Rallye Paris St. Raphael
#1
Posted 21 December 2004 - 13:14
It was a female race, if I remember well, anf first edition of the rally happened before World War 2.
Thanks.
#3
Posted 21 December 2004 - 16:06
#4
Posted 17 January 2005 - 18:56
February 20-24, 1929
Paris – Vichy – Lyon – Avignon – Miramas – La Ciotat – Hyeres – Saint Raphael (1087 km)
Start 20 ladies, finish 16 (12 without penalty points)
Classification (on the basis 5 km speed trial and 2 km hill climb) :
1. Lietard (Salmson)
2. Schell (Talbot)
3. Vivier (Citroen)
4. Heu (Citroen)
5. Lang (Rosengart)
Madame Lietard
Two minutes before start
The start of the second stage
Source Auto (sorry, poor quality)
#5
Posted 22 November 2005 - 11:42
I've found an other accident that happened in (May?) 1970 during the Paris-St.-Raphaël Rally, in which a female driver named Acary (or Acamy?) was killed. I have not any other information about.
#6
Posted 22 November 2005 - 19:45
#7
Posted 05 December 2005 - 14:49
Originally posted by anjakub
I Rallye Feminin Paris – Saint Raphael
February 20-24, 1929
Paris – Vichy – Lyon – Avignon – Miramas – La Ciotat – Hyeres – Saint Raphael (1087 km)
Start 20 ladies, finish 16 (12 without penalty points)
Classification (on the basis 5 km speed trial and 2 km hill climb) :
1. Lietard (Salmson)
2. Schell (Talbot)
3. Vivier (Citroen)
4. Heu (Citroen)
5. Lang (Rosengart)
Madame Lietard
Two minutes before start
The start of the second stage
Source Auto (sorry, poor quality)
I found only
Rallye Féminin Paris – Saint Raphael (1), 20 - 24 February 1929 Paris – Vichy – Lyon – Avignon – Miramas – La Ciotat – Hyeres – Saint Raphael (1087 km) Start 20 ladies, finish 16 (12 without penalty points) Classification (on the basis 5 km speed trial and 2 km hill climb) : 1 Lietard F Salmson 2 Schell Talbot 3 Vivier Citroen 4 Heu Citroen 5 Lang Rosengart Rallye Féminin Paris – Saint Raphael ( ??), 1937 1 Mme Rouault 2 Mme Simon 3 Mlle Desforet source: Miroir des Sports 1938 Rallye Féminin Paris – Saint Raphael ( ??), 28 May 1961 1 G. Renault – J. Pivoit F/F Dauphine Gordini 995,34 2 A. Nioncelle – G. de Rolland Dauphine Gordini 1016,08 3 A. Kissel – N. Kissel Panhard 1137,38 4 N. Courault – C. Taste Citroen ID 19 1160,70 5 G. Pare – S. Darmangeat Simca Montlhéry 1670,43 source: Sport Mondial no. 65 Rallye Féminin Paris – Saint Raphael (21), 19 May 1963 1 Lucette Pontet – Mme. Dutel F/F Citroën DS 19 774 2 G. Renault – Mme Bivois F/F Renault 777 3 Mme Petit – Mlle Mondoloni Renault 823 4 Mlle Mahieuw – Mlle Delcourt F/F Alfa Romeo 5 Mlle Petit – Mlle Hanni Porsche 6 Mme Martino – Mme Maradji Porsche 7 Mlle Mermod – Mlle Perré Alfa Romeo 8 Mme Spinedi – Mme Derolland Austin-Cooper 9 N. Courault – Mme Espiard Citroën DS 19 10 Mme Pierrat – Mme Schmidt Citroën ID 19 source: Sport Mondial no. 86 Rallye Féminin Paris – Saint Raphael, 20-27 May 1973, round 10 ERC 1 Marianne Hoepfner – Yveline Vanoni F/F Alpine A110 Renault 1.19.01,8 2 "Charlotte" – Marie-José Hommel F/F Alpine A110 Renault 1.20.44 3 Marie-Pierre Palayer – M-F Helly F/F Alpine A110 Renault 1.21.57 4 Christine Dacremont – Françoise Conconi F/F Alpine A110 Renault 1.25.16 5 Donatella Tominz – Gabriella Mamolo I/I Fiat 124 Spyder 1.25.45,6 Source: Autocourse 1973-74 Rallye Féminin Paris – Saint Raphael, 8-12 May 1974, round 9 ERC 1 "Christine" – "Biche" F/F Lancia Stratos 2.47.30 (Group 5 ineligible for championship) 2 Charlotte Verney – Legou F/F Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.48.36 3 Donatella Tominz – Gabriella Mamolo I/I Fiat Abarth 124 Rally 2.53.37 4 "Charlotte" – Duran F/F Alpine A110 Renault 2.54.25 5 Michele Mouton – Furia F/F Alpine A110 Renault 2.55.21 Source: Autocourse 1974-75 Claudine Trautmann winner in 1964-66-67-68-69 Marianne Hoepfner winner 1972
Gerrit Stevens
#8
Posted 13 January 2006 - 09:47
#9
Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:27
#10
Posted 27 April 2012 - 20:55
http://speedqueens.b...hael-rally.html
It's still a work in progress, and information is always welcome.
