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USAC, CART and Champ Car history


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#201 gbl

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 20:04

Hmm, that's one of those messy things. Freeman was also involved in the 1978 Thunder Racing entry of Jerry Sneva.

I have a little question for you: In 1989 Dick Ferguson practiced in a white 1987 chassis #47 in Indianapolis with "Lotto America" sponsorship. Could this be the Elmer Fields car of the LBGP picture?

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#202 malvi

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 20:16

To gbl
For a sorry I do not know much about that Ferguson entry(i don`t have 89 yearbook yet).
Car name was "Lotto America/Wake Up Missouri/Universal"
But I think,i can correct some 82-83 car types data(everything in internet based on Harms,but there is some errors too...) if you are interested.

Maybe somebody have information about 1983 DNQ-rs???
I have only Atlanta & Indy(from Harms site),but definitely there was more DNQ-rs(M-Ohio,Laguna Seca,Pocono).

Space/Jamieson team owner was Bill Jamieson(82-83 Eagle-Cosworth team).
I put here some scans later.

#203 gbl

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 20:29

My data is based on Phil Harmes work and the official champcar history book. I've found a lot of different informations, so I'd like to base my information on pictures and other reports - every information is welcome. I've just bought a CDROM about the 1995 season and added some more team owners like Dianne Simon:

http://67.18.8.78/CARTTEAM.png

#204 malvi

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 20:01

My try to overview Eagles run in1982

sources: Hungness Indy Yearbook,Kirby`s Cart Annual,Shaffer`s Autocourse Official History,Phil Harms database.
Kirby:"Eagle82-Chevy-Designed by John Ward,the 81&82 type Eagle first appeared in the winter 79/80,originally with a Cosworth engine in place.The Cosworth was soon exchanged for a normally aspirated,all-aluminium 355 Chevy V8 and in 81 factory entry for Mike Mosley was often very competitive,winning the June race at Milwaukee.Eagle boss D.Gurney decided to experiment with turbo ChevyV8 which proved to be an expensive mistake. The result was that the factory/AAR team
never raced in 1982 although a variety of customers made spasmodic appereances with a handful of various-specification Eagles."
In Indy AAR had a terrible time with is own #48 Eagle82-ChevyV8 turbo which were so unreliable that Mosley was never able to make a qualifyning run.By the end of the month a financially-drained Gurney had been forced to put his race team on hold for the rest of the year.
Eagle customers were:
Arciero Racing/Halsmer#66 Eagle 82 Chevy V8 tc (By Hungness new car at indy-chassii 8111)
Menard Racing/Johnson#28 Eagle 82 Chevy V8 tc(in some races listed 81-maybe Menard own 2 Eagles???)
-by Hungness at indy brand new car 8104.
B.C.V. Racing/Firestone#75 E82 normally aspirated so called "Milodon" Chevy(at indy 8106) prepared by John Buttera.
Bill Freeman Racing/Chandler#68 E82 Chevy V8 tc(new car at indy 8113).
HBK Racing/Bigelow(B.Whittington DNQ at EL)#73/27/72 E81 Chevy V8 tc ex Ray Lippers(DNQ at PHO)ex 81 Mosley`s Indy,Riverside ride& Milwaukee winner.(chassii 8103).
Jet Engineering/Chassey/Frey/Leffler#64 E81-normally aspirated Chevy.
Bill Jamieson Racing/Mead/Kneifel/Gehlhausen/Villeneuve#47/49 E81(sometimes 82-or 2 cars???)-Cosworth.
Tom Mitchells Circle Bar Truck Corral/Fillip#39 E81(but never run before Indy) Cosworth
In indy also were Teddy Yip`s Theodore Racing/Wilson#33 E81 or 82 Cosworth - DNQ and
Usona Purcell`s/Karl#32 E81 or 82 like car (sometimes called Purcell)stock block Chevy-DNQ.
Also some old 72-type Eagle-Offys made the odd start at Pocono-McElreath#23(owned by himself) and Loquasto#86(GTS Racing).Loquasto had some DNQ-s too.
Joe Hunt`s car/Krueger/Ferguson/J.Sneva#89 Eagle74 Chevy(Sometimes called Hunt-Eagle) made some races too.
And total mystery for me - Wysard car(#34 Parsons) at Cleveland - it`s not make sense for me at all ??? Could it be typo in Autocourse official history and Kirby`s yearbook at the same time???

Some questions:
Is it possible to make difference between 81 and 82 Eagles???
Maybe somebody knows how many 81/82 Eagles were built???

All additions,references and corrections are welcome.

I forgot Hamiltons Eagle Aircraft Spl -DNQ at indy

#205 gbl

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 17:02

McElreath had a 74 Eagle, didn't he?

#206 malvi

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 18:16

McElreath had a 74 Eagle, didn't he?

to gbl
Hard to say - i never saw any pics - i referenced only G.Kirby`s words from his 83 CART annual.
But i can reference my books and correct some little mistakes on Harms database/your website i have a some sort of proof.If you/or anybody else are interested of course.
I will get some scannertime within next week-if you have any specific ideas what i should scan(and i have of course),send me pm(its too much out of topic i guess).

I was probably wrong about that 1984 GTS Racing/WIT Promotions owners business-
I found it years ago from this thread - could it be mistake???(look Indy 500 statistics).

http://forums.atlasf...light=indy 1984

#207 brickyard

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 18:25

And total mystery for me - Wysard car(#34 Parsons) at Cleveland - it`s not make sense for me at all ??? Could it be typo in Autocourse official history and Kirby`s yearbook at the same time???



I have a #34 March 82C for Parsons at Cleveland, based on Phil harms. The same car was used by Parsons at the other races he drove that year.

This was something I had noticed when I bought the AUTOCOURSE CART History book, some time ago.

#208 jde

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Posted 28 April 2005 - 03:10

gbl:

FWIW, I would consider Barbara Trueman to be the owner/principal of TrueSports upon Jim's death in June '86. I'm not certain, but Steve Horne may have had a stake in the team in later years as well.

-jde

#209 malvi

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:42

Nice reading about 81 Eagles i found from trackforum...
eyer
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The first '81 Eagle, chassis #8101, was the first Jet Eagle; #8109 was the second '81 Jet Eagle. #8101 was the first '81 Eagle to incorporate titanium significantly - its tub's entire front bulkhead and complete roll assembly were titanium, e.g.

If I remember correctly, it wasn't until chassis #8105 that titanium repeated in an '81 Eagle; the second Jet Eagle also used titanium - those 3 may be the only ones.

Here's a list of 14 1981 AAR-built Eagles, what engines they were built to house and who they went to, for which driver(s):

8101 - Chevy - Jet Engineering - Steve Chassey
8102 - Cosworth - Space Racing/John Barnes/Chip Mead
8103 - Chevy - AAR/Pepsi Challenger - Mike Mosley
8104 - Chevy – John Menard - Herm Johnson
8105 - Chevy - AAR/Pepsi Challenger - Mike Mosley (Geoff Brabham, Rocky Moran)

The next 6 Eagles were built in 1981, but didn't race until 1982 (if I remember correctly):

8106 - Chevy - John Buttera - Dennis Firestone
8107 - Cosworth - Josele Garza*
8108 - Cosworth - Josele Garza*

* I don't remember at all the particulars, but Josele switched to Marchs in 1982, I believe - at least one of these two Garza Eagles (maybe both/maybe neither) may have ended-up on the Circle Bar/Chet Fillip team for '82.

8109 - Chevy - Jet Engineering - Steve Chassey
8110 - Chevy – John Menard - Herm Johnson
8111 - Chevy – Frank Arciero - Pete Halsmer

These last 3 Eagles were built in 1982 - but I don't know what became of the last two, nor do I know how many more Eagles were built in '82.

8112 - Chevy - Bill Freedman - Michael Chandler
8113 - AAR
8114 - AAR


TF [Nostaglia] forum

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: eyer ]

#210 gbl

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 10:35

So there wasn't a separate 1982 model, they we're all Eagle 81xx, like the 1972 model where a few were also built in 1973. I'll change that in my database. BTW: the Jet Eagles can be found at www.race-cars.com

#211 malvi

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 18:37

Ok I bought a scanner...
for a start...
Posted Image
source Kirby`s CART annual 1984

"Krueger spent the winter building this car out of old McLaren and Penske(Hunt`s Crysen Corp PC5)pieces only to destroy the car at the Phoenix season-opener when he was hit by Ray Lippers out of control Eagle"-1982

Posted Image

Sullivan - DSR1 Long Beach 1984

#212 malvi

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 18:57


Sneva,Krueger with his ancient Norm Halls Kingfish and ???
Could the track br Michigan or Pocono???

From Kirbys Yearbook

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:09.


#213 malvi

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 19:55

Holmes 80& unfamous Orbitor
All images: Kirby`s 1981 Cart Annual

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:09.


#214 malvi

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 15:28

All images: Kirby`s 1981 Cart Annual [/b][/quote]
Does anyone reckognize the tracks???(no indy 500 images,i guess)

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:09.


#215 fines

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 17:23

Originally posted by malvi

Does anyone reckognize the tracks???(no indy 500 images,i guess)

Well, Muther's certainly at the Glen, other than that I'm stumped atm!

#216 malvi

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 10:32

another Rager 80
from 81 kirby`s yearbook

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:10.


#217 malvi

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 10:37

Image #2 caption shoud be Herm Johnson of course...

#218 Rob Ryder

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 19:32

The Jerry Karl and Roger Rager images look like Mexico City from the colour of the barriers...

Posted Image
1970 Mexican GP

#219 TheStranger

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 02:33

Saldana and Englehart appear to be at MIS (don't take my word for it though)...

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#220 gbl

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 18:26

-Krueger / Sneva: the red car is a PC7/79: it can't be Gohr racing or the Machinists team, so possible are Scott Brayton, #37, Jerry Karl #46 or Spike Gehlhausen #27
-Saldana: no sponsors, so it could be Michigan or Milwaukee, Michigan is more likely
-Mexico pits: Jerry Karl, Bill Tempero & Dennis Firestone
-Herm Johnson: should be Phoenix because of the Armco and the white wall
-Fittipaldi: Meadowlands

I have now updated the complete results for 2000-2005, more to come later.

Wysard had an Eagle 81 at Indianapolis 1981, so that could have been their backupcar in 1982 and might have raced in Cleveland.

#221 malvi

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 21:02

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gbl
[B]-Krueger / Sneva: the red car is a PC7/79: it can't be Gohr racing or the Machinists team, so possible are Scott Brayton, #37, Jerry Karl #46 or Spike Gehlhausen #27

Its probably Gehlhausen(Alsup entry) - he had such a helmet with some sort of wings/wheels motive.
If i am right,this is Pocono.

#222 malvi

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 16:45

Some 1981 indy DNQrs...
[Tim Richmond`s PenskePC7(?)-Cosworth(bumped by B.Whittington).
After that Richmond had to pay Foyt and/or Snider to get a ride in Foyt`s backup #84,Snider just qualified after only 3 total laps of practice.

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:10.


#223 gbl

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 20:43

-The Buick car looks like the ex-Fletcher, then Tempero car, which raises the question, if he bought that car from Tempero or was a team mate.
-Ferguson is in a Mk.II, just like the Cannon picture that is now identified as Mexico City
-Richmond is in a PC7, the car that Bobby Unser used in 1979
-I have changed the "Karl"-Chassis to McLaren 16C, since it was a modified and renamed car (the Mexico City picture looks like the car he used in Indy)

#224 malvi

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 04:54

Phil Threshie in Mergard owned McLaren-Chevy

All mages from Hungness81 yearbook.

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:11.


#225 gbl

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 10:23

Jim McElreath ran a Penske three times in a race:
1979 Indy -> PC6
1980 Indy -> Phil Harmes lists a PC7, but the qualification shot and now your 1981 picture show a PC6.
1983 Atlanta -> PC7 - this has to be a different chassis since the PC6 was sold and destroyed. The PC7 is likely a Grant King copy and not an original Penske car, but I've only seen a picture of it from 2001 so far.

#226 malvi

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 10:53

Originally posted by gbl
Jim McElreath ran a Penske three times in a race:
1979 Indy -> PC6
1980 Indy -> Phil Harmes lists a PC7, but the qualification shot and now your 1981 picture show a PC6.
1983 Atlanta -> PC7 - this has to be a different chassis since the PC6 was sold and destroyed. The PC7 is likely a Grant King copy and not an original Penske car, but I've only seen a picture of it from 2001 so far.


I got PC7 from Harms data too...
For a sorry in 81 hungness yearbook entrants and car types not listed(only usual Penske-Chevy,Eagle-Offy,etc).
Seems to me same car McElreath run at Indy 80 too.
I try to find some more McElreath images when i back at home...

#227 malvi

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 11:37

Originally posted by malvi


I got PC7 from Harms data too...
For a sorry in 81 hungness yearbook entrants and car types not listed(only usual Penske-Chevy,Eagle-Offy,etc).
Seems to me same car McElreath run at Indy 80 too.
I try to find some more McElreath images when i back at home...


1983 Jim`s car called McElreath was rebodied/modified PC7 or some PC6/PC7 hybrid.
Kirby calls it McElreathPC6/PC7.
I think all 3 starts Jim made in 83,he use the same car and it is a typo in Harms data.(but i have no proof).

#228 malvi

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 13:22

From trackforum:
slinger
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: East Wareham,Ma ( end of the world)
Posts: 5019
Here's the straight skinny.The car was a Watson built copy of a Penske that featured elements of both the PC6 and the PC7.It was not a flat bottomed car from the 70s with sidepods grafted on.There was such a Watson built car but it was based on a Lightning not a Penske.

Watson wasn't the only one who built ersatz PC7s.Grant King did also and Jim McElreath had one that was listed under his own name.They were distinguishable from real PC7s in that the cockpit bulkhead containing the dash was constructed with tubing in the upper part following PC6 practice.On a true PC7,the bulkhead is a fully integrated part of the monococque structure.Otherwise,the cars are identical.The PC7s and these copies weren't merely PC6s with sidepods added.The actual sides of the monococque were entirely different.The wing mounting used on the Watson followed a trend in the late 70s whereby the center pillar was eliminated and the wing was supported by the large end plates which were affixed to a large diameter tube running across the rear of the car.It was all the rage in F1 at the time.Watson himself had used the arrangement previously as had Jim Hall,Grant King and others.In fact,the McLaren that Tom Sneva started in the front row in '79 had a similar arrangement.

Watson's Penske copy was destroyed by Simon in a monumental accident at Riverside in 1982.I saw the wreck on TV and was amazed that anyone emerged from it alive.Watson must have built it well.BTW,it was a really wild race and only four cars made it to the finish.Simon himself was placed 7th in a car that literally was removed from the track using a dust pan.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: slinger ]

#229 gbl

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 16:51

It could be this car:

http://www.motorspor...na&Y=2001&O=24#

#230 theunions

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 19:14

Originally posted by gbl
Jim McElreath ran a Penske three times in a race:
1983 Atlanta -> PC7 - this has to be a different chassis since the PC6 was sold and destroyed. The PC7 is likely a Grant King copy and not an original Penske car, but I've only seen a picture of it from 2001 so far.


Yup, that's my photo from Fontana.

I don't recall seeing any historical data posted with the car.

#231 malvi

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 19:20

About 1980 McElreath PC6/78(correct car type in Hungness yearbook)
Indy 500 history:
1978 Mike Hiss qualified for Andretti,started 33rd,finished 12th.
1979 McElreath started 19th,finished 35th.
1980 started 11th,finished 24th.

About 1983 McElreath car:
Michigan&Pocono car everywhere listed as McElreath-Cosworth,but Atlanta car:
Harms calls it PC7
Autocourse CART History calls it McElreath
Kirby`s 1984 Cart Annual calls it McElreath
Indy Car Racing magazine oct 1983 calls it McElreath/Penske PC6/7
Hungness 1983 : McElreath left his PC/Cosworth at home after finishing 11th at Atlanta,stating he would run as many races as he could this year"after counting my money".
For a few weeks i have a 1984 media guide... will see...
I do not have any pics of this car.

