Jump to content


Photo

'Mon Ami Mate'


  • Please log in to reply
125 replies to this topic

#101 RJE

RJE
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 27 April 2010 - 06:57

The Dino pictured is obviously a very different car than that driven by Hawthorn, Collins, etc. For example the gearboxes were different leading to the drive shaft going down the opposite side of the cockpit along with a whole host of other less obvious and more subtle changes. However the most recognisable feature was the shape. I understand the 1958 car was pretty a evil thing to drive and there are numerous pictures of them with great gobs of understeer. The later cars were, I believe, much more friendly.

Advertisement

#102 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 27 April 2010 - 07:04

Yes, all the replicas I've seen - and there have been a few - are based on the 1960 car

#103 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,544 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 27 April 2010 - 07:13

I bet the tyre width is not based on the 1960 car!

#104 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 8,397 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 27 April 2010 - 10:02

A fascinating story, and interesting photos of the replicas, Bob. Seems a shame that the Ferraris have disappeared from sight. Thanks for filling in the details.

Meanwhile, I post a couple of pics which have appeared on the historic festivals thread of Mike's son, Arnaud Delaunay, and Louise Collins when they appeared at the 1991 Christie's Festival for the launch of Chris Nixon's book.
Posted ImagePosted Image

#105 tonyb

tonyb
  • Member

  • 363 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 27 April 2010 - 12:51

A fascinating story, and interesting photos of the replicas, Bob. Seems a shame that the Ferraris have disappeared from sight. Thanks for filling in the details.

Meanwhile, I post a couple of pics which have appeared on the historic festivals thread of Mike's son, Arnaud Delaunay, and Louise Collins when they appeared at the 1991 Christie's Festival for the launch of Chris Nixon's book.

Here's another partial crop from one at Silverstone in 1990 of Arnaud (JMH with black hair!) and his aunt Monique, taken by Maurice Rowe - I have the latter's own copy of MAM signed by him, Moss and others inc the two in Alan's pic above...

Posted Image

Did you take those pics then Alan? If you have more could you PM me please as I'm working on some material about Arnaud?

And does anyone know if Louse Collins, her mother or Peter's mother was living in South Africa, possibly Cape Town, around the time of Peter's death please?

#106 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 8,397 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 27 April 2010 - 17:09

Did you take those pics then Alan? If you have more could you PM me please as I'm working on some material about Arnaud?

Yes, Tony, I did. These are the only two that I have, I'm afraid. It was, of course, the days of roll film and I remember that I had come to the end of a roll and didn't have another one to hand.

#107 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,723 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 April 2010 - 19:49

The Dino pictured is obviously a very different car than that driven by Hawthorn, Collins, etc. For example the gearboxes were different leading to the drive shaft going down the opposite side of the cockpit along with a whole host of other less obvious and more subtle changes. However the most recognisable feature was the shape. I understand the 1958 car was pretty a evil thing to drive and there are numerous pictures of them with great gobs of understeer. The later cars were, I believe, much more friendly.


The 1958 cars used either 'big tube' or 'small tube' frames, and the 'big tube frames were used again in 1959 with Dunlop brakes and tyres which sorted the braking/handling troubles they'd had with Pirellis and drums; they looked completely different, with Fantuzzi bodies and low exhausts. I think the only 1959-type replica is one built by Trentside Classics around Fiat Dino mechanicals.

The 1960 cars, as you say, had the gearbox and angle of the engine reversed but looked pretty similar to the '59 cars. There are lots of replicas, starting with the 'Bamford' cars built by Graypaul around spare engines and gearboxes in 1979-80 (see Cavallino no. 39); one built in Australia IIRC in about 1992; and a couple more recently. At the Obrist Ferrari parts sale at the 1997 Festival of Speed there was an incomplete replica project with a bodyshell former and lots of bits besides engines. (One of the 156/65 engines sold then is the one in the yellow Sharknose built by JSW and seen at Silverstone last weekend.)

