23 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

Spinning off from the Lauda thread.

Long story short: rain, pace car in front of Howden Ganley, 5 or 6 cars make up a lap on the field, tyre changes, lap charts sodden, Oliver leads, Fittipaldi takes him on the line, Chunky throws hat, chequered shown to Revson, Williams wondering whether he should go to Victory Lane, pace cars exorcised from F1 for years.

Record books have it as Revson's victory.

Does anyone have anything that has not already been published about it? Did Revson REALLY win? Did Emmo? Had Oliver lapped the field?

[Keir]

All things being what they were, Peter won!

[Dave Ware]

I talked to a disappointed, yet still accessable Jackie Oliver after the race and he reckoned he finished second.

Being a teenager at the time, I didn't think about his feelings on the outcome. But when he said "second", I immedately understood how he felt about missing what would have been the biggest win of his career.

Talk about a class act - here's a Grand Prix driver who believes he just missed out on a win. He's sitting on the step to the Shadow motor home and is polite enough to entertain my question.

[Twin Window]

There's some great post-race footage on the Brunswick (Marlboro) tape covering that GP. The film of 'Wanker' Williams and Howden Ganley trying to come to terms with their 'win'...!

It was a real mess, wasn't it? But entertaining nevertheless, with two real mid-to-tail enders in the frame along with the previous seasons champ and a recent rookie winner. Much as I'd have loved Ganley or Oliver to have trousered it, I liked Revvie too so that was fine. Not that I disliked Emerson, you understand, just that I've always been for the underdog!

[billthekat]

I was there and tried to keep a lap chart as was my usual practice, but the thing got waterlogged and then the safety car and then this and then that so at one point I was ready to accept damn near anybody as the winner, although it seemed to be either Revson or Fittipaldi or Oliver in about that order -- or was it Oliver, Revson, Fittipaldi or maybe Fittipaldi, Oliver, Revson? It was a mess! Generally, I could usually sort out even the biggest wad on a road course, but this was a complete shambles since I knew that Howden Ganley sure as hell wasn't the leader! Later, we were able to reconstruct enough to think that it was Revson after all, but....

[Twin Window]

Considering the lack of technology thirty-plus years ago, it's fairly easy to appreciate how easily the fiasco evolved - but for it to happen as recently as it did in Brazil a couple of years back is, in some respects, even more astonishing!

Anyway, let's not talk about plastic cars and stick to aluminium and steel...

[m.tanney]

From Mosport track historian Bob Brockington's excellent book, Mosport International Raceway, Four Decades of Racing (with his permission)

Lauda, on Firestone tires, excelled in the wet conditions and actually took the lead on lap 3 and held it until lap 19 when he pitted for a change to intermediates from full wets handing the lead to Fittipaldi's Lotus. Then the fun began in earnest as nearly everyone came into the pits for different tires causing a massive jam-up and destroying all the teams lap charts in the process.
  On lap 33, Scheckter and Francois Cevert (Tyrrell) collided in Corner two, spreading debris all over the track and an ambulance was dispatched to pick up Cevert, who, thankfully was not injured. With the marshals trying to clean the mess up and remove two damaged cars, the organizers sent out the pace car to slow down the field. Unfortunately, the pace car was told to 'pick up' Howden Ganley in the Frank Williams entered ISO when it should have pulled in front of Beltoise. The official lap charts released later that night showed that Ganley was in fact ninth at the time. Confusion reigned as more cars came into the pits, further jumbling the field. Gradually they all formed up behind an amazed Ganley and he took off when the green was brought out but was soon passed by Fittipaldi, who then thought he was the leader!
  Meanwhile, back in the pack was the actual leader Jean-Pierre Beltoise in a BRM, Oliver's Shadow and Peter Revson (McLaren), all fighting for position but not knowing what position! On lap 47, Revson passed Beltoise to take the official lead with Oliver now third and Fittipaldi in fourth. The race continued on as the cars slithered around the still wet track, still not knowing who was leading. As the pack of four charged under the checkered flag, it appeared that the starter had given the flag to Revson.
  To compound the problem, Fittipaldi was waved into victory circle to be followed by Revson a moment later. The officials gave the trophy to Revson and not Fittipaldi or Oliver. Oliver's crew filed a protest but the officials, having painfully resurrected the lap chart showed them where they had lost time. Late in the evening the timers released the final lap chart confirming Revson as winner from Fittipaldi, Oliver and Beltoise. There are some who to this day are not sure if the lap charts were correct, but had to accept the findings of the officials. So ended a really strange race.

