37 replies to this topic

[Stephane Lebiez]

I'm searching the nationality of following drivers :

Paul christianson (DNF at st jovite 1966)
C. Frederick (10th at edmonton 1970)
D. Saville-Peck (9th at mosport and mid-ohio 1974)
W. Morrow (10th at road atlanta 1974)

http://membres.lycos.fr/canam

[Jimmy Piget]

And what about Lothar Motschenbacher's ?

American ? Canadian ?

[wibblywobbly]

Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
And what about Lothar Motschenbacher's ?

American ? Canadian ?

Lothar Motschenbacher / USA

So says: http://www.classicsc...canam_home.html

[JacnGille]

David Saville-Peck - USA according to :
http://www.racingspo...6-16-photo.html

[sprite]

This is one of the rare occasions where the site "Racing Sportscars" is wrong. Note the maple leaf on the nose of the photo referred to. I am pretty sure he was born in England but Saville-Peck was, and still is, living in British Columbia, Canada and was always entered as "Canadian".

[JacnGille]

I thought David was from "north of the border" myself, but I never claimed to know everything...and am frequently proven correct in this regard.;)

[Canam45]

Hello. My name IS David Saville Peck! I was born in the UK and moved to Canada in 1972 to contest the Can Am series. I raced as a Canadian in North America. They appear to have it correct on the link of the previous listed below. I was badly burnt at Road America in my Can Am car in 1975, took up Kart racing at age 50 in 1995, and returned to the race track this year in one of our Caterham Super 7s after a 30 year hiatus at age 60...!!www.super7cars.com/Video/Mission.mov and www.super7cars.com/Video/Mission2.mov
I also returned to the Knox Mountain Hillclimb in Kelowna BC, 30 years after I had set the record there in 1975 in my Can Am car. I ran one of our road cars and finnished 2nd in FL with the 9th quickest time ever up the hill. http://www.super7car...oxHillclimb.mpg
I live on Vancouver Island and have my shop here where my son and I build our cars and service and restoration. www.ennerdale.ca and www.super7cars.com
For those of you who remember, John Cortds moved out here when he retired and lives two houses down. He has not changed!!
Someone sent me this great site of Can Am photos from Mid Ohio
http://www.yesterday...pages/CanAm.htm

"Racing is living, the rest is just waiting"

[Arjan de Roos]

Welcome at TNF David!!! It is wonderful you could reply in person to this thread. Can you tell us some of your experiences in CanAm in those days?? What was it like? Whom did you meet?

Did you meet Herbie Mueller? What do you recall on his Ferrari?

Do you recall the Shadow, the Porsche 917?

[Canam45]

Thank you for the Welcome. Herbie was a very good friend of mine and I had a sticker on the back of my car at Know Mountain from him and Peter Felder.(can't remember what it said though! It wasn't in English ) Herbie who?.........He would arrive at the tracks with his Ferrari on an open trailer behind his pick up truck and camper. He is greatly missed but died doing what he loved. Peter contacted me a few years ago and told me the circumstances. Herbie had sort of retired from driving, but against Peter's advice decided to have one more go...it was to be his last.
Mark Donahue, also became a close and private friend. He was an incredible engineer and to the detriment of his private life, he used to sleep at the workshop in Reading. I remember one occasion, when he was about to lap me for the umpteenth time, but for about three laps he just stayed behind me. After the race he came over to our pit, looked at the car and then said to me " David, you need to change the rear roll center and stiffen up the front roll bar and move the front splitter forward abit...........!!" He had stayed behind me to see how my car was behaving so he could point me in the right set up direction. He was killed the same weekend that I had my big one.
Another interesting story about the 917/30 - surely the best race car ever built? - was in 1974 when we were limited to a fuel tank size and the 917/30 was unable to race anywhere except Mid Ohio due to its fuel usage being too great at the other tracks. Brian Redman drove it, and on about his 3rd lap broke the outright lap record!! Brain was at Elkhart when I crashed in 1975, and phoned the Hospidal from Kyalami, were he was racing next, to see if I had made it!
There are so many stories to tell, but the lasting impression that I have of those days, was the fabulous people..........and it still is............most of the people who have such passion about cars and racing as I do, are the best in the World.

"Racing is living, the rest is just waiting"

[mwphoto]

David, saw you run at Mid-Ohio in 1973!

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Canam45
Thank you for the Welcome. Herbie was a very good friend of mine and I had a sticker on the back of my car at Know Mountain from him and Peter Felder.(can't remember what it said though! It wasn't in English ) Herbie who?.........He would arrive at the tracks with his Ferrari on an open trailer behind his pick up truck and camper. He is greatly missed but died doing what he loved. Peter contacted me a few years ago and told me the circumstances. Herbie had sort of retired from driving, but against Peter's advice decided to have one more go...it was to be his last.
Mark Donahue, also became a close and private friend. He was an incredible engineer and to the detriment of his private life, he used to sleep at the workshop in Reading. I remember one occasion, when he was about to lap me for the umpteenth time, but for about three laps he just stayed behind me. After the race he came over to our pit, looked at the car and then said to me " David, you need to change the rear roll center and stiffen up the front roll bar and move the front splitter forward abit...........!!" He had stayed behind me to see how my car was behaving so he could point me in the right set up direction. He was killed the same weekend that I had my big one.
Another interesting story about the 917/30 - surely the best race car ever built? - was in 1974 when we were limited to a fuel tank size and the 917/30 was unable to race anywhere except Mid Ohio due to its fuel usage being too great at the other tracks. Brian Redman drove it, and on about his 3rd lap broke the outright lap record!! Brain was at Elkhart when I crashed in 1975, and phoned the Hospidal from Kyalami, were he was racing next, to see if I had made it!
There are so many stories to tell, but the lasting impression that I have of those days, was the fabulous people..........and it still is............most of the people who have such passion about cars and racing as I do, are the best in the World.

"Racing is living, the rest is just waiting"

It's those kind of stories that make this place so worthwhile. Fantastic stuff. Welcome, David, and keep it coming!

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Canam45
Hello. My name IS David Saville Peck!

Welcome David but be warned that on TNF we can argue about almost anything.

For example, are you definitely David Saville Peck? Or are you David Saville-Peck? Is your surname Saville Peck or Saville-Peck or just plain Peck.

These things matter. Well, they matter to anoracs like us...

Allen

[Gokart Mozart]

Dear David,

I am currently doing some research for a future Can-Am drivers project covering the original 287(ish) drivers who competed in the Can-Am series from 1966-1974. Would I be able to contacting you privately about your tenure in the Can-Am and your thoughts on some of your fellow drivers?

Respectfully,

Jacques N. Dresang
Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin

[2F-001]

May I add a "welcome" to you also, David?
By some strange coincidence, only yesterday I came across a picture captioned as being you (on a web site linked-to from here on TNF) and also found your super7 site (linked-to from the California Caterham Club site). I've lately been driving a bike-engined Seven (not mine, unfortunately) so was interested in what you are doing.
I'm with the Lotus Seven Club here in the UK (I currently design and edit the Club magazine - I'd be interested in doing something on your "backstory" and the Seven scene around you... I appreciate that your time in CanAm has some memories you may not wish to rake over, but CanAm racing still has a big 'buzz' to it for petrolheads over here, even among some of those too young to remember it -- maybe I should email you off-line about that, though).

Love the Donohue story, although somehow it doesn't surprise me. He has always been something of a racing hero for me, or, at least, as much as I subscribe to such notions. I remember reading something of Brian Redman's race in the 917-30; it was siad that the Penske outfit were particularly concerned about excess wheelspin out of the slower corners or from putting a wheel in the dirt, so tight was the fuel consumption.

I'm sure your contributions here will be warmly received.

[Magee]

Here's a recent photo of David (left) on the podium at Mission Raceways last August . His Super 7 first overall and first in class. Mike Kaerne was second in his Royale.




Here's another photo showing David in the middle of an animated post-race discussion, his car in the foreground.

[Canam45]

My name? Well, my passport and birth certificate say "Saville Peck" but when I came to Canada, seems the beaurocrats couldn't handle that so my driving license says "Saville-Peck".......go figure?

"Racing is living, the rest is just waiting"

[Allen Brown]

So even the documentation doesn't agree!

I have a more sensible question too. You raced the Costello SP7 in Can-Am in 1973 and the Costello SP8 in Can-Am in 1974 but what was the Costello you drove at the Rothmans 50,000 at Brands Hatch in August 1972?

thanks

Allen

[Canam45]

SP7 was the 1st chassis we had made by Grand Prix Metalcraft. We built the car with Barry Shepard and Mike Rawlings in Dover of Rawlson. This car I ran in the Rothamns 50,000. (terrible as we had so much bump steer that the thing was undriveable!) Part of the deal with them - Rawlson - was that they also built a 2 liter car that used the same monoquoe. This car was called a "Rawlson" and was run in the UK by Mick Yoemans in Cona Coffee colours. Gerry Marshal also drove it. That car finally finished up here on Vancouver Island!! with Tom Munro. He then sold the car to Ian Woods in Vancouver last year who has now put a V8 in it, changed the bodywork and now it is a Rawlson Can Am -"Costello" look alike! Ian runs it in the Historic class?? Not really quite right if you ask me!
SP7 I wrote off in a huge crash at Laguna in 73. I had a new chassis SP8 in the UK that GP Matalcraft had just finnished, got it flown out to Vancouver, took it with me as "baggage" to LA, and two weeks after the crash, I qualified SP8 for the Times GP at Riverside. Unfortunatly we hadn't crack tested the steering arms and one broke sending me into the bank! The car was quite fixable but as I already had broken ribs from the Laguna shunt, the Docs wouldn't let me race....
The turn workers at Riverside put a sticker on the car that said "You crash, we dash"..........!!
SP8 was destroyed in the big one at Road America in 75, but I had made a new chassis here on Vancouver Island but never built it up into a complete car. All my Can Am parts, I traded to Micheal Rigby in Vancouver in about 1986 for an Aston DB4 Vantage.(ex George Abacassis, David Brown's son in law of HWM Motors, Reg# PG 7) The Costello is now in the UK with John Goldsmith, who is very slowly putting it back together for the new owners to whom Micheal Rigby sold it. The Aston I sold to a guy in Toronto. So there you go..............

There are a couple of pictures here www.ennerdale.ca/images/canam that I have just upload and there is a section on the Costello and me in Pete Lyon's book "Can Am"

"Racing is living, the rest is just waiting"

[Allen Brown]

Thanks very much David

[JSF]

welcome David.

It's great to hear stories from those involved in the CanAm races, my day job is race preparing and then running at the races a couple of CanAm cars in Supersports, at Goodwood, and series such as Gentleman Drivers, which still enjoy the spirit of the original days with great people all enjoying the racing, we currently run a McLaren M1B and March 707/717. It's listening to the stories of the original CanAm days that gave me the enthusiasm to get involved in these cars, they are just awesome machines.

Can you tell us what the SP9 is? The engine in that looks very familiar, unless i am very much mistaken that's using Ian Richardson's Wildcat engineering heads and Ians fuel injection inlet manifold. I built the first prototype Wildcat engine with Ian back in 1996 and am now involved in running his latest 6 litre in a special saloon Esprit.

You live in a beautiful part of the world, i have competed in one of your local to BC events a few times, the Thunderbird rally, based up in Merrit in the depths of winter. If you arn't aware of this event you may find it huge fun for a winter driving adventure.

[Martin Krejci]

Dear David,

it is great to hear from you at the forum. I like your stories, especially the one, when Mark Donohue ran three laps behind you ...

I would like to ask you about chassis numbers of the two Costellos. Were they simply just SP7 and SP8 or was there some more traditional chassis number format, for example SP7-001 and SP8-002?

Best wishes,

Martin

PS: Also a question for Allen: I can't find any reference to the 1972 Brands Hatch race that you mentioned. Could you, please, send some information about it.

[st59cz]

Rothmans 50000 was special FLibre race. Here started versatile Formula cars against sport cars in big distance for big money

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Martin Krejci
PS: Also a question for Allen: I can't find any reference to the 1972 Brands Hatch race that you mentioned. Could you, please, send some information about it.

Martin

It's this race.

Allen

[Martin Krejci]

Thank you, Allen. Interesting race but I can see that sportscars were pretty outpaced...:-). That's probably why I have never heard of it.

Martin

[Allen Brown]

Returning to the original topic of this thread:

Originally posted by Stephane Lebiez
I'm searching the nationality of following drivers :

Paul christianson (DNF at st jovite 1966)
C. Frederick (10th at edmonton 1970)
D. Saville-Peck (9th at mosport and mid-ohio 1974)
W. Morrow (10th at road atlanta 1974)

http://membres.lycos.fr/canam

One down, three to go.

C. E. "Chuck" Frederick drove a McKee "Mk 8" at Riverside and Elkhart Lake in Formula 5000 in 1970/71 and this may have been a conversion of the "Mk 6B" he drove in Can-Am (Edmonton but also at Brainerd 27 Sep 1970). I'd be pretty confident he was American but the Elkhart Lake entry lists doesn't give his home town.

I haven't heard of Paul Christianson but "W. Morrow" would be Lola racer Bill (William) Morrow.

Allen

[Gokart Mozart]

Dear Allen,

I shall check tonight, as I think I have the homehowns of these individuals at home in my Can-Am directory list...

Until then!

Respectfully,

Jacques N. Dresang
Eagle #7225

[Allen Brown]

Hi Jacques

How is that list coming along? It's over a year since I last saw it and I'd be happy to have a go at filling some gaps.

Allen

[Stefan Ornerdal]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Martin Krejci
PS: Also a question for Allen: I can't find any reference to the 1972 Brands Hatch race that you mentioned. Could you, please, send some information about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin

It's this race.

Allen


Martin, Allen,

I have also this race at my page:
http://www.formula2.net/F272_A.htm

Definitely not as good as Allens, but anyway... there was F2-cars!

Kind regards
Stefan

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
Definitely not as good as Allens, but anyway...

Don't be so modest. Your site - like Martin's - is one of the very best.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

David S-P

Welcome to TNF. I saw you drive in the Mosport Can Am in...well, way back. Your relatively diminutive car was quite memorable. The late Peter Murdock was doing the race comentary from the hairpin for the event and during qualifying, you wouldn't have believed your ears to hear him giving you a bigger and bigger build up as you prepared for a timed run. If his will power would have prevailed, you'd have had pole! Like you had a chance against the Turbo Panzers.

John Cordts? One of my early heroes as I remember him from way back in his Gorrie's Corvette days. I'll never forget his drive in the 1969 Mosport Can Am. Remarkable. Give him my best.

[sprite]

Mr. Saville Peck,
Thankyou for your posts. Many of us admired your spirit in the old Can Am, something about cheering for the underdog I guess. Anyway, it's good to hear you are still doing well.

[Martin Krejci]

Dear Allen and Stefan,

thank you very much for both your results set. I've used both but I am not sure if you aware of some differences (entrants's names, some race numbers and even few entries).

Best wishes,

Martin

[Allen Brown]

Hmm. See what you mean. Well, Gerry Birrell wouldn't have been as high on the entry list as #4; that was Ganley's F1 car. The disqualifications are a stylistic issue so I'm not bothered about those being different. I'd have to check McKay's entry number.

Some entrants differ but FIRST and Felday Eng were effectively the same entity; Impact Group was a sponsor of Team Impact McLaren, Lec was presumably the sponsor of Space Racing's operation and so on. I'm not sure about Roberta Cowell as the entrant of the Kitchiner but she was involved in some way. One publication may have talked about Impact Group's McLaren and another may have mentioned a Team Impact McLaren entry so I can see how this could have happened. Both are right.

Down in the DNQs and DNPs we have some differences too but they're not major. There was a thread a while ago that unearthed a lot of the detail around the qualifying race and the non-arrivals. I got quite a lot of extra information from that for my results but I may have missed a few things. Whether a car was a 'T' or a 'DNS' is also a stylistic issue.

Stefan - have you got the energy to go through the differences or is this something we can safely put off to another day?

Allen

[Martin Krejci]

Dear Allen & Stefan,

I've noted few differences but not all:

no.5 Worldwide Racing x John Player Team Lotus
no.6 Team Williams x Frank Williams Racing Cars
etc. later I just used Allen's teams as a reference since he seemed to have less gaps and I decide to use just one source. I know it is not sometime possible to get exact entrant's name as I have some races where several official documents sometimes shows different (or quite different) entrant's name.

Ronald McKay - no. 37 or 39? (I've used 39)

no.66 - I would say that full name would be Mallock U2 Mk 11 Ford (none of you have this in that form, but I am not sure if name Mallock was used by then...). Stefan's Supercharged ? seems to be confirmed by Allen's data.

no.43 - completely missing by Allen

37,38 - engine size 1.9 x 2.0

47 Jack Paterson - missing in Stefan's list I think

59 - McLaren Special - was it 6.5 or 6.8?

Chris Craft - number 16 or 62 (but both were used by other drivers...)

Not sure if following cars were present or practiced but they seems not to be in Allen's entry (while Stefan has them as second option):

DNS McLaren M14 - Chevrolet V8 (Tony Dean)
DNS Chevron B24 - Chevrolet V8 (Ashley)

no.2 DNA - M19C or M19A


So that are major differences except for entrants. I hope I didn't include there some more by my mistake :-). If you agreed on a 'more probably' (or correct) version, please, keep me informed too:-)

Best wishes,

Martin

[Allen Brown]

OK, let's knock off the easy ones.

Entrants names such as Worldwide Racing x John Player Team Lotus and Team Williams x Frank Williams Racing Cars depend on whether you want to record the generally accepted name of the team or the actual wording on the entry papers. I try to reflect what's on the entry form but will put the actual team in square brackets after it where it's relevant - e.g. "Sugaripe Prune [O'Connell Racing]".

I left out Vern Schuppan#s #43 entry deliberately as I was pretty confident it was a typo in one report and his #42 March 722 was duplicated. He only had one March 722 so I could see little point in listing it twice.

The engines in the ASCA Brabhams were built for the 2-litre F2 but their actual capacity was 1.9-litre. Again, they may have been entered as 2-litres but had they turned up their engines would have been found to be 1.9s. This is always difficult with DNAs as cars are often entered as something they are not. When they turn up, it's justifiable to change the description to what they actually are (my results web page has a note to that effect); when they don't it's a harder decision.

Allen

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Stefan - have you got the energy to go through the differences or is this something we can safely put off to another day?

Yes, surely I have the energy, but not right now, I am about to moving house and all that...

My main sources for this race was a thread here at TNF and a web-site with a scan of the entry-list. Strange - now, I can't find none of them!
The third main source was Allen's site...

Allen,
thanks for your kind words - encouragement (spelling?) from one of the heavy-weighters of the motor-racing research society really feels good...

Martin (another heavy-weighter!),
stick to Allen's conclutions!
Did you get the scans of Swedish Championship tables for sportscars?


Kind regards
Stefan

[Martin Krejci]

Did you get the scans of Swedish Championship tables for sportscars?

Stefan, I don't remember to get anything like that. I would always confirm anything you sent me. Could you, please, re-send it again?

Martin


PS: Allen, thank you for your easy ones anwers. As for me, I always try to use (similarly as you) entrants as given on the entry forms.

[Gokart Mozart]

Dear Allen,

Unfortunately, I was premature in my thoughts of the three "unknown origin" drivers...my bad!

My project has gone day-by-day with school and everything else going on, but I have talked with the following drivers/spokesmen/wives:

Sterling Moss
Mike Hiss
Leonard Janke
Jim Butcher
Melissa Minter
David Hobbs

Soon will follow...time is just a thing that has been lacking in the past year!

Respectfully,

Jacques N. Dresang
UEMSI Motorwerks
Eagle #7225