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#101 Powersteer

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:12

Think vibration would be a problem.

:cool:

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#102 Moon Tricky

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:08

Originally posted by Powersteer
Think vibration would be a problem.

:cool:


It could be balanced quite simply with counterweights.

#103 Greg Locock

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:31

Aye, I don't think balance is the big problem.

This canadian seal walks into a club...

#104 scooperman

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 13:44

reading about crazy engines gives me crazy ideas too. Hopefully this next bit enters a thumbnail image, let's see...

Posted Image

#105 Moon Tricky

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 15:19

Originally posted by scooperman
reading about crazy engines gives me crazy ideas too. Hopefully this next bit enters a thumbnail image, let's see...


I don't understand what this is supposed to do.

#106 Moon Tricky

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 18:25

I made this a few days back:
http://www.jigsawlou...isc/fanout1.gif

It's essentially two superimposed twin V engines 180 degrees out of phase, so it should be well balanced. Probably better with a camless design though, or that's an awful lot of cams...

#107 scooperman

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 19:14

in post 94, Powersteer said "instead of totally designing a radical new engine why not try do a new con-rod " and that started me wondering.

I keep a pile of used paper off to the side of the desk, just for phone notes and doodling. I was interested in seeing if I could draw some kind of connecting rod that would leave the piston in the neighborhood of top dead center for a longer time than a standard rod. I began by scribbling a few unworkable conrod things, then I envisioned a rod with an internal eccentric, but where the rod center followed a groove on the inside of the crank throws, then I ended up with this one where the eccentric just spins around according to whether the crank is pulling the rod or vice versa. This one did not extend the TDC time for the piston. The other scribbles got thrown away, this one I kept because it looked like it actually could be built and an engine would actually run. Well, maybe a lawnmower engine. Here the idea is that the eccentric will spin when the con rod goes from being dragged around by the crank to being pushed down when the piston begins to drive the crank, then it would spin back when the crank goes back to dragging the con rod around. The result is that after TDC on the power stroke , the piston speeds up, its acceleration gets started without having the piston held back by the crank (or at least until the eccentric rotates around), meanwhile the crank continues its momentum and is around further from TDC before the piston/rod is really pushing hard on the crankpin. The eccentric gets pulled around by the crank after BDC on the exhaust stroke, so that is where the piston slows down. The eccentric is exaggerated in the cartoon, I doubt if it could be made with that much crankpin offset.

#108 Moon Tricky

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 19:18

Originally posted by scooperman
in post 94, Powersteer said "instead of totally designing a radical new engine why not try do a new con-rod " and that started me wondering.

I keep a pile of used paper off to the side of the desk, just for phone notes and doodling. I was interested in seeing if I could draw some kind of connecting rod that would leave the piston in the neighborhood of top dead center for a longer time than a standard rod.


See this thread:
http://forums.autosp...?threadid=91863

#109 Catalina Park

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 08:22

Here is another variation of the rotary, this time it is a diesel. (from Truck & Bus Transportation, March 1971)

Posted Image

#110 malbear

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 12:50

Catalina Park,
I think that the bottom wankle rotor is nothing but a fancy supercharger to provide enough compression pressure for the smaller rotor to work as a compression ignition diesel.
Or does it provide some power output as well?



sixstroke

#111 Moon Tricky

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 14:24

Originally posted by malbear
Catalina Park,
I think that the bottom wankle rotor is nothing but a fancy supercharger to provide enough compression pressure for the smaller rotor to work as a compression ignition diesel.
Or does it provide some power output as well?
sixstroke


The exhaust ought to do work on the large rotor as well as the small one, so it's sort of a turbocharger.

#112 malbear

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 14:49

Moon Tricky,
Are the rotors geared together 1 to 1?

#113 Moon Tricky

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 15:12

Originally posted by malbear
Moon Tricky,
Are the rotors geared together 1 to 1?

I've no idea, but it makes sense to me to do it like that.

I'm just wondering now if a Wankel engine used as a turbocharger would be any use with a standard reciprocating engine. Sealing it wouldn't be so important if it was only air or exhaust going through.

#114 crono33

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:49

an italian outfit is bench running this engine and plans to develop a version for airplanes


http://www.brdsrl.it...straswfavi.html


they claim 120hp at 2500rpm, 1500cc displacement diesel cycle

0.48 weight to power ratio, 58kg of total weight


i have a bet on that this engine will never see prodcution

#115 Feliks

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 23:27

May be this mutation not need a conspiracy theory:
But I have some dilemma with name this engine.
It is a STEAM ENGINE with pivot piston.
It is for TRAIN :) :)
Posted Image
May by name "Stephenson second " ?? :rolleyes: :) :)
Have a big torque...
Andrew :smoking:

#116 Powersteer

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 09:11

From BMR Suzuki's website
Posted Image Posted Image

:cool:

