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Ligier: was recruitment of French drivers a good idea?


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#1 bigears

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 23:07

I was browsing around Forix and looked up at Ligier's list of F1 drivers. I noticed that the majority of drivers are French. I think Guy Ligier got his own policy or to satisfy his French sponsors by recruiting a French driver. I looked in the list and finally found a non-French driver in 1982! (Ligier was formed in 1976 if you are not sure)

The list of drivers that drove for Ligier:

1976: Jacques Latiffe,
1977: Jacques Latiffe and Jean Pierre Jarier, (1 win)
1978: Latiffe,
1979: Latiffe, Patrick Depailler and Jacy Ickx, (3 wins)
1980: Latiffe and Didier Pironi, (2 wins)
1981: Latiffe and Jean Pierre Jabouille, Jarier and Patrick Tambay, (2 wins)
1982: Latiffe and Eddie Cheever (USA),
1983: Jarier and Raul Boesel (Brazil)
1984: Andrea de Cesaris (Italy) and Francois Henault,
1985: Latiffe, de Cesaris and Phillipe Streiff,
1986: Latiffe, Rene Arnoux and Phillipe Alliot,
1987: Arnoux and Piercarlo Ghinzani (Italy)
1988: Arnoux and Stefan Johansson (Sweden)
1989: Arnoux and Olivier Grouillard,
1990: Nicola Larini and Alliot
1991: Thierry Bousten (Belgium) and Eric Comas,
1992: Bousten and Comas,
1993: Mark Blundell and Martin Brundle (both UK)
1994: Olivier Panis, Eric Bernard, Johnny Herbert (UK) and Franck Lagorce,
1995: Panis, Agrui Suzuki (Japan) and Brundle,
1996: Panis and Pedro Diniz (Brazil) (1 win)

I noticed that there are a lot of French drivers there, obviously there is a lot of good and better drivers (in exception of the 1979-1981 seasons which they did very well with good results and wins)

If Guy Ligier (or whoever was in charge at the time) recruited a non-French driver, surely they could get more success than their French drivers they brought into the Ligier F1 team?

What are your opinions about this?

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#2 inigo

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 23:27

I don't think that Ligier was regarded as a top team in the years where there drivers were of medium quality. So it wasn't easy to much improve upon the drivers choice.
The did well with Laffite, Depailler and Arnoux. They could have been chosen for their quality alone, not only nationality.
Jacky Ickx is from Belgium, so the 1st year is 1979!

#3 T54

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 00:05

1976: Jacques Latiffe



Who is, "Jacques Latiffe"? :cat:

#4 Zawed

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 00:16

Originally posted by bigears
1993: Mark Blundell and Martin Brundle (both UK)


Was'nt that lineup a huge novelty for Ligier- from never having a British driver in the squad to having two at the same time!

#5 chofar

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:19

Jacques Latiffe is the cousin of Agrui Suzuki and Thierry Bousten's uncle.
Not to mention EriK Comas...

Latiffe should have made shampoo's advertisement (French readers only...)

#6 BRG

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 10:38

Far be it from me to accuse the French of chauvinism... ;)

To be fair, you would have to go some way to find better drivers than Lafitte, Depailler, Jabouille, Tambay, Pironi or Arnoux at that time. So with a plentiful supply (which has now almost completely dried up for some reason) of quality French drivers, why should a French team with French sponsors (Gitanes, Elf) have wanted to look any further afield? Later on, when that wave of good French drivers started to wane, Ligier did look elsewherer, whilst still supporting a variety of new young French drivers. Most of those had reasonable credentials that should have warranted a F1 chance.

Interestingly, one French name not on the list (although later of course having a disastrous association with the team) is Prost. I suppose they could not afford him once he hit his stride.

#7 j-ickx-fan

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:22

I think Prost was under contract with Phillip Morris when he entered the Formula One. No idea how long were the contracts with tobacco sponsors but this could have been a good reason.

#8 angst

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:28

Originally posted by j-ickx-fan
I think Prost was under contract with Phillip Morris when he entered the Formula One. No idea how long were the contracts with tobacco sponsors but this could have been a good reason.


Didn't stop de Cesaris. ;)

#9 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:36

Guy Ligier was quite well in charge of his operations. His state funding and own love for his country has influenced his drivers choice certainly (he drove himself in french blue cars so often and can be regarded as a little french Enzo Ferrari).
The seventies did give us many french talents through the efforts of (amongst others) Elf and Renault. So it wasnt chauvinism only.


