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USAC, CART and Champ Car history


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#2251 E1pix

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 13:13

Danny Sullivan okay after head on crash in Monterey, CA destroys his Audi R8 GT:

http://www.autoweek....5/IRL/120219918

:wave: Thanks for the post, B2, hope Danny's okay. Spooky, when will we learn about text-driving?

Sorry to have been away from the Glen, have new scans to post soon...

I've really enjoyed picking my way through this thread, Indycar back in the 1990's was just a great place to be. The Greg Moore photos particularly bring back a lot of good memories.

Although these are not period pictures I though they might be of some interest - they were taken by Greg Pajo in about 2009 for Motorsport Magazine. Unfathomably they were never published. The car is PC-26 005 which won the 1997 St. Louis race, Penske team win number 99. Andrew Frankel was driving on this occasion, it was a bit of a squeeze getting him in but he did a marvellous job.

:wave: Welcome to TNF, Patrick! Wonderful photos, you'll do well here and we're glad to have you.

[and Thanks for the nice comment about my Greg Moore photos, I may do a thread on him soon so please tell me if you have anything of him.]

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#2252 B Squared

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 13:44

:wave: Thanks for the post, B2, hope Danny's okay. Spooky, when will we learn about text-driving?
Sorry to have been away from the Glen, have new scans to post soon...

:wave: Welcome to TNF, Patrick! Wonderful photos, you'll do well here and we're glad to have you.

[and Thanks for the nice comment about my Greg Moore photos, I may do a thread on him soon so please tell me if you have anything of him.]

re: Watkins Glen: Thanks for the update E1 - glad to hear all's well with you mate. :up:

re: Penske photos, Patrick Morgan: Absolutely - beautiful pictures of a favorite car and team.

re: Greg Moore: I look forward to it and will be glad to assist as able.

#2253 Patrick Morgan

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 13:56

Many thanks for the welcome!

They really are great photos, there are a few more if you're interested... PC-26 was/is one of the best looking cars around.

In the mean time here are some PC-19 pictures. These were taken last year by Pete Austen for Vintage Racecar - again only one of the moving shots was actually used which was a shame.

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Penske PC-19 - Image by Pete Austin by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

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Penske PC-19 Overhead by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

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Penske PC-19 on Sywell runway by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

#2254 E1pix

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 14:23

re: Watkins Glen: Thanks for the update E1 - glad to hear all's well with you mate. :up:

re: Penske photos, Patrick Morgan: Absolutely - beautiful pictures of a favorite car and team.

re: Greg Moore: I look forward to it and will be glad to assist as able.

Thanks Bro, off to bed now after another 20-hour workday. 1,000+ since 11-1. Damn, I am sooooo underpaid.  ;)

Agreed! [and we need this Patrick guy to stick 'round here. :) ]

Thanks B, haven't heard back for approval, we'll talk soon. Soooo much else to do, but on the hope agenda. :wave:

#2255 Patrick Morgan

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 14:49

Forgive me if this is overload on a limited subject! I'll have to dig out some period pictures at some point...

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PC-26 Front High by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

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PC-26 Rear High by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

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Mercedes-Benz IC108D by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

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PC-26 Sky by dtperformanceltd, on Flickr

And for those not completely fed up yet....





#2256 JacnGille

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 15:38

... when will we learn about text-driving?

Far too many people have to learn the hard way, and, too often involving others in their mistakes.

#2257 E1pix

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:13

Far too many people have to learn the hard way, and, too often involving others in their mistakes.

:wave: As a wise friend says in a jestful manner... 'that's for certain-sure.' :up:

[I haven't forgotten about you, JnG, will write asap, I owe about 30 people letters even though I'm working 80-hour weeks on end!]

#2258 B Squared

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:55

After nearly one year since part three, Speedtv posts part four of Jeff Krosnoff: Stay Hungry

http://auto-racing.s...tay-hungry-pt-4

#2259 E1pix

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 18:28

Thanks, Brian. Good article, still sad after all these years.

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#2260 LittleChris

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 20:27

Thanks from me too Brian.

#2261 DogEarred

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:33

After nearly one year since part three, Speedtv posts part four of Jeff Krosnoff: Stay Hungry

http://auto-racing.s...tay-hungry-pt-4



Yes, thanks also.