#232 malvi

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:02

Some more 1981 Indy DNQrs...
[Bagley & Armstrong self-built Armstrong-Chevy

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:11.


#233 gbl

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 10:28

These are all very modified cars.
-the Mahler Eagle looks like a 74 model, not the ex-Devin 72 model he used in 1979.
-No idea about the Rassey - M16, but it did have a very small engine, didn't it?
-The Watson is easy to identify as the PC7 copy
-The Harkey car should also be an ex 74 model, but I'm not sure at all
-I've never heard about the Armstrong before. Sherman Armstrong seemed to be very eager to get a competitive car. He had 3 Lolas, then ordered the Orbitor from March (wasn't very happy with it) and then finally built his own car, right? Any idea about the engine (I see a popup valve)?

#234 malvi

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 12:33

Car names are "copy/paste" from original entry list and could be not very accurate(engine changes etc).
I try to find somthing more exact when i back from work.

#235 malvi

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 17:19

I can`t add much

[B]These are all very modified cars.
-the Mahler Eagle looks like a 74 model, not the ex-Devin 72 model he used in 1979.

The Mahler #93 car assigned to Frank Weiss(hard to say was Weiss on track or not-probably was????)

-No idea about the Rassey - M16, but it did have a very small engine, didn't it?

Picture caption is: After a long absence Louis Rassey returned with Larry Rice.
As much i know Rassey was car owner as back as 1948?- maybe somebody can tell us more???
I do not know much about AAA/USAC era.
Was he engine builder or tuner too ???

Hamiltons car was ex Hopkins Riley

-The Watson is easy to identify as the PC7 copy
-The Harkey car should also be an ex 74 model, but I'm not sure at all
-I've never heard about the Armstrong before. Sherman Armstrong seemed to be very eager to get a competitive car. He had 3 Lolas, then ordered the Orbitor from March (wasn't very happy with it) and then finally built his own car, right? Any idea about the engine (I see a popup valve)?

1980 Armstrong was at indy with 3 Lolas+ old Wildcat Mk2(Gary B. 3rd place!)
1981 2 Lolas #44Leffler & #45 MacDonald,same old Wildcat-DGS #46 Vogler and this #43Bagley`s Orbitor for some reason called Armstrong(Hungness & trackside report).

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:11.


#236 gbl

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 18:36

The car looks similar to the Orbiter but not 100%,

here's something from trackforum, doesn't sound as if they ever took that car back to Indy:

http://www.trackforu...?threadid=50038

and another quote:

Again, Sherm Armstrong's in-house car (by Pete Swingler?) in 1981-82...



#237 malvi

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 19:45

Hmm,Hmm
Yep, Orbitor/Orbiter = Armstrong was my wild guess - cars are pretty similar and I`m not a car specialist either.
1981 is hardest year for me to put together owners/sponsors/cars - its real mess.
[I`m not sure Kraines had is own team in 81- old Cannon`s cars does not fit his team at all.
My opinion is MK started his own operation at 82 with 9B Penskes & #18 & 99.
I read from somewhere(probably trackforum) 18 an 99 are lucky nr-s in jewish (Kraines) culture but it could be only guess...

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:12.


#238 gbl

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 21:24

I only have the results of the pitstop competition and it lists for 1981: Larry Cannon / Kraco Racing
You are right about the chassis MkI and PC7
Is the last picture from Cleveland 1982?

#239 malvi

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 03:59

[About Cannon& balloon - looks like airport for me too -but not 100% sure.

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:12.


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#240 gbl

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 21:07

Well, if that picture is from a book from 1981 then it can't be 1982 :) - where is it from?

I just noticed that the two PC6 had different noses, interesting...

#241 Rob G

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 23:43

Originally posted by gbl
Well, if that picture is from a book from 1981 then it can't be 1982 :) - where is it from?

To me it looks more like it could have been taken at a promotional photo shoot rather than a race. If that's true it could be anywhere.

#242 theunions

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 20:18

Originally posted by Rob G

To me it looks more like it could have been taken at a promotional photo shoot rather than a race. If that's true it could be anywhere.


