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Porsche 956/962 liveries (merged)


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#1 bigears

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 03:22

The Porsche 956 car is my favourite sportscar and about to embark a collection of diecast models of the sportcar very soon. Anyway I remember there was a great article in the Autosport magazine sometime last September/October (?) about a journalist explaining why he loves the Porsche 956 (962 as well?) and mentioned different liveries like Skoal Bandit, Rothmans, JDavid, Marlboro and so on.

I just tumbled in a website as I was looking for a desktop photograph of the Porsche 956. I found this interesting image:

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http://www.gearheadg...car_vintage.htm

Did that livery ever exists? I got a growing collection of Le Mans videos and photographs and I have no information about this specific car with the Coca Cola livery.

Also to save a thread, how many different privateers bought a Porsche 956 from 1982-1987? So I would like to know how many possible different liveries that the Porsche 956 sportscar had.

Thank you. :)

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#2 theunions

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 03:30

As Twinny could promptly tell you, that's Jo Gartner's sole IMSA-winning car - the Bob Akin Sebring winner from '85 (IIRC).

#3 TheStranger

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 05:16

Originally posted by theunions
As Twinny could promptly tell you, that's Jo Gartner's sole IMSA-winning car - the Bob Akin Sebring winner from '85 (IIRC).


Actually, it was 1986 - the last ever race using the full airfield. This was actually a Porsche 962 (the 956 was never allowed in IMSA, so Porsche had to create the 962 to comply to safety regulations stateside). The other co-driver was Hans Stuck, the only one of the three who is still living today.

962.com has a complete database of current and former owners of 956s and 962s.

Another good resource for photos is the GTP superthread I've started over at the Crapwagon.com Champcar forum, complete with lots of good memories:

http://www.champcarf...ead.php?t=21072

And of course there's racingsportscars.com...

#4 Twin Window

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 10:45

I hope that article mentioned the 1984 Dallas Kremer 956 livery, as designed by yours truly!

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Regarding Jo winning at Sebring, the off-track highlight of that weekend for him was getting asked for his ID as he tried to enter a nightclub! He was 32 at the time...

#5 jcbc3

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 11:48

My favourite all-time livery was the Obermeier pinstripes.




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#6 Nordic1

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 11:55

Charles Ivey

This is my Favorite, the Chales Ivey 956 from 84.

#7 TheStranger

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 12:50

Originally posted by Twin Window
I hope that article mentioned the 1984 Dallas Kremer 956 livery, as designed by yours truly!

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Wow, nice car (I HAVE seen it before, but never knew you designed it)! What is/was "Dallas" anyway?


Regarding Jo winning at Sebring, the off-track highlight of that weekend for him was getting asked for his ID as he tried to enter a nightclub! He was 32 at the time...


You can bet Mr. Akin didn't have to go through that, on the other hand... :smoking:

#8 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 13:45

Some years ago, there was an article in MotorSport including a lot of pictures with the different liveries of the 956/962. Shame I don't remember exactly when.

#9 Twin Window

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 16:52

Originally posted by TheStranger

Wow, nice car (I HAVE seen it before, but never knew you designed it)! What is/was "Dallas" anyway?

As I've mentioned this before, I've rather lazily copied it here! A brand called 'Dallas' had been registered as a cigarette and a soft drink by a sister company in the same group as the magazine I was with at the time, Grand Prix International. There were some unusual things going on at the time... er, not sure how much I can say. I'll keep some back for other times, I think, but suffice to say that GPI were involved with Rothmans in a big way, and through that link came the GPI-'sponsored' 1000kms races in the UK. That was all paid for by Rothmans, as was the magazine's 'sponsorship' of the British S2000 championship.

Through that link we got to know David Sutherland quite well, and when he paid for a seat with Kremer for '84 he came to us. In a nutshell, he didn't want to be obviously seen as a pay-driver in a virgin white car, so we agreed to pay him 3 grand for Silverstone - for the whole car! By the end of the weekend it was extended to Le Mans and Brands. That's how using Dallas came about, and essentially I had a free hand so I went ahead and did the lot; the 956, patches for overalls etc, and David's helmet too.

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As an amusing aside, I'd arranged for Doug Eyre to go over to Kremer's in order to oversee the application of the scheme on the car and once there he rang to tell me that when Erwin and Manfred first saw the design they said it was the best livery they'd ever had on one of their cars, and got so excited that they immediately sent a staffer off to the shops to buy new shirts and trousers for the entire team to match! That was nice.

