Jump to content


Photo

Greatest drives


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,771 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 17:58

I've been waxing nostalgic, and started to think last night of drivers that performed and excelled at a particular race. It seems like there is a list for greatest driver, best looking car, best all around driver, etc., etc., but (and excuse me if I'm wrong) I don't recall seeing a thread about "Greatest drives". I don't necessarily mean those that resulted in a race win, but those that stood out to you as above par. And for me the few that stood out were those that first came to mind without having to look at all of the reference available:

Pierre Levegh at LeMans 1952, some call it folly, but IMHO a truly remarkable feat, never to be repeated....
Gilles Villeneuve 1981 Spanish GP, sublime car control and no margin for error.....
Jim Clark 1967 Italian GP, IMHO his greatest drive......
Chris Amon 1972 French GP....
Jackie Stewart, 1968 German GP....
Jochen Rindt, 1970 Monaco GP...
Stewart and Rindt, 1969 British GP

Anyone else want to add what they think were the Greatest Drives?

Advertisement

#2 Paul Taylor

Paul Taylor
  • Member

  • 1,093 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 15 December 2004 - 18:03

Originally posted by jj2728
Gilles Villeneuve 1981 Spanish GP, sublime car control and no margin for error.....


Hmmm, I always thought he held up all the cars behind him for most of the race. Seeing as Jarama is so difficult to pass at, it can't be that hard to do! But, if you believe this is the case, then Bernoldi's drive at Monaco where he held up Coulthard for 35 laps was also one of the greatest drives ever.

#3 Keir

Keir
  • Member

  • 5,213 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 December 2004 - 18:20

Stewart at the '69 GBGP better than the '68 'Ring down to driver skill over tire advantage.

Rindt really did nothing special at Monaco other than be there when Jack messed up!
German GP or Zandvoort '70 in the Lotus 72 are more the ticket.

Gilles and Rene at France! Who can forget that one!! Jabouille won BTW!!!

#4 snash

snash
  • Member

  • 1,330 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 15 December 2004 - 18:52

Senna at Suzuka 1988 was pretty cool.

#5 SEdward

SEdward
  • Member

  • 833 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 19:01

1968 Spa 1000 km, Jacky Ickx.

But I would say that, wouldn't I?

Edward

#6 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,771 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:24

Originally posted by Keir

Rindt really did nothing special at Monaco other than be there when Jack messed up!
German GP or Zandvoort '70 in the Lotus 72 are more the ticket.


keir, i have to differ with you on rindt's monaco win. he qualified for the race at 1.25.9 well off stewart's pole time of 1.24. and while he was lacklustre for the first half of the race, he did turn the wick up, shattering the lap record, his fastest laps were right at the end, the last being a 1.23.2, .8 under stewart's pole time. even if he hadn't have won the race i still would put it up there on my list of greatest drives...

#7 Repco von Brabham

Repco von Brabham
  • Member

  • 694 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:41

- Carlos Reutemann, Brazil GP of 1977.
- Carlos Reutemann, Brazil GP of 1978.
- Carlos Reutemann, USA Long Beach GP, 1978.
- Carlos Reutemann, Monaco GP 1980.
- Carlos Reutemann, Brazilian GP 1981.

Somebody have any doubt about that..??

#8 j-ickx-fan

j-ickx-fan
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:47

Le Mans 1977, Jacky Ickx even if I agree with SEdward about Spa 1000 km 1968.

#9 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,771 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:48

Originally posted by Paul Taylor


Hmmm, I always thought he held up all the cars behind him for most of the race. Seeing as Jarama is so difficult to pass at, it can't be that hard to do! But, if you believe this is the case, then Bernoldi's drive at Monaco where he held up Coulthard for 35 laps was also one of the greatest drives ever.


paul, i listed villeneuve's win at spain as i witnessed both it and his monaco gp win. the ferrari was a truck, i think gilles himself was quoted as saying it was a s***box. pironi was nowhere near him in the same car. IMHO the true measure of his great driving skills was put on display that day in spain.

