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#1301 Kelpiecross

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:35

http://www.waterhist...stories/london/
 
 
Started in the very late 1500s, but more properly in the 1600s. I was out by a century!
 
"Artist's conception of London Bridge circa 1600. The first arch on the north was used for a water wheel and the first two arches on the south were occupied by wheels for corn mills "


Thank you Woozy - very interesting - in fact the whole article is interesting.

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#1302 Wuzak

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:28

Thank you Woozy - very interesting - in fact the whole article is interesting.

 

Goes to show that these new age power generation devices aren't all that new....

 

Now they are getting them in New York City.

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...ss-river-power/

http://www.nytimes.c...rate-power.html

 

(The first one I cam across a few years ago, the second is newer.)



#1303 Feliks

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 00:53

Here we see that nuclear power plants and water are exposed to blowing up .. My idea of ​​all the tanks of salt water, to build on the high coast of the sea, is very safe and resistant to the threat of terrorism .. Because if even jtos shaft blow tank, the stored water, practically this water will not do any damage, because the drain into the sea, which is near ..

 

http://enenews.com/b...-possible-video

 

800MW.JPG

 

Now we see the picture, the upper lake with an area of ​​1.2 km sqare .. gives you energy for 8 hours, 700 MW ... or 24 hours it would have to be 3.6 km sqare .. 
Imagine this upper lake measuring 8 km x 8 km = 64 km sqare .. 
64/3, 6 = 17 .. now 17 x 700 = 12, 000 MW ~ .. 
That is more than all British nuclear plants... :p
 
Andrew :smoking:  :smoking:


#1304 Greg Locock

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:38

That's a pretty amazing claim, let's see for the original design assuming it is 400m deep 1.2*.4=0.5*10^6*10^3 kg of water. h=200, so total energy is 0.5e9*2e3 J=1e12 J. 7 hours = 7*3.6e3=25e3 seconds. so average power would be 40 MW. OK so I guessed dimensions but is it really a factor of 17 out? I won't check the rest.



#1305 Feliks

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:08

No. of mathematics we will not argue .. reservoir has an area of ​​1.2 km and a depth of perhaps 20 m. Difference levels of 100 meters and no more than 700 MW...

unfortunately only in Polish ...

 

http://pl.wikipedia....ornik_Czymanowo

http://pl.wikipedia....Wodna_Żarnowiec

 

Andrew



#1306 gruntguru

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:06

That's a pretty amazing claim, let's see for the original design assuming it is 400m deep 1.2*.4=0.5*10^6*10^3 kg of water. h=200, so total energy is 0.5e9*2e3 J=1e12 J. 7 hours = 7*3.6e3=25e3 seconds. so average power would be 40 MW. OK so I guessed dimensions but is it really a factor of 17 out? I won't check the rest.

I make it 1.2*.4=0.5*10^9*10^3 kg of water so average power = 3.8 GW

 

For Feliks' dimensions 20m x (1.2 x 10^6) x 10^3 x 100m / (7*3.6e3=25e3) = 95 MW average power



#1307 Greg Locock

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:05

bah units of area.Ta 



#1308 Feliks

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 18:00

Link not work?  other links
 
 
 
:wave:


#1309 Feliks

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 19:50

Tsunamim from the mainland to the nuclear facilities?
You just can not build a whole country as safe as Nuclear power plant itself .. therefore will be different events ..
In my idea of fresh water tank bund height, does not have to be high, just 20 m, because the same tank now you have to build on the high bank, for example, 100 m (300 ft) course very near sea ..

 

http://enenews.com/n...g-happens-video

 

 

http://seattletimes....iadamcrack.html

 

Andrew  :wave:



#1310 Greg Locock

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 21:14

I think, if you live in an uninhabited country, that coastal hydro makes a lot of sense. But at least where most of us live the idea of flooding the coastal plains is a fairly drastic solution, not much different to the threats of rising sea level which may or may not turn out to be significant..



#1311 Feliks

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 23:20

I think, if you live in an uninhabited country, that coastal hydro makes a lot of sense. But at least where most of us live the idea of flooding the coastal plains is a fairly drastic solution, not much different to the threats of rising sea level which may or may not turn out to be significant..

