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[ricardo1954]

Fines :

I have the results of Brazilian Super Vee Championship of the years 1974/1975 :

1974 -

September/15 - Goiânia -

1 - Ingo Hoffmann - Magnum-Kaimann - 36 laps
2 - Ricardo Mansur - Magnum-Kaimann - 36 laps
3 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 35 laps
4 - Newton Pereira - Newcar - 35 laps
5 - Milton Amaral - Heve - 35 laps
6 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 33 laps
7 - Eduardo Celidônio - Magnum-Kaimann - 26 laps
DNF:
Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 23 laps
Ricardo Di Loreto - Magnum-Kaimann - 23 laps
Francisco Feoli - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
Claudio Dudus - Magnum-Kaimann - 11 laps

September/22 - Brasília -

1 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 24 laps
2 - Newton Pereira - Newcar - 24 laps
3 - Milton Amaral - Heve - 24 laps
4 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 24 laps
5 - Ricardo Mansur - Magnum-Kaimann - 24 laps
6 - Eduardo Celidônio - Magnum-Kaimann - 24 laps
7 - Ricardo Di Loreto - Magnum-Kaimann - 24 laps
8 - Ingo Hoffmann - Magnum-Kaimann - 20 laps
DNF :
Luis Moura Brito - Manta - 13 laps
Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 10 laps
Maurício Chulan Neto - Heve - 8 laps

October/13 - Interlagos -

1 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 18 laps
2 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 18 laps
3 - Ricardo Mansur - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
4 - Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 18 laps
5 - Eduardo Celidônio - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
6 - Milton Amaral - Heve - 18 laps
7 - Ricardo Achcar - Polar - 18 laps
8 - Newton Pereira - Newcar - 18 laps
9 - Claudio Dudus - Magnum-Kaimann - 14laps
DNF :
Ricardo Di Loreto - Magnum-Kaimann - 6 laps
Amandio Ferreira - Polar - 6 laps
Ingo Hoffmann - Magnum-Kaimann - 5 laps
Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Magnum-Kaimann - 5 laps
Mauricio Chulan Neto - Heve - 4 laps
Claudio Mueller - Mueller 742 - 0 laps
DNS :
Nelson Piquet - Polar - Your father dead in october/12.

November/17 - Tarumã

1 - Ingo Hoffmann - Magnum-Kaimann - 45 laps
2 - Eduardo Celidônio - Magnum-Kaimann - 45 laps
3 - Mauricio Chulan Neto - Heve - 45 laps
4 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 45 laps
5 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 45 laps
6 - Newton Pereira - Newcar = 45 laps
7 - Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 41 laps
8 - Amândio Ferreira - Polar - 39 laps
DNF :
Ricardo Mansur - Magnum-Kaimann - 33 laps
Jan Balder - Magnum-Kaimann - 19 laps
Milton Amaral - Heve - 18 laps
Claudio Dudus - Magnum-Kaimann - 12 laps
Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 7 laps
Cláudio Mueller - Mueller 742 - 6 laps
Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Magnum-Kaimann - 3 laps
Ricardo Di Loreto - Magnum-Kaimann - 2 laps

November/24 - Cascavel -

1 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 45 laps
2 - Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Magnum-Kaimann - 45 laps
3 - Eduardo Celidônio - Magnum-Kaimann - 45 laps
4 - Amândio Ferreira - Polar - 45 laps
5 - Ricardo Di Loreto - Magnum-Kaimann - 45 laps
6 - Jan Balder - Magnum-Kaimann - 45 laps
7 - Milton Amaral - Heve - 44 laps
8 - Claudio Dudus - Magnum-Kaimann - 43 laps
DNF :
Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 33 laps
Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 33 laps
Mauricio Chulan Neto - Heve - 32 laps
Newton Pereira - Newcar - 28 laps
Ingo Hoffmann - Magnum-Kaimann - 10 laps
Ricardo Mansur - Magnum-Kaimann - 10 laps
Marcos Troncon - Polar - 3 laps