Prior to that, I designed the livery of the works Alexis FF1600s and the team's transporter in 1975, and later on I designed the colour scheme of the 1982 ATS.

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I did a few helmets too. For 1982 I redesigned Jo Gartner's livery, which was using the Austrian red & white on a blue backgound. Basiclly I smartened it up and made it more aggressive-looking and distinctive. It was slightly altered again for '84.

Eddie Jordan asked my to design a livery for Johnny Herbert at the start of '88. He said he'd bung me £50 if I did it quickly. I took the designs back to Silverstone the next day for approval, and after a few mods got the ok. Kenny Acheson then took the design with him to Japan and handed them over to Shoei. They duly lost them, but from what they and Kenny remembered drew it again. The first verion, IIRC, was dayglo yellow/black/white, which was wrong, and the yellow was then changed to red for the next race. They did a pretty good job of recreating my design from their combined memories, and Johnny used it from 1988 up until he joined Stewart, or thereabouts, when he ruined it!. Oh, and needless to say, EJ never paid me my fifty quid...

I did Eliseo Salazar's design for 1987 and then again in 1996 - which he's used, with a couple of slight mods on the way, ever since.

#10 troyf1

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 17:06

To this day I still think the Rothmans 956 is one of the most gorgeous cars ever to grace a racetrack:

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#11 TheStranger

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 21:43

Thanks for the story, TW! :D

The question remains: Were any "Dallas" products (the soda and cigarettes) ever actually produced, or was it a brand name that would end being only used for...sponsoring a race car?

#12 EvilPhil

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 22:16

how did they go from this

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to this :|

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#13 dmj

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 21:28

It would take very much skill and determination to make any livery looking unatractive on such well-balanced looking cars as 956 and 962.

#14 Twin Window

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 02:07

Originally posted by TheStranger

Thanks for the story, TW! :D

The question remains: Were any "Dallas" products (the soda and cigarettes) ever actually produced, or was it a brand name that would end being only used for...sponsoring a race car?

Chris, the honest answer is I don't know for sure if any product actually saw the light of day. From memory, Dallas as a cigarette brand was registered in Japan, and Dallas as a soda brand was registered in the US. In both cases, capitalising on the popularity of the US 'drama' series of the same name. Maybe even as a 'spoiler' for all I know - at the time there was an awful lot going on in the group, within which GPI magazine was merely a member. Certainly at Silverstone for the 1000 Kms it was used as a tease to the press whereby we weren't allowed to comment on any such questions, which was quite amusing. Come Le Mans and Brands Hatch, I forget whether that still applied.

What I do know is that some cigarette packets had been made, because that's all I had for a typeface and colour reference! They were flat and 'unconstructed' packs, the size you'd get 20 cigs in - so (once again) I had to start from miniature...

Even though I used 'artistic licence' in adopting the asymetrical pack design to go on the 956, I stayed true to the brand colours. Like I said, the Kremers really liked the livery but it was only a three race deal with Sutherland, so when they went to Mosport, instead of doing the normal thing and using another entire set of bodywork, they painted the base colour black - presumably Sperry's house colour!

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As for the ATS, I designed that livery in Eliseo's Maidenhead flat one evening with TM Peter Collins on hand to pre-empt probable future objections from Manfred W and Gunther Schmidt, as I was trying to do the best for Copec and Viceroy on Eliseo's behalf! A bit frustrating, therefore, having so many interests to consider which limited my scope considerably.

#15 TheStranger

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 04:07

You know, you posting about that 956 makes me wonder...if you still have the photos of your hand-made BOSS stickers on that LeMans car in 1987-88 or so...that story was pretty good too :clap: :up:

Did you ever do any other GTP/Group C paintschemes?

And a little aside: One thing I wondered about Mosport...looking at Racingsportscars.com, it was an IMSA event in the early early 80s/late 1970s, but then became FIA after some time. (It is now ALMS isn't it?)

What set about the sanctioning change - the same factors that led to the FIA WSC not including Daytona after 1981?

#16 Spitfire

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 04:38

Well this doesn't beat the simple beauty of the Dallas car, but I always liked the design:

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#17 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 05:41

Hell, there've been a lot of liveries on the 956/962....

I can't even limit it to a "top 10" - so here's a "top 25" in roughly chronological order..... those that haven't already been pictured here can be found in many places... (racingsportscars.com is about the best!)