Nuclear power plant of 800 MW shall be adopted for the area of 5 x 5 km ... 64 km square So it have any 3 such power ... but here is 12000 Mw of free space for 15 nuclear power plants .. that is the difference, ie 12 will surface to be used for example to residence .. of course, the surface of the sea with swimmers will be pumping big ..

 

:wave:

 

Can someone pay me for finding 300 square km of free land in the UK? :rolleyes:


Edited by Feliks, 05 March 2014 - 01:03.


#1312 Greg Locock

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:30

Um, I don't think you quite realise the NIMBY challenge. If people can successfully object to wind turbines, imagine the reaction to wholesale flooding. Actually they did flood a county once to form a dam, I doubt that would get off the ground now.



#1313 Feliks

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 10:44

That if to fill all unused spaces up on ships with this polystyrene foam, most probably they stood unsinkable .

Thanks to the fact that it wouldn't be possible to sink them,
a lot of people so that it is possible to rescue.
And next
then to the shipyard it would be possible to tow away


Recently I noticed ,that the aircraft would be very useful by the ability to swimming
Two days ago :

BBC

tu142


If such a shortcut poliuretane foam for construction of such parameters:

896_1.jpg


Specifications specific gravity after hardening 11 - 16 ,3 kg/m3* Base polyurethane Productivity of 825 ml – 66 litres * c 100 mb of the stream about the diameter of 5 2 cm * Pyłosuchość 8 - 10 minutes * Time of processing 15 - 30 minutes * Time of hardening from 5 up to 48 h (full mechanical load capacity) * a free access of air is Necessary. One should not apply foam in rooms closed tightly. Resistance to UV rays weak in outside applications one should shelter the surface of foam from the UV radiation. Structure of cells of c 70 % smoothed, evenly closed cells thermal Resistance after hardening from – 40 ° C to + 90 ° C (short-term to + 140 ° C)


15 bottle give 1 m^3 (1000 litres) cost about 80 $ , this can swimm 1 tones

Tupolew 142 have 80 ton weight 80 x 15 = , need 1200 pieces bottles this foam .


All cost of foam 80 x 80 $= 6400 $.
Whole weight of the foam to allow the total buoyancy such an airplane is 1200 KG
It is only 1% of the total weight of the aircraft.

Wig area is 311 m^2 , 80 m^3/ 312 m^2 = 0,25 m the average amount of surface foam on the inside wings. I think that in this plane is so much unused space.

And such buoyancy of the aircraft would also be found useful for Airbus over the Atlantic, as well as the Boening over Hudson.

Regards Andrew :smoking:

 

Cam beck .. skeleton.jpg

 

If my ideas and name were not banished, supposedly in the interests of different groups, it can now this flight Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 would have ended differently .. no but tell me not to fight with the Windmills of Don Quixote .. I think you are the wiser and better knowledge of what to do .. instead of listening what to do .. I wonder if those who are on hand this banning, feel at least some share of responsibility for what happened ...

 

Andrew  :mad:



#1314 Feliks

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:54

 
Anyway, but now it comes to airplanes .. According to my old calculations in 1 square meter for the TU 142 to have a buoyancy should be an average of 25 cm of foam .. or on each side of the plate from inside the 12 cm ... It's such a little thicker siding ..
 
Andrew  :wave:


#1315 Feliks

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:11

Originally posted by AndrewF
You are Sancho Panza AICM£5
 
 
No, I'm probably more like Don Quixote fought windmills .. like me .. I guess he knew that something was wrong with them .. I only showed that the Windmill Red Baron may well serve the people .. But before all traditional windmills which Don Quixote fought disappear, probably it will be some time
 
arton69259.jpg
 
Andrew  :rolleyes:


#1316 Feliks

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:09

Andrew,
 
I subscribe to this thread and have always enjoyed your posts, so keep them going.
 
Regarding the use of foam to prevent aircraft from sinking when lost at sea, I don’t have the statistics, but anecdotally, I assume that most deaths are not due to drowning, but due to impact, or other high energy violent endings.  I believe the scenarios you are discussing likely have adequate solutions in place (life rafts, etc.).
 