December/01 - Interlagos -

1 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 18 laps
2 - Mauricio Chulam Neto - Heve - 18 laps
3 - Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
4 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
5 - Eduardo Celidônio - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
6 - Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 18 laps
7 - Amândio Ferreira - Polar - 18 laps
8 - Ingo Hoffmann - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
9 - Ricardo Di Loreto - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
10 - Jan Balder - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
11 - Claudio Dudus - Magnum-Kaimann - 18 laps
12 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 17 laps
DNF -
Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 11 laps
José Luís Menezes - Magnum-Kaimann - 8 laps
Newton Pereira - Newcar - 6 laps
BenjaminRangel - Polar - 4 laps
Milton Amaral - Heve - 2 laps
Ricardo Mansur - Magnum-Kaimann - 1 lap

Final Result -

1 - Marcos Troncon - 20
2 - Francisco Lameirão - 19
3 - Ingo Hoffmann - 18
4 - Nelson Piquet - 16
5 - Eduardo Celidônio - 15
6 - Ricardo Mansur - 12
7 - Mauricio Chulan Neto - 10
Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - 10
Newton Pereira - 10
10 - Milton Amaral - 7
11 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - 3
Amândio Ferreira - 3
Benjamin Rangel - 3
14 - Ricardo Di Loreto - 2
15 - Fausto Dabbur - 1
Jan Balder - 1

Ricardo Cunha

[fines]

Brilliant! Thank you very much!

[ricardo1954]

fines :

Observations for the Brazilian Formula Vee season in the year of 1974 :

The Magnum-Kaimann chassis is a copy of the Austrian Kaimann, licensed by the brazilian constructor Alexandre Guimarães.
The Heve chassis are constructed by the Ferreirinha brothers, in Rio de Janeiro.
The Polar chassis are constructed by the drivers Ricardo Achcar and Ronaldo Rossi in Rio de Janeiro.
The Newcar is a Formula Ford modificated by the driver Newton Pereira.

Marcos Troncon, the 1974 champion, raced only four races in single-seat cars before win the championship. He is an ex brazilian Kart Champion.

The results of the 1974 champion are researched in the brazilian magazines Quatro Rodas and
Auto Esporte.

Below are some results of the 1975 season ( By Auto Esporte magazine)

March/16 - Interlagos -

1 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 18 laps
2 - Eduardo Celidônio - Kaimann - 18 laps
3 - Mario Pati Jr. - Polar - 18 laps
4 - Jan Balder - Kaimann - 18 laps
5 - Milton Amaral - Heve - 18 laps
6 - Sergio Benoni Sandri - Avallone - 18 laps
7 - Ricardo Di Loreto - Kaimann - 18 laps
8 - Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 18 laps
9 - Norman Casari - Polar - 18 laps
10- Antonio Freire - Kaimann - 18 laps
11- Francisco Gabriel Neto - Polar - 18 laps
12- Luiz Celso Gianini - Polar - 18 laps
13- Newton Pereira - Newcar - 17 laps
14- Claudio Cavallini - Kaimann - 16 laps
15- Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 16 laps
16- Amândio Ferreira - Polar - 15 laps
17- José Luis Matos Pimenta - Polar - 14 laps
18- Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Heve - 13 laps
19- Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Kaimann - 13 laps
DNF -
Marcos Troncon - Polar - 7 laps
José Pedro Chateaubriand - Kaimann - 7 laps
Luis Antonio Siqueira Veiga - Polar - 6 laps
Manoel Semião - Kaimann - 6 laps
Ricardo Achcar - Polar - 6 laps
Pedro Muffato - Avallone - 6 laps
Nivaldo Trama - Kaimann - 4 laps
Ricardo Conde - Kaimann - 4 laps
Edson Yoshikuma - Polar - 2 laps
Nelson Piquet - Polar - 2 laps
Ricardo Mansur - Kaimann - 2 laps
Mauricio Chulan Neto - Heve - 2 laps

