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#1 Racers Edge

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 01:08

OLD STORY (TRUE?) ..OLD MOVIE IDEA?....TRIED ONCE & TWICE, ...NEW FUTURE RACING FILM?

"Mon Ami Mate"

(or)

The FERRARI BOYS...(Interesting???)

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So, is it really "block buster" movie material / could it work?

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#2 RTH

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:18

Is there a serious proposal in the works to turn this story in to a film ?

#3 Racers Edge

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:25

Hello Richard,

Thats right, I understand it was orginially started a few years back but ran out of funding. But some investors are looking into it again.
That's all I know for now. I personally think with the right actors, and script and tons of $$$ it might be a winner...who knows? Tough business.

#4 Stephen W

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:53

Unfortunately they will probably cast a couple of American dorks as Hawthorn and Collins!

It will be set in New England in the present day and they will be driving Indy Cars. Otherwise it will be true to the story. Well when I say true Hawthorn will win Indy and Collins will be killed at Pike's Peak. Finally the part of Enzo Ferrari will probably be played by Robert de Niro - well he is Italian!

It all sounds too good to be true! :yawn:

#5 petefenelon

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 11:32

Originally posted by Stephen W
Unfortunately they will probably cast a couple of American dorks as Hawthorn and Collins!
Finally the part of Enzo Ferrari will probably be played by Robert de Niro - well he is Italian!

It all sounds too good to be true! :yawn:



...although I think you may have something there, as De Niro ages I think he'd make a superb Ferrari of the 50s/60s..... mind you I'd watch Scorsese directing De Niro reading the phone book.

#6 Racers Edge

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 11:50

BELOW IS A QUOTE SENT TO ME ABOUT THE IDEAS FOR ACTORS ETC. I ALSO UNDERSTAND MANY OF THE PROPS HAVE BEEN MADE REF: FERRARI DINO F1 CARS...SO DON'T WORRY THEY WON'T BE DRIVING INDYCARS AT PIKES PEAK, I THINK THE SCRIPT (THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN YET) IS BASED ON THEIR LIVES DURING THE 1950'S RACING SEASON EG: MON AMI MATE BOOK / CHRIS NIXON....
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To cast a currently hot Brit name, like Orlando Bloom or Jude Law, would dramatically increase the budget (Law currently commands between $7 and $10 million for a lead role, Bloom not far behind). Hugh Grant, who at one time I considered, is now too old (commands in excess of $10 million). Paul Bettany (A Knight's Tale, A Beautiful Mind, Master and Commander, Wimbledon), who I also considered for one of the young leads, has suddenly become very hot in the States and would also now be beyond what's allocated in the attached budget.

I would propose going with two up-and-coming young actors for the leads, and surround them with stars (like Anthony Hopkins as Enzo Ferrari) in cameo roles. Much more cost effective and, ultimately, just as potent with the right choice of actor.
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#7 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 11:50

Sorry its not what the people want at this time but with the performance of Sir A. Hopkins in the 'Worlds Fastest Indian' then maybe .............

#8 Keir

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 14:08

Oh ye of little faith!! :(

If someone of true producing ability got his or her hands on this project, it would fly!!

#9 Philip Whiteman

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 14:20

How does Mike and Peter's story work as a screenplay? I mean, yes - you've got the early struggle to gain recognition, tempered by Mike's old man dying in a road accident (similarly half his other mates - see Challenge Me the Race) then they end up in the same team, with other Brits as their main rivals, Musso dies, Peter dies, Mike wins a hollow-feeling championship and - wallop - he's dead at 28 in a road accident.

Hardly works as a feel-good drama and, even as a weepie, it has the major snag in that they all end up dead.

#10 Keir

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 14:37

Remember Butch and Sundance??

Still one of my favorite movies!

......and Peter and Mike were the thing of legend!

#11 Macca

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 16:20

Does anybody else remember seeing a photograph of replica 1958 F1s under construction at the time the film was first mooted, about 1994?

or am I having a Senior Moment? (yet again!)

There was also, at about the same time and possibly not unconnected, a kit-car replica 250F with Alfa mechanicals announced...........does that ring any bells?



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#12 RS2000

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 16:28

I can certainly remember reading about replicas being built for the film.