#10 dolomite

dolomite
  • Member

  • 947 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:53

Originally posted by Repco von Brabham
- Carlos Reutemann, Brazil GP of 1977.
- Carlos Reutemann, Brazil GP of 1978.
- Carlos Reutemann, USA Long Beach GP, 1978.
- Carlos Reutemann, Monaco GP 1980.
- Carlos Reutemann, Brazilian GP 1981.

Somebody have any doubt about that..??


How about Brands Hatch 1978?

#11 swintex

swintex
  • Member

  • 361 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:54

Pedro Rodriguez, BOAC 1000, Brands Hatch, 12 April 1970

#12 Repco von Brabham

Repco von Brabham
  • Member

  • 694 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:59

Originally posted by dolomite


How about Brands Hatch 1978?


YES Dolomite..., You are rigth so much..!

Brands Hatch 1978.., GREAT RACE, Chapeau Carlos!

#13 Arturo Pereira

Arturo Pereira
  • Member

  • 842 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 15 December 2004 - 20:59

Nurburgring, 1957 German GP by Fangio :)

#14 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,648 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 21:01

Swintex stole my thunder!!!!! :mad:

I was about to nominate the great Mexican Pete when someone beat me to it!

I have to say that it is the only time I can every remember a driver being BLACK FLAGGED, stopping to be lectured in the pit lane, then hammering back into the race and going onto to win.

:cool:

#15 Dries Feenema

Dries Feenema
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 21:15

I'll list some recent drives:

Prost - France 1988
Mansell - Hungary 1989
Piquet - Hungary 1986
Schumy - Luxembourg 1995
Mika - Spa 2000
Barrichello - Germany 2000
Damon Hill - Japan 1994
Jacques Villeneuve - Portugal 1996
Senna - Portugal 1985, Spain 1986, Monaco 1987, Japan 1988, Japan 1989, USA 1990, Brazil 1991, Monaco 1992, Brazil 1993, Europe 1993 (For me, the best one) and Japan 1993.

#16 jarama

jarama
  • Member

  • 1,129 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 15 December 2004 - 21:15

A few more:

- Stewart @ Monza '73
- Moss @ Monaco '61
- Moss @ the '55 Mille Miglia


Carles.

#17 swintex

swintex
  • Member

  • 361 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 21:26

Yes Stephen, I know it was 1,000km, but 5 laps is quite a margin isn't it? :D

#18 Mike Lawrence

Mike Lawrence
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 21:45

Sorry guys, there is only one candidate for this nominatio and it is Moss, Argentine GP, 1958. He is in a privately-entered Cooper giving away 540cc in engine size. He and rob Walker bamboozle Ferrari into thinking he has to stop for tyres, new wheels are displayed in the pitlane and since the Cooper has bolt-on wheels, this means at least a two minute stop, there being only two mechanics on the car. Ferrari relaxes, confident that he has to stop, but he does not stop. In his last laps he has to drive on the oily patches to save his tyres. He wins with the rear tyres woen through three, of the five, layers of canvas under the rubber.

After the race, Rob Walker demonstrates how close Moss was to the absulute limit by holding one of the rear wheels and an poking his finger through the canvas.

It is the first World Championship win for Cooper, for Coventry Climax and for a mid-engined car. It began the MID-engine Revolution in Formula One (VW Beetles had rear engines, Stirling's Cooper was mid-engined).

Tell me of any other win achieved with such audacity, cunning and bravery which also changed the face of motor racing.

You can argue all you like about this drive or that, after the problem, the pit stop. the heavy rain and the other elements which tend to feature, but no other single drive changed history at a fundamental level.

#19 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 36,642 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 15 December 2004 - 21:58

Nuvolari. Nurburgring. Alfa.

Did not change the face of motor racing for ever, but did Tazio have any right to win that race?

Boillot at the French GP when he nearly beat the Mercedes team must have been one heck of a drive.

But for sheer heroism what could beat 48 hours straight on a car with a very high centre of gravity, dirt roads, no steering wheel, going beyond what Man had ever achieved before and starting something that has not yet finished? Step forward M Levassor.

