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Cooper T77 - who, when & where?


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#1 teegeefla

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 18:59

I found this photo at

http://www.thegaffer.../autos/1275.php

that looks like Dan Gurney, but I cannot find any record of him in a Cooper. Any ideas? Thanks.

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 19:05

Perhaps you'd better get your eyes tested! That's Jochen Rindt!!

#3 Doug Nye

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 19:07

Jochen Rindt at Silverstone, 1965...

DCN

#4 Stephen W

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 19:07

Correct! Jochen Rindt and I would surmise it is the 1965 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. This is based on his name on the side of the car which seemed to only happen at Silverstone! :cool:

#5 teegeefla

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 19:33

after a closer look, is it Jochen Rindt?

#6 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 19:36

Don't think a closer look is required, definitely Rindt!

#7 Twin Window

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 20:13

Originally posted by Stephen W

This is based on his name on the side of the car which seemed to only happen at Silverstone! :cool:

When the British GP was held at Silverstone, the names were blue on white, however when the race was held at Brands Hatch they were black on white.

For the South African GP the names were white letters on a red background, and for Watkins Glen they were black on white.

The last British GP when the supplied names were provided by the organisers was 1972, and I think that's also true for South Africa and the USA.

Incidentally, that shot shows Rindt's green helmet to good effect - unlike most pics!

#8 Mac Lark

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 20:55

In any event, I can recall Big Dan having a white stripe but never a white peak.

#9 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 21:22

Originally posted by teegeefla
after a closer look, is it Jochen Rindt?

wearing his "before Barcelona nose"

#10 Richard Neale

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 21:27

And as far as I can recall Big Dan never drove a T77 !

#11 Udo K.

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 21:44

Of course, its Rindt, nobody else.

#12 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 21:57

Udo, homeless too ? :lol:

#13 jpm2

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 22:00

Originally posted by Mac Lark
In any event, I can recall Big Dan having a white stripe but never a white peak.


Dan Gurney wore a white peak at Zandvoort 1963, and maybe elsewhere

Regards

#14 JtP

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 22:03

Originally posted by Stephen W
Correct! Jochen Rindt and I would surmise it is the 1965 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. This is based on his name on the side of the car which seemed to only happen at Silverstone! :cool:


So what name did Gurney have on the side of his car?

#15 Hugo Boecker

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 22:19

Originally posted by Stephen W
Correct! Jochen Rindt and I would surmise it is the 1965 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. This is based on his name on the side of the car which seemed to only happen at Silverstone! :cool:


.... and Monza, Nürburgring

#16 Roger Clark

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 00:13

Originally posted by JtP


So what name did Gurney have on the side of his car?

I don't know.

#17 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 00:19

At Reims it would have been 'GUNREY'...

Incidentally, I would just like to mention in this Cooper thread that Paula Cooper - widow of John Cooper - passed away recently. During the Cooper Car Co's racing days this glamorous lady had been a considerable background presence in the life of the little company...a nice lady...

DCN

#18 Mac Lark

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 01:26

Originally posted by jpm2


Dan Gurney wore a white peak at Zandvoort 1963, and maybe elsewhere

Regards


Thanks - never knew that.

#19 Roger Clark

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:30

Originally posted by Doug Nye
At Reims it would have been 'GUNREY'...

Or Barbham?

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#20 Pedro 917

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:18

And I have a picture of Pedro's BRM during the Tasman 68 series that has Rodriguez on one side and Rodrigues on the other!

Twinny, at the 1970 British GP at Brands Hatch, "Rodriguez" was in blue on the side of the BRM cockpit.

#21 Macca

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:33

This is a picture that intrigues me - is it really the ATS-powered car by Alf Francis for Baumer (sp?) that Silvio Moser later drove?

http://www.thegaffer.../autos/1277.php



Paul M

#22 Richard Neale

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:37

I don't know that one, but with the Colotti Francis gearbox it probably didn't go far?

#23 Stephen W

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:41

Despite being a diferent paint scheme it certainly looks like the same car.