It's odd that all but one of the Ferrari/Fiat-engined recreations have been 1960-type, and only the film car with Ford power was a 1958-type. When my lottery ticket comes up I shall rectify that omission forthwith...........in the meantime:

Posted Image

Paul M

#108 tonyb

tonyb
  • Member

  • 363 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 27 April 2010 - 22:32

Here are a few of the model pages from Golden Boy for the 246, including a few models from a forum member. As it says, a shame the 'precision' ones can't get the steering wheels right:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by tonyb, 28 April 2010 - 08:45.


#109 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 9,698 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:03

~
And does anyone know if Louse Collins, her mother or Peter's mother was living in South Africa, possibly Cape Town, around the time of Peter's death please?

According to Chris Nixon in Mon Ami Mate, Louise was at the circuit, Peter's parents were on their yacht at Dartmouth and Louise's father, Andrew Cordier was in New York. There is no mention of Louise's mother. Although it is possible that Dorothy Cordier may have been visiting South Africa at the time of the accident, surely Nixon would have mentioned it.

#110 Macca

Macca
  • Member

  • 3,723 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:30

When I modified my Brumm 1/43 Ferrari to represent Mike's Reims winner, almost the first thing I did was make a 4-spoke steering-whell:

Posted Image

Paul M

#111 Dollyamber

Dollyamber
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:27

With reference to the 246 replicas, which were made as props for the film that never was, I am pleased to say that they are very much still in existence. They have lain unused at Syon Park for quite some time now but may find their way to pastures new following recent negotiations with an interested party.

I cannot be any more specific than this at this stage but thought it useful to inform readers that they are far from being lost :)

#112 RJE

RJE
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:17

With reference to the 246 replicas, which were made as props for the film that never was, I am pleased to say that they are very much still in existence. They have lain unused at Syon Park for quite some time now but may find their way to pastures new following recent negotiations with an interested party.

I cannot be any more specific than this at this stage but thought it useful to inform readers that they are far from being lost :)


Very interesting, let me know more.

#113 Dollyamber

Dollyamber
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:03

These unique replicas will shortly be placed for sale on one of the popular auction sites following recent discussions. If anyone wants a "heads-up" when they are available please let me know via PM to this profile.

Kind regards

Brian

#114 Dino246

Dino246
  • New Member

  • 26 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 17 February 2013 - 19:52

Has anyone else here read a recently published book entitled 'One Glorious Hour, the Mike Hawthorn story' by Don Shaw? As a life long Hawthorn fan I was pleased to receive it as a late Christmas present after hints to my daughter. It seems to be a novel but relys heavily on Chris Nixon's Mon Ami Mate, even the title being shared with that of Nixon's final chapter. Sadly I found it rather disappointing.

Shaw is, according to his publisher DB Publishing, a full time writer as well as Visiting Professor of Drama at Derby University. In 1976 he was commissioned by BBC TV to write a film documentary about Mike Hawthorn. It was never made as the facts of Mike's life and death were unclear. This appears to have been resolved as the blurb on the cover of his book proclaims 'A man dies helping his best friend who in return is called upon to repay the debt by risking his own life'. Indeed the book centres on Hawthorn's illness slightly more than his championship bid.

Mr Shaw offers thanks to a number of motoring celebrities, both living and dead, among them Max Mosley, Bernie Ecclestone and interestingly Tony Maylam, film director. I wonder therefore if the book may have been inspired by or related in some way to the proposed film script? If so I'm rather glad that the film never materialised.

What saddens me most by the book is the fact that author seems to know little about motor racing in the fifties even though all the action takes place between the French GP in July 1958 and Mike's death in January 1959. The Ferrari drivers have a motorhome (true?)and put tear-offs on their visors, even though Peter Collins usually wore goggles. Hawthorn pulls his visor down before the start of one race. At Monza Louise Collins watches the race from the commentary tower from where she sees the cars 'entering the Curva di Lesmo, the steeply banked section of the track'. I have not been in the tower but I have sat in the grandstand below it and suspect that it would have been difficult to see Lesmo through the trees even from that height. It would also appear that Mr Shaw thinks that the banked oval was used for the 1958 Italian GP which I believe was not the case. There is earlier mention of the Race of Two Worlds which may have caused confusion.

My wife thinks that I am just a pedantic old git to nit pick in this way, and others may well agree with her, but as a published author myself I do believe that Mr Shaw could have asked one of his many motor racing contacts to have checked his manuscript for authenticity. I am confident there are several TNFers who would happily have undertaken the task.

Tony Lethbridge

One final point which irritated me throughout the book was the continual references to arrivals and departures from 'Heathrow'. In 1958 it was London Airport and remained so until 1966.

Edited by Dino246, 17 February 2013 - 19:56.


#115 RA Historian

RA Historian
  • Member

  • 3,833 posts
  • Joined: October 06

Posted 18 February 2013 - 14:30

Shaw is, according to his publisher DB Publishing, a full time writer as well as Visiting Professor of Drama at Derby University. (emphasis mine)

That may go a ways towards explaining the shortcomings Tony exposes.
Tom

#116 Dollyamber

Dollyamber
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:55

Time flies by and our replicas still sit unused and unloved. I have been tasked with getting them out, sprucing them up and advertising them but never seem to find the time.

We feel that, despite being sat for many years they have a value even if it is as spares for current classics with the chassis and body being of interest from an ornamental point of view. That said, this course of action would be criminal.

in-between now and getting around to cleaning them up ready for sale I would welcome any advice re-where we should look to obtaining the best possible price for these unique motors.

Many thanks

Brian

#117 Janew21

Janew21
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 04 October 2015 - 07:56

Sorry to come to this thread late, but on a rainy afternoon vanity prompted me to type my own name into 'search' and I found this subject to which I may be able to add a few snippets.

The Mon Ami Mate film was very much 'on' for some years ago and I found myself very much linked to it. We had just completed a look alike 250F for a friend/customer, as a sort of light hearted exercise, ( The first photograph in the following gallery), when I read of Tony Maylam's intention to make a version of the Hawthorn/Collins story, which had always interested me,. I contacted Tony with a view to our building the cars for the film.

A few days later Tony and Ludvic Lindsey visited my workshop. They seemed satisfied with our, work having both examined the 250F. This resulted in long protracted talks with the legal eagles from the film production company and an eventual order for two Dino 246 running replicas and the option to build two Vanwall look alikes. I still have the contracts for this work residing somewhere in my office. The production company was known as Hotspur Productions and was the brainchild of the then Duke of Northumberland.

Tony Maylam, who is a very clever fellow and a car man through and through, talked with me long and hard regarding the spec that the cars should take. In brief they had to be capable of being driven quickly in suitable hands, yet tractable enough for inexperienced actors to get in them and drive them off trouble free down a pit lane. They had to be able to have cameras mounted on them in various places when required and still be driven at a suitable pace. They also had to be capable of numerous restarts, as retakes may have been common. Above all they had to look like the 1958 Grand Prix cars they represented. However the cars were never to be more than film props.

We constructed two Dino facsimiles based around a home built pair of space frames. We used Ford V6 power units driving through a GTV Alfa Romeo rear mounted gearbox. The engines were mounted at an angle in the chassis and the prop shaft passed down the drivers left side. We cast a pair of alloy 'drop boxes' with Hyvo chains to take the drive into the gearbox. Suspension was our design with twin wishbones at the front and a de Dion at the back. I did a phenomenal amount of research on the period which led to the two cars being subtley different in detail. For example Hawthorn always prefered a four spoke steering wheel while Collins had the standard three spokes. Likewise Hawthorn insisted on an aero screen while Collins had the wrap around type. Although Hawthorn's car was fitted with both for the last GP.

Some months later we delivered the first two cars to the Duke's Syon House home, the occasion being when the other photographs were taken. The first picture shows Tony Maylam, rear left, talking to Actor Timothy Ackroyd, sitting in the car. It was muted at one time that Timothy may have played Collins.
The next photo shows a general rear view of the car. The third the Duke trying the car for size and the fourth a view of the cockpit of the Hawthorn car.

We parked the two cars away in the stables at Syon House and went back to work on the 'Vanwalls'. That was the last I ever saw of the cars, as only weeks later the Duke of Northumberland passed away and the whole project collapsed. The cars certainly worked and I shall long remember the look on the face of a Triumph Herald driver as I cruised up past him while 'testing' one of them in the grounds of Syon Park. They even sounded quite good given the V6's firing order. I also remember with accute embarrassment when the entire staff of Syon House was called out to give a round of applause to myself and my assistant.

I always thought Tony's script (I still have a copy) very good and very much depicted the era, without too much gung-ho. The film very much told the story from a human perspective with the racing only providing a back drop with the cars mearly props. I always loved the idea of the film and it was very unfortunate that the project folded in such sad circumstances. Although at various times since people have tried to breathe life back into it, non have so far been successful.

As for the cars. The 250F now lives in Texas having spent some time in the Imperial Palace collection in Las Vegas. The 246's I have no idea, I was contacted some years ago by the present Duke to see if I knew how they could be sold off but I know not what happened. The 'Vanwall' body plugs were taken away and I assume destroyed, and the mounds I started taking from a T43 Cooper I threw away. I have dozens of photographs of this project which I stumble on every now and then but that seems all that is left.






asd250f.jpg


dino2463.jpg


dino2462.jpg


dino2461.jpg


dino2464.jpg

Can you let me know who you are (RJE) as I would like to make contact to find out more about the making of these Replicas.  I know who has them and we would like more information on their history.  Any help you can give would be great. 



#118 Janew21

Janew21
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:44

Very interesting, let me know more.

Hi can you or anyone give me any information on who made these replicas.   I am now in possession of the replicas and am trying to trace their full history. 



#119 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,582 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:20

RJE is Bob Egginton who runs ASD (Automotive Systems Development) in Kent. He doesn't post here often, so may well not yet be aware of your interest. Google throws up this listing for ASD with address and phone number:

http://www.yelp.co.u...kshop-maidstone

If this doesn't work, you might be able to contact him via this forum. Here's his forum profile:

http://forums.autosp...user/18797-rje/

Click on it, and then click on the 'Send me a message' tab. When you send your message he should get an email alerting him to it.

ETA: I've just found this post from Bob in which he says:

I have long ago retired from the business and ASD no longer exists ...


so the Google/Yelp details are probably no longer valid.

Edited by Tim Murray, 30 October 2015 - 10:44.


Advertisement

#120 Janew21

Janew21
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 25 January 2016 - 20:19

Thank you so much for that information.  Really helpful.  I will try and make contact with Bob Egginton.  I also do not log in to the Forum very regularly so that is the reason for the slow response. 



#121 Janew21

Janew21
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 22 October 2019 - 13:32

Does anybody know Bod Egginton of ASD Ltd?  I would like to get in touch with him over the building of the 2 cars for this film.

 



#122 Janew21

Janew21
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 22 October 2019 - 13:38

RJE is Bob Egginton who runs ASD (Automotive Systems Development) in Kent. He doesn't post here often, so may well not yet be aware of your interest. Google throws up this listing for ASD with address and phone number:

http://www.yelp.co.u...kshop-maidstone

If this doesn't work, you might be able to contact him via this forum. Here's his forum profile:

http://forums.autosp...user/18797-rje/

Click on it, and then click on the 'Send me a message' tab. When you send your message he should get an email alerting him to it.

ETA: I've just found this post from Bob in which he says:


so the Google/Yelp details are probably no longer valid.

Thanks.  Still trying to make contact. 



#123 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,582 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 22 October 2019 - 15:12

Bob has posted on this forum in the last few months. Have you tried sending him a PM?

#124 B Squared

B Squared
  • Member

  • 7,314 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 22 October 2019 - 15:59

Of a different note, I saw Louise King as a guest star on a 1963 episode of The Saint starring Rodger Moore this week. It was the first I had seen her on screen.

#125 RJE

RJE
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 23 October 2019 - 14:33

Hello Janew21.

 

I have told most of the story in a previous post.  However if you would like to send me any specific questions about the cars and their history I would be happy to tell you what I can.  Let me have your email address and I will attempt to make contact.



#126 Janew21

Janew21
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 31 October 2019 - 20:03

I have private messaged you with my email address.  I look forward to hearing from you.