I have never forgotten watching his unfortunate demise on tv & although knowing his name & just a little of his racing history, this article fills in some background & elevates him in my opinion.
It was indeed one of the main points of interest watching his progress that year.

#2262 mscheeres

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:50

I don't know if this is the correct thread so shoot me if I should've posted it somewhere else...
While digging through old television guides I found a couple of interesting things:

The first Indy 500 race coverage on ABC was not in 1965 but in....1962! ABC have shown the 'Speedway Through the Years' film on May 22, 1962, a documentary about previous Indy 500s. Narrated by Tom Carnegie.

On January 10 1964, Australian ABV have shown a 30 minute program called 'Indianapolis Car Races'. Would this be the 1963 Indy 500?

Local channel KPTV-12 have shown the 1964 Indianapolis 500 on May 24, 1965, two weeks before the first Indy 500 race tape-delayed broadcast on ABC during World Wide of Sport.

The 1968 Indianapolis 500 has at least been twice on ABC...June 15 and July 27.


If only VCRs came 30 years earlier :|

#2263 B Squared

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 13:37

Jeff Krosnoff, Stay Hungry Pt. 5:

http://auto-racing.s...ay-hungry-pt-5/

#2264 E1pix

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:11

Thanks Again, Brian...

Very compelling yet very sad read. Beats forgetting any day, though. We need more "real deal" American shoes.

#2265 B Squared

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:23

Speed concludes the Jeff Krosnoff series with part 6:

http://auto-racing.s...ay-hungry-pt-6/

#2266 HistoryFan

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 21:42

Edmonton 2012 - the first race without yellow flaggs since?

#2267 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:09

Edmonton 2012 - the first race without yellow flaggs since?



Well, a few years ago Dario Franchitti won a championship because of winning the final race of the season that had no yellow flags either. And he was about the only one and most certainly the only title contender (Dixon and one of the Penske guys were the two other ones) who managed to do the race without an additional splash & dash.
Can't remember the year anymore but put a gun on my chest and I would have said 2009.
It was an oval race but I don't know the venue anymore either.


(So much for my interest in recent Indycar racing history....)

henri

#2268 Michael Ferner

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 15:46

That's still a hell of a lot more than what I remember, Henri! I didn't even know that Franchitti won a championship... :lol:

#2269 E1pix

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 22:31

I didn't even know that Franchitti won a championship... :lol:

Who?  ;)

#2270 Henri Greuter

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:07

That's still a hell of a lot more than what I remember, Henri! I didn't even know that Franchitti won a championship... :lol:



I saw that race, more or less by accident in a highlight report on Dutch TV. I must admit, because of the title being on the line and all the strategy involved it was a damned good race. You knew that in case of a yellow too early in that final part of the race Franchitti was done and in the last laps of the race you knew that in case of a yellow he was home and dry because of a yellow flag finish. But if not, would he make it???

For what I remember to be such an exciting race to watch I should have known in which year it took place.....


But other then that Michael, I must admit that there has been a time in which I knew every 500 winner and the year he won, save those of the Junk formula years. But the ones from after 1995 I have difficulties to remember them too. Must do a lot of thinking to remember the most of them there are a few I don't remember instantly....
Do you perhaps remember that first Indy race game released in about 1990 for the then current computers? To enter the game you got to see a picture of a winning car and you were asked about either the year, name of the driver, time elapsed for the distance or the average speed over the distance.
At work where we had an illegal copy running, I was a very popular colleague since I knew 50% of all answers (drivers name or the year) so that the game could be started
For the time that was a damned good game, nowadays we laugh about it as being so simple. if you can find a PC primitive enough to run it on to begin with.


Henri






#2271 William Dale Jr

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:44

It was at Homestead in '09, Briscoe and Dixon were the other two contenders for the title, and all three of them ran away and hid from the field that day IIRC. But Franchitti hung back, saved fuel, and took home the big prize.

#2272 Henri Greuter

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 13:17

It was at Homestead in '09, Briscoe and Dixon were the other two contenders for the title, and all three of them ran away and hid from the field that day IIRC. But Franchitti hung back, saved fuel, and took home the big prize.



