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Crazy racing engines


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#701 carlt

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 16:35

I love the way they've gone fishing for the turbo on the LeMans engine [pic 9]
is that the actual instal on the car , or just for display ?

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#702 Magoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 20:14

I love the way they've gone fishing for the turbo on the LeMans engine [pic 9]
is that the actual instal on the car , or just for display ?


Yes, whoever built the Cadillac LMP display had their work cut out for them as originally, the turbo installation was draped all over the back half of the car. The display builder had to devise some way to make it a stand-alone deal on an engine pedestal.

An FYI... The slideshow function loads the photos in random order each time a viewer loads the page. I configured it that way to keep things simple.

#703 Bob Riebe

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 20:59

I do not know how many feet cubed per minute they flow but the side-draught Carters are interesting.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 20 September 2012 - 21:00.


#704 Magoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 23:11

Carter YH, the sidedraft version of the YF, the standard Carter downdraft one-barrel used on everything. Here is a whole thread on the carb from a few years ago...


http://forums.autosp...required please

#705 Rasputin

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:39

That 2002 Cadillac V16, image 1 and 16, I wonder how serious that one really was, it looks very detailed and composed, not xperimental at all?

#706 Magoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:04

That 2002 Cadillac V16, image 1 and 16, I wonder how serious that one really was, it looks very detailed and composed, not xperimental at all?


runs fine.


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#707 Rasputin

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:41

I believe you, was it a true V16, or was it effectively two V8s geared together? As I said, it looks xtremely purposeful.

Any figures on displacement and power?

#708 Greg Locock

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:06

I believe you, was it a true V16, or was it effectively two V8s geared together? As I said, it looks xtremely purposeful.

Any figures on displacement and power?


According to the anoraks at wiki, 13 litres, and 'more than 1000 hp'

Because that's what you get when you weld two 6.7 litre 500 hp engines together. See designing engines is easy, I don't know why they make such a fuss about it.

Fifty bucks says it never deliberately exceeded 4000 rpm at full throttle on a dyno or in a car.



#709 carlt

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:25

An FYI... The slideshow function loads the photos in random order each time a viewer loads the page. I configured it that way to keep things simple.



Brings to mind a line from one of Jim Morrison's classics - Stoned Immaculate - "....back in the day things were simpler and more confused..."



#710 Magoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:25

According to the anoraks at wiki, 13 litres, and 'more than 1000 hp'

Because that's what you get when you weld two 6.7 litre 500 hp engines together. See designing engines is easy, I don't know why they make such a fuss about it.

Fifty bucks says it never deliberately exceeded 4000 rpm at full throttle on a dyno or in a car.


You'd lose that particular bet. The V16s have tens of thousands of miles on them, both in the Sixteen concept shown here and in an SUV mule with a stretched nose.

The Sixteen is still out running. The photos above were taken in February of this year. I included the trunk photo to show that the Sixteen concept is also a fully functional and instrumented test vehicle.

The V16 is based on the LS V8 architecture but it's a bit more involved than two V8 blocks welded together. Different bank angle for one thing; new block, heads, crank, cam.

This deal came surprisingly close to production greenlight and is not totally deceased yet.

#711 Rasputin

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:37

The V16 is based on the LS V8 architecture but it's a bit more involved than two V8 blocks welded together. Different bank angle for one thing; new block, heads, crank, cam.

I was thinking as much, it looks very purpose-built and narrow, 60 degree angle perhaps? But the xhausts look terrible, gaah.

Edited by Rasputin, 21 September 2012 - 12:38.


#712 desmo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:42

And why are the wheels so stupidly large?

#713 Magoo

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 15:19

And why are the wheels so stupidly large?


With a smaller wheel the tire would slip right off.







#714 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:06

:)

#715 Magoo

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 22:47

I am a highly trained, highly paid automotive professional. You can ask me this stuff.

#716 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 23:28

I can vouch for that, but there is a fee involved.

#717 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:59

I can vouch for that, but there is a fee involved.

Smart man. Won't vouch without proper compensation.

As an aside, I'll vouch for Tony's vouching powers. Tony, you only have to buy me dinner.

#718 Bob Riebe

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:11

Carter YH, the sidedraft version of the YF, the standard Carter downdraft one-barrel used on everything. Here is a whole thread on the carb from a few years ago...


http://forums.autosp...required please

Thanks for that link.

Now if one wanted a attention getting set-up that cost a fraction of Italian carbs, put something similar on a lessor hyped sixties/seventies muscle car, say a Javelin,
set-up for very sporting driving.

Of course one would have the task of keeping them tuned, although again, much cheaper than the Italian jobs.

#719 Tony Matthews

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:07

As an aside, I'll vouch for Tony's vouching powers. Tony, you only have to buy me dinner.

People don't understand that vouching cost money. Virtual office, virtual staff, real beer - all outgoings. Perhaps we could vouch for each other, OLB, and swop virtual dinners.


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#720 Greg Locock

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:47

You'd lose that particular bet. ...This deal came surprisingly close to production greenlight and is not totally deceased yet.

Ouch, that'll teach me. So there is hope for Cadillac after all.

#721 fredeuce

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 22:42

Interesting how they have attempted to capture some of the flavour of the original production Caddy V16's from the 1930's.

