Posted 26 January 2003 - 03:16
Burt, the search feature is located in the upper right-hand side of the web page, but I didn't see any referrence to its finishing position, though I concede I might have missed it.
This the car, yes? And as you state, it did have a Buick engine for its sole appearance in Australia.
Indications from a reputable source state that it might have had a Chevy installed initially but later accounts agree with your ascertations...
From 8W :
"...RAI designed a rear-engined car with an alloy Chevrolet engine for this formula, but the class never got off the ground and the car's sole appearance was in a race in Australia in 1962..."
From our own Don Capps, Rear View Mirror article:
"...However, the Scarab did run a race in 1962. For reasons not really clear - it was possibly accurately described as a "lark," Lance Reventlow and his entourage showed up in Melbourne, Australia to run a Formula Libre race at the local race circuit, Sandown Park. Chuck Daigh was the driver and head wrench Warren Olson was there to prepare the car for the race. Most of the attention was on Reventlow - son of Woolworth heiress Barbara Hutton and Danish Count Kurt von Haugwitz-Reventlow - and his current wife, Jill St. John, not the car.
The Scarab was still using gasoline to fuel its Buick engine whereas it opponents were in cars using alcohol to power the Coventry Climax FPF engines in the various Lotus and Cooper cars on the grid. Daigh qualified sixth and managed a fourth in a preliminary heat. In the final, Daigh had a spirited battle the entire race with Stirling Moss, nipping across the line ahead of Moss and capturing fourth in the results. And it was then returned to the shop in Venice..."
Posted 26 January 2003 - 03:54
I has always been a tad of a mystery to me as to why the Scarab ICF car was never campaigned during the 1962 USAC Road Racing Championship at least once. I realize that the rear-engined sports car was being built and the effort seemed focused on it, but still..... When the sports car finally emerged it was not as competitive as as hoped and ended up with Mecom the next season.
Back to the ICF car, it really didn't do all that badly considering the circumstances, but at the time I was befuddled and bewildered why it abruptly appeared and then just as abruptly disappeared. I now have a better idea of the workings of RAI at the time and find it sad that they threw in the towel -- much as Briggs Cunningham did many are quick to point out -- at the wrong time, but "other" factors were at work....
Posted 31 May 2003 - 20:17
Posted 31 May 2003 - 20:43
Reventlow hobnobs in the pits at Pomona with the hawk-like Ken Miles, who drew the original chassis plans for the Scarab sports car. Exactly how much he contributed to the final design remains a source of contention, but there's no question that Miles was capable of creating a world-beating special. In fact his MG-based R-1 and Flying Shingle were two of the West Coast's most successful home-built racers. Miles was also an excellent driver, starring in Porsches, Cobras and the Ford prototypes before being killed while testing the experimental Ford J-Car at Riverside in 1966.
Posted 31 May 2003 - 20:59
Posted 02 June 2003 - 04:45
When I was a Tech Inspector(scrutineer to some of you) for the California Sports Car Club region of the Sports Car Club of America i.e Cal Club in the '60s I had the opportunity to watch Miles give driving lessons to Bob Bondurant during practice at Riverside Raceway.
This was 1963 or so and they were both driving works Cobras. They sat on the pit wall and talked for a while before putting their crash hats and going out.
After warming things up, they started going a little faster, and then faster, nose to tail. Then Miles began to pull away by about 2 car lengths a lap.
After about 5 laps of that, they pulled in, took off the helmets and sat on the pit wall and talked for a little while. Then they went out and did the same thing all over again.
After the third time the discussion became a little heated. Helmets back on, Bondurant got in Miles' car and they went out with Miles following Bondurant, nose to tail. After a few laps like this, Miles went around Bondurant(I couldn't see where, from the pits) and came by the pits leading and proceeded to pull away by about 2 car lengths a lap for another few laps. When it was totally clear that nothing was going to change somebody held out the "in" sign and they stopped on the next time around.
Bondurant got out of the car, pulled his helmet off and threw it on the ground so hard it bounced about 15 feet in the air and stalked off.
End of lesson
Posted 02 June 2003 - 12:11
Posted 02 June 2003 - 16:25
Posted 02 June 2003 - 16:58
Posted 02 June 2003 - 17:18
Posted 02 June 2003 - 17:49
The first time I drove at Laguna Seca Steve Earle had laid on driver's school for newbies like me and part of it was a few laps in a large Ford window van with Bondurant at the wheel. That was an interesting ride.