By the way me mom looked to purchase a Ligier Ambra or Be-Up but couldnt show her super-licence!! What's going on! :cat:

#10 Muzza

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 13:28

Hello,

The sentence "Ligier was formed in 1976 if you are not sure" in the opening posting is not accurate. The French team had its first Formula 1 Grand Prix in 1976, but things started much earlier than that - yes, there is life outside Formula 1...

Guy Ligier was pretty much in charge of his own racing team (where he was a driver) since circa 1965. He had good business sense (developed as a construction contractor), and had been racing since 1959 or so. Guy retired from racing in 1968 shortly after his close friend Jo Schlesser died at the French GP and in the next year Ligier was structured as a business. The company produced a charming GT (the JS1, JS of course standing for Jo Schlesser) and a boxy electric car aimed for urban purposes with fiberglass body. Ligier cars were indeed sold to the public and it is a pity that the Ligier owners website has gone belly up some time ago - there were quite some nice pictures at those pages.

Racing-wise, the marque made took it to the track for the first time at Le Mans in 1970 (and not 1971, as usually said) with a JS1, and Guy came out of retirement to share it with Jean-Claude Andruet. Its first sport prototype, the JS3, made the next race - again with Guy at the wheel, this time with Patrick Depailler (and not, the car was not painted on the Gallic blue that would make it famous - it was canary yellow instead).

Ligier sorties au Mans continued throughout the first half of the 1970s, and a JS2 finished the race in second place in 1975 with Chasseuil and Lafosse (it must be said that the 1975 event had no major manufacturers involved and that the race was run under a fuel economy formula, not scoring points for the World Championship).

Formula 1 only came after all that.

Cheers,


Muzza

#11 Bengt

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 13:51

I'm sorry to correct you Muzza, but the Ligier JS1 took to the tracks before the Le Mans 24 hours race in 1970. Jean-Claude Andruet startet in the first ever European 2000 cc sportscar championship race at Paul Ricard, 19 April 1970. Before that, Le patron himself, Guy Ligier, had started in at least two minor races in France, Albi 22 March and Nogaro 29 March. http://www.wsrp.wz.cz/nonchamp.html

#12 Peter Morley

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 13:59

Originally posted by Muzza

Racing-wise, the marque made took it to the track for the first time at Le Mans in 1970 (and not 1971, as usually said) with a JS1, and Guy came out of retirement to share it with Jean-Claude Andruet. Its first sport prototype, the JS3, made the next race - again with Guy at the wheel, this time with Patrick Depailler (and not, the car was not painted on the Gallic blue that would make it famous - it was canary yellow instead).


The JS3 was (& still is) yellow & green, to reflect the sponsor BP (when we found it, it had only ever done a handful of races and was still in its original colours).

Isn't it strange that a team who were so French started of with a sponsor called British Petroleum!!

I agree with the comment that a mediocre F1 team would have been hard put to have improved on the driver line-up. Certainly a far more impressive line-up than some other teams (far less surprising than say McLaren's long term attachment to DC).

#13 Hieronymus

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 14:03

Originally posted by Muzza

Its first sport prototype, the JS3, made the next race - again with Guy at the wheel, this time with Patrick Depailler (and not, the car was not painted on the Gallic blue that would make it famous - it was canary yellow instead).

Muzza


Who is the current owner of the yellow JS3? I believe the much discussed MOTOR SPORT magazine covered an article on this car (restored) a couple of years ago.

I hear this car is on its way to South Africa to compete in a series of historic races (at Zwartkops and Killarney) as part of the David Piper et al. annual visit. Can't recall the name of the chap that will apparently drive the JS3, though. Jabowski, Jankowski, Janblomski????

#14 bigears

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 14:28

Originally posted by Muzza
Hello,

The sentence "Ligier was formed in 1976 if you are not sure" in the opening posting is not accurate. The French team had its first Formula 1 Grand Prix in 1976, but things started much earlier than that - yes, there is life outside Formula 1...


My apologies, I looked up in the Forix database and clicked on Ligier and it stated that the Ligier F1 team was formed in 1976. Of course, there is more things outside Formula One! :) Same for my mistake of not stating Jacky Ickx as Belgian! :blush:

I heard somewhere that Beltoise nearly moved to Ligier in 1975? As he was doing shakedown runs for the new Ligier F1 car ready for the 1975 or 1976 season. Correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding about Prost never joined Ligier. Again I heard somewhere (maybe in TNF!) that after Prost left (or before joining) Williams to test for Ligier. He was certain to race for them but then the deal fell through.