July/06 - Tarumã -

1 - José Pedro Chateaubriand - Kaimann - 25 laps
2 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Kaimann - 25 laps
3 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 25 laps
4 - José Renato Catapani - Avallone - 25 laps
5 - Sergio Benoni Sandri - Avallone - 25 laps
6 - Norberto Januzzi - Avallone - 25 laps
7 - Amandio Ferreira -Polar - 25 laps
8 - Rafaele Rosito - Polar - 25 laps
9 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 25 laps
10- Milton Amaral - Heve - 25 laps
11- Claudio Cavallini - Kaimann - 25 laps
12- Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 24 laps
13- Mauricio Chulan Neto - Polar - 24 laps
14- Eduardo Celidônio - Kaimann - 24 laps
15- Jan Balder - Kaimann - 23 laps
16- Peter Schultz Wenk - Polar - 23 laps
17- Luis Moura Brito - Polar - 21 laps
18- Nelson Piquet - Polar - 21 laps
19- Ricardo Achcar - Polar - 19 laps
20- Luis Giobbi - Heve - 18 laps
21- Pedro Muffato - Avallone -17 laps
DNF -
Valter Jaconelli - Avallone - 15 laps
Marcos Tideman Duarte - Avallone - 14 laps
Ricardo Di Loreto - Kaimann - 6 laps
Luis Antonio Siqueira Veiga - Polar - 5 laps
Mario Pati Jr. - Polar - 5 laps
Antonio Freire - Kaimann - 0 lap
Newton Pereira - Newcar - 0 lap
Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Heve - 0 lap


August/10 - Brasília -

1 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Kaimann - 20 laps
2 - José Pedro Chateaubriand - Kaimann - 20 laps
3 - Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Heve - 20 laps
4 - Amândio Ferreira - Polar - 20 laps
5 - Sergio Benoni Sandri - Avallone - 20 laps
6 - Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 20 laps
7 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 20 laps
8 - Mauricio Chulan Neto - Polar - 20 laps
9 - Luiz Antonio Siqueira Veiga - Polar - 20 laps
10- Pedro Muffato - Avallone - 20 laps
11- Eduardo Celidônio - Kaimann - 20 laps
12- Mario Patti Jr. - Polar - 20 laps
13- José Renato Catapani - Avallone - 20 laps
14- Jan Balder - Kaimann - 20 laps
15- Luis Moura Brito - Polar - 20 laps
16- Marcos Tideman Duarte - Avallone - 19 laps
17- Valter Jaconelli - Avallone - 19 laps
18- Murilo Pilotto - Heve - 19 laps
19- Nelson Trama - Kaimann - 18 laps
20- Manuel Semião - Heve - 17 laps
DNF -
Peter Schultz Wenk - Polar - 10 laps
Edson Yoshikuma - Polar - 8 laps
Ricardo Di Loreto - Kaimann - 6 laps
José Luis Matos Pimenta - Polar - 4 laps
Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 3 laps
Nelson Piquet - Polar - 3 laps
Milton Amaral - Heve - 3 laps
Ricardo Achcar - Polar - 2 laps
Luis Felipe Gama Cruz - Heve - 1 lap
Luiz Giobbi - Heve - 1 lap

Tomorrow I went the others results.

Ricardo Cunha

[Bonde]

Thanks, Ricardo - there's the odd familiar name in there...!

Is there any chance you could link to some picture of some of the (more obscure) cars?

IIRC, the air-cooled VW stayed in production longer in Brazil (and even later in Mexico?) than in Germany - but did the Brazilians change 'from air to water' (Golf) concurrently with Europe - and were the Brazilian rules identical with the European rules?

[fines]

Originally posted by ricardo1954
fines :

Observations for the Brazilian Formula Vee season in the year of 1974 :

Hey, you're a mindreader! I was going to ask exactly these questions!

Bonde, the water-cooled Volkswagen wasn't raced in Europe until 1978 - you're jumping ahead!

[Bonde]

Sorry I interrupted, Michael - it's just that makes of car I've never heard about before always stir my curiousity - what do they look like - and I, for whatever reason, always found the air-cooled Super Vees more interesting (the latter day water cooled variety appear to be pretty interchangeable with their F3 contemporaries), so I somehow held this rather meaningless hope that they stayed with the flat&finned engine longer in Brazil...

