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USAC, CART and Champ Car history


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#2301 gbl

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 20:54

Just curious if anyone has seen this two. At Meadowlands 1990 Arie Luyendyk got off the track and ran into the parking lot in front of the stadium, now watching this home clip around the 20th minute, Dominic Dobson did the same (uncaptured by TV) ???



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#2302 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 21:54

Hi,

Vinicio Salmi has provided a number of photos to myself and they are now here - http://www.oldracing.../vinicio-salmi/ - help with identifying any photos would be appreciated - Vinicio's English is not brilliant, albeit better than my Italian, so any advice or feedback would be welcome.

Edited by Richard Jenkins, 08 February 2013 - 21:54.


#2303 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 22:46

Has someone more infos about the Fronty Ford Moss drove in 1924 Indy 500?

#2304 D-Type

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 23:02

Has someone more infos about the Fronty Ford Moss drove in 1924 Indy 500?

There's a large picture spreading across 2 pages in the Robert Edwards book. Sorry, I don't have a scanner. Race no 27, darkish colour, "Barber Warnock Special".

#2305 E1pix

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:58

Hi,

Vinicio Salmi has provided a number of photos to myself and they are now here - http://www.oldracing.../vinicio-salmi/ - help with identifying any photos would be appreciated - Vinicio's English is not brilliant, albeit better than my Italian, so any advice or feedback would be welcome.

Row 3, 3rd from left looks like the "paddock" in Toronto. I believe it's a convention building, not sure;
Row 3, photo 4 is at Laguna Seca;
Row 4, photos 1 and 2 also look like Toronto, photo 3 could be Portland but that's a guess;
Row 5, photo 1 also looks like Toronto;
Row 5, photo 2 looks like Portland


#2306 Rob G

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:59

Row 5, photo 2 looks like Portland


It's definitely Portland. I agree that Row 4 Photo 3 "could be" Portland, although the car is missing some decals compared to this other photo. Maybe we're looking at a Friday picture and a Sunday picture?

#2307 Marc Sproule

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:48

Something that would help identifying the Salmi photos would be to find out at which tracks he ran.

The two Portland snaps are definitely from there. I've shot from that turn--the last one--a number of times.

The interior shot could well be Toronto but can't say positively without more info.

I don't recall seeing trees at Toronto like those in the pit shots. They make me think of Belle Isle in Detroit but would need more info to be sure.

There's one of him with a young woman. There's a red patch on her suit that might give more info about venue.

Like I said, knowing which races he ran would be a big help.

#2308 ReWind

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:51

There's one of him with a young woman. There's a red patch on her suit that might give more info about venue.

The red patch says "The Toronto Sun" - if that helps.  ;)


#2309 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 20:32

Something that would help identifying the Salmi photos would be to find out at which tracks he ran.

The two Portland snaps are definitely from there. I've shot from that turn--the last one--a number of times.

The interior shot could well be Toronto but can't say positively without more info.

I don't recall seeing trees at Toronto like those in the pit shots. They make me think of Belle Isle in Detroit but would need more info to be sure.

There's one of him with a young woman. There's a red patch on her suit that might give more info about venue.

Like I said, knowing which races he ran would be a big help.


Thanks for the help guys - Marc - http://www.champcars...almiVinicio.htm

#2310 Marc Sproule

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:25

I looked at the list of his CART races. I'm confident that it does confirm the indoor shot as being from Toronto.

I'm not sure either way if the action pics that aren't positively identified from other races are Toronto. Not enough information for me. Could be a Vancouver shot or two in there.

Wish I could have been more help.

#2311 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:09

For what it's worth it looks like the paddock in the Exhibition Hall in Toronto to me.

#2312 E1pix

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 18:57

I agree that Row 4 Photo 3 "could be" Portland, although the car is missing some decals compared to this other photo. Maybe we're looking at a Friday picture and a Sunday picture?

Astute observation. :up: I have but one image of this car with Salmi in it, taken in Sunday morning practice at Road America.

Deepening the mystery, in my image the car does have the "Idea Salute" on the cockpit sides like in photo 4-3 but the nose's Valvoline decal is seen in the position of the yellow and black square instead. As eluded to by Rob G, in photo 5-2 the car has neither Valvoline nor Idea Salute decal.

My Road America photo also does not have "Genoa Racing" or anything else on the rear wing. :drunk: We may well be seeing three tracks, though I've never been to Vancouver or Portland so can't dismiss those for photo 4-3. Definitely not Indy (this is not a revelation :lol: ), nor Road America, nor Laguna. Portland's still my "best guess" though the graphic disparities call Vancouver into question...

Edited by E1pix, 10 February 2013 - 19:00.


#2313 Marc Sproule

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:24

As I said above, photos 4-3 and 5-2 are definitely Portland.


#2314 E1pix

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:26

Whoops, misread that.

#2315 HistoryFan

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:01

Stefan and Justin Wilson will drive for Dale Doyne. I remember the Andrettis at Newman Haas, but had we two brothers in one team?

#2316 Rob G

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 00:13

Stefan and Justin Wilson will drive for Dale Doyne. I remember the Andrettis at Newman Haas, but had we two brothers in one team?

We had the Whittingtons, of course, but it was their team.

#2317 E1pix

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:56

Stefan and Justin Wilson will drive for Dale Doyne. I remember the Andrettis at Newman Haas, but had we two brothers in one team?

No, no Andrettis ever teamed up in CART, if my marbles are at least pretending to appear astute.

Michael and Mario were teammates for several years, of course.

And I'm sure you meant Dale Coyne. ;)

#2318 Michael Ferner

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 17:28

Not sure if it counts, but in the days of the two-man cars we had several brothers in the same car: Ray Gardner with Chet, Harry Meyer with Louis, Russell Snell with Overton and Bill Stapp with Babe come to mind. And Bill Endicott drove relief for his brother Harry once (or was it the other way round?). Also, Charlie Meyer was riding mechanic for his dad, Zeke. Corrado Fabi once subbed for his brother Teo, if I'm not mistaken, but again, they did not compete against each other as team mates.

#2319 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:35

There was a "Foyt" engines some centuries ago. Who built that engines? Any details?

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#2320 RA Historian

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:20

There was a "Foyt" engines some centuries ago. Who built that engines? Any details?

The four cam Indy Ford V-8. At some point Foyt took over the care of the engines and towards the end of its useful life Foyt was the only one running them as everyone else had gone to either the Drake turbo four or the Cosworth DFX.

#2321 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:32

Thank you. It's a very interesting team, I think: Not very successful although entering Indy in 1979 - and AJ Foyt is the most successful driver in IndyCar history.

#2322 Allen Brown

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:26

Thank you. It's a very interesting team, I think: Not very successful although entering Indy in 1979 - and AJ Foyt is the most successful driver in IndyCar history.


Huh?! The Ford 159ci quad cam turbo V8 became the 'Foyt' from the start of 1972 and then started 258 times up to its last starts at Texas World Speedway in 1979. It won 19 races, including one Indy 500, two Pocono 500s and three Ontario 500s. Not to mention 25 pole positions.

#2323 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:31

Sorry, I talked about the team not the engine in my second post

#2324 Marc Sproule

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:03

Pretty sure I've add some images since I last posted here. My Indy car set.....

http://www.flickr.co...57623324227456/

If I'm mistaken, then please hunt me down and send me lots of memory enhancing drugs......

All my sets....

http://www.flickr.co...681980@N03/sets

#2325 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:30

Sorry, I talked about the team not the engine in my second post


Which team?

#2326 HistoryFan

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 14:25

Foyt team

#2327 Michael Ferner

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 15:12

Foyt's team "not very successful"? Please, I know it's easier to ask dumb questions, but could you do at least A LITTLE BIT OF READING before posting!!?? ):



If Foyt wasn't successful as a team owner, then perhaps we can agree on Roger Penske being "not quite a disaster"!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 23 April 2013 - 15:16.


#2328 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 16:03

OK, just in the period that Foyt's team used the Foyt engine, AJ won six 500-mile races with it. What on earth is your definition of success?