#15 T54

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 15:55

Latiffe should have made shampoo's advertisement (French readers only...)



But in this case, it would have been, "Jack La Tiffs" no? :rotfl:

#16 Muzza

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 15:57

Originally posted by Bengt
I'm sorry to correct you Muzza, but the Ligier JS1 took to the tracks before the Le Mans 24 hours race in 1970. Jean-Claude Andruet startet in the first ever European 2000 cc sportscar championship race at Paul Ricard, 19 April 1970. Before that, Le patron himself, Guy Ligier, had started in at least two minor races in France, Albi 22 March and Nogaro 29 March. http://www.wsrp.wz.cz/nonchamp.html


Hello, Bengt,


Thanks for the correction - you are absolutely right. I think Guy also raced in one (more?) hillclimb in the car before the 1970 Le Mans, but I am not sure about it. I checked my files and could not find anything, but I seem to remember that.

Cheers,


Muzza

#17 philippe7

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 16:09

Originally posted by Muzza
The company produced a charming GT (the JS1, JS of course standing for Jo Schlesser) and a boxy electric car aimed for urban purposes with fiberglass body. Ligier cars were indeed sold to the public



Hi Muzza

Just one little thing for the sake of accuracy : I don't think the original JS1 was ever sold to the public. I think only one, maybe two were built . The JS2 was the "public"model .

#18 BRG

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 16:54

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
By the way me mom looked to purchase a Ligier Ambra or Be-Up but couldnt show her super-licence!! What's going on! :cat:

http://www.rumcars.org/Ligier.html

A twin cylinder 550cc diesel micro-car is a long way from F1 glory. And yet it was always the basis of Ligier's business. Can there ever have been another company that worked at such extreme ends of the automotive spectrum?

#19 chofar

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 16:57

Not every French driver was linked with Elf. Laffite had some BP backup too in Formula 2 in 1974-1975 (But in the mean time he drove The Ligier JS 2 which were sponsored by TOTAL... talk about nowadays exclusivity !!)

I remember the media-hurricane in 1982 when Cheever was drafted by Ligier, Auto Hebdo notably was very virulent.

As for Prost, he had Renault written all over his original-wrapper and he was too expensive from the start, I mean everybody knew he was different and he was THE ONE. After him, the 'Filière ELF' was soon to be dead.

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#20 T54

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 17:08

After him, the 'Filière ELF' was soon to be dead.



Really? Never mind the dozens of great (and winning) drivers that La Filiere, then the FFSA which took over when Elf was asorbed by Total, have produced since, from Bourdais to Bouchut to Tinseau just to name a few. That they are not in a F1 car does not mean that they have no talent...
Which other promotional concern, oil or tobacco financed, or purely federational, has produced more winners?
Regards,

T54

#21 chofar

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 18:35

That's what arrives when you type hastily in a foreign language.
I was thinking about Formula One. At the time, the final goal of the Elf involvment was to have a French world Champion. Cevert could have been the one, then Laffite in 1981, Pironi in 1982. But when came Prost, there was a feeling that he was really able to do it, no matter the circumstances. If he wasn't able, no other French was (at least after Pironi's crash). The others always seemed to have to benefit from luck, in a somewhat typical french manner.
What I meant about the Filiére was that not many drivers came to Formula One after Prost and that only 2 of them won a race. In fact I was not talking about 'la Filière Elf' as it was named officialy at the Le Mans track but about what BRG calls 'the wave of good French drivers' of the end of 70's-beginning of 80's.

I was a kid at the time and supporter of what Sport-Auto called in 1978 'French team of Formula One' . Does anyone remember the cover ? I must admit I was a lesser fan of Philippe Alliot or François Hesnault.

#22 Vicuna

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 18:44

My memory is telling me that after Patrick Depallier's hang-gliding accident, there was no available French driver and the reason J.Ickx got the job was because he was French speaking.

Does anyone else remember that?

#23 Muzza

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 19:12

Originally posted by philippe7



Hi Muzza

Just one little thing for the sake of accuracy : I don't think the original JS1 was ever sold to the public. I think only one, maybe two were built . The JS2 was the "public"model .


Sorry, sloppy writing from my part - I meant that Ligier road cars in general were made available to public, not the JS1 (if a JS1 was ever sold, this is not of my knowledge, so I agree with you).

Do you remember the name of Ligier urban car? I cannot recall it?

Also, where did the Ligier car owner website go? It had a number of good pictures.