I think an excellent area for the use of that type of foam would be in help reduce the death toll for passenger and roll on/off ferry accidents.  These seem to happen in rough seas, or in overcrowding conditions with sometimes large loss of life.
 
 
Richard
 
 
Thank you very much Richard for a good link and my subscriptions. I Normally you need only the broad outlines of the new ideas I present .. they require much development, by many people .. then they really for us is profitable .. 
Such inspirational posts like yours, Richard causes that describes more about the innovation .. 
 
Here I would like to say that the majority of pilots for emergency landing was going to make sure you water, if she was sure that the plane did not sink .. The waters, even on land is not much, for example, a lake or river. This launch is a big advantage. There is minimal risk of fire aircraft .. The most spectacular example is the "Miracle on the Hudson" 
Here you can see how little is needed to plane could swim ..
 
 
 
 
 
Andrew  :wave:

Edited by Feliks, 23 March 2014 - 11:15.


#1317 Kelpiecross

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:16

I am no expert on airliner design but although filling all the empty spaces with foam seems like a good idea - I doubt if it is practical. Planes are full of wiring, pipes etc. etc. and covering them up with foam could make maintenance or repair a nightmare - and possibly cover up potential problems.

The landing in the Hudson was interesting in that I had read for years that the engines hanging down below the wings would cause a plane to flip over on its back - but the landing just caused the engines to be ripped off quite easily - maybe the engines are designed to break away easily in these circumstances?

#1318 Feliks

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 14:10

I am no expert on airliner design but although filling all the empty spaces with foam seems like a good idea - I doubt if it is practical. Planes are full of wiring, pipes etc. etc. and covering them up with foam could make maintenance or repair a nightmare - and possibly cover up potential problems.

The landing in the Hudson was interesting in that I had read for years that the engines hanging down below the wings would cause a plane to flip over on its back - but the landing just caused the engines to be ripped off quite easily - maybe the engines are designed to break away easily in these circumstances?

Yes, you're right .. it's the heaviest element engine aircraft .. should be a possibility to get rid of them, the cancer is separated into different steps space rockets .. surely if you are broken, that anyone no longer are needed or how it runs out of fuel or not. . :wave:



#1319 Feliks

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 17:19

The plane actually has a tower of different things. plumbing, electrical .. But still has Most sending of empty unused space. . Of course you have to think 10 times, where we can insert each of 1 decimeter foam. Part needs to be done easily removable, in plastic bags or specially shaped profiles, that can be had for service to remove and after the back insert. It's a plane, one of the most complicated machines .. in addition with the high standards of reliability .. so it will not be pumping air into the inner tube ..

 

Andrew :smoking:



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#1320 Feliks

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:03

Well in my engine variable compression ratio is feasible only for a single device in all cylinders ..
But maybe for the help of such a device could still improve valve timing ?
 
 
 
Andrew :rolleyes:


#1321 Feliks

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:44

Click here czeski wioślarz .. Jak widac mozna .. Moja mała energia bedzie bardziej skuteczne, ale Kontrola sytem "Rower moze zrobic podobne ....
 
aairbicycle.jpg
 
 
 
Andrew  :smoking:

Edited by Feliks, 12 April 2014 - 10:47.


#1322 RogerGraham

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:27

ET2-1.jpg



#1323 Feliks

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:52

:cry:  :(  :(

 

All of these egg-shaped holes, a transition service .. next unused spaces .. There are rules that from a certain size vessels must have a double side and bottom. Fill the space with Styrofoam prevent sinking ....
 
10259747_10203785337658294_8576132956517
 
 
:mad:

Edited by Feliks, 17 April 2014 - 11:54.


#1324 Catalina Park

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 00:56

Fill the space with Styrofoam prevent sinking ....

Fill the space with styrofoam to prevent corrosion control.

#1325 Feliks

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 16:44

By education , I am Eng. mechanic. But I dealt with making the sound at concerts my apparatus .. It so happened that a few times , even ten times , I made a concert in Gdansk Shipyard Hall (which is then burned )
We have always had a pass to the shipyard , because the entrance to the hall was the scene from the side yard. I as the driver of the car, after a few hours of driving , I've always had a break , and my employees were unloading acoustic equipment and lined it . I have two hours of free time , and this pass, always walked across the yard and spied on how the technology of shipbuilding . Often talked with employees who explained to me the various ins and outs of building ships . Then I met shipbuilding quite accurately , because she was always very interested mechanics ... Then I came to realize concert .. With these trips , I know how much free space is on a big ship . Here I present figure of the ferry , which sink .. Knowing its importance , which is 6800 tons , and subtracting approximately 1,500 tons , steel, wood , fuel , and such a variety can displace water , leaves us to displace the water about 5300 tons. , And then ship will not drown .. an average of 5300 tonnes divided by the length of the vessel is 146 meters = one meter will fall an average of 36 tons. so much water should displace to get afloat .. Now the height of each side of the free spaces submerged to 2 x 10 meters. .. For the average 15 meters wide double bottom .. together gives us 35 running meters , part of the flotation technique around the ship ( floating section ) .. So enough that the average thickness of 1 m polystyrene foam , applied to each inner metal shell of the ship , provided the to always buoyancy of the ship .... only 1 meter thick ..
 
Ferry.jpg
 
When it comes to airplanes, it also thoroughly know their structures .. In carrying about 1,000 concerts in the former Soviet Union, every change of concerts, took place only airplanes * Once was a car, but I said 'never again' J. I had to upilnowania 40 boxes with equipment weighing about 3 tons .. Always, as soon as possible, guarding the proper loading and unloading, personally entered the baggage compartments, aircraft, whom the trip was .. And these were the aircraft from AN2 to Il 82 all types which were in the Soviet Union .. So exactly what I learned there are opportunities. And I know that a lot of them too .. Especially as it applies molded styrofoam possible to remove, to do the service ..
 
Happy Easter for all  :wave:
 
Andrew :smoking:


#1326 Feliks

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:04

Nie sądzę, że zna się lub finansów lub bezpieczeństwa pasażerów. ):

 

http://www.dieselduc...d07f6&start=225

 


Edited by Feliks, 27 April 2014 - 08:10.


#1327 Kelpiecross

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 14:35


It's all Greek to me.

#1328 Feliks

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:08

 

There s also the issue of internal inspection of the tanks. All the regulatory authorities require internal visual inspections of the tanks and pressure testing through the life of the ship, and Ultra Sonic thickness testing of the steel plates, how can you do any of these things if the tank has been pumped full of foam?
 
If the Hull is damaged and a section of damaged steel has to be cut out and new steel welded in, what happens to the foam?
 
Lots of practical difficulties.
 
BP
 
It is a pity that very carelessly read my posts and you watch my pictures .. clearly wrote that it does not have to be foam, but moldings, such as in this link 
 
Also on section plane clearly can see that but there is a lot of free The places, and not how you think you .. Here is another one photo of the crash TU 154 
I think that you should carefully read my poste, and certainly you will become a proponent of my solutions, and we will not have to cry after drowning our children in the future   :( 
 
tu154.jpg


#1329 Feliks

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 00:57

 
So they go on the road foam, administer (at least for ships) foam glass, which is maybe a little heavier than styrofoam, but it resists 600 degrees Celsius temperature ..
 
to get the buoyancy as the ferry Sewol, it would have to be about 800 tonnes of such glass foam .. the same as the volume of polystyrene...
 
 
 
 
 
 
Andrew :smoking:


#1330 Wuzak

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:51

800 tonnes of "glass foam"?

 

Replacing what weight of air?

 

Also, since the "glass foam" is in the form of small pieces I should imagine that it would not prevent water ingress should the hull be damaged.



#1331 Feliks

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:26

http://www.rediff.co...er/20140429.htm

:(



#1332 Feliks

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 09:53

 
All of these flaps, ailerons and rudders are completely empty inside .. You have to be flame-retardant foam fill special for these air targets, and made in the form of fittings.
Clearly, the wings are half the space
wing.jpg
 
b737_wng.jpg
 
727_2.jpg
 
 
 
Also in the hull filling soundproofing could have been a foam instead of wool.
Wool absorbs water very quickly ..Surely you would need to develop now and again a special material, teeth had been closed and not soaked with water. and was close to the damping properties of wool. It is a big challenge, but with the quantity of aircraft produced, certainly to perform .. It's just to follow in this direction
 
1produ14.jpg
 
1produ20%20.jpg
 
1produ15.jpg
 
Andrew :wave:


#1333 Feliks

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:18

Talk with plenty of foam.
 
 
Andrew


#1334 Powersteer

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 14:48

 

Well in my engine variable compression ratio is feasible only for a single device in all cylinders ..
But maybe for the help of such a device could still improve valve timing ?

Some supercars, Ferrari Speciale for instance, run 14:1 compression ratio. New BMW M3 has 19ibs of boost yet on 10.2:1 compression ratio, unthinkable in the past where these would be race numbers. One would think a cocktail of direct injection and especially ignition retard have played a strong role manipulating fix compression ratio into the realm of dynamic variable compression ratio, not to mention variable cam the konzertmeister. With so much technology outside mechanically variable comrpesion ratio, it seems they manage to make it work this way, with a fix cimbustion chamber. Probably with direct injection, premature combustion is delayed so much that it only occurs so close to ignition, and homogenious comnbustion happens at the other side of a combustion chamber, disturbing combustion to piston timing harmony rather than creating a crator on a piston. So it comes back to, how much do we need a mechanism for variable compression ratio when it looks like it is already being done?

 

:cool:



#1335 Feliks

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 22:33

Yes, give examples of Ferrari and BMW ... It is at this moment for you TOP .. but these engines produce only a few thousand, and they are not determinant, for all engine builders whose particles million robioą Looking for different purposes .. And Example diesels, very need a variable compression .. for various reasons .. besides applying this mechanism to my new4stroke, also can be moved with simultaneous phase belt zmniennym compression ratio .. no, and what completely new - that is, moving the minimum chamber dozen degrees the zz, which results in much greater torque rotary. Even in this simple animation can be seen that the piston exhaust is almost in the middle of the crank arm at a maximum pressure of combustion .. The following is an unimaginably much torque, in spite of the piston is the smallest .. At the same time by shifting a few degrees on the crank of a large piston, we can large increases in the moment to have, or to save fuel. To do this, at the beginning of the thread, I told you that all of this could use a computer to simulate nuclear teeth together starred in the partition .. only then, jescze after the prototype we will be able to talk about the fact that we know how well-designed engine. and I'm sure it will be diesel, which is rotare up to 10 000 rpm

 

Andrew  :smoking:


Edited by Feliks, 14 May 2014 - 16:27.


#1336 Feliks

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 23:05

Well think again about the Red Baron. something on you tube not much you can see these vibrations..

 
The effect of two teaspoons on the wings of aviation profile facing each other stomachs. Wind from an ordinary hair dryer ... you can hear the clatter of high-frequency wing strokes of each other. That is, the vacuum, despite the very light wind is enormous. Disappears, as the wings come closer and then again .. Hence arises the clatter.
 
 
 
Andrew :smoking:

Edited by Feliks, 13 May 2014 - 23:06.


#1337 MatsNorway

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 13:07

Instead of foam you could use small balls. They take up space, can be reused easly by beeing simply sucked out, can be showeled out for work on local areas, and can be recycled. Problems? well they have probably a high.. is it up front cost they call it?

 

In addition they will a challenge to keep inside the ship if there is a opening in the hull. Nets could be used i guess but still a challenge as the better the net the worse the maintenance costs due to fidling with nets and nets gets ripped apart to so the balls will fall through that opening too... In addition you get the problem of getting to the work site as you have to get rid of lots of balls to get from entry to site.

 

-Higher maintenance costs.

-Higher up front costs

-Increased fire hazard

-Tricky to secure balls in a way that ensures them not floating out when there is a hole in the ship.

-Less lifting capacity than foam.

 

+Has the potential to make it harder to sink the ship

+Reusable balls over foam

+More enviromental friendly than tons of foam

+Easier to implement/try out at the prototype stage i think


Edited by MatsNorway, 15 May 2014 - 13:14.


#1338 Kelpiecross

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:23


If you put the flotation material under the floor of the aircraft fuselage or in a similar position in a ship or boat - it will turn upside-down if it fills with water.

#1339 Kelpiecross

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:34

All of these flaps, ailerons and rudders are completely empty inside ..


Beside the point a little - but on the English Electric Lightning most of these "empty" spaces were full of fuel.

The Lightning could exceed Mach 1 after takeoff on a typical airfield before it crossed the airfield boundary fence (or so I am told) - no wonder it used a lot of fuel.

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#1340 Feliks

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:34

Beside the point a little - but on the English Electric Lightning most of these "empty" spaces were full of fuel.

The Lightning could exceed Mach 1 after takeoff on a typical airfield before it crossed the airfield boundary fence (or so I am told) - no wonder it used a lot of fuel.

Surely these moving parts will not burn fuel .. And if it did, after dropping fuel, we get the empty spaces with no access water and they are even better than foam,

 

Andrew :wave:



#1341 Feliks

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bocolo View Post
But the wings will be damaged when they start banging each other. Right? /
 
No Bocolo, this film is just a demonstration, designed to show that between wings have been observed even small wind evolves very large force, which causes a vacuum. . It falls, but sparkled with momentum hits for himself .. because a large force was driven to such behavior. Of course, between the wings should give solid struts, which will determine the distance between them, chosen in the laboratory and Unclassifiable biggest Underpressure .. Then the vacuum should enter into the slit inside the wings of NACA FELIKS and further from the center of the wings for the help of some pipes, where we will be the most comfortable .. Of course at the end of the pipes have to give some engines vacuum, for example, a simple turbine, or a vane pump working as a motor ....
 
Andrew


#1342 Wuzak

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 00:26

 

All of these flaps, ailerons and rudders are completely empty inside .. You have to be flame-retardant foam fill special for these air targets, and made in the form of fittings.
Clearly, the wings are half the space

 

Since these are moveable components they are just as likely to break off when an aircraft impacts water. If they didn't depart the aircraft first, causing the aircraft to hit the water.

 

The wing spaces themselves are used for fuel. So no chance to put foam there.

 

Adding foam only helps buoyancy in so much as it prevents water from filling voids. In the case of the fuselage insulation, foam will not improve the situation if it cannot prevent water leaking to the interior. I'm not sure that aircraft fusealges are actally water tight, and they probably wouldn't be after high speed impact.

 

No matter how light the foam is, it is heavier than air. So an aircraft would remain more buoyant with air in the voids provided water didn't enter those voids.

 

And the added weight of foam in the voids may make a small difference to an individual aircraft's useful payload.



#1343 Wuzak

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 00:29

Regarding ships, I was under the impression that part of the reason for twin hull designs is that the outer hole can fail and let water ingress, but this is contained within a small area and the ship should remain buoyant even with part of the void flooded.



#1344 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:11

Um, I don't think you quite realise the NIMBY challenge. If people can successfully object to wind turbines, imagine the reaction to wholesale flooding. Actually they did flood a county once to form a dam, I doubt that would get off the ground now.

The Tassy Greenies are still campaigning!

Though reputedly with all their generation in Tassy it is too expensive for the National grid, that and the loss incurred sending it across Bass straight.

 

Though reservoirs can 'waste' a lot of ground too. Several here in South Oz were built on small townships. The last about 50 years ago. I doubt the NIMBYS would let that go now either. And to a degree they actually often do have a point.



#1345 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:34

I am no expert on airliner design but although filling all the empty spaces with foam seems like a good idea - I doubt if it is practical. Planes are full of wiring, pipes etc. etc. and covering them up with foam could make maintenance or repair a nightmare - and possibly cover up potential problems.

The landing in the Hudson was interesting in that I had read for years that the engines hanging down below the wings would cause a plane to flip over on its back - but the landing just caused the engines to be ripped off quite easily - maybe the engines are designed to break away easily in these circumstances?

The engines are designed to fall off in an accident, yes. As in facts are the wings  and the tail which are a bolt on replaceable item.

Filling a plane with foam is stupid, you would never get enough in there for true bouyancy. And the fire hazard as well as a ton of foam still weighs a lot and that would deplete the payload. Which makes the aircraft a viable means of trasportation. Also the reason your luggage is so severely limited when you fly now. 