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#722 Magoo

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:15

Interesting how they have attempted to capture some of the flavour of the original production Caddy V16's from the 1930's.



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Absolutely. Good eye. The 2002 V16 was quite deliberately styled as a callback to the 1930 V12/V16. (There was also a 1938 V16 but it was ugly as sin, looked like a pancake bus engine.) Cadillac has repeatedly revisited the >eight approach through the years.... it would serve as a powerful brand differentiator in the luxury class, for one thing. The way I hear it, they just took one more run at it in recent months, but were apparently turned back by impending CAFE requirements and, let's face it, the entire market moving in the opposite direction.

Here's a 1963 attempt to do a V12, but this time around they did a 472/500 CID V8 instead.

Cadillac's Phantom V12 | Mac's Motor City Garage







#723 Magoo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 16:13

Running scale-model engines are always among the most popular items at MCG. According to the traffic, people go nuts over them. Besides, I like them. To me they are fine art. Here is one of the nicest ones yet, a quarter-scale Offy 270. Check it out.


Tiny model Offy runs like a real one | Mac's Motor City Garage



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#724 Rasputin

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:47

I read an article years ago, it was in Road & Track I believe, that Chevrolet built a Corvette V12 prototype in the 90s, any info on that one?

#725 Magoo

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 15:03

I read an article years ago, it was in Road & Track I believe, that Chevrolet built a Corvette V12 prototype in the 90s, any info on that one?


They had a C4 Corvette built with a Falconer V12 (which is a V12 SBC, pretty much) but I don't think there was ever any production intent in that direction. That said, just because I didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I can think of several factors mitigating for and against such a thing:

At around that time at least two of the Detroit three were looking at V12 and V10 versions of their small-block V8s as a cheap way to do a truck engine. Chrysler (truck V10 and Viper) and Ford (Triton) actually ended up doing them.

The SBC V8's output limit is knock as the center cylinders are very difficult to cool. (The head us EIIEEIIE, among other things.) This was the impetus behind the backward cooling on the Gen II/LT1 SBC V8, which was only partially effective. A V10 or V12 SBC would be that much worse.

Edited by Magoo, 28 September 2012 - 15:08.


#726 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:00

People don't understand that vouching cost money. Virtual office, virtual staff, real beer - all outgoings. Perhaps we could vouch for each other, OLB, and swop virtual dinners.

I will personally vouch for your vouching ability. Especially if you're vouching for me. In which case, I will publicly assert that Tony's vouching abilities are unparalleled.

#727 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:29

Cool.

#728 Magoo

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:26

Great moments in logrolling. Who said you guys don't understand job creation.

#729 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:09

Unemployment eliminated at a stroke. I thank you...

#730 Magoo

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:27

Okay, here is a genuine scoop. It's a 21 year-old scoop, but it's a scoop nonetheless. Take that, Woodward and Bernstein.

In 1991, a Buick Ilmor V8 Indy car engine got to at least the talking-and-pitching stage. Our own Mr. Matthews was commissioned to do the drawings. Here's the story:

The Buick Ilmor Indy V8 that never was | Mac's Motor City Garage.com


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#731 Rasputin

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:04

That's a most intriguing story Magoo, but how about this for a Crazy racing engine, never raced though, but built?

http://www.supercars.../cars/2858.html

#732 Kelpiecross

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:31

Okay, here is a genuine scoop. It's a 21 year-old scoop, but it's a scoop nonetheless. Take that, Woodward and Bernstein.

In 1991, a Buick Ilmor V8 Indy car engine got to at least the talking-and-pitching stage. Our own Mr. Matthews was commissioned to do the drawings. Here's the story:

The Buick Ilmor Indy V8 that never was | Mac's Motor City Garage.com


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What was this engine? Pushrod? OHC?


#733 Wuzak

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:27

What was this engine? Pushrod? OHC?


And was it the one that became the Mercedes Benz 500I

#734 Magoo

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:45

Why not click on the link and read the story if you are interested. When you don't click on the link, you make Baby Jesus sad. When you don't click on the link, the terrrorists win. Etc.

#735 Kelpiecross

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 13:49

Why not click on the link and read the story if you are interested. When you don't click on the link, you make Baby Jesus sad. When you don't click on the link, the terrrorists win. Etc.


I read the link a few times - it didn't appear to say whether the engine was pushrod or whatever.

#736 Wuzak

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 14:23

I read the link a few times - it didn't appear to say whether the engine was pushrod or whatever.


I reread the link and saw it suggested that the engine was a derivative of the Chevy Indycar engine. ie 4v, DOHC.

#737 Tony Matthews

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:00

There was never any mention to me of a pushrod engine, and I can't remember off-hand how I was briefed. Certainly it (the drawing) was based on the 4-cam 265A/B or even C, but there are differences, such as the protrusions on the cam covers. The timing chest has front camshaft bearing bosses, so this drawing is definitely not a pushrod engine. There is a possibility, I suppose, that the intended engine would have been a pushrod, but when you consider the lengths that Ilmor and Penske went to three years later, to hide any possible hint of what they were up to with the 500I, it's not surprising that my drawing was intended to convey only what the badging would look like.

#738 Magoo

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:19

Stop-action animation.

If you don't watch this video, your inner child will never forgive you.

Video: Nitro Warriors | Mac's Motor City Garage.com



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