IIRC in their Christmas week issues) which must have been late '60s, as key players were Bruce and Denny in McLaren M6s or M8s, while I think a Chaparral or two were also involved in what was a type of super-libre event.

The reports featured photographs which were hard to pinpoint to any particular circuit. and I remember the whole idea working pretty well.

 

Apologies for the thread resurrection, but I wasn't a member back in 2006. It must have been Christmas 1970, as the Chaparral 2J featured strongly, but suffered an unfair disadvantage as part of the circuit was on an open-planked pontoon bridge which negated its ground-effects. There were a number of weird cars "entered" including one with a Lycoming (?) aircraft engine. Photos were taken from the magazine archives over the years. It was either the Bermuda or Bahamas GP IIRC and was allegedly held "in camera" as there was a secret summit meeting on the island with all reporters banned hence the lack of any pre-race publicity.



#175 Graham Clayton

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 00:45

Here is a photo and line drawing of the 1500cc DOHC 8-cylinder engine of the 1965 Moskvitch GD-1:

 

mosk-F1engine-firstversion-head_small.jp

 

 

MOSK-F1ENGINE_small2.JPG

 

 

 

http://www.autosovie....org/index3.htm