Carry on.

[ricardo1954]

Dears Bonde and Fines :

I'm sorry, but I don't know tecnical details with VW engines used in Brazilian Formula Super Vee,
my interest is only the races results, unfortunated.

I don't have an scanner to copy the pictures, but in the next weekend I will solicit to my son to
photograph the pictures of the cars in the magazines, with their digital machine, to include this
in my messages.

A good weekend for you!

Ricardo Cunha

[Muzza]

Beleza, Ricardo!


Answering a few questions:

Originally posted by Bonde
Thanks, Ricardo

(...)
IIRC, the air-cooled VW stayed in production longer in Brazil (and even later in Mexico?) than in Germany - but did the Brazilians change 'from air to water' (Golf) concurrently with Europe - and were the Brazilian rules identical with the European rules?

The air-cooled engine was manufactured in Brazil until 1985/6, when the production of the "Fusca" ceased (the Beetle was locally called "Fusca". Originally "Fusca", a corruption of Volks, was the universal nickname of the car, and in 1982/3 the manufacturer officially adopted such a name)

If 1980 Volkswagen launched a Golf-like car in Brazil (two-door version only) named Gol. The Gol was originally equipped with... the same air-cooled engine of the Fusca (with a displacement of 1600 cm3). Launching the Gol initially with the air-cooled engine and then reverting to a 4-in-line copied from the German Golf was one of the most stupid things Volks ever did: the air-cooled-engined Gol was terrible (noisy like hell, slow like hell) and it seriously compromised Volkswagen image in Brazil. Quite a few big whigs lost their jobs (those with strong godfathers in Wolfsburg saved their jobs but were transferred to other operations like... VW Iraq. No kidding).

Originally posted by Bonde
Sorry I interrupted, Michael - it's just that makes of car I've never heard about before always stir my curiousity - what do they look like - and I, for whatever reason, always found the air-cooled Super Vees more interesting (the latter day water cooled variety appear to be pretty interchangeable with their F3 contemporaries), so I somehow held this rather meaningless hope that they stayed with the flat&finned engine longer in Brazil...

Carry on.

Similarly to other countries, actually there were two Volkswagen formulae in Brazil: the Fórmula Vê and the Fórmula Super Vê.

- Fórmula Vê was for cars with 1300 cm3 engines and no front nor rear wing;
- Fórmula Super Vê was for cars with 1600 cm3 engines and with front and rear wings.

If I am not mistaken, the Campeonato Brasileiro de Fórmula Vê was raced from 1974 through 1981. The Fórmula Super Vê one lasted from 1974 through 1980, but the last two years were already quite poor - the launching of the Campeonato Brasileiro de Stock Cars, a touring car (and not stock car in American meaning of the term) series where all drivers raced Chevrolet Opalas (a sort of local Open Commodore) drained all media and public attention from Fórmula Super Vê, and the end of the latter was quite fast (Chevrolet dumped lots of money to support Campeonato Brasileiro de Stock Cars, whereas Volkswagen's support to Fórmula Super Vê was... zip)

Both Vee series used slick tyres (I think the 1300 cm3 cars used threaded tyres in the first two years, but my magazines are... back in Brazil, some 10000 km from me - Ricardo, please help us with this).

Ricardo, it was very nice of you listing the main Fórmula Super Vê chassis (one of them, as you know, derived from a Shadow DN1 chassis that was stolen during the Brazilian GP - as the saying goes, "only in Brazil" ). About Fórmula Vê manufacturers, there were, literally dozens of them. Those races were crazy, some six or eight or ten cars taking all turns at the same time... Hair-raising stuff.

Valeu,


Muzza

[fines]

Muzza, Formula Vê with slicks?? They always used threaded tyres in Europe and the USofA, afaik!

But thanks for the additional insight - this is fast becoming a very fascinating thread! I recall reading some snippets about Brazilian Super Vee racing in the seventies in German magazines, but nothing substantial, more the "exotic interest" kind of stories, you know!

