73 replies to this topic

[Alexandre]

Hi all

Does anyone have pictures about the Hill GH2? I'm trying to build one in 1/24 and i need chassis/cockpit pictures.Any help will be welcome.

All the best for all.

Alexandre

[ensign14]

Get this month's MotorSport, there's a great article on it by Ian Flux. Order a back issue here .

[Marc]

Hello,

I am looking for good pics of Tony Brise and the new Embassy Hill Lola, in tests at the end of 1975.

Thank you very much ;)

[philippe charuest]

the new car wasnt a lola . in some way it was the first real Hill. i dont know if they ever test it

[ensign14]

There is a pic in David Hodges' A-Z of Racing Cars of Brise at the wheel. They definitely tested it - it was returning from a test that the team was wiped out...

[Marc]

I found only this pic of Brise in action with the (lola?) Hill GH2; Silverstone probably

[Vitesse2]

Silverstone definitely, Marc. That's the picture ensign14 mentioned - taken at Woodcote? - described as "in its first check runs".

I've never seen any from the final test session at Paul Ricard.

[Jorge Felix]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I've never seen any from the final test session at Paul Ricard.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Silverstone definitely, Marc. That's the picture ensign14 mentioned - taken at Woodcote?

Becketts, I think.

I've never seen any from the final test session at Paul Ricard.

I don't think I have either...

Bravo, Jorge. Do you know who took that Ricard pic?

[Pedro 917]

Damon Hill drove the car on Sunday at this year's Goodwood Festival of Speed :

[Vitesse2]

Thank you Jorge A very poignant picture.

Pedro 917: thanks for those too. I was only at Goodwood on Friday, but was able to renew my acquaintance with the GH2 after nearly 30 years. The last time I saw it, it was on a plinth in the entrance hall of the National Motor Museum - that was probably in early 1977. Brought a lump to the throat then and still does. I'm still amazed how small it was, even by the standards of F1 cars of its day.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

If anyone has the issue, dig out the Dutch GP coverage in Road & Track magazine from '75. Alas, my copy has long since been binned. In one photo, the caption identifies a couple of cars/drivers in the foreground but completely ignores in the far background what appears to be TB spinning in front of a group of cars. IIRC, the spin was mentioned in the article. It was never picked up in the caption.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin
If anyone has the issue, dig out the Dutch GP coverage in Road & Track magazine from '75. Alas, my copy has long since been binned. In one photo, the caption identifies a couple of cars/drivers in the foreground but completely ignores in the far background what appears to be TB spinning in front of a group of cars. IIRC, the spin was mentioned in the article. It was never picked up in the caption.

I have it in front of me, but no photo with Brise in background nor mention of Tony spinning in Rob Walker's article. I wonder which race you are remembering.

It was a nice excuse to pull the volume down though and there is a poignant sense of what might have been in Rob's summation of practice "Tony Brise put on the spectacular performance we are beginning to expect from him". A later reference to "Tom Brise in his Embassy Hill" should, I think, be attributed to an American type-setter after a decent liquid lunch sometime in the summer of 1975.

[Rob Ryder]

[Vitesse2]

That first one's familiar, Rob. Taken at the launch at Silverstone, presumably on the same day as the action shot. We included it in my 8W article on Graham.

I had one of those Embassy-Hill jackets. I wore it till it fell apart - I still have the badge somewhere.

[Marc]

Thank you everybody !
Special thank to Jorge, Pedro 917, Rob.

I do not see the mirrors on the car driven by Brise ... Curious

[Jorge Felix]

Originally posted by Marc

I do not see the mirrors on the car driven by Brise ... Curious

[Rob Ryder]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
That first one's familiar, Rob. Taken at the launch at Silverstone, presumably on the same day as the action shot.

The first photo is from the mysterious 'Mother Superior' website of a few years ago.. great photos on the site but unable to trace the source.

I'm not sure if the track shot was the same day or not.. I think the track picture appeared in 'A-Z of Formula Cars', but a smaller pic?
Rob

[Huw Jadvantich]

You were right about the photos bringing a lump to the throat........amazing isn't it, nearly thirty years ago and one still gets emotional about it. The potential was all there, what a terrible waste.....

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Apologies to Ruairidh. Let's see now. Hmmm...

I just trotted out to the garage and rescued my '75 AutoCourse edition to see if the pic was there and yes, it is. So much for my memory cells. DOH!!!

It's Belgium, not Holland. And the caption does indeed mention Tony's loop. Forgive the gaffes.

Still, can't help but think that I saw another pic somewhere else without the caption note.

Sigh... :

[Jorge Felix]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin
Apologies to Ruairidh. Let's see now. Hmmm...

I just trotted out to the garage and rescued my '75 AutoCourse edition to see if the pic was there and yes, it is. So much for my memory cells. DOH!!!