I heard a story later that one of the gold chain crowd wanted to take his girlfriend along in the van which was supposed to be drivers only. He made enough of a stink that she was allowed to ride along. After a couple of laps she was enjoying the hell out of it but the but the boyfriend with the gold chains was so uncomfortable that he gave the driver(I don't know who it was this time) a $100 bill to stop and let him out.
He got out, puked on his shoes, the door slammed behind him and his girlfriend went off for a few more laps with the rest of the guys.
I also got the low bucks version of this one time at a VARA event. This was in a Dodge Tradesman van- the one with the extended tail- no seats, just some empty beer cans rolling around on the floor and 5 or 6 guys standing hunched over in the back while John Morton hustled the thing around at indecent speed. That was a ride!!
Posted 02 June 2003 - 18:42
Posted 22 March 2004 - 01:32
You may be interested to know that we have acquired the rights to the name Scarab and plan on bringing the marque back with a 50th Anniversary Scarab II . Since we are very early in the process, were trying to keep this a secret, but AutoWeek just gave a mention and the cat's out of the bag.
We plan on being faithful, in spirit, to the original. The design philosophy for the new, limited edition Scarab II is fairly simple: the latest technologies will be there, but they'll be in the background. The outside will have the look, sound and fury reminiscent of the original Scarab Mk II. This aluminum bodied, front engine roadster will be simple, light, fast and easy to drive. Power will be a modern, 50-state emission legal Chevrolet V8 -- probably the LS6 Corvette unit as a base. The car will have a targeted 0-60 MPH time of less than 4 seconds. There are exciting possibilities with the transmission / transaxle too, but we cannot disclose this -- yet. When we're done, you can have a high-performance open sports car that you can drive on the street or the track (with the proper FIA-approved equipment of course). More importantly, it'll break through the clutter with a look that reminds us of that golden, romantic racing era of the '50s and early '60s.
Of course, the Scarab's progenitor, Lance Reventlow is long gone. But in the mix is Mike Mullin, whose father, an attorney, handled all of Lance Reventlow's Scarab-related business; Chuck Pelly, the man who designed the original Scarab Mk II; and even Richard Reventlow -- Lance's younger brother. Other interesting names are coming too.
In the weeks ahead we plan on offering some cool old racing photos, paintings, scale cars and clothing to help offset some of our development costs.
Almost forgot -- our rather modest website is www.ScarabAuto.com.
This could be fun. Please stay tuned.
Posted 22 March 2004 - 04:27
Sounds wonderful, ambitious, but wonderful!
Have you heard of the movie "The Sound of Speed" (The loud scrambling noise is other TNFers leaving I have talked abut this movie many times recently trying to track it down)
If not, check it out!
It features Reventlow and Daigh driving the car at Riverside fitted with the Chevy V8-the movies is fabulous and was mentioned for an academy award.
The problem is: the movie has been out of circulation for many years and was lost until a friend of a friend found an original print in a movie warehouse during a cleanup. I have talked with Don Orosco, whom you must surely know, and he doesn't know who owns the copyright anymore. However, John Streets of Merlin Engineering, Redwood City, California knows where the original print is; it would make a wonderful promo movie for you...
(Did I word that right guys?)
Regards, David B
Posted 22 March 2004 - 06:27
1890 Embarcadero Rd Palo Alto,Ca.....
john's a great fellow ,easily approachable,and when visiting his works one can often see the most wonderful of things....
Posted 22 March 2004 - 07:35
Posted 22 March 2004 - 16:49
Ambitious? Sure, but a job worth doing, is worth doing right ... right? This project is not comparable to say, the virtually unobtainable $1MM Bugatti. We're talking about a refreshingly simple all-American roadster here with a realistic price-point. We don't want to compete with the rarefied atmosphere of the latest and greatest super cars. Let them fight over the scraps. Been there, done that. We want to celebrate the lines of an earlier time -- you know -- "when the tires were skinny and the drivers were fat."
Don't worry though. This car will have all the right go-fast goodies. It's just that they will be in the background. With Chuck Pelly's design expertise in the mix (just sold his design company to BMW), rest assured this will not be an amateur operation.
I run a consulting business (autoworldmarketing.com) -- putting on my marketing hat here for a second, the real challenge with Scarab is correctly identifying the value proposition and successfully meeting the consumer's general set of expectations.
By the way, initial plans were for 500 units, max. Volume depends on how we approach the specialty vehicle laws (recently changed). Our experience a few years ago with Ultima was an example. We were the ones who got the car California legal and approved by CARB. Now the laws have changed on that, making it easier, but we are still committed to making the Scarab run with the most recent emissions laws in-check. We have yet to decide if we want to sell completed "rollers" with the drive train separately on a pallet, or complete turnkey vehicles. We're still in the design stages.