The car was entered at Silverstone by CHARLES VOGELE. :cool:

#24 Twin Window

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:56

Originally posted by Pedro 917

Twinny, at the 1970 British GP at Brands Hatch, "Rodriguez" was in blue on the side of the BRM cockpit.

Yes, Luc - they were blue on white in 1970! Seems that I've outbraked myself on that one. Maybe the black on white was unique to 1972...

Similar to Doug's mention of 'Gunrey' for that '72 GP at Brands, Arturo Merzario's 312B2 was supplied with 'R. MERZARIO' which the mechanics modified with tape!

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#25 DOHC

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 12:36

Originally posted by teegeefla
I found this photo at

http://www.thegaffer.../autos/1275.php

that looks like Dan Gurney, but I cannot find any record of him in a Cooper. Any ideas? Thanks.


You gotta love the specification of 2.0000 valves per cylinder. :rotfl:

Anyway, that's as much Jochen Rindt as it gets.

#26 Macca

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 12:41

http://www.intothere...ilverstone.html

says it was built by Alf Francis in 1966 for Swiss garage owner Fritz Baumann; it appeared at Rheims in practise driven by Bonnier (whose Cooper-Maserati was not yet repaired after Spa) but he raced the spare works Brabham-Climax instead.

When it appeared entered by Charles Vogele for Silvio Moser at the 1967 British GP, it was white with a red stripe (and bright yellow exhausts!) and had a different or cut-off nose with a larger opening. I wonder what the configuration and colours were at Rheims.

But I don't think it was the chassis built for the Climax flat-16, as that was used for testing the Maserati V12 in early 1966 (and was lent to Rob Walker for the International Trophy for Siffert), and the nosecone in the photo on the A-Z website looks a like a normal T77.


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#27 JtP

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 02:15

Originally posted by JtP


So what name did Gurney have on the side of his car?


Well I never, all these knowlegable people and no answer. Gurney drove Brabham's Brabham in the 65 British GP complete with name label and number after Gurney's own car blew up on the grid. The Climax broke an inlet valve and the broken bit came out the inlet trumpet, hit the mesh debris screen and dropped down another inlet trumpet.

#28 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 08:41

Originally posted by JtP


Well I never, all these knowlegable people and no answer. Gurney drove Brabham's Brabham in the 65 British GP complete with name label and number after Gurney's own car blew up on the grid. The Climax broke an inlet valve and the broken bit came out the inlet trumpet, hit the mesh debris screen and dropped down another inlet trumpet.

In my defence, that's what I was trying to hint in post #19.

#29 Stephen W

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 15:44

Stumbled accross a further link in the Cooper-ATS chain.

The car found its way to Gildo Guidi who used it in the 1968 European Hillclimb Championship. :cool:

I don't know what happened to it after '68 - the details may still turn up! :confused:

#30 T54

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 17:00

All I can say is that the high-speed terminal understeer described by T77's drivers at the time can be firmly traced to aerodynamic lift with that nose pointing in the air... reminds me of the smoking theory of Larry Shinoda applied to the Chaparral 1, then the first version of the Chaparral 2, with the underwing profile theory and nose up in the stratosphere. In principle it sounds good and works quite well with sealing skirts as side pods, but the profile is critical to negate possible opposite effects. Luckily, Jim Hall analyzed the problem quite rapidly and blocked the upright nose with a huge snow-plow of a spoiler, making him think in a very different manner for obtaining down force. John Cooper would have been better off to follow suit, but in 1964, aerodynamic thinking at Cooper was still pretty simplistic.

T54 :drunk:

#31 Dave Wright

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 18:44

Originally posted by T54
All I can say is that the high-speed terminal understeer described by T77's drivers at the time can be firmly traced to aerodynamic lift with that nose pointing in the air...


Interesting comment. DCN says the T83 had a similar aerodynamic problem. Still, the T77, and the near identical T73 went reasonably well at Spa and Monza.

#32 Richard Neale

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:20

The biggest factor in the aero lift problem at Cooper's was not the nose, but the change to a flat bottom from T81 onwards. The previous curved bottom allowed the air to escape effectively, but the flat bottom created downforce at the rear, which caused a weight transfer and took weight off the front end.