Yes, that is a Dennis Torres promo photo, taken from an article about Dennis.

#243 malvi

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 11:47

To gbl and others...
My try to overview Eagles run in 1983.(There is some little errors in Harms data, I try to fix.)
Sources: Kirby`s Cart yearbook1984,Cart 1984 Media Guide,Hungness Indy Yearbook 1983,Autocourse Cart History,Indy Car Racing Magazine 1983,Phil Harms database.
A development of Chevy-povered Eagle of 80,81 and 82 ,the Eagle 83(sometimes called GR4) was built exclusively for Galles Racing and Unser Jr. Engineered by Trevor Harris the 83 version didn`t appear until Indianapolis.(In Atlanta Unser Jr drove older 82 version - this car was actually on track in Indy too, but did not go through technical inspection).Unser qualified 5th fastest but had trouble finding any consistent handling during the race.The problem tended to continue over the season and although the car was often very fast it never won the race.Rather than using the traditional venturi-shaped underbody to generate downforce, the Eagle continued to use what Harris and Gurney called BLAT(Boundary layer adhesion technology).
All additions and corrections are welcome

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:13.


#244 gbl

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 20:43

Here's a picture of Al Unser @ Milwaukee - in a March 83C:

http://greenfieldgal...images/i217.JPG


Dick Simon in 1981(?). The PC7 in front and the 1980 (?) car at the background, they must have used both cars.

Posted Image

The Circle Bar car is a Eagle 83, too.

#245 malvi

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 09:19

to gbl
I guess you are right about Fillip,it was mistake on Kirby`s 84 yearbook.
Some 1983 corrections...
Bill Whittington`s car he run 3 times in 83 listed everywere(except Harms) as March 81-83C(or 81/83C).
It was a hybrid car with 1981 tub(to be accurate-chassis was the first one produced-March 81C- 01),with 83 bodywork and 1982 suspension.
Don Whittington car was another hybrid listed everywere 81-83C too.
Provimi Veal second Indy 500 entry(Firestone) car was another hybrid - March 82C with 83C bodywork(listed usually March 82/83C).Story behind that entry is interesting too - consortium gentlemen consisting ex race drivers Parnelli Jones,Bill Simpson(safety equipment mogul ) and actor Gene Hackman put money together to contract Provimi team to lease their second car for this race only.
John Mahler`s car-ex Pete Swingler designed and Gary Irvin owned car called Lion SR2 in 1983(Mahler probably redesigned that car a bit).

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:13.


#246 malvi

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 09:42

All images from Hungness 1983 yearbook.

#247 Allen Brown

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 12:12

I'm curious about the Watson as a "Watson 82" appeared in Can-Am about 1986. I know about the one-off 1977 car and the one-off (?) 1978 car but what cars did Watson build between 1979 and 1983?

Allen

#248 gbl

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 20:16

Well, Bill Finley modified an Eagle 81 as far as it looks or built a replica.

Well Allen, the 1980 car in my picture looks like a 77/78 car with added sidepods, don't know if it was a new chassis.
In 1981 we have the PC7 copy and probably the 1980 car.
In 1982 they must have used the PC7 until the crash at Riverside. Don't know about the second car at Pocono and what they used after Riverside.

The 1983 car #8 in the picture above is a March 82C copy with Watson (F1 style) rear wings. There were a few other Watsons entered in 1983 but no information yet.

I wonder if guys like Watson or Grant King or Penske (PC5) ever ran into copyright issues with their nearly 100% copies???

#249 malvi

malvi
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Posted 29 May 2005 - 19:54

Some more 1981 Indy 500 DNQ-rs...
Copyright - Hungness 1981

Edited by malvi, 13 April 2011 - 11:13.


#250 gbl

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 20:21

The Hopkins car could also have a Chevy turbo.

Posted Image

IAM - Chassis 1980 (old ad with probably Phil Threshie @ Indy)

Posted Image

I need help with this strange picture (found at ebay), the original caption was "John Malloy at Las Vegas". It looks like a Lightning. There was such a car with Phil Caliva driving, possibly owned by John Malloy and sponsored by Mitchell Engineering but they are not listed at the Las Vegas races - any idea?