Cargo planed carry more payload on the same airframe, but also load the payload far more efficiently to spread the load.

Think about your car with 2 fair sized passengers both leaning against the passenger doors, the steering pulls, put the back seat passenger in the middle the steering is far better. 

 

On  passenger aircraft sometimes the cabin crew will try to redistribute the ratio of light to heavy passengers. Get a party of rugby players and a party of primary school kids. Mix them up or the plane flies sideways! It may be safe to do so but it burns more fuel doing so. Fuel is weight, and money. And a perfectly balanced plane is safer in very bad conditions, in actual fact all vehicles are better when perfectly balanced what ever the size.

That is why we spend so much time corner weighting racecars. They handle better, power down better, and that is with whatever front to rear you have. Obviously a racecar is better with a percentage of rear weight, a road car is ideal with the load distributed equally on all 4 corners, something impossible to do normally so the car is bum down fully loaded and light, bum up with a driver only. Most vehicles actually have a spring packer or even a different rate spring on the drivers side front. TC TD Cortinas for instance also used a different rate shock left to right on the back. That was compensating for a poorly balanced suspension. Aftermarket shocks are sold in matched pairs so actually are not as good as the original for pure ride quality.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 17 May 2014 - 01:41.


#1346 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:40

Regarding ships, I was under the impression that part of the reason for twin hull designs is that the outer hole can fail and let water ingress, but this is contained within a small area and the ship should remain buoyant even with part of the void flooded.

Exactly, and beyond that all the compartments have water tight doors as too limit the intake of water to localised areas. Though when a ship tears itself open on rocks or is torpedoed the weight of water on one side or end will still send it down. Often the compartments will fail with the volume of water. Or jam not allowing passengers [or other cargo] to be accesed.

 

Again weight distribution is the killer.

Look at the above pic of the ship being wrecked, it is all illustrated.



#1347 Feliks

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 23:59

Here drawings like two wings facing each other bellies they give huge wind acceleration and negative pressure which we introduce inside the wings. If the wings will be mounted permanently, with sufficient clearance between them, and may be greater plenty of slots, a big part of the lift force will turn on underpressure which will be inside the wings could create a fairly low pressure and large its quantitative yield .. If so it will already know how to use a vacuum with a good efficiency, for example by the vane pump is running, vacuum-as a motor ... the motor can drive the generators or.... propeller ... 
 
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Andrew :smoking:  :smoking:


#1348 Feliks

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 00:00

And now the strangest thing .. On the screen shots from the simulator to the airfoil published by NASA, pointed red frame so strange two values that can be set on the simulator .. Namely, in terms of drag and lift. and would not have believed in their value, if not the simulator, which included such a serious company like NASA .. In the first image you can see that the drag is set to 21 Newton.Lift has until 244 Newton .... So for the help of a smaller force is a much more powerful .. Something with anything ... this force is with 11.6 times greater than the resistance (drag). 
 
In the second figure also drag is 12 Newtons, and lift 191 Newtons .. ie with 15.9 times greater .. 
I think that these simulations are accurate .. 
Now, if even half of the value obtained for lift holding strength to produce the drug's effects, it would lift force will be very high ... So we use 85 Newtons of lift to overcome the resistance (drag) 12 Newtons. that is enough for us to capture power efficiency, and conversion to drag about 14%. (eg rotary vane pump + propeller). I think it is really to do with such a small sufficient efficiency .. So the system can move itself by overcoming drag and float in the air At 85 Newtons lift .. I guess that NASA is wrong ... 
So says the theory .....
 
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Andrew 


#1349 Feliks

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 14:57

Rely on nice weather I visited on a walk Aviation Museum in Krakow, to see what's new, you can see .. Oh, and I saw a passenger plane Ilyushin Il-14, which was taken off the canopy flaps wings .. Turns out there can be visible between the ribs on the insert shapes Styrofoam quite calmly, there's nothing there, outside the free space .. judging by the number would be that of the keel cubic meters ....
 
 
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Andrew  :wave:


#1350 Greg Locock

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 23:28

Well felix, I'll make your day. real life results indicate that some sailplanes have a lift 70 times greater than the drag. Even a 747 is something like 20-25