Would it be heretical to say that Rindt at Monaco could not be a great drive because he spent half the race asleep? A great half-drive...

And would it also be heretical to say that Fangio's comeback at Germany 1957 was statistically no greater (even if substantively greater) than Mansell catching up a similar time at Britain in 1987 in a shorter distance? I know it was the Ring & all, but Collins and Hawthorn were basically tooling around in inferior cars, whilst Mansell was after a fired-up team-mate that could not stand him. The element of much more prevalent danger gives JMF the edge, and of course he was nearly 50, but whenever Fangio's drive is mentioned I think it a little unfair that Mansell's similar drive gets overlooked. -iconoclast14

Advertisement

#20 harryglorydays

harryglorydays
  • Member

  • 81 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 15 December 2004 - 23:44

Mario Andretti at Sebring 1970. He got in the second-place Ferrari 512 and "drove like a man posessed" to win by 23 seconds over the Revson/McQueen Porsche 908.

#21 dbltop

dbltop
  • Member

  • 1,510 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 16 December 2004 - 00:02

I would vote for Gilles' drive at Montreal in 81. Third place in an ill-handling car in the pouring rain. He drove for a while with his front wing bent upward obscuring his vision. The wing eventually came off, meaning no front downforce at all.

#22 Twin Window

Twin Window
  • Nostalgia Host

  • 6,609 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 16 December 2004 - 00:14

Beltoise in Monaco, 1972.

But for performances in more recent times, surely you'd have to include Or Noige's performances at Brands in 1986 and Silverstone a year later, I'd say. Different races both, but he was truly outstanding.

And even more recently, Senna at Donington; that was 'fairly' impressive too! And, as mentioned already, I thought D Hill was fantastic in the 1994 Japanese GP.

#23 JtP

JtP
  • Member

  • 358 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 16 December 2004 - 00:26

Originally posted by dolomite


How about Brands Hatch 1978?


With assistance from Giacomelli and broken down Loti.

#24 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,728 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 16 December 2004 - 00:51

Graham Hill, Monaco 1965. Recovered to win by nearly a minute from Bandini after having to push the car backwards up the escape lane at the harbour chicane and set a fastest lap almost a second quicker than his pole time!

#25 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,771 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 16 December 2004 - 01:06

Originally posted by Twin Window
Beltoise in Monaco, 1972.


absolutely....a masterfull drive under truly appalling conditions. JPB was touched by the racing gods on that day...

#26 Muzza

Muzza
  • Member

  • 799 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 16 December 2004 - 02:05

OK, I will just mention one - J. J. Lehto, 1995 Le Mans.

#27 Statesidefan

Statesidefan
  • Member

  • 364 posts
  • Joined: July 99

Posted 16 December 2004 - 02:50

And would it also be heretical to say that Fangio's comeback at Germany 1957 was statistically no greater (even if substantively greater) than Mansell catching up a similar time at Britain in 1987 in a shorter distance? I know it was the Ring & all, but Collins and Hawthorn were basically tooling around in inferior cars, whilst Mansell was after a fired-up team-mate that could not stand him. The element of much more prevalent danger gives JMF the edge, and of course he was nearly 50, but whenever Fangio's drive is mentioned I think it a little unfair that Mansell's similar drive gets overlooked. -iconoclast14




Spot on!!!! I'll never forget that stunning drive. I fell in love with Mansell that day. Just so much heart and grit. I really disliked Piquet so it was all the more sweet that day. The reaction of the British fans was just awesome. I recall my roomate and I just jumping up and down yelling at the TV. Not many reactions like that the last 10 years or so... :(

#28 911

911
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 16 December 2004 - 02:56

Many of my favorite drives have already been mentioned, but I would like to add another. I'm not a big fan of Damon Hill, but I thought his drive at the Hungaroring in 1997 was absolutely brilliant, even if he didn't win it.