It's Belgium, not Holland. And the caption does indeed mention Tony's loop. Forgive the gaffes.

Still, can't help but think that I saw another pic somewhere else without the caption note.

Sigh... :

Source unknown

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin
Apologies to Ruairidh. Let's see now. Hmmm...

I :

No apologies needed, I spent an enjoyable hour back in the seventies through R&T last night

[SEdward]

Slightly OT, but the 1975 Belgian GP was the first race I ever attended outside the UK. The Belgian commentator nicely gallicised Tony's name by referring to him as "Tony Breeze" all weekend.

His performance in practice certainly made an impact on all present. A terrible loss.

Was that photo taken on the first lap? I certainly remember Lauda's win, but I don't recall Brambilla leading the race. Or maybe there was someone else out front.

I seem to remember reading at the time that the performance of the Hill GH2 in testing was pretty abysmal. Can anyone confirm?

Edward

[Pedro 917]

At the end of the first lap, the whole pack was heading for the (now Jacky Ickx) chicane and Brambilla in the orange March outbraked Lauda. We all thought he wasn't going to make it but he did and he took the lead. It was one of those big moments that I will always cherrish.

[SEdward]

Luc,

I thought that the Jacky Ickx Bocht was the chicane before the pit straight.

Edward

[Pedro 917]

Yes Edward, that's it. It's the last corner (corners) before the pit straight, before they start a new lap.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by SEdward
I seem to remember reading at the time that the performance of the Hill GH2 in testing was pretty abysmal. Can anyone confirm?

Edward

Originally posted by Doug Nye on November 28th 2002
All racers want their latest to be right straight out of the box. A 10-item major job list would be pretty darned good - 25 items a severe disappointment - 50-75 (which I believe was the new Hill car's at minimum) pretty much a racing disaster...

DCN

It's still a pretty car though.

[Dave Ware]

A few nights ago I dreamed that it was 1974 and Graham Hill had asked me to drive his Lola, in his place, at a Grand Prix (don't remember which one - the dream wasn't that lucent.) Perhaps it was a premonition of this thread? (Yes, I know this is about 1975, but that's pretty close!)

Don't remember the race results but I had a great time!

Dave

[John-w]

Hello,

I am searching photos from the original Hill GH2 which was tested by Tony Brise.
I know the car is restored and runs on some historic races now, but I need photos from
the original rims for my model.

Thanks
John-w

[alansart]

Originally posted by John-w
Hello,

I am searching photos from the original Hill GH2 which was tested by Tony Brise.
I know the car is restored and runs on some historic races now, but I need photos from
the original rims for my model.

Thanks
John-w

Are these any help? The Embassy Hill Lolas at Silverstone, Int Trophy, 1974 (posted earlier in the Photos of Paddock thread).

[John-w]

Hello,

I need photos from this car



thanks

John-w

[MCS]

Originally posted by John-w
Hello,

I need photos from this car



thanks

John-w

John

There was a Track Test in Motor Sport some years back -two/three maybe?

Ian Flux drove and there were some reasonable colour pictures.

[Bonde]

Alexandre,

These should help: http://www.gurneyflap.com/formule170's.html about 1/3 of the way down the page.

You might also want to try doing a search for 'Hill GH2' on Google pictures and on Flickr.

[SpecialKS]

Hyperlink doesn't work. Enter it manually.

http://www.gurneyfla...rmule170's.html

very interesting site.

[John-w]

Hello,

here is a new release from Iritani, the Hill GH2 in scale 1/20th.




John-w

http://www.iritanikits.com

[Barry Boor]

I've always been fascinated by the design of this car.

I wonder if there was actually anything INSIDE those very flat portions alongside the cockpit? They look so shallow it's hard to imagine there being room for any components etc.

My memory does not allow me to know if there was a minimum width for the chassis in those days. Maybe that's the only reason for that shape. Otherwise, they might as well have left them off!

[fines]

Perhaps it was originally conceived for a 'pan cake' engine?;)

[f1steveuk]

What? You mean like an Alfa flat 12? Surely not?;)


http://www.speedyracing.ch/hill21.htm

nearly a cockpit shot in there!

[f1steveuk]

or this

http://www.research-...ng.de/gh2-a.htm

[David Lawson]

Alexandre

I'm not sure these two photographs I took of the car at Donington in 2007 show any more detail than the pictures you already have but you're welcome to them.





David

[f1steveuk]

It's a shame that this car never ran in anger. It just looks like it would have been good, although I am aware the Ricard test showed some problems, another great "what if".

