11 replies to this topic

[gerrit stevens]

I am looking for completion of the results (including retirements) of the Cactus Derby (Los Angeles-Phoenix).
To my knowledge there were seven editions from 1908 until 1914. The 1909 edition was a championship race.

Here are my findings on which I like to get some additions.

1st CACTUS DERBY

9 November 1908, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

455 miles (732,25 km) desert road race, 

 1 F.C. Fenner				   White Steamer	   30:28.00

 2 A.J. Smith					Elmore			  32:52.00

 3 Leon Shettler				 Kissel Kar		  35:42.00

 4 Ralph Hamlin				  Franklin			 finished



Notes:

 1. Source: LA Times, 10 November 1908

 2. Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing" gives					

	as winner 1. F.C. Fenner & H.D. Ryus in a time of 30:06.16.

	Distance 511 miles (822,4 km).







2nd CACTUS DERBY

6 November 1909, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

480 miles (772,5 km) desert road race, 

 1 Joe Nikrent				  Buick			   19:13:00

   Louis Nikrent

 2 Harold Stone				 Columbia			23:35:20

   Charles Hillingworth 

 3 Bert Latham				  Studebaker/E. M. F. 24:56

   Herbert LaCasse & Harry Lord			 

 4 Harris Hanshue				Kissel Kar		  26:04:23

   Charles Bigelow & Lee Gehricke

 5 M. Poismans				   Isotta				Out

   F.C. Fenner 

 6 Walter Vale				   Pennnsylvania		 Out

   J. C. Coberly 

 7 Ralph Hamlin				  Franklin			  Brkn axle housing

   Guy Irwin 

 8 D. B. Rose					Elmore				Out

   Clarence Smith 

 9 R. Harrison				   Dorris				Wrecked, hit tree 

10 C. Harris					 Ford				  Out



Notes:

 1. Sources: LA Times, 7-8 November 1909 & Motor Age

 2. Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing" gives					

	a winning time of 19:13.30.

 3. Sanction Number: AAA # 104

 4. Second named drivers considered as relief-drivers.

 5. Limited to stock chassis.







3rd CACTUS DERBY

5-7 November 1910, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

480 miles (772,5 km) desert road race, 

 1 Harvey Herrick & O.M. Kern	Kisselkar		 15:44.00



Notes:

 1. source: Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing"









4th CACTUS DERBY

7 November 1911, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

542 miles (872,25 km) desert road race, 

 1 Harvey Herrick				National		  20:22.00



Notes:

 1. source: Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing"





5th CACTUS DERBY

28 October 1912, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

511 miles (822,4 km) desert road race, 

 1 Ralph Hamlin				  Franklin		  18:10.22



Notes:

 1. source: Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing"





6th CACTUS DERBY

4 November 1913, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

564 miles (907,66 km) desert road race, 

 1 Orin Davis					Locomobile		18:50.00



Notes:

 1. source: Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing"





7th CACTUS DERBY

10 November 1914, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.

671 miles (1079,9 km) desert road race, 

 1 Barney Oldfield			   Stutz			 23:00.35

 2 Louis Nikrent				 Paige			 23:35.56

 3 Beaudette					 Paige			 25:05.23

 4 R.C. Durant				   Chevrolet		 26:01.00

 5 Bramlett					  Cadillac		  26:20.40

 6 Ellis						 Buick			 28:22.00

 7 Burns						 Stutz			 29:48.00

 8 Du Bois					   Cole			  31:56.00



Notes:

 1. source: L'Historique de la Course Automobile (Edmond Cohin).

 2: Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing" gives a winning 

	time of: 23:01.00.

Gerrit Stevens

[Darren Galpin]

http://autohobbies.com/azracinghistory - this gives a light history of the event. It says that the time of the 1908 winner was 30h36m. Different again.....

[robert dick]

Desert Race - Los Angeles to Phoenix - November 5-7, 1910 - 418 miles :

1) H. Herrick (Kisselkar) in 15 h 49' = 26,41 mph
2) R. Hamlin (Franklin six) 16 h 16'
3) W. Tremaine (Pope-Hartford) 17 h 17'
4) Bigelow (Mercer) 19 h 03'
5) Stickney (Velie) 19 h 54'
6) Dull (Parry) 20 h 13'
7) Gates (Duro) 20 h 21'
8) Hemwood (Ohio) 21 h 04'
9) Curtis (Apperson) 21 h 11'
10) Sheriff (Rambler) 23 h 50'
11) Stearns (Ford) 28 h 23'

DNF : Bary (Abbott-Detroit), Smith (Maxwell), ? (Knox)

= = = = =

November 4-7, 1911 - 551 miles :

1) H. Herrick (National) in 1223:22 (as quoted in "Motor Age") = 27,03 mph
2) R. Hamlin (Franklin six) 1374:35
3) T. Corrigan (Midland) 1461:24
4) L. Nikrent (Buick) 1586:35

DNF : Smith (Maxwell), Tremaine (Pope-Hartford), Stearns (Stoddard-Dayton), Bramlette (Cadillac), La Casse (EMF), Soules (Flanders), Jenkins (Cole), Hanshue (Mercer), Brong (Case), Ferguson (Buick), Tetzlaff (Fiat), Bigelow (Midland)

= = = = =

Didn't find 1912.