Originally posted by BRG
http://www.rumcars.org/Ligier.html

A twin cylinder 550cc diesel micro-car is a long way from F1 glory. And yet it was always the basis of Ligier's business. Can there ever have been another company that worked at such extreme ends of the automotive spectrum?


The Fittipaldi brothers began their entrepreneurial endeavours making steering wheels - still as teenagers - and went up the ladder to build Formula 1 cars. Several automotive companies (Mitsubishi, Porsche, BMW) have designed and built bicycles; garagiste/constructors such as Lotus have done the same. Eagle (Dan Gurney's company) has of course the Alligator bike, and it also works on some secret projects for the US military (Air Force, I understand). I think there are many similar stories - but Ligier, starting from microcars/sportscars to Formula 1 and then back to its origin - is a peculiar case indeed.

#24 Zawed

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 19:53

Originally posted by bigears

Regarding about Prost never joined Ligier. Again I heard somewhere (maybe in TNF!) that after Prost left (or before joining) Williams to test for Ligier. He was certain to race for them but then the deal fell through.


He did a fair bit of testing for Ligier prior to the start of the 92 season, only to opt out of a race seat at the last minute (probably because the car was shite), and Comas continued with the team.

#25 T54

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 19:54

Not discounting the important fact that Jacques La Tiff won the Grand Prix des Coiffeurs in a Ligier microcar! :rotfl:

OK, I will go to my room now. :blush:

#26 Twin Window

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 20:44

Originally posted by angst

Didn't stop de Cesaris. ;)

Nor Johansson, whose 1988 salary was in fact was paid by Phillip Morris (Marlboro) during his season with Ligier, in order to keep him on their books.

Indeed, I heard the same about Senna at Williams...

#27 chofar

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 20:51

Not discounting the important fact that Jacques La Tiff won the Grand Prix des Coiffeurs in a Ligier microcar!



And it was a hairy race !! :rolleyes:

Back to the thread, being the first non-french to drive a Ligier was not a bargain for Eddie Cheever : the 82 car was the worst Ligier to that date (but worse were to come).

#28 Twin Window

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:01

Originally posted by chofar

...being the first non-french to drive a Ligier was not a bargain for Eddie Cheever

As must surely have been pointed out already, Jacky Ickx of Belgium was the first non-French Ligier driver.

#29 MCS

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:15

Originally posted by Peter Morley
Isn't it strange that a team who were so French started of with a sponsor called British Petroleum!!


BP France always had their budget to "advertise" and, to their credit, did it very well indeed by sponsoring a number of French teams and drivers - amongst them of course Monsieur Lafitte in F3 and F2...

Typically, at the time, the "advertising budget" in the UK was spent on other things...:(

Mark

#30 MCS

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:18

Originally posted by bigears
If Guy Ligier (or whoever was in charge at the time) recruited a non-French driver, surely they could get more success than their French drivers they brought into the Ligier F1 team?

What are your opinions about this?


Big Ears - I don't understand what you mean :confused:

Mark

#31 Twin Window

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:19

I seem to remember Gerry Birrell driving a BP sponsored Ford Belgium Capri in the Gp2 thrash supporting the 1972 Victory race.

#32 bigears

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:24

Originally posted by MCS


Big Ears - I don't understand what you mean :confused:

Mark


Sorry about that, I am trying to find the right words. Say for example if Guy Ligier signed up a non-French driver, he could get more success on the track. But then maybe due to his patriotism and his aim to satisfy his sponsors like Gitanes so therefore he have to sign up a French driver. But it didn't quite bring in a lot of success, only notched up a couple of wins from 1979-1981 and that surprise win at Monaco in 1996.

So I am asking if is that the case or the aim for Guy Ligier for his F1 team? Surely he could done better if he signed up a non-French driver then he could get more success and more money to develop the team forward?

I hope you understand what I mean this time. :)

#33 MCS

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:32

Originally posted by Twin Window
I seem to remember Gerry Birrell driving a BP sponsored Ford Belgium Capri in the Gp2 thrash supporting the 1972 Victory race.


...meaning it was BP Benelux money?...(not quite with you)...

Mark

#34 Twin Window

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 21:47

Yeah, I was reinforcing what you'd said about BP France doing a good job at a time when BP Britain did bugger-all from memory. Birrell's Capri was backed by BP Belgium, I guess, as it was a Ford Belgium entry.