If the roadster goes well, we will be thinking about a mid-engined Scarab as well.
And yes, Chuck Daigh knows about this project. Thanks again for the support.
Posted 22 March 2004 - 17:00
I wish your company all the luck. IMHO the Scarab is the most beautiful front-engined sports-racer ever, and with people like Chuck Pelly involved I'm sure yours will do it homage.
I don't know if you've been in touch with another very involved player, Phil Remington, but he is a friend of mine and I'd be happy to assist in that regard if you like. Phil is still active in the world of fabrication, has a memory like the proverbial steel trap, and would probably be happy to advise you on the details of the original Scarabs if need be. Please e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org if you need help getting in touch with him.
Posted 22 March 2004 - 20:23
Racers Edge mentions a racing series in Yurrup that will use replica front engined cars. Sounds a little elitist though with only 2 entries per country. Perhaps the Scarab II could do the same thing "Over here" only with the likes of yr fthfl svnt driving the Canadian demo car?
Regards, David B
Posted 23 March 2004 - 01:44
Yes, the Scarab would be a good entry in such an event, when the time is right of course.
And no question, Factory Five builds some pretty good stuff.
Posted 23 March 2004 - 23:13
If I may make a suggestion (sorry) concentrate on design and function rather than styling. Don't change the original too much! Cars like the recent Jensen sports car did not desrve to succeed and predictably failed because they concentrated on styling and turned out ugly. Good design is beautiful.
Think of the TVR Griff. A fabulous car, a really good design. But some of the recent TVRs have lost the plot.
Posted 24 March 2004 - 01:58
Posted 24 November 2004 - 00:55
Where are the others?
In particular, the, once raced, mid-engined intercontintal car?
Any, and all, pics would be most welcome.
Posted 24 November 2004 - 01:05
001 (Reventlow's car) is with Rob Walton
002 (Daigh's car) is with Augie Pabst
003 (Kessler's car) is in the Collier Museum
The Mid-Engined car is with Augie Pabst
(001) is with Don Orosco with an Offenhauser engine
(002) was destroyed by Daigh at Silverstone and scrapped. A car supposedly built from some of the parts was owned by the late Ali Lugo; it was sold after his death, but I'm not sure where it went.
(003) which was not originally fitted with an engine is now in the Donington Museum.
The F366 car has a very odd and spotty record. What was claimed to be the car was discovered "disguised as a Brabham" and restored. It was also owned by the late Ali Lugo; again I'm not sure where it went after his death.
I'd be curious where Lugo's cars went.
None of the cars originally had a serial number; I've used what seems to be the most logical and accepted way of designating them.
Posted 24 November 2004 - 01:12
Do you have any info as to the whereabouts of the Desmo engines?
Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:09
Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:48
All the sports cars are either restored (001, 003) or maintained in essentially original condition (the two cars with Pabst). The first F1 (Orosco) is restored, and the Donington car apparently is at least in decent condition. I'm under the impression that the ex-Lugo cars were finished prior to his death.
(Edited to give Bruce Kessler proper credit.)
Posted 24 November 2004 - 03:13
Motor Sport (I think) had a subsiquent article on the car and Chuck Daigh, captioned "We could have run with them !"
Back in the day, the engine never gave more than 230hp on the dyno (documented and verified by several sources). Appearantly during the restoration, it was discovered that the cam shafts were installed incorrectly. This mistake was due to a some sort of computation error that altered the relationship of the cam to the timing of the engine. The mistake was made early in the design of the engine and never caught so that when the engine was built and run, it never made the expected power. Once the mistake was corrected, the engine proved capable of producing 250+hp on the dyno. The 2.5L Climax gave 240hp at best.
It is an interesting what if.
Posted 24 November 2004 - 06:06
Chassis No. 001
Text from the program(me) at Monterey Historics, 2003.
What kind of engine would it be, at 3000cc?
Posted 24 November 2004 - 07:43
Posted 24 November 2004 - 09:10
Originally posted by Frank S
.....What kind of engine would it be, at 3000cc?
That's the Offy...
Initial tests of the car were done with that size engine back in 1959/60.
Posted 24 November 2004 - 14:56
Fortunately for historians the three cars maintained these characteristics during their entire careers, making the tracking of race histories much easier.
