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St Andrews Day Trivia


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#1 D-Type

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:00

November 30th being St Andrews day here's some simple trivia questions

1) Name the Scots who have won a GP? I think there are six

2) Name the Scots who have won Indy? I think there are two

3) Name the Scots who have won Le Mans (driver pairing)? I can think of one pairing

4) Name the Scots who have won the European Touring Car Championship? I can think of one

5) Name the Scot who has, quite justifiably, appeared at a racing circuit wearing two different tartans?

6) Who first raced in 'Scottish Dark blue'? I don't know the answer

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#2 BorderReiver

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:50

Happy St Andrews day to all fellow Scots!

As for the questions, it's far to late/early to start thinking about those right now.

#3 eldougo

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 03:13

1) Name the Scots who have won a GP? I think there are six Clark ,Stewart,McNish ,Coulthard,Dumfries,??????

2) Name the Scots who have won Indy? I think there are two..Clark ..Crawford .

3) Name the Scots who have won Le Mans (driver pairing)? I can think of one pairing

4) Name the Scots who have won the European Touring Car Championship? I can think of one Tom Walkinshaw
5) Name the Scot who has, quite justifiably, appeared at a racing circuit wearing two different tartans?

6) Who first raced in 'Scottish Dark blue'? I don't know the answer

Happy St Andrews day to all fellow Scots!

#4 ensign14

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 07:01

Originally posted by D-Type
November 30th being St Andrews day here's some simple trivia questions

1) Name the Scots who have won a GP? I think there are six

2) Name the Scots who have won Indy? I think there are two

3) Name the Scots who have won Le Mans (driver pairing)? I can think of one pairing

4) Name the Scots who have won the European Touring Car Championship? I can think of one

5) Name the Scot who has, quite justifiably, appeared at a racing circuit wearing two different tartans?

6) Who first raced in 'Scottish Dark blue'? I don't know the answer

1. OTTOMH, Stewart, Clark, Coulthard, Ireland, Stirling Moss...um...

2. Clark...um...

3. Flockhart/Sanderson - driving for Ecurie Ecosse

4. Walkinshaw

5. Jackie Stewart - the Stewart hunting tartan and the team tartan

6. Guessing it was the Calthorpes in the GP de l'ACF back in 1908...they raced in dark blue in a tartan pattern

#5 eldougo

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 07:32

:) 1) Name the Scots who have won a GP? I think there are six Clark ,Stewart,McNish ,Coulthard,Dumfries,Charlie Crichton-Stuart.

#6 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 07:45

Originally posted by D-Type
November 30th being St Andrews day here's some simple trivia questions

1) Name the Scots who have won a GP? I think there are six

2) Name the Scots who have won Indy? I think there are two

3) Name the Scots who have won Le Mans (driver pairing)? I can think of one pairing

4) Name the Scots who have won the European Touring Car Championship? I can think of one

5) Name the Scot who has, quite justifiably, appeared at a racing circuit wearing two different tartans?

6) Who first raced in 'Scottish Dark blue'? I don't know the answer


1) I found only 4 (Clark, Coulthard, Ireland, Stewart).
Dumfries, McNish et al never won. Crichton-Stuart never drove in F1.

2) I count only one : the great Jimmy.
Nor Stewart nor yet Franchitti won.

3) Flockhart & Sanderson

4) Walkinshaw

5) Stewart

6) Ecurie Ecosse circa 1952 ???

#7 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 07:58

Ah, once again I see we are falling into the 'WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP GRAND PRIX' trap. D-type said Grand Prix, not necessarily championship race.



#8 ensign14

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 08:04

Mm, but if you're gonna include all Grands Prix, there must be other Scots that won in F3 et al. Gerry Birrell?

#9 Gerr

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 08:23

3) Dario Resta was a Scot.

#10 D-Type

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:45

Come on folks you're doing well. :up:

One correction: There may be seven answers to Question 1 not six :blush:
One of mine is still missing. And the question refers to races with Grand Prix status so the F3 Luxembourg GP, for example, doesn't count.

#11 ensign14

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:48

Did Gillie Tyrer win something like the Charterhall GP in his sporty Jag?

#12 BorderReiver

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:27

Okay my best guesses.

1. Clark, Stewart, Coulthard, Ireland, Crawford (1982 British F1 Champion) and McNish (it seems inconceivable that McNish wouldn't have won something with the Grand Prix Monica in F3 or F3000, in fact I saw Alan win an F3000 race at Brands, could that have been a Grand Prix? My memory is hazy though, I was only about 7). Perhaps Birrel should be in the list too.

2. Clark and ummm, you got me.

3. Flockhart and Sanderson, 1956.

4. Tom Walkinshaw

5. Must be Jackie Stewart.

6. God knows, the first Ecurie Eccosse race? Earlier?

#13 David McKinney

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:32

ISTR Rob Walker cars raced in SRB before Ecurie Ecosse - perhaps the ERA-Delage in 1950?

gerr
Never heard that one before

D
Do you mean races of GP status that were called GPs?

#14 Jimmy Piget

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:43

Dario Resta was born in Milano. He emigrated when a boy to London. No sign of Scotland in his life, sorry.

If the refered "GP" were not run by GP cars but other classes (F2, F3000, F3, F junior, Sportscars, production cars...), Scot winners must be more than 4, but how to verify ?

#15 KJJ

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 11:31

Where did the rumour of Dario Resta's Scottish connection start, it is certainly something I have read before, possibly in Motor Sport a few years ago.

Oh dear I hope Innes Ireland's misfortune at being born in Yorkshire isn't going to be held against him. Of course he was a Scot! The Duke of Wellington dealt with these problems of birthplace and nationality many years ago.

#16 JtP

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 12:19

Originally posted by ensign14
1. OTTOMH, Stewart, Clark, Coulthard, Ireland, Stirling Moss...um...


and Ayr Toon Centre.

#17 BorderReiver

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 12:36

Originally posted by KJJ
Where did the rumour of Dario Resta's Scottish connection start, it is certainly something I have read before, possibly in Motor Sport a few years ago.


There are a lot of Scots Italians, perhaps he is related to some? Perhaps one of his parents is Scottish? It's feasible he might well have links, but he isn't a Scot in the sense that he is under the Saltire.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the Franchitti family owns a resteraunt in Edinburgh? If so I think I've eaten in it, there was a little signed Kool Green car behind the till and the pasta was excellent.

#18 FrankB

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 12:46

Originally posted by JtP


and Ayr Toon Centre.


MacHale Schumacher?

Gillie and Jock Villeneuve?

Jock Ainwright?

#19 wdm

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 13:15

Originally posted by JtP
and Ayr Toon Centre.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Willie

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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 13:28

Originally posted by BorderReiver
There are a lot of Scots Italians, perhaps he is related to some? Perhaps one of his parents is Scottish? It's feasible he might well have links, but he isn't a Scot in the sense that he is under the Saltire.....


Were the Scottish Italians the result of training resistance people in WW2?

I know that Poles were sent to Scotland for training along these lines. And one I know about married an Italian who was there for the same purpose...

#21 KJJ

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 14:02

Don't know about Scotland but most of the Italians in Wales had cafes or ice cream parlours, most came from one area around Bardi. Probably something similar in Scotland.

#22 fifi

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 14:09

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Incidentally, does anyone know if the Franchitti family owns a resteraunt in Edinburgh? If so I think I've eaten in it, there was a little signed Kool Green car behind the till and the pasta was excellent.


its possible that some of the family have a restuarnt in edinburgh, however Dario's immeidate family hail from west lothian

#23 BRG

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 16:28

Dario Franchitti has a cousin called Paul di Resta , now in F. Renault. He hails from Bathgate in W. Lothian. If that's any help?

#24 D-Type

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 17:36

Originally posted by D-Type
November 30th being St Andrews day here's some simple trivia questions

1) Name the Scots who have won a GP? I think there are six

2) Name the Scots who have won Indy? I think there are two

3) Name the Scots who have won Le Mans (driver pairing)? I can think of one pairing

4) Name the Scots who have won the European Touring Car Championship? I can think of one

5) Name the Scot who has, quite justifiably, appeared at a racing circuit wearing two different tartans?

6) Who first raced in 'Scottish Dark blue'? I don't know the answer

Ok my answers:

1) David Coulthard, Jackie Stewart, Jim Clark, Innes Ireland, that's four. Dario Resta (I have him as being born in Italy of an Italian father and Scottish mother, or the other way round, giving him British citizenship and Scottish nationality) makes five. Then we have Rob Walker as an entrant (sneaky) making six. And if I have him then possibly Charles Crichton-Stuart also qualifies as an entrant making maybe seven..