It's fine to come here and ask questions but please use Wikipedia or similar to get some basic high-level understanding of the sport first.

#2329 Bob Riebe

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 21:12

OK, just in the period that Foyt's team used the Foyt engine, AJ won six 500-mile races with it. What on earth is your definition of success?

Plus two road races.

#2330 HistoryFan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:31

Okay sorry. I did a little bit research before and on Wikipieda I found that:
"A.J. Foyt Enterprises never won a CART-sanctioned event during its participation from 1979-1995."

That's why I asked it here.

Sorry...

#2331 Allen Brown

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:54

Okay sorry. I did a little bit research before and on Wikipieda I found that:
"A.J. Foyt Enterprises never won a CART-sanctioned event during its participation from 1979-1995."

That's why I asked it here.

Sorry...


That's a very strange article. It is written as if Indy racing only started in 1979.

It's hard to define a team as far back as the 1960s as cars had 'owners' rather than being seen as part of teams. The 'owner' of Foyt's cars was Sheraton-Thompson in the 1960s and Gilmore for much of the 1970s although the existence of A. J. Foyt Enterprises was mentioned as early as 1970 and probably did exist back to 1965 or even earlier.

#2332 B Squared

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 16:48

Bill Shaw is selling off his father's Indy 500 awards and mementos. From the Indy Star:

http://www.indystar....dad-s-treasures

#2333 B Squared

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 14:24

Friend and Indy pole sitter Scott Brayton left us 17-years ago today. Hard to believe how fast these years have gone by.

#2334 E1pix

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 20:21

As well as my friend and mentor Gordon Smiley 31 years ago this past Wednesday.

#2335 B Squared

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:44

"Indy 500 winner Mario Andretti's home reflects his legendary career" Article and photo gallery of Mario at home, from the Indy Star:

http://www.indystar....xt|IndyStar.com

#2336 ianbuddery

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 21:22

Hi,

I'm currently in the process of getting a Historic racing logbook for my 1986 March Indy car. I need to prove that the roll bar (it's original) complies with CART and/or USAC rules in 1986. Apparently, the fact that 30 of the 33 cars on the grid of the 86 Indy 500 were March 86C's is not good enough....

Could anyone here connect me to a person or organisation who might be able to help me with a copy of the 86 car regulations?

Any advice will be hugely appreciated.

Ian

#2337 xj13v12

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:23

What is specifically being questioned? Is it the original roll bar?

#2338 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:39

Hi,

I'm currently in the process of getting a Historic racing logbook for my 1986 March Indy car. I need to prove that the roll bar (it's original) complies with CART and/or USAC rules in 1986. Apparently, the fact that 30 of the 33 cars on the grid of the 86 Indy 500 were March 86C's is not good enough....

Could anyone here connect me to a person or organisation who might be able to help me with a copy of the 86 car regulations?

Any advice will be hugely appreciated.

Ian




If it comes to documentation about March itself, have you tried to contact Marchives? http://www.marchives.com/


By the way, no offence intended but 30 out of 3 cars being one and the same kind of March never happened. The closest is when in 1984 there were 29 84C's on the grid and one modified elder chassis. But in 86 there were some Lolas on the grid (6 to 7) so 30 86C's on the grid can't be right.
Nice car that 86C, a hallmark desing of the 80s. That one of them with Cosworth power still qualified in 1989 says enough to me about how good that design was.
Can you perhaps reveal which car you have as far as its history goes?


Henri




#2339 Tim Murray

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:26

According to the Popely book there were eight Lolas and one Penske on the 1986 grid, the rest being Marches. In 1984 there was one Lola, one Primus and 31 Marches, 29 of which were 84Cs as Henri siad.

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#2340 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:09

I know this doesn't really help with the question, but I doubt that the ROH rules at that time would have specified anything other than dimensional requirements - i.e. they would not have included demonstrating the ability to withstand a prescribed static load. For the sake of comparison, I don't recall that kind of (ROH) testing coming in to F1 until the 90s.

Wasn't the 86C a Newey car?

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 22 May 2013 - 09:13.


#2341 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 17:26

According to the Popely book there were eight Lolas and one Penske on the 1986 grid, the rest being Marches. In 1984 there was one Lola, one Primus and 31 Marches, 29 of which were 84Cs as Henri siad.



Popely is wrong too!!!
There were 30 Marches, (29 84C's which, as far as I can figure out is the largest number ever of a single type of car in the field before IRL rules were applied), a Primus and TWO Lolas: Mario Andretti and Danny Sullivan had Lolas that year.
Danny initially drove a DSR, a selfbuilt car by Doug Shierson Rcing but it was witdrawn from the field and Danny re-qualified a Lola then and continued to race that car for the remainer of the season.

@Nigel,

Adrian Newey was indied the primeary designer of the 86C.


Henri





#2342 Michael Ferner

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 19:04

I make it 27 March 84C, one 83C (Gehlhausen) and 82C (Firestone) each, a Primus and two Lola (as per Henri) and one Eagle (Cogan). "Only" 23 March 86C in '86 (one 85C, eight Lola and the Penske/Chevy).

#2343 Michael Ferner

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 19:18

Don't forget 1929: 23 Miller (nine FD, seven '91' and '122' each), three Cooper (close Miller copies), a Duesenberg/Miller and four pur sang Duesenberg, one Delage and Amilcar each!

Even better, 1927: 25 Miller (ten '122', eight '91' and seven FD), three Cooper and five Duesenberg!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 22 May 2013 - 19:30.


#2344 Henri Greuter

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:23

I make it 27 March 84C, one 83C (Gehlhausen) and 82C (Firestone) each, a Primus and two Lola (as per Henri) and one Eagle (Cogan). "Only" 23 March 86C in '86 (one 85C, eight Lola and the Penske/Chevy).


I stand corrected, thanks Michael.
I forgot about the Eagle. Stupid since in the past weekend I tried to do some more research on the '84 Ligier too and thus read about Cogan's car swapping.
That Ligier is a real mystery on the internet at least.


For the real knit pickers, those 27 84C's were not identical because there was at least one Buick V6 pwered version and if my memory is correct there were 2 of those in total (lack te time to verify that right now on the internet or a book. So 25 identical chassis-engine combos, I think that is the record for the Pre-IRL era.


henri

#2345 ianbuddery

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:18

I know this doesn't really help with the question, but I doubt that the ROH rules at that time would have specified anything other than dimensional requirements - i.e. they would not have included demonstrating the ability to withstand a prescribed static load. For the sake of comparison, I don't recall that kind of (ROH) testing coming in to F1 until the 90s.

Wasn't the 86C a Newey car?



Thanks for everybody's comments, the guys at Newman Haas Racing in the UK are now helping me, they've sent the 88/89 rules and are hunting for the 86. The 88/89 book only talks about dimensions, not load so I'm expecting 86 to be the same.

Apologies for the 30 out of 33 throw away comment, serves me right for believing anything I read on Wikipedia!

btw my connection to NHR arises from the Lola T700 I owned until recently, sister car to the one NHR & Andretti campaigned in '83. They are now restoring their car and mine is the only other survivor. I am delighted to see the growing interest in preserving 80's Indy cars - they've been overlooked for too long IMO.

#2346 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:46

This is, I think, a Lola T900, the earliest Indy Lola that I did. I was sort of convinced that there were earlier ones, but no. Then there was a gap before I did a short series of Lolas

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#2347 ianbuddery

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 22:49

This is, I think, a Lola T900, the earliest Indy Lola that I did. I was sort of convinced that there were earlier ones, but no. Then there was a gap before I did a short series of Lolas


that is a fantastic artwork! Photos of my T700 can be found at www.lolat700.com

#2348 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 15:24

Which team did David Hesselhoff own and when?

#2349 Henri Greuter

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 15:32

Which team did David Hesselhoff own and when?



Racing for life, 1986: driver Arie Luyendijk

Henri

#2350 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 15:52

Thank you.