= = = = =

November 2-4, 1913 - 564 miles :

1) Davis (Locomobile) in 18 h 50' = 29, 94 mph
2) Ball (Marmon) 21 h 05'
3) L. Nikrent (Buick) 21 h 41'
4) Rice (Simplex) 22 h 54'
5) Buxton (Mercer) 23 h 28'
6) Greer (Mitchell) 24 h 03'
7) Ellis (Buick) 24 h 09'

DNF : Soules (Cadillac), Carlson (Simplex), Ham (Cadillac), Toft (Simplex), McKone (Cadillac), Oldfield (Simplex), Smith (Ford), Smith (Buick), Waters (Fiat), Tracy (National), Verbeck (Fiat), Dickey (Packard), Wallace (Apperson), Folks (Blue Midget), Watson (Overland), Pink (Cole), Tobin (Apperson)

= = = = =

November 9-11, 1914 - 696 miles :
1) Oldfield (Stutz) in 23 h 00' = 30,2 mph
2) Nikrent (Paige) 23 h 35'
3) Beaudet (Paige) 25 h 04'
4) Durant (Chevrolet) 25 h 46'
5) Bramlett (Cadillac) 26 h 20'
6) Ellis (Buick) 28 h 22'
7) Burns (Stutz) 29 h 48'
8) DuBois (Cole) 31 h 56'

DNF : Joseph (Buick), Leonard (Buick), Wiseman (Ford), Moore (kisselkar), Denel (Simplex), Turner (Buick), Adolph (Fiat), Naquin (Velie), Harrel (Fiat), Johnson (Buick), Miller (Ford), Smith (Buick), Tremaine (Pope-Hartford), Cater (Metropole), Lester (Lozier), Turner (Palmer-Singer), Keene (Beaver-Bullett), Bradford (Cadillac), Freeman (Buick)

[gerrit stevens]

Originally posted by robert dick
November 4-7, 1911 - 551 miles :

1) H. Herrick (National) in 1223:22 (as quoted in "Motor Age") = 27,03 mph

Thanks robert.

Could you tell the source. Could it be Motor Age which you have quoted once.

Gerrit Stevens

[robert dick]

Source = Motor Age

[Mark Godfrey]

Gerrit, I do not have any data to add, but I have question for you and Robert.

I was reminded recently that this event was sometimes known as the Desert Classic, yet today most refer it as the "Cactus Derby." Is the Cactus Derby a nickname for the event, or perhaps a legitimate title for certain years the event was run?

I first noticed this when I saw Barney Oldfield's "Master Driver of the World" medal for the 1914 gave the event name as "Desert Classic."

The subject came up recently when a documentary film maker (Tbeumler@cox.net) working on "The Great Coaster Race" a film history of a gravity powered go-cart race, contacted me looking for LA to Phoenix photos. (The Coaster Races at Bisbee, Arizona, go back to 1914 and were inspired in part by the LA to Phoenix Road Race.)

Mark Godfrey

[robert dick]

In 1914 Motor Age titled its race report "Cactus Derby" : I would say it was a contemporary nickname for the "Desert Race from Los Angeles, California, to Phoenix, Arizona".

[robert dick]

In 1914 the race was also called "seventh annual Los Angeles-to-Phoenix road race".

1914 route (starts at 2-minute intervals) :
November 9 : LA - San Bernadino (61 miles) - Victorville (102 miles) - Barstow (136 miles) - Needles (303.4 miles)
November 10 : Needles - Kingman (374.9 miles) - Prescott (558.4 miles)
November 11 : Prescott - Wickenburg (629.4 miles) - Phoenix (696.4 miles)

Oldfield drove the same Stutz in which he finished fifth in the 1914 Indianapolis 500, "with an extra gas tank, emergency water supply, a few heavy straps over the hood and an additional tire rack". Riding mechanic = George Hill.

[Disco Stu]

2nd CACTUS DERBY
6 November 1909, Los Angeles, Cal. to Phoenix, Arix.
480 miles (772,5 km) desert road race,
1 Joe Nikrent Buick 19:13:00
Louis Nikrent
2 Harold Stone Columbia 23:35:20
Charles Hillingworth
3 Bert Latham Studebaker/E. M. F. 24:56
Herbert LaCasse & Harry Lord
4 Harris Hanshue Kissel Kar 26:04:23
Charles Bigelow & Lee Gehricke
5 M. Poismans Isotta Out
F.C. Fenner
6 Walter Vale Pennnsylvania Out
J. C. Coberly
7 Ralph Hamlin Franklin Brkn axle housing
Guy Irwin
8 D. B. Rose Elmore Out
Clarence Smith
9 R. Harrison Dorris Wrecked, hit tree
10 C. Harris Ford Out

Notes:
1. Sources: LA Times, 7-8 November 1909 & Motor Age
2. Albert Bochroch "American Automobile Racing" gives
a winning time of 19:13.30.
3. Sanction Number: AAA # 104
4. Second named drivers considered as relief-drivers.
5. Limited to stock chassis.