It wasn't until Les Thacker became involved that the UK began to emulate their mainland-european cousins, and create a motor sporting presence. BP's backing of Stephen South & Rupert Keegan, plus the consequent ad campaigns which supported their sponsorships, worked very well I thought.

#35 MCS

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 22:26

Originally posted by Twin Window
Yeah, I was reinforcing what you'd said about BP France doing a good job at a time when BP Britain did bugger-all from memory. Birrell's Capri was backed by BP Belgium, I guess, as it was a Ford Belgium entry.


Oh dear, we really aren't on the same wavelength these days are we ??? :lol:

Mark

#36 dmj

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 22:52

Originally posted by Vicuna
My memory is telling me that after Patrick Depallier's hang-gliding accident, there was no available French driver and the reason J.Ickx got the job was because he was French speaking.

Does anyone else remember that?


It certainly helps if drivers can speak the same language as mechanics and rest of team. Presumably Ligier was all-French speaking tim in early days, late seventies, so it had to be a huge advantage for anyone to get a job there if speaking French.

#37 D-Type

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 23:12

Regarding BP. They were one of Stirling Moss's main sponsors throughout his career. Possibly after his retirement they (or at least BP UK) may have felt he was a hard act to follow.

Regarding Ligier. When they started they were obviously not a front runner straight away so would not have attracted a top class foreigner. Being a French team they would be attractive to French sponsors, with French drivers even more so and as has been pointed out it helps when drivers speak the same language as the team personnel.

Regarding Frenchmen. I always find it surprising that a team as nationalistic as BRM should employ Raymond Sommer, Jean Behra and Harry Schell (OK he was American but born and raised in France). Ditto Vanwall with Trintignant and Schell. I suppose that if there was an 'enemy' nation it was the one that those d*mned red cars came from.

Edited by D-Type, 14 June 2012 - 08:44.


#38 T54

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 23:48

Say for example if Guy Ligier signed up a non-French driver, he could get more success on the track.



Meaning that French drivers are not as good as some from planet Mongo? :confused:

#39 Twin Window

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 00:31

Originally posted by D-Type

Regarding Frenchmen. I always find it surprising that a team as nationalistic as BRM should employ Raymond Sommer, Jean Behra and harry Schell (OK he was American but born and raised in France).

And not forgetting their 1974 line-up of Beltoise, Pescarolo and Migault, plus title sponsorship courtesy of Motul! (And no, I've not forgotten about Amon's late-season inclusion)

I suppose that if there was an 'enemy' nation it was the one that those d*mned red cars came from.

Steady on, old chap...

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#40 eldougo

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 08:04

Who is, "Jacques Latiffe"? :cat:

I Guess he means (Laffite )

#41 chofar

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 08:48

:blush: Ok, I missed Jacky Ickx...
It was nevertheless Cheever's coming which initiated the movement, Ickx just doing an interim in difficult circumstances.

I am with T54 on the 'Planet Mongo' syndrom. Ligier's line-up, up to 1984, was composed of very good drivers. There were better ones, surely, but every one of them had been part of a top-team before or after their ligier days. Not to forget that Laffite was a championship contender in 1981. In this era, only Jarier was not a Grand Prix winner (and still is :( )

#42 j-ickx-fan

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 10:00

Originally posted by Vicuna
My memory is telling me that after Patrick Depallier's hang-gliding accident, there was no available French driver and the reason J.Ickx got the job was because he was French speaking.

Does anyone else remember that?


During a discussion with Jacky Ickx, I asked him why he had agreed to drive for Ligier while he participated in the Can-Am championship in 1979 and his answer was immediate: the friendship between Guy Ligier and himself.

Ligier had not found a available driver having the same morphology as Depailler and asked Ickx to do the job. Because of their friendship which dated from their period in Formula 2, Jacky accepted even knowing that he should make long distant fly every weekend beween America and Europe.
His job was only to help Laffite in the race for the title.

So the same language was a help but it was more a question of driver's morphology.

#43 Macca

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 10:51

posted by D-Type:

Regarding Frenchmen. I always find it surprising that a team as nationalistic as BRM should employ Raymond Sommer, Jean Behra and harry Schell (OK he was American but born and raised in France). Ditto vanwall with Trintignant and Schell. I suppose that if there was an 'enemy' nation it was the one that those d*mned red cars came from



For BRM a lot of the time it was a matter of finding drivers that they hadn't already upset or been rejected by (Moss, Collins, Hawthorn, Brooks, Salvadori, Scott-Brown); they stuck by Ron Flockhart for a long time, but most of the good drivers were with other teams who they knew gave them a better chance( don't know about Ken Wharton - he'd driven for Vanwall too).