Thanx William,


Henri

#2273 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:22

Do you perhaps remember that first Indy race game released in about 1990 for the then current computers? To enter the game you got to see a picture of a winning car and you were asked about either the year, name of the driver, time elapsed for the distance or the average speed over the distance.
At work where we had an illegal copy running, I was a very popular colleague since I knew 50% of all answers (drivers name or the year) so that the game could be started
For the time that was a damned good game, nowadays we laugh about it as being so simple. if you can find a PC primitive enough to run it on to begin with.


Sure, I remember that!!! :love: :love: :love:

Yes, that "copy protection" was a real laugh for guys like you and me :lol: :lol:

#2274 Lemnpiper

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 06:36



Good Day All ,


I was wondering if Hurtibise's Mallard holds the fastest timed lap at Indy for a roadster Indy car ,Or did the Maxxon or some other front engined Indy car time a faster lap at Indy? Does anyone know what the top speed was.
Did Herk turn a faster lap the years he didnt qualify /or crash while qualifiyng the Mallard?


Pardon me if this is answered in the forum elsewhere , but in attempts to find an answer all my searches came up empty.


Thanks Paul

#2275 B Squared

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:32

Donald Davidson to speak at the International Motor Racing Research Center:

INDY 500 HISTORIAN DONALD DAVIDSON FEATURED SPEAKER AT IMRRC AUG. 25
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WATKINS GLEN, N.Y. (Aug. 2, 2012) – Donald Davidson, longtime historian at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, will be the featured speaker at the International Motor Racing Research Center on Saturday, Aug. 25.

Davidson is considered the preeminent expert on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the Indianapolis 500 and the United States Auto Club.

The Racing Research Center is a non-profit 501©3 charitable organization founded in 1999 and located in Watkins Glen, N.Y., also home of the Watkins Glen International race track. It is recognized as a world-class leader in the collection of materials representing the documentary heritage of amateur and professional motor racing.

Davidson’s appearance to discuss the famed 500-mile race held at one of the world’s most recognized race tracks is being presented in the third installment of the Center’s 2012 Center Conversations series, “America’s Great Tracks.”

The free talk begins at 1 p.m. at the Center at 610 S. Decatur St., Watkins Glen, and is open to all.

Also slated to speak is car collector and publisher Joseph Freeman, who will cover the “Roadster Era” at the Indianapolis 500. His Joe Hunt Magneto Special, a front-engined “Watson Copy” roadster that raced in the 500 in 1960, is now on display at the Center.
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“Davidson is a legend in the world of Indianapolis racing. He’s a giant,” said Center Governing Council member and award-winning motorsports author Michael Argetsinger. “His statistical knowledge of all things Indy 500 is unparalleled in the sport, as well as his ability to enthrall the audience with his stories.”

Davidson has been historian for the Indianapolis Motor Speedway since 1998, but his involvement with the track began decades earlier.

A serious race fan from afar, he attended his first Indianapolis 500 in 1964. Traveling from his home in England, Davidson took with him a deep knowledge of the series, including knowing the results of every race and much about every driver who had ever competed in an Indy 500.

He had written before his arrival to track radio announcer Sid Collins and was invited to the booth, becoming a big hit with the crowd.

At the next year’s race, Davidson again joined Collins in the announcer’s booth. A few days after the race, he was hired by USAC as a statistician, a position he held for 31 years.

Davidson’s career in radio includes decades of shows about racing. His career as a writer includes his “Autocourse Official History of the Indianapolis 500,” co-authored with Rick Shaffer and published in 2006, as well as many magazine articles and collaborations with other book authors.

Davidson was inducted into the Auto Racing Hall of Fame at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 2010. At the time, he was one of only 25 who were living and one of only two living who were never a participant.

Car collector Freeman is owner of Racemaker Press, specializing in books about vintage racing. He is a vintage racer and former president of the Society of Automotive Historians.

Freeman also is past president of the Larz Anderson Auto Museum in Brookline, Mass., and is a car show judge.

The talks by Davidson and Freeman continue the mission of the Racing Research Center to preserve the history of motorsports in all series, at all tracks.

The final talk in the “America’s Great Tracks” series will be on Oct. 13 and presented by Tom Schultz, historian at Road America since 2000.


#2276 Magoo

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:35

Here's a fun item for all the questions and what-ifs it introduces about champ car racing in the '90s. Or maybe it wouldn't have changed anything except the name on the valve covers. Hmmm. There's nothing more fun than historical speculation, so discuss!

In 1991, a Buick Ilmor V8 Indy car engine got to at least the talking-and-pitching stage. Our own Mr. Matthews was commissioned to do the drawings. Here's the story:

The Buick Ilmor Indy V8 that never was | Mac's Motor City Garage.com


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#2277 Henri Greuter

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:55

Here's a fun item for all the questions and what-ifs it introduces about champ car racing in the '90s. Or maybe it wouldn't have changed anything except the name on the valve covers. Hmmm. There's nothing more fun than historical speculation, so discuss!

In 1991, a Buick Ilmor V8 Indy car engine got to at least the talking-and-pitching stage. Our own Mr. Matthews was commissioned to do the drawings. Here's the story:

The Buick Ilmor Indy V8 that never was | Mac's Motor City Garage.com


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No offence intended OK?
To some extent this is very old news.
I was told by a friend of me that he had read in the 1992 Hungness yearbook a line in the pre-May part that the new for 1992 Ilmor engine was considered to be named Buick. But eventually it became Chevy after all, that was the Chevy\B engine that went in the 1992 Penske PC21 and ws exclusive to Team Penske.
I checked it out and indeed, you can find it in the 1992 Hungness already.
But to read more about it is of course very funny, thanks for posting the link!

Henri

#2278 Magoo

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:21

No offence intended OK?
To some extent this is very old news.


The point is that for years it was a rumor. Now here is some documentation. If you were around Indy car racing at the time and remember all the various rumors, you might get a kick out of it.

#2279 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 13:12

2013 there will be a tripple Crown in IndyCar.

There was also one in the past. Can you tell me which races count to that and who won it?

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#2280 Henri Greuter

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 13:29

The point is that for years it was a rumor. Now here is some documentation. If you were around Indy car racing at the time and remember all the various rumors, you might get a kick out of it.



Yup, I must admit, you most definitely have a point there.
In fact more points than one.

Hence why it is indeed a good matter that this rumor is confirmed at last.

henri

#2281 Henri Greuter

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 13:32

2013 there will be a tripple Crown in IndyCar.

There was also one in the past. Can you tell me which races count to that and who won it?




indy 500, Pocono 500, California 500, the three 500 milers in a single season, at least in the 70s.
Only one man ever won the three races in a single season: Al Unser Sr. It were his only victories of the year too.

There could be more drivers who won each race at least once but in different years.

Henri

#2282 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:14

Thank you.

#2283 E1pix

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:24

2013 there will be a tripple Crown in IndyCar.

That's great to hear!

I assume Indy and California are two of them, where's the third one going to be?

Seems to me a better way might be Indy, and a road course, and a street course... and as wise as the latest management seems to be, perhaps this is what they're thinking. A motorhead lifer can hope... :) If so, my vote would be Indy, Long Beach, and Road America — if all the powers-that-be finally recognize once and for all that the latter should never be left off the schedule!

Edited by E1pix, 01 October 2012 - 19:25.


#2284 Woody3says

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:47

I assume Indy and California are two of them, where's the third one going to be?

Indy 500, Pocano 500, Fontana 400

Edit:just watched the Windtunnel announcement and RB said Pocano is going to be a 500 miler....didnt say if Fontana would stay 400 or go 500 too. 400 miles fits ABCs 3hr time slot so I see that staying as it was this year.

Edited by Woody3says, 02 October 2012 - 01:06.


#2285 E1pix

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:58

Thanks Woody3.

That makes sense, and only made possible by re-adding Pocono again (for the first time in what, 30 years I'd guess).

Unfortunately, all they're doing is determining the best oval driver — though it's good they're resurrecting the historic lineage of the Triple Crown. That said, it seems they already have another "all disciplines crown" in place — the Championship.

#2286 Woody3says

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:10

The TC could be huge for a small team, say Carpenter's. Win just 2 of the 3 and you pocket $250K. The full shebang and it's a cool mil.