Posted 24 November 2004 - 15:14
Posted 24 November 2004 - 20:24
Here's a picture of the car currently owned by Augie Pabst:
No hood scoop. When I took that pic, the Orosco car was in attendance as well. My Dad loves the Meister Brauser car, and we always make a point of finding it so I can take yet another picture of it. Naturally, we fount the Orosco car first. Cue head scratching and "What happened to the Meister Brauser guy?" comments. Somewhere I have a picture of the mid engined car, which was signwritten as the "Meister Brauser II"!
Posted 24 November 2004 - 21:43
"Von Dutch" (his real name was Kenny Howard) not only did the pin striping on the original Scarabs, but was responsible for the unique shade of blue, and overall design of the scalloped paint scheme. (Von Dutch is worth a whole thread of his own. It's both sad and amusing today that the "Von Dutch" clothing fad is stoked by people who have no idea who this unique man was, or what he did.) There's a brief but very good bio of Von Dutch at http://www.letterhea...burns/vondutch/
Posted 25 November 2004 - 00:56
Posted 25 November 2004 - 17:28
There were also plastic 1/24 kits of the Rear-Engined sports car, also done as a slot car body. These and other more rare plastic models turn up on eBay with some frequency.
Posted 26 November 2004 - 15:43
Posted 26 November 2004 - 18:29
FAO SCHWARZ proudly joins emap usa in offering this exclusive MOTOR TREND Magazine Vintage Racing series. MOTOR TREND, the prestigious publication which bestows the distinguished "Car of the Year" award, is recognized as The World's # 1 Automotive Authority. Ober hte Decades, the magazine has chronicled the steady growth of auto racing in America and around the world. This MOTOR TREND Vintage Racing Series includes three highly detailed 1:43 scale race cars - each having written its own chapter in racing history books.
SCARAB: The homegrown Scarab established its historical significance by soundly beating Europe's fastest sports cars at the 1958 Grand Prix at Riverside. In doing so, this small-block All-American racer blazed the way for the Cobras and Chaparrals which followed. By the time the Scarab retired it had changed the face of racing and solidly established American racers as a world-class force.
FERRARI 365 GTS/4 "Daytona": In 1968, Ferrari gambled with its new model, the "Daytona".With the competition turning to mid-engine layout. In keeping the cart behind the house(power), Ferrari had produced a stunning coupe with an elongated hood, short rear deck and a comfortable, luxurious cabin. It was an instant hit and the 365 GTS/4 became one of Ferrari's most celebrated cars.
PORSCHE 356: In 1948, Ferdinand Porsche unveiled his first sports car. Two years later, he produced the fist vehicle to bear his name, the Porsche 356. It was a precision-crafted sports car with exceptional performance that remained in production until 1966, and successfully laid the groundwork from with the Porsche legend has grown. The 356's classic design is so irresistible that the basic lines are still being used on today's Porsche cars, more then 50 years later.
Posted 27 November 2004 - 09:17
Originally posted by Roger Clark
This statement, about only just making the 1954 grid also appears in Mike Lawrence's Grand Prix Cars 1945-65. It is worth further examination.
First, if we are considering the competitiveness of the car, it's surely Moss' time, not Reventlow or Daigh's we should consider. 1 min 45s would have qualified for the back row in 1958, for the second row in 1957. Denis Jenkinson reckoned that a set of Dunlops would have given Moss 1min 43, if the car had fitted him properly he would have done 1min 42, if he had been trying he could have done 1m 41, and if starting money had been involved he could have done 1m 40. this would be good enough for the front row in 1958.
And if the valve timing problem had been known about and sorted?
Posted 27 November 2004 - 09:53
The Climaxes might well have not had more than 240hp... but in 1958 there were Vanwalls and Ferraris out there with decidedly more than that.
Posted 27 November 2004 - 14:57
Posted 27 November 2004 - 21:34
Posted 09 September 2006 - 14:23
Originally posted by Roger Clark
First, if we are considering the competitiveness of the car, it's surely Moss' time, not Reventlow or Daigh's we should consider. .
For those with a serious Scarab interest, I noticed at a recent Prescott meeting that Ted Walker, ferretfotographics , try BB on TNF or website, has a good collection of b/w photos taken at Monaco showing Moss, Reventlow, Daigh et al, just as SCM returns to the pits in the Scarab, gets out, and gives his views. Well worth having, IMHO, for any serious Scarab fan; from what I have seen in the Scarab books and articles these are essentially unseen period shots.
Posted 11 September 2006 - 21:11
We were very fortunate in being able to see this car at a very early Goodwood Festival, 94?, must check photofiles.
Originally posted by WDH74
Don't know when I took this, and I haven't seen this car since. But I do recognize the white Jag and the Aston off to the right, as I've seen them since.
Again, where else could I see this if not at Goodwood?