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Tragic F1 debuts


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#1 Simpson RX1

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:16

I was just having an idle squint at F1rejects.com and reading about the exploits of Jean-Louis Schlesser.......

It mentions the fact that his uncle Jo was killed in his F1 debut, so my question is this.......was anyone else unlucky enough to befall the same fate?

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:35

Er. it was Schlesser's first WDC race: he had driven several non-championship F1 races during the 1500cc Formula.

Mario Alborghetti's is a similarly tragic story. He was a no more than competent amateur, recruited to drive the hopeless Arzani-Volpini at Pau in 1955. Neither car nor driver survived the experience: a picture in Pierre Darmendrail's book on Pau shows the car spearing straight through a straw bale to hit the fence behind it. Alborghetti's helmet is seen flying through the air, his seat has come loose from its mounts and is pressing him against the steering column ..... :(

#3 Simpson RX1

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:42

I consider my self one of the 'old gits' on this site, but even I don't remember him................that's why I asked the question, so thanks for that Vitesse.

BTW, what's the Bob Marley connection?

#4 Twin Window

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:44

Arguably the same fate befell both Roger Williamson and Riccardo Paletti.

Roger was an innocent victim of the famous end-of-lap-one-start-of-lap-two shunt in the 1973 British GP, which was his debut. The race was stopped and restarted, but without the March driver, and I think that it was a complete restart. His debut proper, therefore, was the next round at Zandvoort...

Riccardo had started the 1982 San Marino race (which was a FISA-only race due to the boycotts by the FOCA teams during their incredibly dull power struggle). IIRC he started that race from the pitlane too. Therefore, if you accept that the San Marino race wasn't a 'proper' GP (even though it was a points-scorer, due to it's FISA sanctioning) then his first grid start for a 'full' GP was in Canada, which resulted in the ensuing tragedy just a few metres later...

#5 Simpson RX1

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:50

Thanks for that too Stuart.............I didn't see the Roger Williamson incident (but I do remember folk talking about motorsport losing one of it's greatest exponants) but I vivdly remember watching the Palletti crash...............those images remain with me to this day...........so sad

#6 Simpson RX1

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:53

Oh, and thanks for changing the thread title................I did think of that, but I was trying to be less melodramatic...........

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 23:53

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
BTW, what's the Bob Marley connection?

Just struck me as a very appropriate quote. How can you know where you are if you have no idea where you've been? That's my take on motor racing history ....

#8 Twin Window

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 00:03

Originally posted by Simpson RX1

but I vivdly remember watching the Palletti crash...............those images remain with me to this day...........so sad

As would the Williamson ones. That was surely the darkest day in the history of F1...

If you use the search facility, you'll find out a lot more about it. By reading this thread, and this one and and this too you'll start to understand...

#9 Simpson RX1

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 00:04

Sorry Vitesse, I just wanted to know the connection...............in real life I'm a DJ and walking music encyclopeadia, as well as an ex racer and motorsport buff :D

#10 Simpson RX1

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 00:09

I'm guessing that those links will lead me to some pictures that should be used as examples of how our sport demonstrated just how bad it can be........I might not remember it, but I've researched enough to know what happened.......

Thank's Stuart, but i know it was one of our darkest days already

#11 Simpson RX1

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 00:20

No offence intended..........

#12 rosemeyer

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 00:33

Simmpson RX1

I consider my self one of the 'old gits' on this site, but even I don't remember him.....

To some of us your still a puppy born in 1947 I have followed F1 since 1959

What scared me was Monza 1961 the Clarck Von Trips crash it easily could could gone the other way.sad for Von Trips but we could have been deprived of seeing Jimmy's career.

#13 Twin Window

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 06:11

Originally posted by Simpson RX1

I'm guessing that those links will lead me to some pictures...

There's only one distant (and non-graphic) image of the accident on the third link, although there'll be others if you follow further links.

What you will discover, however, is the best portrait shot of Roger I've ever seen - taken by David Beard - and an accurate barometer of just how angry those events still make people over thirty years on...

#14 Lec CRP1

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 07:41

Originally posted by Twin Window
There's only one distant (and non-graphic) image of the accident on the third link, although there'll be others if you follow further links.