#11
Posted 27 April 2012 - 21:19
Category A
1 Betty Haig (MG) 2980
2 Mrs AC Lace (Talbot) 2824
3 Mimi Descollas (Lancia) 2323
4 Germaine Rouault (Delahaye) 2237
5 Dorothy Stanley Turner (MG) 2213
6 Amy Johnson (Talbot) 2176
7 Mlle Lamberjack (Talbot) 2098
8 Yvette Simon (Hotchkiss) 2075
9 Mlle Carsignol (Georges Irat) 2057
10 Mlle d'Oncieu (Georges Irat) 2029
11 Mme Kronbauerova (Aero) 1767
12 Mme Loerz (Ford) 1025
Category B
1 Mme Largeot (Simca) 2286
2 Mme Roux (Amilcar) 1889
3 Mme Dassonville (Peugeot) 1791
4 Mme Boscher (Hotchkiss) 1764
5 Mme Jourdan (Peugeot) 1738
6 Mme Prost (Renault) 1696
7 Mme Reybert (Renault) 1689
8 Mme Dequeker (Delahaye) 1492
9 Mme Blandin (Bugatti) 1420
Edited by Vitesse2, 27 April 2012 - 21:19.
#12
Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:55
Are Mimi and Claire Descollas the same person? One of them (I've always assumed Claire) was the wife of Gaston Descollas.
They seem to compete in the same cars.
#13
Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:03
Yes, one and the same (une et la même?). Married to Gaston.Thanks for that.
Are Mimi and Claire Descollas the same person? One of them (I've always assumed Claire) was the wife of Gaston Descollas.
They seem to compete in the same cars.
The French National Library website Gallica is a very good source for pre-war Paris-St Raphael reports and results, although it does need a bit of work to find them as only some of the newspapers are searchable by keyword. I compiled those 1938 results using a combination of Le Figaro and l'Intransigeant (plus the Journal de Genève from the Le Temps archive, since the route ran through Switzerland and they visited the Geneva Motor Show)
Edited by Vitesse2, 28 April 2012 - 08:08.
#14
Posted 28 April 2012 - 14:47
And why was the event in 1973 & 4 shown as a round of the European Rally Championship? How could it be if it wasn't open to all (ie male competitors)?
#15
Posted 28 April 2012 - 16:41
The 1973 event is shown in the Yellow Book as specifically part of the European Cup for Ladies, which otherwise encompassed all rounds of the European Rally Championship. I don't have the 1974 Yellow Book, but it was presumably the same.And why was the event in 1973 & 4 shown as a round of the European Rally Championship? How could it be if it wasn't open to all (ie male competitors)?
And overall, the points scoring system was so bloody complicated that I doubt it inconvenienced anybody. No points were awarded for an event if there were fewer than 40 starters, only the best six scores overall could be counted (from about 25 possible) and drivers also could only count their best two events per country! (Quite how that works for the Munich-Vienna-Budapest or the Lyon-Charbonnieres-Stuttgart-Solitude I have no idea!) Presumably the idea was that you could run a campaign regionally so that (for example) Scandinavians wouldn't have to trek off to Italy, Portugal or Yugoslavia and could just take part in the Nordic events. In the 1974 championship, a driver called Pradera scored a total of 42 points in 3 rallies, but they were all in Spain, so he had to drop the 12 for third place in the Firestone - this dropped him down the overall list from 6th to one of five placed joint 9th: three of the others in that group were Markku Alen, Stig Blomqvist and Jean-Pierre Nicolas!
The 1975 scoring system was even more complicated, involving four different coefficients, but 1974 appears to have been the last Rallye Féminin.
#16
Posted 28 April 2012 - 17:12
#17
Posted 28 April 2012 - 21:10
#18
Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:06
#19
Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:10
I'm guessing there was some sort of points coefficient which meant that a win on the St Raphael didn't count for that many points as a win in a mixed-entry event.
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#20
Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:46
#21
Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:47
No, the points tables indicate that it was of equal value. As I posted above, the coefficients weren't introduced until 1975.No you're right, I'm thinking of the WRC.
I'm guessing there was some sort of points coefficient which meant that a win on the St Raphael didn't count for that many points as a win in a mixed-entry event.
#22
Posted 29 April 2012 - 19:58
I have always been a proponent of more female participation in motorsport, but it was still wrong to allow an event to count for a championship when most competitors were precluded by their gender. Some sort of wrong headed affirmative action perhaps?The 1973 table published in Autosport shows that the points scored by Hoepfner (1st, 20 points) and Tominz (5th, 8 points) on the Paris-St Raphael match the scores from the other events. (The 1973 ERC was scored 20-15-12-10-8-6-4-3-2-1).
#23
Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:12
My reading of the situation, based on post #15, is that the intention was that it would be a qualifying round in the women's championship only. On that basis, claiming points towards the main ERC is incorrect and inappropriate, which is the point you are making.I have always been a proponent of more female participation in motorsport, but it was still wrong to allow an event to count for a championship when most competitors were precluded by their gender. Some sort of wrong headed affirmative action perhaps?
#24
Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:31
#25
Posted 13 August 2015 - 21:47
I've reworked my Paris-St. Raphael article. It's getting closer to a full results table now.