[Pedro 917]

Damon Hill drove the car at the Goodwood Festival Of Speed in 2005 :




Pictures Luc Ghys

[Bonde]

Barry,

Those shallow "pyramid" sides of the chassis in fact contained the fuel bags and the deformable structures to protect the tanks. In order to optimize the packaging of the not insignificant fuel tankage within the very compact cross section of the chassis, Andy Smallman had 'pinched' the cockpit/footwell around the driver's knees, such that the inside walls of the tub were closest together at the location were the driver needed less room than at his feet dancing on the three pedals then in use. The layout of the car thus distributed the fuel for some considerable length of the tub, although a significant proportion of the fuel was behind the driver's back. I wonder if there was a bias system of some sort in order to maintain centre of gravity location as the fuel load lightened?

IIRC, there was no minimum chassis width in the rules then, but the deformable stuctures outboard of the fuel tanks had to have a thickness of at least 10 cm over 30 cm of length. The maximum chassis width was 140 cm IIRC.

GH2 was a nice, tidy car, but the front suspension was somewhat obtrusive, which wasn't uncommon then, and the radiator installation is neat. I've often wondered if the chassis was rigid enough. It would've looked even tidier in the post April 1 guise without the, IMO, rather too tall airbox (then again, Tony Brise was an untypically tall driver!) and the more forward rear wing it would have gotten.

Brise's height apart, the driver does sit very upright, doesn't he? I suppose this was to keep the wheelbase short - Brise could handle a low mass moment of inertia car...

Wasn't the Embassy livery simple and neat compared with the present day clown-pant camouflage schemes? And - oh yes - this car also looked different from its competitors as was the norm then, even if most teams used the Cossie...

I remember actually crying myself to sleep when I heard about Graham's death - I'd just been so relieved that my boyhood hero had survived his racing career and I was looking forward to rooting for his team. What a sad, devastating loss it was on that foggy November evening...I'm sure that many who felt as I did then couldn't resist becoming a fan of Damon many years later...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Bonde


I remember actually crying myself to sleep when I heard about Graham's death - I'd just been so relieved that my boyhood hero had survived his racing career and I was looking forward to rooting for his team. What a sad, devastating loss it was on that foggy November evening...I'm sure that many who felt as I did then couldn't resist becoming a fan of Damon many years later...

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. But ultimately ....

(I actually did buy an Embassy Hill t-shirt - I've still got it, but would have to lose a pound or two to wear it again. I had the rally jacket too - all that remains of that is the badge!)

[Gary C]

'...I'm sure that many who felt as I did then couldn't resist becoming a fan of Damon many years later...'
Absolutely.

[john t]

I imagine the car was designed with the Spanish GP (1976) rules onwards in mind. No airbox above the roll hoop, rear wing brought forward. On implementation some cars suddenly found themselves struggling for grip (shadow DN5), whilst others became more competetive (Lotus 77, March 761). Needless to say we will never know what this wonderfully pretty car would have achieved nor it's intelligent and astoundingly quick driver.
And adding to your observations Bonde, I was a huge fan of Damon too but largely after meeting him at brands in '85. As a photographer i spent 5 minutes setting up a photo of him in his FF Ricoh sponsored car. Damon sat patiently in his cockpit cracking jokes at his and my expence knowing that the shot was for no commercial gain. A nice guy with his feet in the right place. Damon Hill was an underated driver who could turn it on whenever he had too (and did,frequently).
Great photos by the way.

[fines]

Absolutely!

You didn't have to have been an NGH fan to root for Damon, although it surely helped.

[john t]

Just looking for a Tony Brise thread; couldn't find one. Anyone know?

[Andre Acker]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. But ultimately ....

(I actually did buy an Embassy Hill t-shirt - I've still got it, but would have to lose a pound or two to wear it again. I had the rally jacket too - all that remains of that is the badge!)

Hi Vitesse !

Can you show us a photo of that Embassy-Hill t-shirt (both sides) ?

VBR.
André Acker.

[David Beard]

“What looks right, is right”

Frank Costin argued with this, but I don’t usually. But in the case of the GH2, I think there is a problem with the well worn adage…

The car looks great, but…

A low flat monocoque might be fine for the C of G, but can’t be very good at the torsional stiffness thing. Sometimes F1 designers have been slaves to fashion…the Tyrrell 008 was just as wrong?

And if you want to go for a triangular profile, surely it makes more sense to match the section of the DFV? Gordon Murray had the right idea, as did Surtees with the TS20.

Then, to go and stick a non-stressed, tall, conning tower cockpit on top of an ultra low cockpit always seemed bonkers to me. It just seems a no brainer to give it some sort of structural significance, and a tad of extra protection for the driver. Lots of designs of the period seemed to me the lose the plot in this area…even Lotus when their tub was apparently not up to the stiffness requirements of the ground effects that they themselves had introduced.

But at least cars of the period looked different from each other.