#29 Gary Davies

Gary Davies
  • Member

  • 1,888 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 16 December 2004 - 05:36

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Sorry guys, there is only one candidate for this nominatio and it is Moss, Argentine GP, 1958 ...etc


This is going to get into semantics, so I apologise in advance. I've never thought of Argentina 1958 as 'greatest drive' material. Here's where the semantics kicks in; I've always seen that win as a consummate triumph of driving, team strategy and audacity. I'm currently at work, away from my Moss and Moss related books so this is dangerous, but did not the Golden Boy always put Monaco at the top of his list.

Which raises the issue of how to define Greatest Drive. Somehow, it has to be, in my mind, one in which it was balls out for a very large proportion of the race. Perhaps SCM would characterise Argentina 1958 as that but I fancy that Monaco 61, Mille Miglia 55 and, come to that, his part of the win in the DBR1/1 in the 1959 Nurburgring 1000 Kms race more nearly meet my criterion.

My definition rules out, incidentally, Rindt at Monaco in 1970. I agree with Keir and so did D.S.J. Rindt just tooled around initially - debits on the opposite side of the ledger from ballsoutness.

Hard to find any fault with Hill's Monaco drive in 1965 in the ballsout department and Jim Clark's 1967 Italian GP was just stunning.

Has anyone mentioned Senna at Estoril in the rain in 1985? Altogether in a different league from the over-hyped Donington race.

And Mansell. I've long been a big fan of his driving. Note the word driving! Silverstone 1987 just has to go down as a truly fabulous drive. And in the moment that he jinked, dodged and blew by Johnny Foreign, I don't think I'd felt more British since the first time I saw The Dam Busters.;)

#30 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 4,733 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:48

Originally posted by dbltop
I would vote for Gilles' drive at Montreal in 81. Third place in an ill-handling car in the pouring rain. He drove for a while with his front wing bent upward obscuring his vision. The wing eventually came off, meaning no front downforce at all.



I still find it difficult to decide on if this was one of his best races ever or a rediculous, dangerous act of driving which could have lead to disaster if something had gone wrong. Nothing went wrong so...
But I agree, racing a first generation turbo F1 (also the worst chassis of the season) in pooring rain on a track like that, incredible drive.

Schumacher at Barcelona '96 was another outstanding drive if it comes to praising rain races, as was Beltoise at Monaco '72.



Henri Greuter

#31 Mike Lawrence

Mike Lawrence
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:56

Fangio at the Nurburgring in 1957 is so often is so ften quoted as the greatest drive ever, but few things that get overlooked. One is the length of time it took for Hawthorn and Collins to realise JMF was on a charge. They passed him in the pits, so when they came around again, he he had not completed a lap. When they came round a second time he had done one lap from a flying start. They had to come round a third time before he had shown what a charge he was on and with lap times of more than nine minutes, it was nearly half an hour before they knew he was back fighting.

I know he kept breaking the lap record, but half the field was lapping under the previous lap record because much of the circuit had been resurfaced. Look at the practice times. In 1957, Fangio took 12.5 seconds off the lap record on near empty tanks. Moss did the same on lap three at the Nurburgring the following year, with a full load.

Amidst all the hype, one point is lost. Fangio began the race on half tanks and stopped for fresh fuel and new rear tyres. Was this the first time that a driver used a fuel/tyre stop stop as a strategy in a Grand Prix? Up to the end of 1951 cars had to stop for fuel and tyres from necessity. From 1952 a car could generally last the whole race on the fuel and tyres with which it started, apart from the odd puncture or 'splash and dash' (Moss, Monza, 1956, Moss, Aintree, 1957).

I think Fangio may have been the first to use fuel and tyres as a strategy. It was a poor tyre stop so he came out 45 seconds behind Hawthorn and Collins, but he did have 150 miles in which to make up those 45 seconds and there have been any number of drivers who have done that, look at Prost in the 1987 Japanese GP, an amazing drive even though it only brought him seventh place.

The flaw in Fangio's strategy was that mechanics were not used to doing really quick tyre stops. They hadn't done done tyre stops in Grand Prix racing for years and even then they were relatively leisurely because of the time it took for the churns of fuel to be poured into a funnel. The same was true of sports car racing, tyre changing was rarely an ugent activity because the lenth of a pit stop tended to be dictated by by the time it took the fuel to go in.