#117 Feliks

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 22:52

Originally posted by Powersteer
From BMR Suzuki's website
...........
:cool:


Interesting, model "TWIN CAM", sorry "TWIN CRANK" :rolleyes: :) :)

Andrew :smoking:

#118 malbear

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 00:52

Powersteer ,

Could you post the URL
I could not find it by googling BMR suzuki
What is the bore and stroke ?
Is it from a big single racer?

looks like it would suit shorter stroke, bore stroke ratios, as too long a stroke will make the cutouts of the bore to accomodate the conrods too deep and expose the rings or even the piston top at BDC
Good perfect ballance and no sidethrust on the positive side but more mass and expense on the negative side.
good find
cheers

#119 Powersteer

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:53

Originally posted by malbear
Is it from a big single racer?

Fell in love? BMR Team . Check out thier single cylinder race cylinder head too, intake from the top.

:cool:

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#120 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 15:33


Drawing on behalf of the bloke that gave you variable camshaft timing by moving the cam belt (or chain)............


Posted Image

#121 Moon Tricky

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:24

Originally posted by Bloggsworth

Drawing on behalf of the bloke that gave you variable camshaft timing by moving the cam belt (or chain)............


Posted Image


I thought of almost exactly this the other week! I rather more keen on electronic control of valve timing at the moment though. i.e. opened and closed by solenoids.

#122 Hans Derbe

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:11

From BMR Suzuki's website
Posted Image



The CAD drawing looks like a model for the 2 cylinder motogp prototype that was developed by BMR some years ago. There was an article about it in a motorcycle magazine with similar models pictured. The engine had an Apfelbeck-style cylinderhead with the intake from above the head. It was claimed that 200hp+ where possible and together with less weight and the eliminated gyroscopic forces of the two crankshafts the bike should have an handling advantage when compared to other concepts. It's a pity that this project wasn't realised.

hans

#123 malbear

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 18:36

Hans Derbe,
All that rode my Ducati Beare 680 said that it was definitely smoother than the standard ducati. could this be due to the counter rotating upper cranks. I know that they are only half speed but there is two , maybe they counteract a high percentage of the main crank gyro forces.
http://www.sixstroke.com/articles.htm

#124 Feliks

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:31

Originally posted by Bloggsworth

Drawing on behalf of the bloke that gave you variable camshaft timing by moving the cam belt (or chain)............

For tees gear too...
It is excellent idea for my engine with piston valve.Are possible change compression ratio, simile Commer engine, or Biceri piston .Hand change compresion ratio too are possible.It is very strong version. :up:

Regards Andrew :wave:

#125 Powersteer

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 15:21

Note that the twin crank by BMR has gears on them but they don't have too because they would interconnect somewhere into the drive. The gearing seems to prevent the piston from needing additional skirts. Clever.

:cool:

#126 Bloggsworth

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 11:49

When he can be bothered, I'll get him to post the design using epicyclic gears.......

#127 Powersteer

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 16:23

Originally posted by Hans Derbe
It's a pity that this project wasn't realised.

If it was a single cylinder, would such a design cancel out the primary vibration of a single?

:cool:

#128 Feliks

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 01:38

Originally posted by Feliks

It is excellent idea for my engine with piston valve.Are possible change compression ratio, simile Commer engine, or Biceri piston .Hand change compresion ratio too are possible.It is very strong version. :up:

Regards Andrew


Posted Image

slide (or rotate excentric) this point and change compression ratio and characteristic open/close

#129 Powersteer

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 06:23

Desmodromic philosophy crank shaft by yours truely :kiss: Looks like an over engineered crank engine although the circular lobes can be reshaped to meet desired piston speed requirements per up and down stroke, like a cam lobe. Also have a singular crank version.

Posted Image

Natural balance is crap though.

:cool:

#130 Stian1979

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 13:32

Annyone seen this befour?

http://www.sinusmotor.com/

Look like a clone off the old Junkers OP engines and the australian crankless. I would not call it crank less, but a radial crank.

#131 Moon Tricky

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 16:03

Originally posted by Stian1979
Annyone seen this befour?

http://www.sinusmotor.com/

Look like a clone off the old Junkers OP engines and the australian crankless. I would not call it crank less, but a radial crank.


It looks very much like a Junkers version of the DynaCam engine, only far more of a waste of space.

#132 Feliks

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 23:35

Originally posted by Moon Tricky


It looks very much like a Junkers version of the DynaCam engine, only far more of a waste of space.


Yes , right .Next mutation :
Posted Image

#133 Feliks

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 01:26

Originally posted by Feliks

For tees gear too...
It is excellent idea for my engine with piston valve.Are possible change compression ratio, simile Commer engine, or Biceri piston .Hand change compression ratio too are possible.It is very strong version. :up:

Regards Andrew :wave:


For hi power system my version this good idea:
Posted Image

#134 Moon Tricky

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 16:34

Originally posted by Feliks


For hi power system my version this good idea:


If you used a planetary gear set instead of a differential it would be even stronger and you could dispense with the timing gear by using a ring gear twice the diameter of the sun gear.