2) Jim Cark and Dario Resta

3) Ron Flockhart, Ninian Sanderson and an Ecurie Ecosse D-type in 1956

4) Tom Walkinshaw

5) Sir Jackie Stewart - he raced in a helmet with a Royal Stuart band on it (I'm 90% certain it was Royal stuart rather than Hunting Stuart) and as team owner he wore trewsin the team's bespoke registered tartan.

6) I genuinely don't know. Contenders are Ecurie Ecosse, Rob walker (but when?) and (if Ensign 14 was serious) Calthorpes in the GP de l'ACF back in 1908

There was a "Scottish Grand Prix" once upon a time, which was won by a Jaguar, probably Gillie Tyrer as Ensign 14 says. I reckoned that was too obscure and too minor to count and it may have been Formule Libre anyway.

Much as I'd like to claim Stirling Crauford (sp?) Moss, I think that's stretching credibility a bit far.

Best wrong answer? Dead heat between Ayr Toon Centre, Gillie and Jock Villeneuve


So does anybody know for certain whether Dario Resta can be considered a Scot? And have we an answer to the Racing Blue question?

#25 fifi

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 17:40

Originally posted by BRG
Dario Franchitti has a cousin called Paul di Resta , now in F. Renault. He hails from Bathgate in W. Lothian. If that's any help?


hes actually from a place called whitburn but we wont argue for the sake of 3 miles :p

#26 Twin Window

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 17:55

Originally posted by D-Type

And if I have him then possibly Charles Crichton-Stuart also qualifies as an entrant making maybe
seven...

During the 1966 Temporada series, Charlie won the Gran Premio
Internacional Yacimentos Petroliferos Fiscales 1966 XV Temporada Argentina, Round 3 at the
Autodromo General San Martin, Circuito No. 2, Mendoza, Argentina. He duly won the series with a
second place in the final round.

Does that count as a Grand Prix in the context of this thread?

#27 ensign14

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 18:05

Originally posted by D-Type
6) I genuinely don't know. Contenders are Ecurie Ecosse, Rob walker (but when?) and (if Ensign 14 was serious) Calthorpes in the GP de l'ACF back in 1908

For once, I was. The source is TASO Mathieson's book on the GPs from 1906 to 1914. The cars were given a nickname which escapes me for the moment - something like the Toffee Boxes or Biscuit Tins - by the locals.

Given that the whole "national colour" seems a bit less cut & dried pre-WW1 than you would otherwise be led to believe - the Renaults were in red in the GP of 1906, Napier wore red before green, Italy's colour was black when the States had red, possibly somewhat ad-hoc in the early days - it is no wonder they had a patriotic blue rather than the supposed official green. But I cannot think offhand of any other Scottish entrant to a major international race before then, so they may well have been the first.

As for the Stewart tartan, Paul had a different, predominantly green tartan - maybe this was the Stewart hunting tartan?

#28 David McKinney

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 19:53

Originally posted by D-Type
There was a "Scottish Grand Prix" once upon a time, which was won by a Jaguar, probably Gillie Tyrer as Ensign 14 says. I reckoned that was too obscure and too minor to count and it may have been Formule Libre anyway.

Wasn't Gillie Tyrer from the North of England (not the country to the north of England)?

#29 ensign14

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 21:08

Looked the Scottish colours up - the blue cars were not Calthorpes, they were Arrol-Johnstons and they were nicknamed the "Butterscotch Boxes". And it was 1912, but apart from that I was correct. :p

The blue colour - painted in the Gordon tartan pattern - was allocated to them by the Sporting Commission of the ACF, which dished out the colours; for 1912, they changed America from red & white to blue & white, and gave Switzerland red & white instead of red & yellow.

So 1912's your target for Scottish Racing Blue.

On the colours, it seems the ACF did not enforce the Gordon-Bennett colours for the first GP, perhaps to demonstrate a deliberate break from the GB Cup. In 1907 the ACF allocated red to Italy in place of black and asked the American cars to distinguish themselves by adding white. The only American car that year was the Christie, which could probably be more accurately described as white with a red bonnet; perhaps the inspiration for the Stutzes at Indy a few years later?

#30 crozier74

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 23:16

D'oh! Missed this one before it slipped off the front page! :rolleyes:

Thus, a belated happy St Andrews day to all fellow Scots and north o the border dwellers :) :wave:

#31 JtP

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 02:37

Crozier 74, are you Kerr Crozier son?

#32 Ian Stewart

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 03:28

Belated Happy St. Andrew's Day to everyone!