What you will discover, however, is the best portrait shot of Roger I've ever seen - taken by David Beard - and an accurate barometer of just how angry those events still make people over thirty years on...


I can vouch for this. I'm very angry about what happened that day, and it was 2-and-a-half years before I was born. I've read about many fatal racing accidents and none has affected me more than Williamson's. I'm afraid it's one of those things that more you find out about it, the worse it gets. I put together a pictorial record of the events from film and TV footage a while back. There's more about it here, but if you're in any way sensitive, I wouldn't advise going there.

Sadly, the Purley-Williamson Memorial Foundation seems to be defunct now, too.

#15 Lec CRP1

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 07:57

Originally posted by Vitesse2
[B]Er. it was Schlesser's first WDC race: he had driven several non-championship F1 races during the 1500cc Formula.

And also a couple of German GPs in the F2 class which was used to pad out the grid in the late 60s. I think Francois Cevert and Jacky Ickx made their 'debuts' that way too.

#16 Svend

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 01:01

Originally posted by Lec CRP1

Sadly, the Purley-Williamson Memorial Foundation seems to be defunct now, too.


No no, we're not.

It's just that the team has been extremely busy and we've had a total lack of response from the Zandvoort authorities, or the current owner of the strip of land where the track used to be. I can tell you it's pretty frustrating. We can't sensibly try to raise funds or raise support without a guarantee that there is a location where we can erect a memorial. I can't justify asking for help when there's no proper tangible destination for the support we receive.

Patience, patience.

#17 LOTI

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 11:27

It's the Twilight Zone again......
I was lurking, as you do, I put it down to short dark days and long dreary nights although it could just be that I am a sad old anorak.
This thread got read and left me wondering why people were angry, unless whoever is using the wrong word, sad, horrified, frustrated yes but why angry......... anyway.
Skip to yesterday and I'm out walking the dog in the local park, on the strange nodding acquaintance you get with other dog owners. A lady with two spaniels came walking the other way. Oh, she said, are you the person who was talking about motor racing with Peter? [scotty owner]. I'm Jane Purley.
Coincidence or the twilight zone!!!!
ps. she said that James Hunt's second wife lives near as does Pam Bell, spooky.

pps Even spookier. she said that the first report of the accident in the pits was that David had crashed and Roger had tried to save him so imagine what she felt when David walked in.
Thats all.
Loti

#18 Breadmaster

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 13:51

I really can't put into words how i feel about this....i feel that same way Lec CRP1 feels ....it was a year before i was born but :mad: it's so frustrating. :cry:

This is one thing that modern sanitised F1 doesn't have....

#19 Nikos Spagnol

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 11:43

Originally posted by Twin Window


Riccardo had started the 1982 San Marino race (which was a FISA-only race due to the boycotts by the FOCA teams during their incredibly dull power struggle). IIRC he started that race from the pitlane too. Therefore, if you accept that the San Marino race wasn't a 'proper' GP (even though it was a points-scorer, due to it's FISA sanctioning) then his first grid start for a 'full' GP was in Canada, which resulted in the ensuing tragedy just a few metres later...


Poor Ricardo was on the starting grid in Detroit GP, I guess, but his Osella failed to start the race (gearbox problem, IIRC).

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#20 ensign14

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 12:28

Originally posted by Twin Window

Riccardo had started the 1982 San Marino race (which was a FISA-only race due to the boycotts by the FOCA teams during their incredibly dull power struggle). IIRC he started that race from the pitlane too. Therefore, if you accept that the San Marino race wasn't a 'proper' GP (even though it was a points-scorer, due to it's FISA sanctioning) then his first grid start for a 'full' GP was in Canada, which resulted in the ensuing tragedy just a few metres later...

I remember reading an interview in GPI with Derek Ongaro, who started the race. He said that it was apparent on watching a video of the crash that Paletti wasn't looking at the track, he was looking down, and so did not see that Pironi had stalled ahead of him.