Rothmans - simple and still the first thing that comes to mind when I think 956.
Any of the Marlboro ones - such a simple, powerful colour scheme, although the "wordless" '83 Imola Johansson/Wollek car is a beauty.
Any of the Joest "New Man" liveries - I think white/black/yellow is a great livery, whether on a Porsche, a 70s/80s Renault or a 1980s Minardi!
RLR/GTI red/white Canon - always looked great
Obermaier's '83-4 variations on Boss pinstriping - black/white or turquoise/blue/white
Charles Ivey - 1984 Le Mans #22 silver/white/black Rollei cameras - very classy and simple
"Dallas" 1984 white + stripes - simple and distinctive.
Works 962/001 in virgin white at Daytona, 84
Bob Akin, Coke red/white, 1984-86 - a livery that should be emulated on many more cars. Got messy in '87 with Yokohama
Hulbert Loewenbrau white/blue, 1984-5 - very simple
BF Goodrich red/white/blue, 1985 IMSA - effective and elegant
Bayside Disposal (Leven?) 1985 - blue/white/red - prosaic but showed off the sponsor well, and looked good as it morphed into Bridgestone later.
Joest "Spirit of America", Le Mans '86. Obvious but great fun
Kremer Kenwood black, '86. - as good as works virgin white! The '87 white/red was horrid.
Kremer Leyton House turquoise - as good on a 962 as it was on a March F3000 or F1.
Works red/yellow Shell -- bold, classy and unmistakeable.
Holbert/Busby Miller gold/white from '88 - matches the sponsor's brand well and looked incredibly classy
for a car sponsored by gassy near-beer!
Foyt/Copenhagen - simple, clean, and very clearly reminiscent of both owner and sponsor.
Dauer spotty Tic-Tac - 89 on.... witty and gets the product across, looks good on the car
Brun/Hydro Aluminium blue/yellow - simple, strong, matched the brand well and looked very bright and distinctive on track
Momo red/yellow (DRM Supercup and IMSA) from '89 - the Momo livery always sits well on sports racers.
Hotchkiss/Wynn's dark blue from 1990 - after years of dogs' breakfast liveries they finally got it right!
Kremer red Bosch/Shell - 1990 - almost unsponsored but god that car looked evil!
Dauer black/yellow Havoline, 1991 - sinister, simple.
Obermaier "24 heures du Mans" 1993 - pity they didn't give it race number 24 though wasn't it?



Actually I think the best-looking GpC Porsche ever wasn't a 956 or 962 but the Richard Cleare plain red CK5.... looked very exotic and Italian!;)

#18 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 05:45

Originally posted by EvilPhil
how did they go from this

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to this :|

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The simple answer is that a Group C car is an elegant, functional piece of engineering - and the modern (since the early 90s anyway) F1 car is a hunchbacked dwarf -- and you can't polish a turd ;) There are no obvious places for colour schemes to break, no obvious lines for them to follow, and too many aerodynamic excrescences and pustules to actually do anything good with a colour scheme. And, of course, you need more money than any small number of sponsors can provide - hence the virtual "shopping lists" on even well-funded modern F1 cars.

The last time I looked at an F1 car and thought "damn, that livery's good" was one of the earlier Prosts....


#19 TheStranger

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 07:28

Okay, my personal favorites of the 956/962 (so far!) -

The original 962: That all-white works Porsche for the Andrettis, despite not winning at Daytona (but taking the pole first time out), is a stunner as it shows the car's natural lines with a hint of subtlety. Kinda like a Group 44 Jaguar. I wonder if Zuffenhausen still has this in-house...

Bob Akin's Coke cars: No other way to put it, another simple but beautiful livery, just one Coca-Cola swoop (or three) and the whole thing was set.

Preston Henn's Swap Shop at LeMans 1984 (Rondeau/Henn/Paul Jr.): Another simple orange outline/black look, but the blend was striking. A lot better than the 1985 Sebring 962 (all-red car for Wollek/Foyt), although the Valvoline Swap Shop cars were pretty nice.

Dyson 962 (any year) - No matter what year it was, or what sponsor (Bud/Dyson/etc.), it always seemed to work perfectly.

Rothmans Porsche: How can anyone not like this?

1983 Kenwood Porsche: Another Andretti father/son car, the all-blue Kenwood look has a glossier feel than the later black cars (although those are definitely not half bad).