  BTW, the lap charts still exist.

[Chris Townsend]

Does anyone have a programme for the Canadian GP 1973?

I'm looking for a full list of entrants for the F. Atlantic support race

Chris

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Considering the lack of technology thirty-plus years ago, it's fairly easy to appreciate how easily the fiasco evolved - but for it to happen as recently as it did in Brazil a couple of years back is, in some respects, even more astonishing!

Anyway, let's not talk about plastic cars and stick to aluminium and steel...

Care to tell us more on this TW ????

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by m.tanney
From Mosport track historian Bob Brockington's excellent book, Mosport International Raceway, Four Decades of Racing (with his permission)


  BTW, the lap charts still exist.

and it was posted in http://forums.atlasf...y=&pagenumber=2, reply #44 - but now i see just an "x"....
Maybe Vrba can publish it again?

[maxie]

Perhaps it should be filed under the classic races column in this site?

[Mac Lark]

Milan has just put me on to this..

Two years ago I found myself siting next to Howden's wife Judy at a BRDC lunch in Auckland. I not only discovered that she had raced but was also one of those people that seem to be able to keep times for an entire field of racing cars off one stopwatch.

In other words - a timekeeping expert, and a lovely lady as well.

I subsequently 'interviewed' Judy, rather than Howden, as it seemed to me that everyone had spoken to the drivers involved - and wasn't Beltoise another that 'might have' won - but that a timekeeper would be a really interesting person to talk to and build an article around.

I'll dig it out and review the conclusions

[conjohn]

This is the official lap chart as published by Autosport.


Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

[ensign14]

Think it's fair to say Rikky von Opel was not the winner.

[Mac Lark]

Begs question - did 'Antonio Bronco' ever win a single seater race?

[fines]

Thanks Conny, for the lap chart - this is a race I would dearly love to have all the lap times from! Many questions await to be solved by a GapChart analysis...

AUTOCOURSE didn't publish the lap times anymore in 1973, did they?

[MCS]

Originally posted by conjohn
This is the official lap chart as published by Autosport.

I like the line: "THIS IS THE OFFICIAL LAPCHART WHICH HAPPENS TO CORRESPOND WITH THE OFFICIAL RESULTS"

The handwriting looks like the usual (was it Alan Phillips?), but where was his lap chart?!

Or did he simply write up the "official" lapchart for each Grand Prix..?

Mark

[ensign14]

Originally posted by fines
AUTOCOURSE didn't publish the lap times anymore in 1973, did they?

No - stopped in 1972, apparently because of failing eyesight. I kid you not.

[fines]

... the more's the pity!

[philippe7]

Originally posted by Mac Lark
Begs question - did 'Antonio Bronco' ever win a single seater race?

I wouldn't swear so, but surely he must have won a couple in British F3 in 1972 . He won one Championship, and was runner-up in the other one , that would be difficult ( but yes, not impossible ) without at least one win.

[conjohn]

Originally posted by MCS


I like the line: "THIS IS THE OFFICIAL LAPCHART WHICH HAPPENS TO CORRESPOND WITH THE OFFICIAL RESULTS"

The handwriting looks like the usual (was it Alan Phillips?), but where was his lap chart?!

Or did he simply write up the "official" lapchart for each Grand Prix..?

Mark

Yes, a very tongue-in-cheek comment... and usually Alan did his own lapchart (at least I think so), so I can only surmise that this time his didn't tally with the official results... and in later years they were usually taken from Michelle Dubosc's stopwatch.

[MCS]

Originally posted by conjohn

Yes, a very tongue-in-cheek comment... and usually Alan did his own lapchart (at least I think so), so I can only surmise that this time his didn't tally with the official results... and in later years they were usually taken from Michelle Dubosc's stopwatch.

All of which begs the inevitable question: Who did Alan Phillips have down as the winner?

Mark

[Ralliart]

With all the mistakes and omissions that took place on and off the track that day, isn't the bottom line that, when Revson passed Beltoise, he took a lead he would not relinguish the rest of the race? If it's generally considered that Beltoise was the leader at that point, then, despite all the Keystone Kops stuff afterwards, didn't Revson win the thing?

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Ralliart
With all the mistakes and omissions that took place on and off the track that day, isn't the bottom line that, when Revson passed Beltoise, he took a lead he would not relinguish the rest of the race? If it's generally considered that Beltoise was the leader at that point, then, despite all the Keystone Kops stuff afterwards, didn't Revson win the thing?

Does that mean Oliver was not leading between laps 40 and 46?