#2287 Lemnpiper

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:45

After Ontario closed (1980?) Michigan replaced it as part of the triple crown til 1989.




Paul



hmm the perfect topic for my 500th post

Edited by Lemnpiper, 02 October 2012 - 04:46.


#2288 E1pix

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:49

... 400 miles fits ABCs 3hr time slot...

Funny thing, probably the same as 40 years ago... :)

#2289 RA Historian

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 14:04

Indy and Fontana are 500 miles, Pocono is 400, due to television time constraints.
Tom

#2290 Bob Riebe

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 22:49

To bring back the old Road America 500 road race, even with Indy cars would be interesting, at least, but the Triple Crown should be just what it is, long ovals.

#2291 E1pix

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 23:16

Yeah, you got a point there. IndyCar seems to be doing a great job getting back to its basics, so that makes sense.

#2292 DogEarred

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:07

To (re)-introduce something like this is trying to manufacture more interest in the series. Nothing wrong with that, especially as needs must.
But achievements that occur 'naturally' will recieve more lasting & greater acclaim.
e.g. winning The F1 Championship, Indy 500 & Le Mans will forever far outweigh anything in any single series. And don't get me wrong, Indycar is ,& should be even more, a great series.

#2293 E1pix

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:18

Yes DogEarred, it is definitely on the right track. It's been a long wait for us over here, and we miss the Indy Car days before the split.

It may not ever get to where it was, but it's sure looking better going into 2013 than it has for literally 18 years.

#2294 DogEarred

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:35

Yes DogEarred, it is definitely on the right track. It's been a long wait for us over here, and we miss the Indy Car days before the split.

It may not ever get to where it was, but it's sure looking better going into 2013 than it has for literally 18 years.



To my mind, the Michigan oval produced great racing, albeit somewhat dangerous. I saw a couple of great races there but also, unfortunately, Emmo get his injuries. That was an event (US500?) that rivalled the 500 for a couple of years, wasn't it?
At Indy this year, I was glad to see a great race for a change, which augers well for the future. Indy isn't always suited to spectacular racing, with 4 distinct bends - more to clever strategy in the past years.
Treated properly, things are looking better. Just waiting for the opportunity to visit Elkhart Lake...

#2295 E1pix

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:42

Haven't been to Elkhart Lake myself for 10 years now. Hope to in 2013 for the vintage race in July, sounds like there may be a good F5000 turnout. :)

Yes, after the CART-IRL split in 1996 was the "US 500" at Michigan for one or two years. It never really took off, quite sad that the better teams were in Michigan and not Indy. I think the symbolism of that ran deep and took over a decade to recover from.

#2296 Graham Clayton

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:59

By the way, does someone have photos of these drivers?


Arnd Meier at the 1998 Gold Coast Indy race:

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Source: http://www.chogan.com/cart/

#2297 Bob Riebe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 17:57

I saw a couple of great races there but also, unfortunately, Emmo get his injuries. That was an event (US500?) that rivalled the 500 for a couple of years, wasn't it?

There was one U.S. 500 in 1996 that is known mostly for the first lap crash that wiped out most the the field.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 06 October 2012 - 04:01.


#2298 B Squared

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:29

During my recent trip to the International Motor Racing Research Center in Watkins Glen, I was pleasantly surprised to see the following photo in the Collier Room. The IMRRC is honoring the memory of two friends lost; Chris Economaki and Bill Milliken. Chris is seen at the lectern at a United Racing Club (URC) event, while Bobby Marshman and his dad, George, are seen in the foreground receiving a trophy. I've seen approximately 20 of Bobby's trophys over the years, but am unfamiliar with this one. I believe that the location is at the, now demolished, Hotel Stacy-Trent (see link) in Trenton, NJ. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

http://artnam6200.tr...rent/index.html

photos: B²
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#2299 Michael Ferner

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:07

At a guess, that's Bobby receiving his Rookie-of-the-Year award in 1955. I believe Chris Economaki regularly "emcee-ed" those ceremonies.

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#2300 B Squared

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:01

At a guess, that's Bobby receiving his Rookie-of-the-Year award in 1955. I believe Chris Economaki regularly "emcee-ed" those ceremonies.


Thanks Michael.