#21 FerrariV12

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 15:27

Originally posted by ensign14
I remember reading an interview in GPI with Derek Ongaro, who started the race. He said that it was apparent on watching a video of the crash that Paletti wasn't looking at the track, he was looking down, and so did not see that Pironi had stalled ahead of him.


I haven't heard that one before!

I was always under the impression that he was unsighted by a car in front of him (Jarier?) and basically got really, really unlucky :(

#22 Muzza

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 16:25

Originally posted by FerrariV12


I haven't heard that one before!

I was always under the impression that he was unsighted by a car in front of him (Jarier?) and basically got really, really unlucky :(


Please bear in mind that racing cars cover large amounts of space in a short time, so many things can happen within a diminutive time window. Many times we poor mortals misjudge the dimension and the complexity of the environment of a race, when everything "seems to be happening at the same time".

With the risk of saying the obvious, things can go horribly wrong in a fraction of a second. Possibly the view of Jarier's Osella blindsighted most of Paletti's run down the pit straight after the start, and maybe, just maybe, Paletti looked down at the dashboard when his team mate moved aside to clear Pironi's car... (this is just a cogitation of mine)

This story reminds me of the accident Émerson Fittipaldi suffered during practice for the 1970 Italian GP, a day before Rindt died. Fittipaldi was following Ignazio Giunti going down the straight between Ascari and Parabolica, and Chris Amon was just behind them. Fittipaldi was still getting used to the amount of aerodynamic tow generated by Formula 1 cars, and was watching both Giunti and Amon. Then he took a just slightly took long stare at the rear view mirror - exactly when Giunti started to break for the turn: the Lotus hit the rear left wheel of Giunti's Ferrari, took off, cleared the run-off area and landed amongst the trees, picthed vertically... Fittipaldi was fortunately - and quite luckily - only slightly injured, but these events are just yet another example of how fast things happen in racing...

Cheers,


Muzza

#23 Mark Bennett

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 12:59

I recall that the rev-counter in Paetti's car was found to be at max revs.
Basically he would have been looking at it (to change up to the next gear) at that split-second rather than the track/pack.

#24 Twin Window

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 15:56

That's the way I heard it at the time, hence the significance of his lack of GP starts...

#25 Peter Morley

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 16:11

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Mario Alborghetti's is a similarly tragic story. He was a no more than competent amateur, recruited to drive the hopeless Arzani-Volpini at Pau in 1955. Neither car nor driver survived the experience: a picture in Pierre Darmendrail's book on Pau shows the car spearing straight through a straw bale to hit the fence behind it. Alborghetti's helmet is seen flying through the air, his seat has come loose from its mounts and is pressing him against the steering column ..... :(


I thought the car did survive.
I'm sure it was the Arzani Volpini (ex Maserati Milano) that Edmond Pery showed me many years ago (not sure if he had bought it from or tried to sell it through a UK auction house).
The story was that the driver had died in it, but I thought the car survived (and at least practised for another event), or were there 2 cars?

#26 Uwe

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 16:20

Imola 1994. Wasn't it poor Roland Ratzenbergers first F1 race as well? :cry:

#27 theunions

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 17:06

Originally posted by Uwe
Imola 1994. Wasn't it poor Roland Ratzenbergers first F1 race as well? :cry:


Second...DNQ'ed in Brazil but finished 11th in Aida.

#28 ensign14

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 17:41

There were a few more in NASCAR; OTOMH, Talmadge Prince died in his first start (one of the Daytona qualifying races - he was driving one of those fearsome Superbirds with the big wings), and Ricky Knotts was killed in a qually race circa 1980 when his bonnet flew up in front of him. Poor Rodney Orr never even made it that far, killed in practice for his first Daytona. Others who died with very little experience include Terry Schoonover and Adam Petty.

In pre-war GP racing it was commoner simply because there were fewer GPs, so less opportunity to get starts under the belt. Henri Cissac and Biagio Nazzaro (I believe his uncle won the relevant GP) both were killed at their first Grand Prix meetings.

#29 LB

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 17:59

Trying to steer away from death for a moment, how many have had as short a GP career as Marco Appicella who failed to reach the Retifilio in his only GP start?

#30 Mark Bennett

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 18:50

I think Perry McCarthy has the "shortest distance driven" (during an actual race meeting) record doesn't he?

#31 Nikos Spagnol

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 19:03

Surely many "rookie" drivers have faced death in Indy 500 in past years.

Young Jovy Marcelo, from Phillipinnes, died in pratice for his first Indy event in 1992. He was a rookie, wasn't him?

#32 theunions

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 19:06

Originally posted by ensign14
There were a few more in NASCAR; OTOMH, Talmadge Prince died in his first start (one of the Daytona qualifying races - he was driving one of those fearsome Superbirds with the big wings), and Ricky Knotts was killed in a qually race circa 1980 when his bonnet flew up in front of him. Poor Rodney Orr never even made it that far, killed in practice for his first Daytona. Others who died with very little experience include Terry Schoonover and Adam Petty.


Speaking of NASCAR...Ed Hinton's book "Daytona," which otherwise concentrates on the Grand National/Winston Cup series after the narrative reaches construction of Daytona International Speedway, details the compelling tale of Don Williams, a lawyer moonlighting as a local dirt short track driver who did not tell his parents he was heading off to Daytona (5x the size of any track he'd ever raced on) to run in the 300 mile Sportsman race in 1979.

With long-lasting consequences, as it took him a decade to finally die.

#33 theunions

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 19:10

Originally posted by Nikos Spagnol
Surely many "rookie" drivers have faced death in Indy 500 in past years.

Young Jovy Marcelo, from Phillipinnes, died in pratice for his first Indy event in 1992. He was a rookie, wasn't him?


Yes...guys with as much experience in other types of cars as Mike Spence.

Jovy was an Indy rookie but had run in all the '92 CART races prior to that in the same (type of) car.

#34 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 19:15

Originally posted by Peter Morley


I thought the car did survive.
I'm sure it was the Arzani Volpini (ex Maserati Milano) that Edmond Pery showed me many years ago (not sure if he had bought it from or tried to sell it through a UK auction house).
The story was that the driver had died in it, but I thought the car survived (and at least practised for another event), or were there 2 cars?


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the car was a write-off. It was rebuilt, having been quite extensively damaged in Alborghetti's crash, and was entered for the Italian GP the same year but failed to arrive.

#35 ensign14

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 19:19

Originally posted by LB
Trying to steer away from death for a moment, how many have had as short a GP career as Marco Appicella who failed to reach the Retifilio in his only GP start?

At least he got to practise! Poor Karl Oppitzhauser...

Paolo Barilla's was surely the shortest GP debut, he made about 0.2 yards.

The Don Williams story is similar to that of Bruce Jacobi, who was injured in a qually race in 1983 and remained in a coma until his death in 1987. Jacobi is perhaps more noteworthy for being almost as unsuccessful at Indy as Ralph Ligouri, with a 0 for 6 record in qualifying.

Bob Cortner was killed in his first go at Indy in 1959. There's a poignant picture of him in a Hungness book peeling the rookie stripes off his car.

#36 bigears

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 16:38

What about Helmeth Konnigg's (sp?) fatal accident at Watkins Glen in 1974. He died in a nasty way with the armco in similar circumstances with Francois Cevert's accident in the year before.

Was that in his F1 debut?

#37 jarama

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 22:37

Koinigg's debut was in the Canadian GP, a fortnight before the fateful US GP.


Carles.

#38 Nikos Spagnol

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 23:49

Originally posted by ensign14


Paolo Barilla's was surely the shortest GP debut, he made about 0.2 yards.


I've read somewhere that Mauricio Gulgemim debut in Brazil was rather short, his gearbox failing some 200 meters from the starting slot.

But 0.2 yards? How come?

#39 Muzza

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 00:57

I am surprised no one has mentioned yet the very unfortunate Argentinean Miguel Ángel Guerra, who surely has one of the shortest Formula 1 careers ever.

Having signed with Osella for the 1981 season, he failed to qualify in the first three races - Long Beach, Brazil and Argentina. He finally made the grid in Imola, where his race last for... a third of a lap. At Piratella a wayward Salazar punted Guerra towards the wall - with such an impact that the Osella driver broke an ankle and a wrist.

And that was it for Guerra in Formula 1 - a third of a lap, and never seen again...

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#40 LittleChris

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 01:45

Muzza,

He didn't make it even as far as Piratella. From what I remember watching on Tv he was punted off to the left even before Tamburello.

Chris - a sadly demoralised Hammer after tonights pathetic display !!

#41 Buford

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 04:30

I remember the story of Jackson Hagemeyer or something like that who got into a car at Langhorne as a relief driver and never made a lap before he was killed. His wife was in the stands and did not even know it was him in the car since he had not qualified for the race. I saw Bill Horstmeier get killed in a horrible crash at the Illinois State Fair USAC Champ Car race in 1964. It was his first USAC race.

#42 ensign14

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 08:35

Originally posted by Nikos Spagnol

But 0.2 yards? How come?

Gearbox broke on the grid.

If we're on short debuts, then both Gary Congdon (caught up in the big '64 pile-up) and Affonso Giaffone (snafu on parade lap) had Indy 500 careers that never made the green flag. Congdon I believe was killed before he had another chance.

Art Bisch and Jerry Unser both made about a lap in 1958 before the Elisian-O'Connor incident...Bisch dying before the '59 race and Unser being killed in practice for it.

#43 Muzza

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 16:28

Originally posted by ensign14
[...]

If we're on short debuts, then both Gary Congdon (caught up in the big '64 pile-up) and Affonso Giaffone (snafu on parade lap) had Indy 500 careers that never made the green flag. Congdon I believe was killed before he had another chance.

[...]


Hello, ensign14,


Nice to see someone remembering Gary Congdon in this forum.

Congdon actually had his debut in the 1966 Indy, not 1964. He qualified in an excellent 16th place with a Huffaker - Offenhauser. However, he got involved in that massive pile-up at the start of the race and flipped his car over the nose of Don Branson’s Gerhardt - Ford; both vehicles - and nine other - were eliminated in that infamous accident. His first Indy lasted only a couple of hundred meters.

The following year Congdon entered Indy in one of Mickey Thompson's cars, then equipped with an underpowered three-valve Chevrolet engine, but he suffered a practice accident and wrecked his first car (number 19). A switch to sister car 18 would not bring him better luck, as the Chevrolet-powered machines were simply not fast enough. After quite some struggle Congdon managed to get out his contract with Mickey Thompson and he stroke a quick deal to drive A. J. Foyt's reserve car, a Lotus - Ford, and when it seemed that he would grab the thirty-third and last slot on the departing grid, he was bumped out of the race due to an last-minute effort by Al Miller.

After Indy he did several midget races and also took part in the USAC races in Milwaukee (where, driving that inadequate Eisert, he did not qualify), Langhorn (the Ford engine blew in practice and, with no spares available, he withdrew), Mosport (where he installed a Chevy engine in the Eisert). The race at Mosport was postponed to July 1st after a rainy qualifying, but, ironically, that day the weather conditions were even worse. The race, a double header, went on anyway, and the Eisert was quite a handful to be kept on track. Finally Congdon spun out on lap six, damaged the car and did not take the start of the second race.

By the end of July Congdon had managed to install a Ford back in the Eisert, and scored a good tenth place at Langhorn, in a day where he drove as fast as the car could handle - if not faster. His next round was another Canadian double-header, at St.-Jovite. The twisting, hilly lay-out of the circuit did not suit the Eisert at all - just like Mosport didn't - and Congdon ran at the very back of the pack in the first race, spinning out of competition on lap 2 in the second.

That incident most likely propelled him to give up on that car. Congdon then switched to the front-engined "War Wagon" , an equally problematic (and obsolete) vehicle with quite poor weight distribution, and did not qualify for Springfield. He made an on-off start as a hired driver in Milwaukee, with no great results, and was back to the War Wagon again at Du Quoin - another DNQ. After a few changes in the car he entered the Hoosier 100 at the Indiana State Fairgrounds in Indianapolis, but once again he failed to qualify.

Congdon, a midget racing man by origin and by heart, and someone who had shone in the smaller cars, was becoming increasingly frustrated. Just about any other driver of the time, his racing schedule included different series in its program. So, whilst the USAC cars made a long trip East to race at Trenton in New Jersey, Congdon chose to take part in the very competitive Autumn 50 in Terre Haute, Indiana. Sadly, though, this was to be his last race...

But going back to his curriculum at Indy, he indeed raced for only half a straight, in 1966.

Regards,


Muzza

#44 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 17:07

Regarding Miguel Angel Guerra, I can confirm that he went off at Tamburello. His Formula 1 campaign lasted 400 meters...
But, as he himself said, "it was fate. I went off at Tamburello but to the left side and broke a leg. Ayrton Senna went off to the right and look what happened".

#45 KarlOakie Research

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 17:43

Others who died with very little experience include..... and Adam Petty.


I don't think that this is necessarily accurate in the overall sense, because Adam Petty had run quite a few ASA, ARCA, and Busch Series events before his unfortunate death.

#46 theunions

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 18:18

Originally posted by ensign14
If we're on short debuts, then both Gary Congdon (caught up in the big '64 pile-up) and Affonso Giaffone (snafu on parade lap) had Indy 500 careers that never made the green flag.


Don't forget Dale Whittington...IIRC, his only Indycar appearance.

#47 ensign14

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 21:43

Originally posted by KarlOakie Research


I don't think that this is necessarily accurate in the overall sense, because Adam Petty had run quite a few ASA, ARCA, and Busch Series events before his unfortunate death.

Yes - I was thinking at the very top level only.

But for experience overall the unfortunate Alborghetti may be the one with the least - according to the Autosport report on the Pau race Mario had had 4 minor Italian rallies under his belt before getting the Arzani-Volpini drive and the reporter (Nevil Lloyd, IIRC) made a pointed comment about how on earth permission was given for him to step up so quickly. This was the race where the DB F1 turbos made their debut/swansong as well and there seemed to be some last minute shifting by the organizers to let Storez drive and to allow a late-entering Pollet to have a go in his Gordini, so maybe they were desperate for entries.

(PS - thanks Muzza.)

#48 Jim Thurman

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 22:23

Originally posted by Buford
I remember the story of Jackson Hagemeyer or something like that who got into a car at Langhorne as a relief driver and never made a lap before he was killed. His wife was in the stands and did not even know it was him in the car since he had not qualified for the race. I saw Bill Horstmeier get killed in a horrible crash at the Illinois State Fair USAC Champ Car race in 1964. It was his first USAC race.


Hate to do this to ya Buford, but Hagemeyer was at a USAC Sprint race. I want to say Terre Haute. On his qualifying lap.

The Langhorne incident did happen, I just can't recall at the moment who it was. He was the third driver in the car, and crashed his first lap IIRC.

Dave Ridenour was a Sports Car ace, but his fatal accident at Calistoga was only his second or third Sprint Car drive.

It's not top level, but I ran across a newspaper account of a guy buying a Midget and crashing fatally in his first race at Carpinteria, California.

#49 Jim Thurman

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 22:36

On Gary Congdon and Art Bisch...

Originally posted by Muzza


Nice to see someone remembering Gary Congdon in this forum.


Yes, it is.

Congdon actually had some outstanding moments during the remainder of the 1966 season. He qualified 3rd and 4th at the two Langhorne races. The first he retired from (after running as high as 2nd IIRC), the latter he finished 4th, a career best he would duplicate in the Fuji race.

Unfortunately, his career seemed to take a downturn after leaving (or being dropped from) the Huffaker team. Wally Dallenbach drove for the team in '67.

Gary Congdon also made some USAC Stock Car starts.

Thanks for your great re-cap of Congdon's 1967 Muzza.

Art Bisch followed his Indy 500 disappointment by winning the Championship race at Milwaukee one week later.

#50 TheStranger

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 22:49

Originally posted by theunions


Don't forget Dale Whittington...IIRC, his only Indycar appearance.


Wasn't it posted in one of the Whittington threads a while back at TNF that Mario told the other two brothers that he had dirt on Dale should they let the youngest brother come back?

Considering that Dale was involved in that same start-lap disaster as Mario...but I think there was more to that than just that once annoyance.