Doing some digging I've found more info about this race, but I think I've found more questions than answers. The Isotta was driven by Max Poismans and Fred C. Fenner, the car's owner. Fenner had hoped to put Lewis Strang in the car, but apparently Strang didn't arrive from New York in time. R. P. Harrison was the driver of the Dorris, still no name but at least initials. And Charles Harris was the driver of the Ford. Poor Charles had a rough time of it. He somehow wandered into the desert and got lost for a couple of days before a search party found him. Oops! Here is the New York Times story on that.

This story in the Times about the start of the race contradicts some of the results given above. It lists Guy Irwin as having started the Franklin, not Ralph Hamlin. An even bigger discrepancy is that George Dade, who doesn't even show up in the list above, is shown as starting the Elmore. (I'm assuming it's Dade, they spell it Dake in the article. The Times' ability to spell names correctly was shockingly poor.)

The finishing order may need an adjustment as well. According to the L. A. Times. Fenner's Isotta, which is listed as out, was restored to 2nd place by the race officials. Unfortunately the L. A. Times archive isn't free like the New York Times, so I have to work with is that abstract.

So, anyone got any ideas?

[Disco Stu]

Well, as if things weren't messy enough, I've now found this notation in Darren Galpin's Pre-WWI work:

* On the 24th April 1910, it was announced that Chairman Butler and his associates on the AAA Contest Board upheld a protest by the Columbia Motor Car Company, declaring the Columbia the winner. The protest was based upon the fact that the Buick had changed from 36 inch to 34 inch wheels for the 50 mile race around the 1 mile Arizona track. Harold Stone, driver of the Columbia, filed an immediate protest.

That just muddied the waters even further. We've now got multiple claims on both 1st and 2nd places. Does anyone know what the final, official finish order was?

[Graham Clayton]

According to contemporary reports, the distance of the 1914 Cactus Derby was either 706 miles (Pittsburgh Press, November 29, 1914, page 18) or 673 miles (Spokane Daily Chronicle, November 17, 1914, page 7).

Here is some informartion on how Nikrent and Baudet drove the race:

The most remarkable feature of all in connection with the two Paige entries was the fact that Nikrent's car, which had finished in second place, never had the hood removed during the entire three days, and both Paige cars did not experience the slightest tire trouble during the entire race. The greatest surprise was the result of the remarkable consistency shown by the Paige entries in spite of the absolutely different methods adopted by the two drivers as their racing schedule.

Nikrent, like the shrewd general which he has proved himself in many a hard fought battle, set himself the task of driving the entire race at an average speed of 31 mph, saving his car over the good stretches, and exacting every ounce of power, speed and endurance over the bad stretches. On the contrary Baudet worked on the exact opposite principle, having decided at the very beginning to open her wide and drive his car to the limit every foot of the way, and though the punishment the car and he must have suffered was almost undendurable, the results due to what was in the car itself brought him in right behind Nikrent

Pittsburgh Press, November 29, 1914, page 18

Here is a report on the second leg of the 1914 Cactus Derby:

PRESCOTT, Arizona, Nov 10 - Barney Oldfield, winner of the first leg yesterday, plunged through mud, beat out a cloudburst and won the second leg of the seventh annual Phoenix road race today. Forty-seven minutes and twenty-one seconds to the good, he will start from here at 10 o'clock tomorrow and battle his way against time and the elements 134 miles down to Phoenix, the finish line.

Olin Davis, fourth into control at Needles yesterday, winner of last year's 'Cactus Derby', as the race is called, checked in second here today at 2:09:01 mountain time, followed by Louis Nikrent, third at 2:13:35.

Oldfield came in like a catapulted mud cannon ball at 1:50:45. Allowing for the difference in Pacific and mountain time, his elapsed time was 8:18:45, 14 minutes better than the runner-up.

Yesterday Oldfield had a clear lead of six minutes over Durant, who has now dropped back from second place. The addition of Oldfield's elapsed time on the two legs gives 17:04:40, with Davis next.

Rain poured on the already moist clay roads early in the day. Fifty miles away Oldfield sighted a cloudburst that deluged the road just as he thundered his way safely from under it. Starting from Needles this morning second, Oldfield overcame Durant's two-minute lead. He put a gap of 19 minutes between himself and Davis, driving mudholes into the road, springing his rear axle and roaring into the finish on flat rear tires.

The finish at the Phoenix fairgrounds tomorrow will give the winner, in addition to the purse, a medal and title of 'master driver of the world'.

[Vitesse2]

Coincidentally, David Greenlees has just posted some pictures of the 1913 race on his excellent Old Motor blog:

http://theoldmotor.c...to-phoenix-race

While you're there, do check out some of the other stuff. There's some wonderful pictures there! It's a site I check every day.

Edited by Vitesse2, 25 June 2011 - 20:27.