Fangio's strategy required a quick stop, but the mechanics had problems. otherwise we'd all now be marvelling at his clever thinking, rather than his charge back to the front.

I don't think that making up 45 seconds over 150 miles is exceptional. Unless I have missed a previous occasion, I think we have to give Fangio credit for a different reason - he was the first to employ the strategic tyre/fuel stop and it took Gordon Murray 25 years to latch on.

#32 Pedro 917

Pedro 917
  • Member

  • 1,767 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 16 December 2004 - 08:33

Originally posted by Swintex :

Yes Stephen, I know it was 1,000km, but 5 laps is quite a margin isn't it?

Make that six laps as Pedro was one complete lap down on the whole field when he stormed out the pitlane again after the lecture. He also drove over 5 hours leaving just an hour to Kinnunen.

#33 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 16 December 2004 - 09:21

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Was this the first time that a driver used a fuel/tyre stop stop as a strategy in a Grand Prix?

OTTOMY I can think of two earlier examples, both involving the Maserati team - Gonzalez in the 1953 Italian GP, and Schell in the 1954 Spanish. On both those ocasions however, I think the idea was for a junior team-member to upset the opposition, rather than to improve chances of victory for the drivers concerned

#34 chofar

chofar
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 16 December 2004 - 09:59

After a quick search, a forgotten drive on TNF which gave birth to a so-called "blue saga": Pescarolo's drive at Le Mans 1968 with the Matra 630. No wipers at night with heavy rain, his team-mate (Servoz) not really keen on the challenge and our man brings the V12 car to second place. Just to fail for tyre failure. There was even a model made by Le Mans Miniature of the car with a small Pasca sitting on it with the head in his hands.

#35 Pedro 917

Pedro 917
  • Member

  • 1,767 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:30

Originally posted by chofar

Pesca sitting on it with the head in his hands.


Really?

#36 chofar

chofar
  • Member

  • 83 posts
  • Joined: November 03

Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:45

:rotfl: Sorry Pedro : could it be "with his head in his hands" ??
In French "La tĂȘte dans les mains" which means he looked very upset and sad.

Edit : After seeing a picture of the model, I have to sy I was wrong : Pesca is only sitting on the boarder of the cockpit with doors open, but he still looks very upset and sad... even at 1/24th scale.

#37 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,648 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:31

I am sorry TwinWindow but Jean-Pierre Beltoise winning Monaco in 1972 can NEVER be considered a great drive.

I was there and the lead he had after the first lap was incredible. :rolleyes:

The reason for his huge lead was simple. The starter, that doyen of French drivers Louis Chiron, had the habit of standing on the track in front of the waiting pack. He would raise the flag and then trot off to the right hand side of the track. It was while he moved infront of the pole sitter that he would drop the flag to start the race! However when the flag was still raised and Chiron was in front of the Polesitter JPB, who was on the second row, was actually level with the front row of the grid and had the hammer down! :mad:

The rest of the field then struggled off in the wake of the BRM. JPB also had the massive advantage at Monaco of a clear track for some ten laps whilst the rest struggled in the huge clouds of spray.

He certainly wasn't in touch with the racing Gods as JJ2728 suggests, just with the French Stewards who turned a Nelsonian eye to this blatant jumped start. :rotfl:

#38 marty8405

marty8405
  • Member

  • 61 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:55

There was a great article in Road and Track in 1982, I don't remember the month, about Emerson Fittipaldi's greatest drive. He wrote that the Brazilian GP of 1978 where he finished 2nd was his greatest drive at that point. He had a front tire out of balance that wore down to the cords by the end of the race, and it was very hot and he lost his drink tube at the beginning of the race. Its the best result he achieved in one of his own cars and its a wonderfully told story. I hope someone else remembers it or read it. I'll try to find the month and update my post.