#13 Stephen W

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 17:26

They are probably all racing in the Historics by now! :rotfl:

#14 Racers Edge

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 17:48

DOES THE BELOW NAME AND FIRM RING A BELL TO ANYONE?
I UNDERSTAND THEY MADE 2 FERRARI DINOS FOR THE FILM.
I THINK THEY ALSO BUILD KIT CARS?

[Bob Egginton, of ASD (Automotive Systems Developments) Ltd.]

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THESE ARE REAL....ANYONE HAVE PHOTOS OF THE REPLICAS?

#15 David McKinney

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 19:19

No, but somewhere I've got a picture of a (the?) ASD 250F
Don't think it ws made for the film, though

BTW, are you sure both those Dinos are factory-built, RE?

#16 Simpson RX1

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 22:59

What a film that would make, but would anyone watch it?

Rock legend Chris Rea went to the extent of making replica Sharknoses for "Il Passione", but I never saw the film advertised or have ever seen a video/dvd copy, so would it sell?

A bit OT, but who would you cast in the lead roles?

And also, has anyone here ever seen the above mentioned film..........is it worth my while trying to seek out a copy?

#17 KJJ

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 23:17

I would have thought that the most commercial way for this film to work would be to concentrate on the relationship between Collins and Louise King, and she has the plus points of being a) an American and b) an actress. The Collins/Hawthorn relationship would have to be a sub-plot. Sorry rivet counters, but at least the wife will enoy it. :lol:

#18 Peter Morley

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 09:09

There might have been two projects to make this film at the time?

I'm pretty sure that Bob Egginton told me he was working on cars for the film (and might have mentioned the other project) - he finished a 250F, that I think ended up in the Midlands, he also started on a Vanwall - I saw the body buck there and it was huge!

Around the same time he built an Aston DBR replica.
With all of them he would have used similar types of engines to the original - e.g. the Dino would be a Ford V6 (that would be 2.6 or 2.8 litres?) so that the exhausts etc come out in the right places. Vanwall engine is easy, being a straight 4, and the 250F was a straight 6 (possibly Italian - can't remember what though). I think the Aston DBR was based on Aston DB road car mechanics.

If the film actually had some decent racing in it - so that you can see that these cars were capable of 160 mph, that would be spectacular enough to get the audience excited.
The problem is most racing films look like a bunch of old cars pottering along slowly (which is what most people think they did)- because they were when they filmed it! The audience need to see how quick the cars were, and without any of the safety stuff that their modern heroes have.

#19 Peter Morley

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 09:16

Originally posted by Simpson RX1

And also, has anyone here ever seen the above mentioned film..........is it worth my while trying to seek out a copy?


It is quite arty/dreamy.
If you like Pink Kloyd's the Wall then you will probably enjoy La Passione.
Shouldn't be too hard to find - Amazon have a couple of copies on VHS, and there are some (cheaper!) on Ebay, can't remember if it was ever released on dvd.

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#20 Stephen W

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 10:53

Who the **** are Pink Kloyd?

I always thought it was Klink Floyd!

:rotfl:

#21 D-Type

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 11:50

Originally posted by Stephen W
Who the **** are Pink Kloyd?

I always thought it was Klink Floyd!

:rotfl:

Wasn't that the group that Mick Nason used to play for :rotfl: :rotfl:

#22 Macca

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 12:09

Ah yes, one of those 'beat combo' thingies.........

Wasn't a chap called Reve o'Stourke involved as well............and the old memory box dimly recalls Gil Davemour as well. :


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#23 Paul Parker

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 12:34

If nobody has already mentioned it then I seem to recall that Chris Nixon did write a screenplay for a Hawthorn/Collins Biopic some years ago. More recently the name Jude Law cropped up as the Hawthorn character.

The situation is as Peter Morley has already noted, that the depiction thereof would probably be unconvincing and in any case the period backdrops have either disappeared or changed out of all recognition, never mind the speed of the cars. Additionally there is the apparently insoluble problem of the mouthing of inappropriate modern age sentiments, expressions and attitudes within period depictions that so defines latter day action films of an historic nature, especially war films. Those charged with presenting the scripts to celluoid seem unable to resist this temptation and it totally undermines the moral integrity of such subjects.

That is not to say that 1950s racing drivers, or indeed anybody from any era, did not have emotions, but the display of said emotions was kept strictly under control. In fact the story of these two was almost a Greek tragedy, especially Hawthorn, who according to one noted senior motor racing historian of my acquaintance, would far rather have been flying than racing, notwithstanding his terminal kidney disease that I was told of in 1961. Just imagine the lachrymose tripe that an unsympathetic modern film studio, probably American, could make of this and the equally tragic end of his 'mon ami mate', never mind the Le Mans disaster. The list of supposedly fact based films over the decades where history is either mangled, altered or even ignored is long and comprehensive.

Best left well alone in my opinion.

#24 Racers Edge

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 14:00

Hello Mr. Parker...["Best left well alone in my opinion"] Why?....

For your information it is not a USA based company that wants to start this process again, but a English team who I'm sure most of the readers here know him by past movies and work on Automotive related documentary type DVD's....

www.VictorybyDesign.com

http://www.filmplan.com/

#25 Peter Morley

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 14:48

Originally posted by Stephen W
Who the **** are Pink Kloyd?

I always thought it was Klink Floyd!

:rotfl:


Nick Mason's dyslexic popular beat combo............

Actually the correct spelling of the group's name - while under the influence of enough hallucigenics to make the film seem perfectly sensible.

To back up Paul Parker's statement, I agree - modern heroes tend to turn on the waterworks far too readily to play such characters as Mike & Peter (no way were they 'New Men'!).
People used to modern life really don't appreciate how hard life was in those 'carefree' days - to them death was almost a side effect of having fun!

Having just seen the Aviator, it is obvious how Hollywood can ruin an interesting story (WARNING: if you are thinking of going to see it, take a good book! Or walk out when you first feel tempted, it doesn't get better (we waited, assuming it would improve and start to live up to the hype) or play the continuity game - for a film about a perfectionist the continuity is unbelievably awful).

But a British take on the story might work, as long as they don't have to try to sell it to 'foreign' audiences by portraying British heroes as gormless berks like Hughie Grant.

#26 Paul Parker

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 17:25

In reply to Racers Edge the why is as I stated. Notwithstanding if it is made by persons with an understanding and empathy for the subject and period concerned then fine and of course I did not know the identity of the makers.

Even so I note that one of the headers in the promo material reads to the effect about the drivers 'who fought and died for Ferrari in the marque's formative years'. This emphasis of course is necessary to sell the film to a general public and those with a superficial knowledge of the subject/period and therein lies the danger of distortion.

Personally I cannot imagine anybody being able to accurately portray or reflect the lives of mon ami mates nearly 50 years after their death. For a start the controversy of Le Mans '55 has never been settled (was it really Hawthorn's fault or simply mischance and too narrow a road etc. etc.) Also Hawthorn's illegitimate child apparently fathered after the '53 French GP, his illness, his alleged heavy beer drinking (as quoted direct to me by a witness) and so on. And that is before we get to the other half of the duo.

A feature using real material and talking directly to survivors of the time (for instance fiance Jean Howarth) would be better and could still be realistic and need not be too rose coloured. But a 'film' using actors (very true Mr. Morley) and recreations, I have my doubts although if it should turn out to be good then I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

Meanwhile I stand by what I say. Best left alone.

#27 oldtimer

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 18:21

Originally posted by Paul Parker
In reply to Racers Edge the why is as I stated. Notwithstanding if it is made by persons with an understanding and empathy for the subject and period concerned then fine and of course I did not know the identity of the makers.

Even so I note that one of the headers in the promo material reads to the effect about the drivers 'who fought and died for Ferrari in the marque's formative years'. This emphasis of course is necessary to sell the film to a general public and those with a superficial knowledge of the subject/period and therein lies the danger of distortion.

Personally I cannot imagine anybody being able to accurately portray or reflect the lives of mon ami mates nearly 50 years after their death. For a start the controversy of Le Mans '55 has never been settled (was it really Hawthorn's fault or simply mischance and too narrow a road etc. etc.) Also Hawthorn's illegitimate child apparently fathered after the '53 French GP, his illness, his alleged heavy beer drinking (as quoted direct to me by a witness) and so on. And that is before we get to the other half of the duo.

A feature using real material and talking directly to survivors of the time (for instance fiance Jean Howarth) would be better and could still be realistic and need not be too rose coloured. But a 'film' using actors (very true Mr. Morley) and recreations, I have my doubts although if it should turn out to be good then I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

Meanwhile I stand by what I say. Best left alone.



:up: :up:

I just do not see how the values of the '50s, either in the racing world or personal life styles, would make sense to a modern audience. And I would rate the chances of those value being properly portrayed as pretty low, for that matter. Think of the film 'Titanic'.

As an example, I am thinking of Hawthorn giggling whilst holding 'glamour girl' drawing in front of his aero screen whilst on the grid. Wow! Far out! Well, it was in the '50s.

As for someone being able to reproduce the flexible chassis of the 1958 Ferraris, and then find one driver who can pitch it into an understeering drift, and another who can make it oversteer, good luck.

As for the Le Mans accident, terrible as it was, it was a 1950s racing accident. One wound up driver, normal road width for those days, no pit lane, magnesium race car construction etc etc. All we can do is sit in judgement, while the special effects man gets his one chance at one of those mandatory fire-balls.

#28 Simpson RX1

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 21:14

It's just drifted into my memory that there was talk of another in the occasional series of docu-dramas from the BBC that have so far featured Malcolm and Donald Campbell and Tim Birkin, the next person featured was to have been Mike Hawthorn.

Maybe this is the origin of the 1958 Ferrari replicas as mentioned in a previous posting.

#29 snash

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 21:21

Originally posted by Stephen W
Unfortunately they will probably cast a couple of American dorks as Hawthorn and Collins!

It will be set in New England in the present day and they will be driving Indy Cars. Otherwise it will be true to the story. Well when I say true Hawthorn will win Indy and Collins will be killed at Pike's Peak. Finally the part of Enzo Ferrari will probably be played by Robert de Niro - well he is Italian!

It all sounds too good to be true! :yawn:



Sounds like a recipe for another 'DRIVEN'. :mad:

#30 VAR1016

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 21:51

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
It's just drifted into my memory that there was talk of another in the occasional series of docu-dramas from the BBC that have so far featured Malcolm and Donald Campbell and Tim Birkin, the next person featured was to have been Mike Hawthorn.

Maybe this is the origin of the 1958 Ferrari replicas as mentioned in a previous posting.


Ah yes; Rowan Atkinson's Birkin.

Now there was a driver - in the TV programme we were treated to the quite astonishing sight of a rather "touring" 3-litre Bentley with full road equipment, wings etc., beating a Bugatti. I don't think so - even given Birkin's talent.

As for my hero Mike Hawthorn, I think that the points above are well-made; no modern producer would allow a proper representation - "Gay whales against nuclear sexism" was simply not on the menu in those glory days.

And if the Americans get hold of it, God help us. Did you know that Peter Collins started as a hooch-runner in Villeville, Tennesee?;)

If the film is made then I hope they'll use Edward Fox; he'd make a good Rob Walker I think.

PdeRL

#31 Simpson RX1

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 22:01

I agree about the slightly fanciful representation of Birkin, but the other two shows were very good, particularly Anthony Hopkins as Donald Campbell.

I still can't think who they would cast as Mike Hawthorn, but then I would never have thought of Mr Bean as a Bentley Boy!

#32 David Beard

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 23:53

Originally posted by Simpson RX1

I still can't think who they would cast as Mike Hawthorn


I can. I met VAR1016 at Prescott wearing a bow tie and holding a pint....

#33 D-Type

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 00:07

There is definitely enough material for a film script.

But, and it's a big but, I don't think that any director would be able to resist the temptation to sensationalise it. Nobody could re-create the on-track action accurately enough to satisfy us lot on TNF. So on balance I don't want to see it as a film.

A TV-style docu-drama is another thing altogether. That could work.

#34 petefenelon

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 00:32

Originally posted by Simpson RX1
I agree about the slightly fanciful representation of Birkin, but the other two shows were very good, particularly Anthony Hopkins as Donald Campbell.

I still can't think who they would cast as Mike Hawthorn, but then I would never have thought of Mr Bean as a Bentley Boy!


Had the movie been made in the early 90s Martin Clunes would've been ideal, but he's too old now.

#35 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 09:48

Director Tony Maylam has had this project on the blocks for years. He also commissioned construction of 1958 Ferrari Dino 246 F1 'look-alikes' years ago. Ever since he's been seeking The Munny. I have read his script. Don't panic...unless fat-headed America calls the tune.

DCN

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 10:08

Originally posted by Philip Whiteman
.....Hardly works as a feel-good drama and, even as a weepie, it has the major snag in that they all end up dead.


But Moss has to be a part of it somewhere... why not have him kind of narrate it a little, have it built on his knowledge of the pair and how he was just oustside their little circle... then he survives to grow old and still not be a part of their lives?

Maybe I haven't explained that well... but think along those lines and it would probably come together...

And there was a nice replica of those cars here, Sam Johnson put it together... where did it get to?

#37 Racers Edge

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 10:20

Hello Doug,

Great to see you have a open mind on the movie, I personally think he will do a fantastic job at it, Tony Maylam is a motorhead and professional, and agree with most TNF er's that alot of thought will have to go into the actors. I have been told it WILL be made ( with the help of lots of $$$) with English actors ( or at least with English accents) and there might be some US involvement just as it was orginially,
... ref: Bahamas / Speedweek or maybe Sebring?/ after all Peter Collins was into the Americian high society scene after he met the love of his life, quite a nice romantic story in its self. I think there are so many angles to take this to make a good script, but I can't really comment on that until I get a copy.
... Could it be movie as classic as Grand-Prix?
I doubt it/ different times/ the computer age/ nothing is real anymore...saying that, they probably could "clone" Hawthorn & Collins on the silver screen, with todays modern film making technology.

#38 David McKinney

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 10:20

Originally posted by Ray Bell

And there was a nice replica of those cars here, Sam Johnson put it together... where did it get to?

Was that in addition to his 1960 Dino replica?

#39 Peter Morley

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 10:23

Originally posted by Ray Bell


But Moss has to be a part of it somewhere... why not have him kind of narrate it a little, have it built on his knowledge of the pair and how he was just oustside their little circle... then he survives to grow old and still not be a part of their lives?


Perhaps they could fit Moss in like they did the old lady (Rose) in Titanic.................

Maybe Stirling could have Mike's World Championship trophy and is looking for a way of 'returning it' without upsetting the fmaily.............

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 11:42

Originally posted by David McKinney
Was that in addition to his 1960 Dino replica?


No, it was in addition to his sports car replica...

Would a moviegoer recognise cars that looked that similar?

#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 11:56

Originally posted by Peter Morley
Perhaps they could fit Moss in like they did the old lady (Rose) in Titanic.................

Maybe Stirling could have Mike's World Championship trophy and is looking for a way of 'returning it' without upsetting the fmaily.............


Or could let Stirling be reflecting on the highlights of his life... with it washing out when he lost his two rivals.

#42 RTH

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 12:14

It was such a pity about Chris Rea's film , he's a nice bloke , a great musician , a devoted motor racing enthusiast, the replica sharknose was lovely, he must have spent plenty of money on it , it had some quite well known and competent actors...........yet I bought the tape and thought it was just awful, and couldn't bear to watch it a second time (and that's a bad sign ).

The script..........it was just no good at all in my view, there really was no story at all , so despite all the effort and expense , very disappointingly, for me at least it was a failure.

The storyline in a Hawthorn /Collins film may have a similar problem, as someone said earlier , the culmination of the film would be the '58 season ........and they all end up dead !

I think a feature film is very different to a documentary film about someone's life story.

A film needs to be a bit more escapist , having a start, middle and ending, a logical thread through it telling a story, a plot, and some sub plots, revealing personalities, likeable people you can easily identify with ...........and I think to be a success its needs to have a feel good factor , and yes despite perhaps some tragedy along the way a happy and uplifting happy ending.....well maybe if you ended the film at the last race of the 1958 season?

A really good script may be the hardest part of this.

#43 VAR1016

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 17:07

Originally posted by David Beard


I can. I met VAR1016 at Prescott wearing a bow tie and holding a pint....



:lol: :smoking:

PdeRL

#44 Peter Morley

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 18:24

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Or could let Stirling be reflecting on the highlights of his life... with it washing out when he lost his two rivals.


Hard to imagine Hollywood going for that kind of factual version?

There can't be many films where the main characters end up dying (except for the wonderful Silver Dream Machine), would that be enough or too much of a twist for film companies?

#45 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 21:14

There are many aspects of the true story that have not been picked up.

The first rule of any movie about sport is that the sport is the peg on which to hang the story. How much actual baseball is there in Field of Dreams? Is there as much as a whole minute?

How much actual horse racing is there in any Dick Francis novel?

What was the true nature of the Mike/Peter/Louise threesome. I have heard that it went horizontal. Off-circuit motor racing has always involved the squiggy bits.

Actors? You pluck them off the vine. The last person you want is someone like Jude Law, his presence on screen would put a screw in the story.

Those Ferraris in the picture posted would never pass muster, they are too clean for period. Luigi used to knock out body panels on a tree stump. The panels Luigi knocked out before lunch were the better.

I think that one reason why Britain supplied so many top racing drivers in the 1950s is that the guys were too young to have flown Spitfires or Lancasters. When they were at school the former Captain of Games paid a return visit in his Pilot Officier's uniform, sporting his 'wings'.

You do not have to end on Hawthorn's death, you end on him taking the Championship. The other story is that Mike appeared to be the carefree amateur while Stirling was the dedicated professional who didn't drink or smoke and who was never as public with his girlfriends. It is Stirling who adds an edge to the story not least because Mike and Peter must have known that they were not in the same class as Moss, as their records show. They must also have realised that Tony Brooks was way beyond their reach.

The real story is that Mike and Peter had a brief moment in which their talent could flower and then that moment was gone. They were of the 1950s, a much more interesting period than the 1960s.

If you are intent on telling an interesting story, the last thing you need is shots of racing cars. The only subject for any movie, play, or novel is people.

My idea of a film about the Connew is much better than a film about Hawthorn and Collins who were over-indulged kids.

Jude Law as Barrie Boor? That I can see.

#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 22:09

Nahhh... you need Hugh Grant for that one!

Somebody who can carry of extreme eccentricity as if it was everyday...

Though it's true that Hugh will have to age a bit first.

Maybe the lurk would be for it to become a reminiscence between Brooks and Moss? And yes, end at the title win, triumph and tragedy, Stirl and Tony agree that they lost their chance to be the first Brit WDC and that nothing mattered after that.

Except being alive...

#47 Simpson RX1

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 22:35

Don't think you could end on Hawthorn winning the championship, but maybe his retirement could be the cliffhanger..........then fade to black and dissolve into a picture of his Jag after the accident.......no music, just a caption along the lines of ".............and just X weeks later, he was gone"

Nicely melodramatic, tells the truth for the devotees, satisfies the seekers of gore and sensationalism...........everyone's a winner!!

#48 VAR1016

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 22:44

I'm always ready to mount a defence of Mike and Peter - Mike Lawrence's post contains views that are commonly held - i.e. that they were a couple of lucky playboys who happened to be in the right place at the right time whilst Moss was the true master etc., etc.

Well Hawthorn's record does stand scrutiny. The well known neck-and-neck battles with Fangio in top form do not need repeating.

I would draw attention to Hawthon's performance at treacherous Dundrod - a race won by Moss in the Mercedes-Benz. Hawthorn broke the crankshaft of his D-Type close to the end of the race. But he made fastest lap and to do that in a D-Type on that circuit displays great talent or at least bravery.

And Mike was one of the very select few who could drive the wicked Ferrari 750 Monza very quickly - quite a few expert drivers were badly bitten by the beast.

And remember he won his championship in 1958 - the one poo-pooed by Moss fans - not entirely due to Moss's undoubted sportsmanship, but also by the number of fastest laps Hawthorn achieved. Remember he was quite unlucky with his cars that year.

pdeRL

#49 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 23:20

Your post highlights bravery rather than skill, VAR... though it's obvious he had a lot of the latter as well...

I do see that fastest lap at Dundrod would have been a rich mix of both qualities.

#50 David Beard

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 23:47

It's just great having ML here :) :clap: