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Tracing a DTM car...


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#1 2F-001

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 09:52

A friend is acquiring (or maybe has by now) an ex- DTM series BMW M3 (E30l) and is interested in tracing its life. Other than contacting the documented first owners (Zakspeed, I understand) could anyone suggest on-line or other sources as a starting point. Does anyone here have a particular interest in the minutiae of such cars? I'm told it was in DTM in '89 and/or '90 and chassis number, early drivers and a vague sketch of its subsequent career are known, but that is all.

( I've struggled with a search, 'cos DTM, BMW, M3 and E30 are all unrecognized as searchable words - and needed a min of 3 is no help either! - or am I doing something wrong! )

I have all Autosports etc for short race reports but does anyone have enough detail recorded to match a particular car to any published race accounts? I will enocourage new owner to browse TNF anyway as I think there is much here to interest him.

Thanks!

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#2 ianbeckett21

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 15:21

Dear Tony p, I have been following the E30 M3 since its first race in 1987 and have gathered all kinds of information about the cars. One of the major problems in establishing the provenance of cars which were produced in relatively large numbers is that they are easily reworked, modified as they change owners and sadly are often sold as something they are not and never have been! A good friend of mine who lives in germany and who drives an immaculate one owner road M3 jokes about the number of race versions which are supposedly ex-Ravaglia/Cecotto/Winkelhock! It is obvious that having been driven by one of these guys will increase the value and it is very difficult to establish what is a genuine car belonging to a particular team. With say an F1 car only a handful at the most will be produced in any season but a car like the M3 was produced in large numbers. BMW Motorsport produced race ready shells for anyone with the required cash. There were versions in Group A and N, many were built by Prodrive and sold to the four corners of the world including one allegedly which went to a Nigerian Prince! Even today in France there are approximately 40 still running competitively in national rallies and hillclimbs. I have never actually worked out a total number built but remembering that many were no doubt built around road cars ans some race cars were rebuilt as road versions, you can see some of the difficuties involved. If you can find some more details of the car your friend intends buying, it would be a halp but in the meantime I will go through my files to see if I can give some more positive help.

#3 2F-001

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 20:42

Thank you, Ian - I appreciate the problem... for eg, the car is thought never to have been a road car -- but as you say, how does one know if it is what it appears to be?!

I believe my friend is happy to have the car regardless of its specific history (he wants to drive it, rather than polish and store it!) but it seems to have been through a number of specs during its life and he's more concerned with not spoiling it further if it has some interesting background and wants to make appropriate restorations. (Or if it hasn't, then a little less regard for originality might be excused and spend the money on making it go faster!). He's heard no claims to it being an ex-Ravaglia car or anything so exalted, but at least one relatively big name.

I'm not trying to be awkwardly vague - it's just that I haven't told him I've posted this yet! I ask him to look in and hopefully you or others may be able to help him or point in him the right direction at least -- for example, finding what the differences in spec would typically be between, Group A, N and DTM so that it's changes and varied career might be plotted.

Thanks again!

#4 ianbeckett21

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 20:51

To Tony P, the whisky is starting to take hold, I will try to go through my files in the morning and will then get back to you!

#5 2F-001

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 21:21

Oh, and welcome to TNF, Ian! I've just noticed that you are recent convert.

#6 ianbeckett21

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Posted 18 December 2004 - 13:25

Tony, as promised, here are my findings an the E30 M3's of the Zakspeed team......in 1987 they ran two cars in the DTM for no 1 Marc Hessel, this car was sold at the end of the season to Team Noji in Japan, and no 2 for Eric van der Poele whose car was sold to Swede Lennart Bohlin. In 1988, they ran cars for no 1 Frank Schmickler, no 2 Markus Oestreich, no 3 Annette Meeuvissen [who sadly died a few days ago of cancer] and at the Hockenheim finale no 68 Eric van der Poele. Schmickler wrote off a car at the Avus race early in the season. One car was sold to Tauber Motorsport and continued to race with them in the DTM. A second car was sold to Swede Peggen Andersson. For 1989, they raced three cars for no 36 Steve Soper[chassis number 11090] this was sold to Swede Ornulf Wirdheim, the second was driven by no37 Kris Nissen and the third[chassis number11040] was for Dieter Quester. At Hockenheim, Nissen and Quester collided head on with both cars being badly damaged su much so that Quester could not take part in the last three rounds. In 1990,Zakspeed ran a three car team fo no18 Dieter Quester,no19 Armin Hahne and no 20 Annette Meeuvissen. The team then switched to Mercedes for 1991 and in Autosport May 1991 the team had two cars for sale but I do not know where they went. Zakspeeds cars were always the traditional BMW colours of white with diagonal stripes of red/two-tone blue and they always had white interiors whereas Schnitzers were always red inside and Linder the other official team, were always blue. Recently as a footnote, Peggen Andersson had a car for cale descrobed as ex-Zakspeed in the original colours but fitted with a 2-litre engine and wider wheels and arches than usual.....could it be the car he bought back in 1988? I hope some of this may be helpful, all the best Ian.