#39 Duane

Duane
  • Member

  • 271 posts
  • Joined: May 99

Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:57

Not to minimize the 87 British Grand Prix, but wasn't Mansell on fresh rubber while Piquet's tires were pretty much spent? I recall that the advantage of fresh tires somewhat enhanced the speed differential between the two Williams drivers toward the end of the race. No matter what however, Mansell always seem able to turn it up a notch when performing in front of the home crowd.

For best drives, for now I nominate a similar scenario that occured in Holland in 85, when Lauda pitted early for tires and held off Prost for the win. The last few laps were quite exciting, with Prost ducking and diving trying to get by, and Lauda just holding the line and leaving as little room for a pass as possible. I would also nominate Lauda's drive in Australia that year, his very last race. He made the others look somewhat amateur as they destroyed their tires while Lauda strode forward to the front, only for brake trouble to intervene.

Advertisement

#40 panzani

panzani
  • Member

  • 18,436 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 16 December 2004 - 13:14

Almost all of my favourites' drives had already been listed except for Monaco 1984 -- where Stefan Bellof's ride from last to third is somewhat forgotten due to the controversial and premature end of the race -- the start of the Senna-Prost feud. I would dare to say Bellof would lead Senna at the finish - it was his better drive.

#41 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 7,995 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 16 December 2004 - 17:09

Originally posted by David McKinney

OTTOMY I can think of two earlier examples, both involving the Maserati team - Gonzalez in the 1953 Italian GP, and Schell in the 1954 Spanish. On both those ocasions however, I think the idea was for a junior team-member to upset the opposition, rather than to improve chances of victory for the drivers concerned

Didn't Gonzalez make a tactical stop at Reims in 1953 as well? Was he No 2 to Fangio, or equal No 1 in 1953, having been de facto No 1 in 1952?

#42 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 5,989 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 16 December 2004 - 23:44

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Fangio at the Nurburgring in 1957 is so often is so ften quoted as the greatest drive ever, but few things that get overlooked. One is the length of time it took for Hawthorn and Collins to realise JMF was on a charge. They passed him in the pits, so when they came around again, he he had not completed a lap. When they came round a second time he had done one lap from a flying start. They had to come round a third time before he had shown what a charge he was on and with lap times of more than nine minutes, it was nearly half an hour before they knew he was back fighting.

I know he kept breaking the lap record, but half the field was lapping under the previous lap record because much of the circuit had been resurfaced. Look at the practice times. In 1957, Fangio took 12.5 seconds off the lap record on near empty tanks. Moss did the same on lap three at the Nurburgring the following year, with a full load.

I thought it was common to signal to drivers as they passed the back of the pits after the Sudkerve. Would that heve given the Ferrari drivers an ealy indication of Fangio's pace? According to DSJ, Fangio did not gain much on the first three laps after his stop. Whether this had any effect on his rivals' perception of the threat, I don't know. The real merit of Fangio's drive lies in his sustained pace. The gereral feeling at the time, including Hawthorn and collins, seems to have been that nothing could have stopped him in that mood.

Moss's pace ealry in the 1958 race was fantastic but we should remember that there had been further resurfacing and easing of corners since 1957.

On the subject of this thread, I find it hard to think of many races by Moss in the last three years of his career which are not contenders. And yet there are some great drivers whose name is never mentioned. Where, for example, is Alberto Ascari's contribution?

#43 Statesidefan

Statesidefan
  • Member

  • 364 posts
  • Joined: July 99

Posted 17 December 2004 - 00:30

Not to minimize the 87 British Grand Prix, but wasn't Mansell on fresh rubber while Piquet's tires were pretty much spent? I recall that the advantage of fresh tires somewhat enhanced the speed differential between the two Williams drivers toward the end of the race. No matter what however, Mansell always seem able to turn it up a notch when performing in front of the home crowd




If I recall Mansell's tires had only about half race distance on them. He did run out of fuel however on the cooldown lap. One race I haven't seen mentioned is the 1995 European GP. Schumacher ran down poor Alesi and overtook him near the end with a very bold move. The details are fuzzy as I didn't see it live, but I recall it being one of those Mansell like charges. Schu just doen't do it fo me like Nige though.