Fitzpatrick 1983 BP car: A strange paintscheme, perhaps, but the odd swoops seem to work on a car this classy.

I wonder how many of you guys have the Papyrus racing simulation NASCAR 2003...the Team Redline group is developing a GTP/Group C mod and it shouldn't be long before it comes out (I'm anticipating it in 3 weeks or so, maybe less). Would be fun to recreate all these cars for it...

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#20 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 17:09

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:cool:

#21 biercemountain

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 17:15

Originally posted by bigears
The Porsche 956 car is my favourite sportscar and about to embark a collection of diecast models of the sportcar very soon.


Senna drove a 956 during his one and only sportscar race which I believe is available in 1/43 scale. Anybody remember the livery of that car? I seem to recall it being yellow.

#22 dmj

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 17:20

Look at these two posts upwards! An answer before the question!!! :lol:

#23 Frank S

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 19:05

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#24 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 19:39

Originally posted by Frank S
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Very nice but isn't it a March?;) (Admittedly a March-Porsche ;))


#25 Frank de Jong

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 19:52

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
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:cool:


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:cool: :cool:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

#26 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 20:03

Originally posted by Frank de Jong


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:cool: :cool:

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Hmmm - different slipcase to my TATS - what's a red slipcase signify?;)

#27 Twin Window

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 20:10

Frank - the wiper has fallen off your Joest model and is resting by the Pierlant logo. Don't feed it to the vacuum cleaner...! :wave:

TATS? :confused:

#28 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 20:24

TATS = Time And Two Seats.

My edition has a red slip case - I presumed they all had - oh well....

#29 Frank de Jong

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 20:54

Tat's correct, mine is sort of dark red. Don't tell Janos that I use it as a monitor stand for the time being...

Twinny, the wiper has fallen off, but so did the right rear view mirror. I suspect Lammers tried to outbrake the Joest car :lol:
Both are safe now; I'll repair it when my site is ready :|

#30 petefenelon

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 21:31

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Tat's correct, mine is sort of dark red. Don't tell Janos that I use it as a monitor stand for the time being...

Twinny, the wiper has fallen off, but so did the right rear view mirror. I suspect Lammers tried to outbrake the Joest car :lol:
Both are safe now; I'll repair it when my site is ready :|



Errrr so does mine actually - I could've sworn it matched the covers of the volumes ;)



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#31 TheStranger

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 22:26

Originally posted by petefenelon


Very nice but isn't it a March?;) (Admittedly a March-Porsche ;))


Sometimes a March-Chevy, depending on what part of the year it was.;)

That Holbert/Trueman March was only I think the second true prototype in the GTP era (in IMSA) after the Lola T600...dunno where the Chevron GTP fit.

#32 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 22:43

Rothmans Porsche changed the livery from 1982 to 1983 upon request of Rothmans in ZA.
The "Rothmans" logo changed from All-Caps to Upper-Lower-case, and the stripes kept on flowing until the end of the car, not merely wrap-around.
Yes, the most "elegant" livery in sports-car history IMO .

#33 Frank S

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 02:04

Originally posted by petefenelon


Very nice but isn't it a March?;) (Admittedly a March-Porsche ;))

They all look the same to me. Except for their livers.

--
Frank S

#34 TheStranger

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 03:41

Originally posted by Frank S
They all look the same to me. Except for their livers.

--
Frank S


Noses of the 956/962 and March are VERY different though:

From the marchives, the Red Lobster March 83G:

http://www.marchives...utosport80s.htm

Compare to this example of the 962 on a Riverside program cover, in this case, a Dyson-owned vehicle:

http://home.san.rr.c...f/coverst07.htm

#35 zac510

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 09:50

What about the Bob Jane T-marts livery of the 'all-aussie' entry in, was it 84?
Not exactly a pretty one, but one for the list nonetheless :)

#36 TheStranger

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 10:22

Actually, that T-Marts car doesn't seem too bad looking:

http://racingsportsc...4-06-17-034.jpg

#37 TheStranger

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:32

The templates for the GTP mod for the NASCAR 2003 simulation are out...

http://www.teamredli...topic.php?t=889

and after seeing this thread I just HAD to make this, I hope you like it Twin Window:

;)

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#38 Twin Window

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:36

That looks great, Chris! If I were to be picky, I'd mention that your creation looks like it's based on a much later version of their 962 with that rear wing, ducting and headlights - the 1988/9 Kenwood car, maybe?

But the effect is still super!

#39 TheStranger

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:43

Originally posted by Twin Window
That looks great, Chris! If I were to be picky, I'd mention that your creation looks like it's based on a much later version of their 962 with that rear wing, ducting and headlights. But the effect is still super!


Actually, there's a specific reason that you're not seeing the attached-tail, straight lights, etc.:

The modelers had already created the first four bodies (Toyota, TWR Jaguar, Mazda 787, and the Sauber C9) when they decided to add the 956/962 (attached-tail) but software problems prevented them from overcoming the original Papyus hardcoing of only four usable chassis makes.

Thus the car you're seeing is actually a Toyota body fudged to look like somewhat of a 956, and the Sauber will also have to make do as a "Kremer 962" from the early 90s, Category 2 type deal.

Either way, this is one mod I have been waiting for. And speaking of 956s...

Wonder what you think about my renditions of these two other period pieces:

http://img45.exs.cx/...26swap3d1cm.jpg

http://img53.exs.cx/...enwood3d4oy.jpg

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#40 Twin Window

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:47

They all look fabulous! :up:

#41 TheStranger

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:50

Originally posted by Twin Window
They all look fabulous! :up:


Thank you :clap:

Wonder which one I should do next...I am extremely tempted to tackle the Fitzpatrick superteam trio from LeMans 1983 (the JDavid, BP/Swap Shop, and Skoal Bandit 956s) with its side-swoops...either way, essentially my goal is to create a bunch of nice vintage era paintschemes for the simmers out there, especially early 80s liveries...

#42 jcbc3

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 12:50

I wish Vincenzo Lancia was around to post here (Danish guy, Svend 'something'). He made the most awesome photoshop pictures with old paintschemes on new cars. I even think his avatar was a 90'ies Lotus in green and yellow. He posted the original full size at DF1 some years ago.

#43 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 17:17

Originally posted by jcbc3
I wish Vincenzo Lancia was around to post here (Danish guy, Svend 'something'). He made the most awesome photoshop pictures with old paintschemes on new cars. I even think his avatar was a 90'ies Lotus in green and yellow. He posted the original full size at DF1 some years ago.


I concur.

He also had a "series" of current drivers in 1950ies machinery.

There is a Vincenzo here on Atlas, could he be the one??

I think we should be told.

:cool:

#44 John B

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 19:29

The Holbert Lowenbrau IMSA dominator and the Coke car are my personal favorites.

Frustrating thread in one sense in that I miss those IMSA GTP battles, including the later Nissan vs. Jaguar showdowns :cool:

#45 fausto

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 20:27

the 1988 "No-Sponsor" Richard Lloyd Racing 962 "special"

http://img181.exs.cx...=962gti68mf.jpg

sorry, it's only a model....

#46 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 09:09

Originally posted by bigears
The Porsche 956 car is my favourite sportscar and about to embark a collection of diecast models of the sportcar very soon. Anyway I remember there was a great article in the Autosport magazine sometime last September/October (?) about a journalist explaining why he loves the Porsche 956 (962 as well?) and mentioned different liveries like Skoal Bandit, Rothmans, JDavid, Marlboro and so on.


When collecting 956 models search for Vitesse Die casts 1/43rd scale. They produced quite a lot with the decals separately not yet applied to them.

If you look for more versions a company called Starter (France) made a hole raft of resin kits of the 956 and 962. About 100+ kits. Happy collecting. Unfortunately this company went over in the hands of another company that went bankrupt last summer. The decals should be somewhere.

A company called Carpena has some after market decals in their programme.

Many other makes did the 956. So best of luck!

#47 Ivan

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:40

'03 Donington
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#48 Habu12

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 16:17

I hope that article mentioned the 1984 Dallas Kremer 956 livery, as designed by yours truly!

Posted Image

Regarding Jo winning at Sebring, the off-track highlight of that weekend for him was getting asked for his ID as he tried to enter a nightclub! He was 32 at the time...


Resurrection! I had to bring this thread back from the grave to ask if you're still around. This livery is fantastic, yet somehow has been missed by decal manufacturers in 1/24 scale. Do you still have any drawings of it?
Thanks!

#49 alansart

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 16:30

Resurrection! I had to bring this thread back from the grave to ask if you're still around.


He is, but limping a bit :)


#50 Habu12

Habu12
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Posted 06 May 2010 - 18:56

Ah sweet. Well hopefully he can help us out.