What about the alcohol engines? Didn't Volkswagen do Brasil introduce the "booze" cars around 1980, too?

[Muzza]

Originally posted by fines
Muzza, Formula Vê with slicks?? They always used threaded tyres in Europe and the USofA, afaik!

But thanks for the additional insight - this is fast becoming a very fascinating thread! I recall reading some snippets about Brazilian Super Vee racing in the seventies in German magazines, but nothing substantial, more the "exotic interest" kind of stories, you know!

What about the alcohol engines? Didn't Volkswagen do Brasil introduce the "booze" cars around 1980, too?

Cheers, Fines,


No, the tyres were slicks, really - for Super Vê at least.

I think the smaller-engined, wingless Vê series used threaded tyres for the first years and then went the slick way as well. I am almost sure the 1300 cm3 Vês used slicks in 1977 and 1978, for example. I was only eight at the time, so I really cannot remember that, and I have not read material in these cars for at least ten years, I am sorry...

And now for something interesting... I knew I had seen this page somewhere in the web - it took me almost two hours, but I found it!

Take a look at this very nice summary (unfortunately in Portuguese only) about the history of Fórmula Super Vê written by Carlos de Paula: http://www.brazilian...om/superve.html. It is a very good short story on this series, an excellent account with beginning, middle and end.

Carlos even mentions the same reasons I listed above for the fall of Fórmula Super Vê, the raise of Campeonato Brasileiro de Stock Cars and the lack of support from Volkswagen... (I wrote an article about the history of Formula Ford in Brazil when I was working for the Blue Oval down there, back in 1992, and I had to research all the way back to the early 1960s and the stillborn Brazilian Formula Junior Championship to understand the cycles of feast and famine hat plague single-seater racing in the country. I am happy that I am not the only one that found those explanations for the end of Fórmula Super Vê. Working independently, as it seems, Carlos - who I do not know - and I found the same relationships of cause and effect! ).

Take a look at the pictures at the aforementioned page - they do show cars wearing slick tyres.

It is also worth reading (let me know if you need help with translation) the other pages written by Carlos - he is doing a very good job!

(to my delight, there seems to be a new wave of people interested in preserving the history of motorsports in Brazil - besides the restoration of the FD01, several other unique racecars have been found - apparently even another DKW Malzoni !!! - and are on the process of being restored as well, there is a number of writers working on books - I have heard of no less than twelve ongoing projects - and a few of them already hit the presses, as Jan Balder's biography, released three just four days ago. )

Cheers,


Muzza


P.S.: Fines, here in California I know of several guys running historic Formula Vees with slick Hoosier tyres, but I don't know if this cars were raced in such a configuration back in the 1970s.

[fines]

To make myself clear:

Formel V/Formula Vee - standard road tyres (threaded)
Formel Super V/Super Vee - slicks

That's how I understood it always was (in Europe and, presumably, North America).

Now to that link that doesn't work - here it is in slightly modified form: http://www.brazilian...om/superve.html. Let's try!

[fines]

Having never learnt Portuguese, I think I can at least make some sense of it : One question, though: corridas de três baterias, does that mean "races run in three heats"? If so, how was the final classification compiled, by aggregate times or a points system?

[ricardo1954]

Others results of 1975 Brazilian Super Vee :

( By Auto-Esporte magazine )


October/19 - Goiânia -

1 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 25 laps
2 - José Pedro Chateaubriand - Kaimann - 25 laps
3 - Mauricio Chulan Neto - Polar - 25 laps
4 - Eduardo Celidônio - Kaimann - 25 laps
5 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 25 laps
6 - José Renato Catapani - Avallone - 25 laps
7 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 25 laps
8 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Kaimann - 25 laps
9 - Luiz Antonio Siqueira Veiga - Polar - 25 laps
10- Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 25 laps
11- Claudio Cavallini - Kaimann - 25 laps
12- Newton Pereira - Newcar - 25 laps
13- Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 25 laps
14- Mario Patti Jr. - Polar - 24 laps
15- Luis Giobbi - Heve - 23 laps
16- Sergio Benoni Sandri - Avallone - 22 laps
17- Plinio Riva Giosa - Kaimann - 20 laps
18- Antonio Freire - Kaimann - 19 laps
19- Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - 17 laps
20- Ricardo Di Loreto - Kaimann - 16 laps
DNF -
Marcos Tideman Duarte - Avallone - 15 laps
Pedro Muffato - Avallone - 13 laps
Ricardo Achcar - Polar - 12 laps
Ronaldo Rossi - Polar - 10 laps
Nelson Trama - Kaimann - 7 laps
Jose Luis Matos Pimenta - Polar - 7 laps
Milton Amaral - Heve - 7 laps
Jan Balder - Kaimann - 6 laps
Edson Yoshikuma - Polar - 5 laps
Luis Moura Brito - Polar - 4 laps
Amândio Ferreira - Kaimann - 2 laps


November/16 - Cascavel -

Final :
1 - Eduardo Celidônio - Kaimann - 15 laps
2 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Kaimann - 15 laps
3 - José Renato Catapani - Avallone - 15 laps
4 - José Pedro Chateaubriand - Kaimann - 15 laps
5 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 15 laps
6 - Mario Pati Jr. - Polar - 15 laps
7 - Fausto Dabbur - Polar - 15 laps
8 - Edson Yoshikuma - Polar - 15 laps
9 - Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Heve - 15 laps
10- Antonio Freire - Kaimann - 15 laps
11- Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 15 laps
12- Ricardo Di Loreto - Kaimann - 14 laps
13- José Luis Matos Pimenta - Polar - 12 laps
DNF -
Luis Antonio Siqueira Veiga - Polar - 7 laps
Marcos Troncon - Polar - 4 laps
Mauricio Chulan Neto - Polar - 4 laps
Amândio Ferreira - Polar - 1 lap
DNS -
Carlos Alberto Monteiro - Polar

DNC in first and second heath -
Pedro Muffato - Avallone
Luis Dassoler - Polar
Nelson Piquet - Polar
Plinio Riva Giosa - Avallone
Claudio Cavallini - Kaimann
Milton Amaral - Heve
Alfredo Buzaid Jr. - Newcar
Jorge Comerato - Kaimann
Luis Giobbi - Polar
Luis Moura Brito - Polar
Ronaldo Rossi - Polar


December/07 - Interlagos -
( by Quatro Rodas magazine - only the 10 first drivers )

1 - Eduardo Celidônio - Kaimann - 18 laps
2 - Marcos Troncon - Polar - 18 laps
3 - Francisco Lameirão - Polar - 18 laps
4 - José Pedro Chateaubriand - Kaimann - 18 laps
5 - José Renato Catapani - Avallone - 18 laps
6 - Milton Amaral - Heve - 18 laps
7 - Luis Antonio Siqueira Veiga - Polar - 18 laps
8 - Benjamin Rangel - Polar - 18 laps
9 - Nelson Piquet - Polar - 18 laps
10- Vicenzo Jaconelli - Avallone - 18 laps

DNF -
Mario Pati Jr. - Polar
Ricardo Di Loreto - Kaimann
Fausto Dabbur - Polar
Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - Heve
Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - Kaimann
and others...


Final points of the championship :

1 - Francisco Lameirão - 28
2 - Eduardo Celidônio - 27
José Pedro Chateaubriand - 27
4 - Alfredo Guaraná Menezes - 21
5 - José Renato Catapani - 10
6 - Marcos Troncon - 6
7 - Sergio Benoni Sandri - 5
Mario pati Jr. - 5
9 - Julio Caio Azevedo Marques - 4
Mauricio Chulan Neto - 4
11- Jan Balder - 3
Amândio Ferreira - 3
Milton Amaral -3
14- Nelson Piquet - 2
15- Fausto Dabbur -1
Norberto Januzzi - 1


Ricardo Cunha

[David McKinney]

We never had FSV in New Zealand, but 1300cc air-cooled Vees always raced on treaded tyres (not threaded)

[ricardo1954]

Fines :

You are right, the races are run in 3 heaths, the final classification is in aggregate times.