ISTR Behra needed a car for a n/c French race when he was a Maserati GP driver in 1957 so BRM provided one (and Schell used one as well), and when Maserati cut back in 1958 they were the best available - remember how after 'Mac' Fraser was killed they were reduced to using Les Leston & Jack Fairman at Aintree in 1957.


Wasn't the possibility of Prost driving for Ligier in 1992 stymied by him having to return the payoff from Ferrari for taking 'gardening leave' since he was still under contract but effectively sacked for daring to criticize them?


Paul M

#44 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:26

Isnt that just a typical answer from Jacky as well as the way racing was those days. What a great personality he is. Isnt that why we call these days X-mas???


Originally posted by j-ickx-fan


During a discussion with Jacky Ickx, I asked him why he had agreed to drive for Ligier while he participated in the Can-Am championship in 1979 and his answer was immediate: the friendship between Guy Ligier and himself.

His job was only to help Laffite in the race for the title.



#45 j-ickx-fan

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:43

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Isnt that just a typical answer from Jacky as well as the way racing was those days. What a great personality he is. Isnt that why we call these days X-mas???


For Jacky Ickx, friendship was always (and still is) above anything else.

#46 Peter Morley

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 13:25

Originally posted by Hieronymus


Who is the current owner of the yellow JS3? I believe the much discussed MOTOR SPORT magazine covered an article on this car (restored) a couple of years ago.

I hear this car is on its way to South Africa to compete in a series of historic races (at Zwartkops and Killarney) as part of the David Piper et al. annual visit. Can't recall the name of the chap that will apparently drive the JS3, though. Jabowski, Jankowski, Janblomski????


Having bought it from Laffitte, we sold JS3 (via Roger Cowman & Willie Green) to Nicholas Zapata.
They had it rebuilt by Simon Hadfield - I think they talked to the original designer (Ducarouge?) who presumably authenticated the redesign.

Nicholas Zapata sold the car just before this year's Le-Mans classic to Mike Jankowski, who had Bobby Verdon-Roe drive the car at Le-Mans.

It will presumably continue its winning ways in the hands of its new owner.

#47 Hieronymus

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 14:07

Peter

Thank you very much for this bit of information. After my post yesterday, I again had a look at the driver/car entrants for the historic races that I mentioned. Yes, they do have the name of Mike Jankowski, but apparently as driver. At least I myself was on the right track with this name, although I am not familiar with this gentleman. The organisers must have been under the wrong impression, if they consider him as the driver.

Nevertheless, it will nice to see this car out here and I trust it will make it also to the Cape Town event, the first weekend in February.

Do you know if this car still have a Cosworth V8 as powerplant? I presume that it is the case, if it is considered authentic.

#48 T54

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 15:43

I Guess he means (Laffite )



Oh, it's all clear to me now. :rotfl:

Does it mean that Jacques Lafitte did not win the Grand Prix des Coiffeurs?
What a disappointment...

#49 Peter Morley

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 16:19

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Peter

Thank you very much for this bit of information. After my post yesterday, I again had a look at the driver/car entrants for the historic races that I mentioned. Yes, they do have the name of Mike Jankowski, but apparently as driver. At least I myself was on the right track with this name, although I am not familiar with this gentleman. The organisers must have been under the wrong impression, if they consider him as the driver.

Nevertheless, it will nice to see this car out here and I trust it will make it also to the Cape Town event, the first weekend in February.

Do you know if this car still have a Cosworth V8 as powerplant? I presume that it is the case, if it is considered authentic.


I expect the owner will drive the car himself - when you own such a car I am sure you would want to drive it!

If he is the Mike Jankowski who owns Creation Autosportif then I don't think he will find any problem driving the car.

When he bought it Zapata was going to drive the car, I assume he at least tested it, but I suspect that he discovered it was a bit too much!!

Yes it still has a Cosworth DFV, probably with a bit more power than it had originally!!

If you can get to see it you should, it is a stunning car.

#50 bigears

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 17:36

What I meant about this thread that this is not a poke at the quality and success of the French drivers.

But T54's post did make me think that Ligier's successful time is when the French drivers (none of those non-French drivers did) won a GP or more from 1979-1981. So the success could have continued after the 1981 season but it didn't.

Is it all down to the quality of the Ligier cars? (someone mentioned that the 1982 car was poor so Laffite couldn't produce a win)

I am getting more sheepish about my spelling errors all over this thread! :blush: