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Looking for book: '24 Heures du Mans, 1923-1992' by Christian Moity


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#1 Gert

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 18:27

Hi,

I'm looking for the book "24 heures du Mans, 1923-1992", written by Christian Moity, Jean-Marc Teissedre & Alain Bienvenu.

It was heavily recommended to me either by someone from TNF or another Motorsport-related forum.

Unfortunatly the book is out of print.
I've been searching for it for a long time, without succes, and tried again a few days ago...

It is listed at Palmier (here) as "Disponibilité occasionnelle ... nous consulter", which - as far as i know - means that it is occasionally available, and that you can inquire at the "shop"... I did, but without succes, so far...

I also found it at allmotorbooks.com, which seems to be linked with spe barthelemy, the editor(?) of the book: when you enter "Moity" in the search function here , you'll find it as 7th and 8th (!) result.
There is a link where you can order the book, and I of course did that, and filled in all my details, including my credit card number.
The day after I received a (short) message from spe barthelemy, saying "Le livre en 2 volumes des 24 Heures du Mans est épuisé depuis déjà longtemps, toutefois si nous devions le rééditer ou le compléter nous vous en informerons. Avec nos remerciements.", which means as much as "The book isn't available since a very long time. Thanks."

Of course, they DID NOT remove the link from their website. It's still there...


There's also a 3rd place where I found it, somewhere in Italy (here)
I sent them a mail, and the book is available, but they sell it for 499,00 Euro.

If you compare with the prices of Palmier (250 à 300 Eu) or Allmotorbooks (213,42 €), that's not really cheap :(

I've even found it at a 4th place, in Switzerland, but I have no idea what "geb" means (someone suggested second-hand, or the way the book is "manufactured" - i have no idea)
Also 395.- is a lot more than the French prices, and doesn't even include shipping (to Belgium)...


Now, finally, my questions:

1. Does someone know the book? What is a reasonable price for it? I would really like to have it, but 500€ for the Italian guy is a whole lotta money... I can't think of many things that are really worth THAT amount of money...

2. Does anybody know a good book shop that maybe still has the book for a reasonable price?
I've tried google, and all bookshops I know, but I can't know them all - of course...

Thanks,
Gert.

BTW: Sorry for the long post and the rant, but right now, I'm so frustrated...

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#2 ReWind

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 18:58

Originally posted by Gert
[...][but I have no idea what "geb" means (someone suggested second-hand, or the way the book is "manufactured" - i have no idea)[...]

It is an abbr. for "gebunden" = "bound".

#3 dretceterini

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 19:05

There is a bookstore in the back of this classic car dealer in Los Angeles, and they have a copy for sale. I don't know how much they want, nor how much the postage would be, as it is a heavy book.

http://www.heritageclassics.com/

#4 Geza Sury

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 19:08

Gert, the cheapest copy I was able to locate is for 250 US dollars. If your're interested, order the book through Abebooks. The seller is LMG - AUTOMOBILE BOOKS & AUTOMOBILIA, who I can only recommend to you having ordered a couple of books from them in the past with no problems at all. They are reliable and fast, although not very cheap. Also you shoulkd check Ebay regularly. Hope this helps.

#5 Gert

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 22:21

Thanks for the replies! That alone made me feel alot better :)

Geza Sury:
thanks for the link to Abebooks! I had never heard of that before. Unfortunatly, it's not the book I'm looking for.

The same author has (at least) 3 books concerning Le Mans.
* Les 24 heures du Mans 1923-1982
* Les 24 heures du Mans 1949-1973
* Les 24 heures du Mans 1923-1992

All 3 are hard to find, but it's the last one (most recent one) that I'm looking for.

Nevertheless, the link seems pretty interesting. I've bookmarked it and I'll check it from time to time.

dretceterini:
Thanks for the link, but at the moment I can't seem to get into the bookstore...
Pressing 'enter the bookstore' results in an error (URL not found) at the moment.
I'll try again later.

All:
I checked the Swiss site again. The price stated there was not in €, but CHF (Swiss Franks), making it a lot cheaper. (approx. 255 €)
Now if only he has a copy in stock and is willing to send it to Belgium.

Gert.

#6 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 22:36

Er, Geza, that's not the edition he's looking for. That's the second edition, which goes up to 1982. Both the first (1974) and second (1984) editions were single volumes. The third (1994), was in two volumes and included an English translation: the first two were only in French, although there was a very limited English edition of the first (500 copies IIRC). I've never seen the third edition on eBay, only the first two.

The only copy on ABEbooks is at Collectors Car Books at Silverstone for GB£250/US$485/€373. Unusual for CCB to be CHEAPER than someone else ....

Gert: bear in mind that the prices Palmier and Allmotorbooks are quoting will be what they charged the last time they had one for sale. Chaters don't have it in stock either, but they're quoting £337.85 - a strangely precise price, but it probably converted exactly to some other currency at the time of the sale!

#7 dretceterini

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Posted 04 February 2005 - 23:24

Just as a guideline, the 2 volume set in a slipcase was originally $300. I have seen 2 or 3 copies for sale on ebay in the last 5 years or so on ebay, but that's not very many.

#8 JohnS

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 06:18

Have you tried the official ACO shop at Le Mans?

I bought the second edition brand new there when I visited Le Mans in 2000. It was on special offer and cost me 200FF (around £20).

I was amazed when I later saw it in Chaters for about six times that!

It may be worth a phone call to the ACO shop to see if they have the third edition.

John

#9 Geza Sury

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 09:21

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Er, Geza, that's not the edition he's looking for. That's the second edition, which goes up to 1982. Both the first (1974) and second (1984) editions were single volumes. The third (1994), was in two volumes and included an English translation: the first two were only in French, although there was a very limited English edition of the first (500 copies IIRC). I've never seen the third edition on eBay, only the first two.

The only copy on ABEbooks is at Collectors Car Books at Silverstone for GB£250/US$485/€373. Unusual for CCB to be CHEAPER than someone else ....

Richard, you're right in both counts. I wasn't aware of the third edition of this Le Mans book as I also haven't seen it on Ebay so far, and yes, CCB is rarely cheaper then any other online bookseller :eek:

#10 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 10:23

dretceterini is right, I got my pair it the early 1990s, when they were new and the price equalled something like $300, so that is the starting point.

I have the pair published in 1992, with French language and English summary.

As there are fewer books on the market today the prices will remain high.

They are the most expensive books I have ever bought, but I am very happy to have them :D

#11 panzani

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 17:07

This one?

#12 dretceterini

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 17:36

Yes, that's it. The English translation is a seperate pamphlet.

#13 Geza Sury

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 18:17

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I've never seen the third edition on eBay, only the first two.

The Le Mans book is now available on Ebay for sale :) Needless to say the (reserve) price is much more than I can afford :blush:

#14 dretceterini

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 18:55

It says the reserve is half of what Chatters wants, (1/2 400 pounds, or 200 pounds). That is less than $400, and I think you will be very hard pressed to find a cheaper copy...

#15 Gert

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 11:01

Yes, I've seen it appear on ebay too.
I had put "Moity" in my favorite searches, so I was notified when it appeared.
Quite handy feature, that.

I have no idea what the reserve price exactly is, but I have made a bit on it.
Let's see how it works out :)


BTW: Thanks all for mentioning it.

#16 Peter Morley

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 12:26

I think it used to cost around £150 when it was originally sold in the UK.

So something around £200 when it is obsolete is a reasonable deal.

As others have said all most websites tell you is what the last one sold for, and they don't factor in postage & packing charges (which in some (Amazon) cases can be quite incredible) or taxes/import duties (got stung for them on a book bought from an English dealer that was posted from Switzerland).

#17 Ren de Boer

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 14:40

I have bought the slip-case with the two-volume set at Le Mans as well. There is a souvenir store in the Village (merchandise area) where the book was still being offered last year, although I don't know the price. It might be worth while checking with the ACO (www.lemans.org). IMHO, the books are worth the money, although they are quite expensive indeed.

#18 ensign14

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 14:55

Originally posted by Peter Morley
I... or taxes/import duties (got stung for them on a book bought from an English dealer that was posted from Switzerland).

I thought books were exempt from that? I've had some pretty expensive ones from the States and nary a problem.

#19 Kpy

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 18:42

Gert -
I have sent you a PM.

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#20 Peter Morley

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 20:55

Originally posted by ensign14
I thought books were exempt from that? I've had some pretty expensive ones from the States and nary a problem.


Not into Belgium - books like everything else (above a fairly trivial value) are liable to VAT (plus import charges etc).

I think books are VAT exempt in the UK anyway, so they would not be liable there.

Apparently the UK customs only open around 10% of the packages coming into the UK (due to under-manning), so only 1 in 10 packages tend to get hit for the charges they are liable for!!
But that is for items other than books which are exempt anyway.

#21 Wolf

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 21:45

Gert, here's a link to the thread in which Hans posted a very usefull collections of links where one can find out of print books:

http://forums.atlasf...=&threadid=7435

Hope it helps. :)

#22 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 22:42

Originally posted by Peter Morley
I think books are VAT exempt in the UK anyway, so they would not be liable there.

Not exempt, but zero-rated. That means if you buy mail order from a bookseller in an EU country where they are taxed (which is most of them), you can ask them to deduct the VAT from the purchase price. Amazon.de and Amazon.fr do this automatically for consignments to the UK.

Originally posted by Peter Morley
Apparently the UK customs only open around 10% of the packages coming into the UK (due to under-manning), so only 1 in 10 packages tend to get hit for the charges they are liable for!!
But that is for items other than books which are exempt anyway.

They do target books, but generally only from suppliers abroad who they know might be supplying what they consider pornography, books on drugs etc. When I worked in London in the 70s we did a very good trade in (among other things!) "snuff" comics which we imported via two US wholesalers. Parcels from one company were regularly opened at a Customs unit in Derby and "snuff" comics were always impounded: those from the other firm (much more mainstream) always came through with the US Mail seals still on them! Guess who we used to order the comics from ..... :lol:

#23 Gert

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Posted 04 March 2005 - 22:22

Originally posted by Wolf
Gert, here's a link to the thread in which Hans posted a very usefull collections of links where one can find out of print books:

http://forums.atlasf...=&threadid=7435

Hope it helps. :)


Thanks Wolf for pointing me to that thread, there are a few I didn't know :)
And of course, thank you Hans for posting it !

#24 Muzza

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Posted 04 March 2005 - 23:04

Originally posted by JohnS
Have you tried the official ACO shop at Le Mans?

I bought the second edition brand new there when I visited Le Mans in 2000. It was on special offer and cost me 200FF (around £20).

I was amazed when I later saw it in Chaters for about six times that!

It may be worth a phone call to the ACO shop to see if they have the third edition.

John


I bought mine at FNAC in Le Mans in 1997 because the ACO shop had temporarily ran out of copies then, but I know of people that bought the same book from the ACO after that.

I second the comments above - try contacting the ACO.

Good luck,


Muzza

#25 Gert

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 19:36

Yes!!!

I finally have the book!

Found one on ebay after a PM of one of our TNF members!
It took a while before I finally could claim it, I needed it to be relisted (didin't meet the reserve at first), but I finally have it :D

Thanks all for your help!!

#26 Sniffer

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 16:01

Thought I'd reopen this thread as I'm now looking for the same book......

Has anyone come across it for sale anyway in the last 12 months since it was talked about here ?

Any help greatly appreciated as I've tried the usual sources to find it but no luck so far......

#27 dretceterini

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 20:11

Originally posted by Sniffer
Thought I'd reopen this thread as I'm now looking for the same book......

Has anyone come across it for sale anyway in the last 12 months since it was talked about here ?

Any help greatly appreciated as I've tried the usual sources to find it but no luck so far......



The ACO now as a 100 years of the ACO which should contain a full Le Mans history, but I have not as yet actually seen the book.

#28 Sniffer

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 21:06

Yes, I know - already got it.....it's a FANTASTIC two volume book.....entitled "Le Mans
un siècle de passion avec l'Automobile Club de l'Ouest 1906-2006"

I still want the previous book though too..........call me sad :D

#29 dretceterini

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 01:48

Originally posted by Sniffer
Yes, I know - already got it.....it's a FANTASTIC two volume book.....entitled "Le Mans
un siècle de passion avec l'Automobile Club de l'Ouest 1906-2006"

I still want the previous book though too..........call me sad :D





More likely that I call you wealthy :p

My list of book wants (and I already have over 2000) numbers about 150 at this time. Unfortunately, most decent books today are $100 US, minimum. Tony Adriaensen's Fiat 8V book is about $600 including post :(

#30 Sniffer

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 07:57

The Le Mans book only cost me around 150 euros including shipping and that was direct from the ACO - I thought it was a pretty good deal !!

I'm slowly building up my collection but my interests mainly lie in Le Mans (and endurance racing generally), Formula 1 (especially Monaco) and Brian Redman !!

#31 JBL

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 15:46

Yesterday I saw the old version at the Maastricht motor show for €795 with Gilena in Italy. I am also looking for this book and would pay up to €500. Does anyone have an idea?

As far as I know is the 2006 version by far not as precise as the older version...

#32 Scuderia SSS

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 20:52

Well this link says £95 buy it now ($187), which is reasonable
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...VQQcmdZViewItem

#33 dretceterini

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 20:53

I think this is the one you are looking for:
$495 US...

http://www.motolit.c...heurduman1.html

#34 fausto

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 23:22

try here:

http://www.merikits.com/I/libri.html

some years ago (late '90s/early 2K) I bought from them copies of early LM Yearbooks at a very reasonable price...