In the year of 1975 only the fifth race ( November/16 - Cascavel ) is different:
Are two heaths with 15 laps each, and the nine first drivers in each heath races the final.

Ricardo Cunha

[Bonde]

Interesting thread indeed - even if moving somewhat OT!

Slick tyres were actually allowed in Formula Vee in continental Europe and Scandivaia from 1972, when the (1300ccm) regulations were updated to reflect the trends of the time - other welcome changes being the scrubbing of the 36" minimum body width rule (IIRC), permisson to cut down the front damper towers (did the looks of the cars a world of good), free choice of (wider) rims and, most importantly, rack and pinion steering, front disk brakes and 2 carbs. Some even ran wings, but apparently mostly for appearances.

In the US they have stayed faithful to the original 1200ccm regulations to this day, only recently introducing the 1600ccm alternative, Formula First; original 1200 engine and chassis parts becoming increasingly difficult to source. In US F Vee they have used slicks - very low profile tyres on standard VW Type 1 rims, dubbed 'rubber bands' for obvious reasons, since the early 1970s as well, whereas in Britain, Eire, Australia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and some Central and South American countries treaded tyres, either a control racing tyre or a high performance road tyre, are called for.

In Germany and South Africa they run 1300ccm Polo water cooled in-lines, in the other countries they run 1300 single port or 1600 double port Flat&Finned. The US, Australian and NZ (all with variations) run the 1600 in Formula First, with chassis rules similar (but not identical) to current European Formula Vee - i.e. post-1965 ball-joint front beam, R & P steering and disk brakes.

Some early US Vees ran stressed skin chassis structures, notably early Zinks and the lovely Bobsy Vega, but they were banned from 1966, IIRC, and steel tube chassis with maximum longeron dimensions of 4" diameter (used on the classic Autodynamics D13), or 4" x 4" rectangular ('ladder' type frames becoming popular again to this day,; Lynx/Caracal, Citation, Mysterian etc.) became mandatory. In Europe 'monocoques' were allowed from 1972, though relatively few have followed that route - prominent examples being Celi (IIRC), Scarab and later marks of Veemax from Finland - in Australia and NZ steel tube 'space frames' remain mandatory as in the US.

Formula Super Vee originated, like the early 1960s Formula Vee before it, in the US, in 1971. Eugene Beach was an early proponent of Super Vee, which called for tuned 1600cc double port air-cooled Flat 4 mills, free suspension but with VW engine, transmission, hubs and brakes still justifying the 'Vee' in Super Vee...which brings us back to the original thread. IIRC, Super Vee also survived longer in the US than anywhere else.

Sorry about the detour - carry on...

[fines]

Originally posted by David McKinney
(...) on treaded tyres (not threaded)

Ahh... well, thanks!

[Muzza]

Originally posted by fines

Ahh... well, thanks!

Me too!

Originally posted by fines
To make myself clear:

Formel V/Formula Vee - standard road tyres (threaded)
Formel Super V/Super Vee - slicks

That's how I understood it always was (in Europe and, presumably, North America).

Now to that link that doesn't work - here it is in slightly modified form: http://www.brazilian...om/superve.html. Let's try!

No Fines, I think in Brazil the rules for Formula Vee (the smaller, 1300 cm3, wingless cars) were different. OK, let me explain something about that first.

There were two eras of Formula Vee in Brazil. The first went from 1967 through 1969, with cars following rules similar to the pre-1972 phase in other countries explained above by Bonde. Suspension (with the archetypical front damper towers that Bonde mentioned), steering (no pinion and rack, but the sector system from the Beetle/Fusca) and brakes (drums) all had to be from the street car. Undoubtedly treaded tyres were used, and Pirelli Cinturato were the best thing available in Brazil then. Some five or six chassis makers took part on these races, and the Fitti-Vê, built by the Fittipaldi brothers with an unusual slim look, inverted and pointy nose and sweeping piece of bodywork covering the single carburettor, would dominate the races. Some other brands were Aranae (one of the owners was driver Ricardo Achcar, who in the 1970s would establish the marque Polar, as Ricardo mentioned; Polar would dominate Fórmula Super Vê in the 1970s as Fitti-Vê dominated Brazilian Fórmula Vê in the 1960s. Aranae sold most of the chassis for the 1960s era of Vees in Brazil), Jajá and Giovannini. Back in the late 1980s I prepared a complete list of constructors with an estimate of number of chassis built, but this documemt is in Brazil... : . All cars used tubular spaceframes, some with square and some with round section tubes - as far as I recall none of them were ladder-type chassis (maybe some experimental car made here or there was).

This series caused sensation when it came out in 1967 - the magazine Autoesporte played an important role trying to agglutinate things and put interests together - but it soon died out for a number of reasons, particularly the lack of support from Volkswagen (absolutely nil - and there was even a rumour that Volkswagen dealers were actually talked by into not getting involved in the building of cars or rebuilding/tunning of engines by the factory) and the fact that the main drivers that did well in this early age of Formula Vê went to race in Europe (as Emerson Fittipladi). As they were racers and organizers and promoters, the series became headless and died a quick death.

When Formula Vee (not Super Vee) returned, in the 1970s (I think the first season was 1974), it may have used treaded tyres in the first seasons (Super Vee was already using slicks), but I am almost sure that soon they begun using slicks as well (made locally by Pirelli).

I am squinting my eyes trying to remember how Formula Vee (not Super Vees) looked in Brazil in the 1970s, and they do seem to have follow the post-1972 configuration that Bonde detailed as soon as 1974. I have imprinted in my mind some pictures of an article by the magazine Autosporte about a particularly polemic race in Interlagos in 1976 and I think the little Vees already used slicks then.

In the next VARA race (http://www.vararacing.com - I couldn't make the one this weekend) I will talk with some guys that raced Formula Vee in the US in the 1970s. I think some clubs may have held races with slicks for Vees already then as well - as Bonde said.

Cheers,


Muzza

[N3NP]

Does anyone know where to find the information, data, race results, etc
of the Brazilian Super Vee Championship 1976 ?

[Muzza]

Originally posted by N3NP
Does anyone know where to find the information, data, race results, etc
of the Brazilian Super Vee Championship 1976 ?

I've got sporadic data on that season, but I'm going to Brazil in December and will try to find more.

[N3NP]

Thanks Muzza, looking forward to your information

[Sergio Sultani]

Originally posted by N3NP
Does anyone know where to find the information, data, race results, etc
of the Brazilian Super Vee Championship 1976 ?

Hi N3NP

In 1976 the "Brazilian Super Vee Championship" changed to "Brazilian Volkswagen 1600 Championship".
It had 10 rounds in 2 races each.

Here are the final results:



Here, you can find a resume of de Brazilian Super-Vê Championship (1974 and 1975)
http://www.faspnet.c...icia/3287_2.htm

More statistics in
http://www.faspnet.c...noticia_id=3287



Até logo,
Sergio.

[N3NP]

Thanks Sergio Sultani for the information, although I can not see or open the information
on my screen concerning the "Brazilian Volkswagen 1600 Championship".

The other two links are visible for me, thanks for that

Could you post it again, or perhaps better, differently,

many thanks in advance

[Sergio Sultani]

Originally posted by N3NP
Thanks Sergio Sultani for the information, although I can not see or open the information
on my screen concerning the "Brazilian Volkswagen 1600 Championship".

The other two links are visible for me, thanks for that

Could you post it again, or perhaps better, differently,

many thanks in advance

Here are the link:
http://img339.images...volkswagwh5.jpg

Best wishes,
Sergio.

[Repco von Brabham]

Maurice Chulam with Emmo Fittipaldi, 1974



Chulam, Nelson Piquet and Alfredo Guaraná



Chulam in hard figth with Nelson Piquet