Not that it helps much, but the Ecurie Ecosse blue was accidental until David Murray first saw it. The car which led to the decision had been silver, then darkish red, then after another shunt it went back to Merchiston Mews in the blue which was to become the team colour.

This happened at exactly the time David was finalising plans for the team. He liked the colour, recognised its affinity to the Saltire, and made the decision.

I don't think David gave a moment's thought to previous users of the Saltire blue, and the flag wasn't a dark blue like Rob Walker's anyway.

The whole thing was pure chance. ;)

#33 crozier74

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 17:53

@JtP:-

YES!!

Wow, I really wasn't expecting to see that when I logged, got a right shock! :p

Archibald Kerr Crozier, formerly of Burnblea St. and then Iona Ridge, Hamilton, used to work for Weir Pumps, then moved "up north" in the early-mid eighties. How d'you know my Dad? Old school friend or something along those lines? Send me a PM please, I'm very intrigued now! :D :stoned:

Richard :wave:

#34 JtP

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 18:46

Crozier 74. Want disqualified again? your friendly CD (or possibly not friendly?).

#35 LB

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 19:18

Dario Franchitti won the Grand Prix of Houston in 1998, the Detroit Grand Prix in 1999 also the Marconi Grand Prix of Cleveland in 2001 all in champ cars/CART.Its all in a name :D

#36 D-Type

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 21:14

I've checked up and found only one very dubious reference to Dario Resta being Scottish, but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere before. The confusion may come from the fact that Dario Franchitti's nephew Paul di Resta, who is aalso a Scot, is racing in Formula Renault.

my apologies to anybody who has wasted time looking it up.

#37 BorderReiver

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 21:16

Originally posted by D-Type
I've checked up and found only one very dubious reference to Dario Resta being Scottish, but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere before. The confusion may come from the fact that Dario Franchitti's nephew Paul di Resta, who is aalso a Scot, is racing in Formula Renault.

my apologies to anybody who has wasted time looking it up.


Stop procrastinating! :D

Tell us the answers already! ;)

#38 D-Type

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 21:41

Originally posted by BorderReiver


Stop procrastinating! :D

Tell us the answers already! ;)

:confused: See post 24!

#39 BorderReiver

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 21:44

Originally posted by D-Type

:confused: See post 24!


I am a cast iron cretin.

Apologies.

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#40 JtP

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 23:46

Originally posted by LB
Dario Franchitti won the Grand Prix of Houston in 1998:D



Yes I know, because I was there. Spent Saturday getting prepared, down to Dollar Value for a cooler, round to HEB for the food and drink, Albersons for the Sun block. Stopped at gas station on the way into Houston for the bag of ice for the cooler and it pissed down most of the day. Should have gone and bought waterproofs instead.

Got stopped by a cop on the way back who told me in soe sort of unintelligible language that he was some sort of deputy sheriff and didn't like my driving, I had done the British thing and moved over to let him by to stop him tail gateing me while blocked by a car in front of me. He decided to pass me on the inside at the same time. So I replied in my best Scottish accent "officer, I cannot understand a word you are saying"!

#41 Graham Gauld

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:20

To clear up one point once and for all. Dario Resta was not a Scot but he was enlisted in the Arrol Johnston team in the early 1900's which I think has led to this confusion.He later went on to win Indianapolis - the last European to win Indy before Jim Clark in 1965.

#42 D-Type

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 18:09

Thanks Graham, it's nice to clear away the misinformation. I'll contact the site with the wrong information.

That just leaves the question of Scottish blue.
Ian has cleared up the origin of Ecurie Ecosse blue, which you will be relieved to know agrees with what you wrote in the Ecosse book. All that's left is Rob Walker's blue and whether there's any precedent other than the 1912 Arrol Johnstons. My guess is he simply liked the colour and later realised it matched the Scotland Rugby jersey and declared it Scottish racing blue. Any ideas?

#43 Mac Lark

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 23:18

Originally posted by D-Type
All that's left is Rob Walker's blue and whether there's any precedent other than the 1912 Arrol Johnstons. My guess is he simply liked the colour and later realised it matched the Scotland Rugby jersey and declared it Scottish racing blue. Any ideas?


As I recall, Rob Walker says as much in his book.

McLark

#44 D-Type

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 23:23

One of the books on my 'want' list.

#45 Mac Lark

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:38

Hard to find I'm told but good luck


McLark