#135 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 07:32

Originally posted by Bloggsworth

Drawing on behalf of the bloke that gave you variable camshaft timing by moving the cam belt (or chain)............


Posted Image



Felix,

Haven't you just done a bad re-draw of the jo-briggs design sent in a while ago - I believe j-b also mentioned that it could also be done using epicyclic gears - August last year IIRC - His original drawings were on Robo-Solid, for which no current translator exists.

#136 Feliks

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Posted 22 June 2007 - 10:10

Originally posted by Bloggsworth


Felix,

Haven't you just done a bad re-draw of the jo-briggs design sent in a while ago - I believe j-b also mentioned that it could also be done using epicyclic gears - August last year IIRC - His original drawings were on Robo-Solid, for which no current translator exists.


No problem,in this VARIO are Solidworks 2004 Personal Edition my Vario file zip.(about 4 mb)

Regards :smoking: :wave:

#137 Feliks

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 22:44

Originally posted by Powersteer
Feliks, instead of totally designing a radical new engine why not try do a new con-rod or valve system or variable something before trying a whole new engine to start.

:cool:


ones ways opened:
Posted Image

Invention of wheel was first ,it is closest our heart. :smoking: :smoking:

Obvious cooled water :wave:


#138 Feliks

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 00:09

All about story pivot piston engine in one place:
http://www.new4strok...al piston1.pdf

Pivot cylinder are made possible extrude big aluminium profile :smoking:

Regards Andrew :wave:

#139 Feliks

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 23:49

Once more photo exhaust window. In hottest place in window,can you see a coal.

Posted Image

Regards Andrew :wave: :smoking:

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#140 Feliks

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 09:40

L-type rings:
Posted Image


Andrew :smoking: :wave:

#141 Feliks

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 21:14

Originally posted by Feliks


Invention of wheel was first ,it is closest our heart. :smoking: :smoking:

Obvious cooled water :wave:


However, it can not such obvious :lol: :lol:

Version for small engine air-cooled:

Posted Image


Andrew :rolleyes:

#142 F1Champion

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 20:19

Just out of curiosity, how close are you to making a working prototype Felix? Or have you already made one?

:)

#143 desmo

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 00:01

I have learned through reliable back channels that constructing a testable working prototype will result in immediate and permanent expulsion from The Secret Order of Wacky Engine Designers. :D

#144 Moon Tricky

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 00:13

Originally posted by desmo
I have learned through reliable back channels that constructing a testable working prototype will result in immediate and permanent expulsion from The Secret Order of Wacky Engine Designers. :D


hahahaha

#145 Feliks

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 14:06

Originally posted by desmo
I have learned through reliable back channels that constructing a testable working prototype will result in immediate and permanent expulsion from The Secret Order of Wacky Engine Designers. :D


I am very sorry !! Really, I did not have I on thought it . :D :D :D :wave:

#146 Feliks

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 22:07

Originally posted by desmo
I have learned through reliable back channels that constructing a testable working prototype will result in immediate and permanent expulsion from The Secret Order of Wacky Engine Designers. :D


I have good council in order to they have no lost for many, from fame Wacky Engine Designers.
All secrets of new constructions must be learned fastly . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Andrew :smoking: :smoking:

#147 Feliks

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:04

Interesting version half- rotate piston seals:
Posted Image

Rotate valve to 350 Celsius : Valve


Are possible inside seals ,hydraulic or air inner tube with little pressure for good work .

Andrew :D :smoking:

#148 Feliks

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 22:16

Originally posted by Feliks


However, it can not such obvious :lol: :lol:

Version for small engine air-cooled:

....

Andrew :rolleyes:



Develop air-cooled half rotate piston :
Two big closed bearings,little different seals:
(3D not enough, two picture for good explain :confused: )

Posted Image

Plus some fin inside "piston" and good air vent :smoking:

Regards Andrew :D

#149 Feliks

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 18:13

Originally posted by Feliks



Develop air-cooled half rotate piston :
Two big closed bearings,little different seals:
(3D not enough, two picture for good explain :confused: )

Plus some fin inside "piston" and good air vent :smoking:

Regards Andrew :D


Posted Image


Or two small bearings ..... :lol: :lol:

Andrew :smoking:

#150 Feliks

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 10:29

Intake window ,height 20 mm , long~~80 mm . S1=16 cm^2
S piston intake (diam. 62mm) are 30 cm^2
In other side of piston are possible made another window.But ,2 X 16 =32 cm^2--There is greatest section than crush intake piston.So, there is needless after opposite part this window executable.

Posted Image