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GP Data Book 1997 (Hayhoe & Holland), page 458


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#1 Muzza

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 17:42

Dear Fellows,


I have a copy of Grand Prix Data Book 1997, by David Hayhoe and David Holland (published by Duke Marketing, ISBN 0-95299325-0-4) which has, on its page 458, an interesting feature called "Drivers often not known by their real name". This article lists the complete name of "all" grand prix (meaning Formula 1 championship races) and of Indy 500 starters within the 1950-1960 period (when this race counted points towards the Formula 1 title).

Trouble is that this list, sorted alphabetically, abruptly ends with... Mike Hawthorn. I tried to contact Duke a few years ago (twice, actually) to get a print-out of the missing page(s), but I never got a reply (rather disappointing, since I highly regard Duke). Oddly, an acquaintance of mine has a copy of the book with... the same problem.

Are any of you an owner of this book? Does your copy show the complete list of drivers under the "Drivers often not known by their real name" article? (I mean, names past Mike Hawthorn)

If so, could you please send me a scan of this (these) page(s)?

Many thanks for your attention,


Muzza

P. S.: Alternatively, if someone knows the name of a person at Duke that would reply to my e-mails or phone calls that would be appreciated as well.

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#2 petefenelon

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 17:52

Originally posted by Muzza
Dear Fellows,

...This article lists the complete name of "all" grand prix (meaning Formula 1 championship races)


....and those F2 races in 1952-3 that were part of the championship ;)

Will check my copy of the book tonight - was given it as a freebie at Autosport International a few years ago for spending some silly number of pounds on one of the bookstalls ;)

#3 Muzza

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 18:15

Originally posted by petefenelon


....and those F2 races in 1952-3 that were part of the championship ;) [...]


You got that right, Pete!

Thank you very much, I appreciate your help.


Muzza

#4 conjohn

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 18:17

Muzza, I have the 1995 edition, and in that the list goes all the way to Vic Wilson...

Check your PMs...

#5 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 18:46

Originally posted by Muzza
Dear Fellows,


I have a copy of Grand Prix Data Book 1997, by David Hayhoe and David Holland (published by Duke Marketing, ISBN 0-95299325-0-4) which has, on its page 458, an interesting feature called "Drivers often not known by their real name". This article lists the complete name of "all" grand prix (meaning Formula 1 championship races) and of Indy 500 starters within the 1950-1960 period (when this race counted points towards the Formula 1 title).

Trouble is that this list, sorted alphabetically, abruptly ends with... Mike Hawthorn. I tried to contact Duke a few years ago (twice, actually) to get a print-out of the missing page(s), but I never got a reply (rather disappointing, since I highly regard Duke). Oddly, an acquaintance of mine has a copy of the book with... the same problem.

Are any of you an owner of this book? Does your copy show the complete list of drivers under the "Drivers often not known by their real name" article? (I mean, names past Mike Hawthorn)

If so, could you please send me a scan of this (these) page(s)?

Many thanks for your attention,


Muzza

P. S.: Alternatively, if someone knows the name of a person at Duke that would reply to my e-mails or phone calls that would be appreciated as well.


Muzza, David Holland is a TNF'r! Just e-mail him & he'll set you right :D

#6 Muzza

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 18:50

Oh, Richie,

I never thought that this David Holland could be that one!

Many thanks :up: . As a matter of respect for Pete Fenelon's and Conny's willingness to help me, I will wait for their replies first before contacting David.

Cheers,


Muzza

#7 David Holland

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 18:51

You won't find any full lists in the Duke edition (or big yellow as it's called due to its oversize production) that was a mistake at the printers. The previous edition (white paperback) has the full list but this has since been updated.
You can drop me a pm and I will get the full updated list to you if you wish. There will be a new edition of the GPDB in Jan 2006 which should be a lot more user friendly and also up-to-date!

#8 Muzza

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 19:28

Dear All,


Many thanks to all of you that have replied to this thread. Conjohn was kind enough to e-mail me pages of the 1995 edition of the book corresponding to those I miss.

David, I will contact you by pm - and I am looking forward to the 2006 edition!

Best regards, (you are great, guys :clap: )


Muzza

#9 quintin cloud

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 19:59

Muzza I have a copy of the 1997 edition of the book, PM me your email address and I will send the page to you.

:up: :smoking:

#10 Muzza

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 23:42

Originally posted by quintin cloud
Muzza I have a copy of the 1997 edition of the book, PM me your email address and I will send the page to you.

:up: :smoking:


Hello, Quintin,


Thanks for your offer, but if you have the 1997 edition of the book so most likely (as David Holland explained above) you have the same problem I do - the article ends on Mike Hawthorn, with no names following.

Do you agree?

(just trying to clarify a possible misunderstanding)


Muzza

#11 petefenelon

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 01:30

Mine is indeed yellow and ends at Hawthorn...

#12 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 08:02

This might be a pertinent place to mention that these 2 fine gentlemen, David Hayhoe and David Holland (known, of course as DH1 and DH2) were the founders and organisers of the
pre-Internet 'Grand Prix Contact Club' which was very active in the 1990s.

It was responsible for the commencement of many international friendship and, IIRC even the odd wedding.

As I said, two excellent people.

My book is the same as Muzza's but DH1 sent me a printed copy of that section which is inserted, loosely into position.

#13 subh

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 12:42

Can anyone post the final list on this thread?

#14 quintin cloud

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 17:22

Originally posted by Muzza


Hello, Quintin,


Thanks for your offer, but if you have the 1997 edition of the book so most likely (as David Holland explained above) you have the same problem I do - the article ends on Mike Hawthorn, with no names following.

Do you agree?

(just trying to clarify a possible misunderstanding)


Muzza


Hi Muzza

As I said in the PM that I sent you I have got the book (1997 edition) and I can send a scan of the missing page to you just let me know where to send it.

:up: :smoking:

#15 quintin cloud

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 17:34

What have done is uploaded the page to the net and you can get it at the following link:

http://mysite.mweb.c...las/page458.jpg

I will leave it on the net for a about a week then I will take it off.

:clap: :wave: :up: :smoking:

#16 Nanni Dietrich

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 14:11

Originally posted by subh
Can anyone post the final list on this thread?


Please, friends: we are curious.

#17 ReWind

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 15:52

Don't expect too much from that list. I suppose in some cases it simply contains guesses instead of facts.

For instance: If this site is credible then Gerry Ashmore's real name isn't Gerald!

#18 David Holland

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Posted 04 December 2004 - 09:59

Muzza, just seen your pm I will email the list to you now - sorry about the delay.

Barry, you're too much - making me blush. I will send you some info on Leslie Marr's Connaught that we discussed at Goodwood. I had a letter from him the other day which explains the paintwork of the body and wheels.

Rewind, I'm not sure what you're suggesting. That we guess instead of proper research! The odd mistake or mis-informed material can sometimes find its way in but there would be no point in making things up. Better there is a gap in the files than a piece of fiction.

#19 Roger Clark

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Posted 04 December 2004 - 10:32

Originally posted by ReWind
Don't expect too much from that list. I suppose in some cases it simply contains guesses instead of facts.

For instance: If this site is credible then Gerry Ashmore's real name isn't Gerald!

following the link from that site to Richie Jenkins' WATN, I see that he has Ashmore active years are 1951/52. This should be 61/62.

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#20 ReWind

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Posted 04 December 2004 - 15:59

Originally posted by David Holland
Rewind, I'm not sure what you're suggesting. That we guess instead of proper research! The odd mistake or mis-informed material can sometimes find its way in but there would be no point in making things up. Better there is a gap in the files than a piece of fiction.

Calm down. I do not suggest anything. But as a matter of fact not every „Cliff“ is a „Clifford“ as shown by this gravestone which should be proof that Cliff Griffith’s real name wasn’t Clifford but Clifton.

And so I’m afraid not every „Bill“ is a „William“ (as exemplied by Willard Cantrell), not every „Bob“ is a „Robert“ (as exemplied by Frederick Roberts Gerard), and „Helm“ isn’t „Helmut“ (as exemplified by Helm Glöckler).

And I frankly say I’m surprised to see Christopher Amon without „Arthur“, Melvin Bettenhausen without „Eugene“, John Brabham without „Arthur“, Thomas Anthony Crook without „Donald“, Bernard Ecclestone without „Charles“, Daniel Gurney without „Sexton“ and James Hall without „Ellis“.

Of course no offence intended. Just a statement of facts.

#21 David Holland

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Posted 05 December 2004 - 12:36

Rewind,

That's a good point about first names, but we are careful not to assume. The reason why some of the christian/first names are not included is that the list (created really by David Hayhoe) is to emphasise drivers who used different names to their proper given name. It is not really a list of full names as we have not attempted to find the middle names of all world championship drivers. If there was space in the drivers section we could list all the full names instead, but this would include a lot of research that really went into the world of minute trivia. I don't think middle names are that interesting and it would be hard to start a comprehensive search that would remain unfinished. There is quite a comprehensive list of full names on forix and these seem to be added where known, which is probably the right way to approach this subject.

BTW I'm quite calm, no offence taken and none intended either.