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McLaren M1s


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#51 WINO

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 17:30

Gee, Twinny....

..... You sound like my wife!


WINO

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#52 David McKinney

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 17:52

I certainly see where Wino's coming from, but wouldn't have put it that strongly
Of course there's no comparison between seeing the cars in their heyday, being driven by Big Names, and the present huge-helmeted owners who are not - and most case would admit to not being - of equal skill to the originals. I was an ardent follower of all forms of racings in the 1960s and 1970s, but didn't live in a country which had F1 cars or Can-Am cars. I sure as hell would rather see them in action in a historic racing context than never having seen them at all.
As far as the "look what I did" photographs are concerned, I saw enough in publications in period not to particularly care about them now, so I don't bother looking. TNF is, after all, not just for me. If however the photographer was active in a period when fewer pictures were published, my appreciation is quite different.

Getting back on topic....
North American McLaren drivers 1965
(with date of first known (to me) appearance)
Chris Amon (works) 30 May
Ludwig Heimrath 4 June
Bruce McLaren (works) 4 June
Augie Pabst 4 June
Bud Gates 15 Aug
Charlie Hayes 29 August
Ralph Salyer 29 August
Dan Gurney 30 August (in UK)
George Wintersteen 30 August (in UK)
Phil Hill (works M1B) 10 October
Richard Macon* 17 October
Mike Goth 17 October
*Macon won the SCCA Southeast Region CSR Championship; Joe Starkey won the Southwest title, and the ARRC run-off

Apart from the works cars, McLarens were raced in the UK in 1965 by Graham Hill (for John Coombs), John Coundley and David Prophet

#53 Twin Window

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 17:56

Originally posted by David McKinney

I sure as hell would rather see them in action in a historic racing context than never having seen them at all.

Precisely.

Getting back on topic....

:up:

#54 Bruce302

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 20:12

McLaren M1B,
Chassis 30-12 (of 28 built) was driven by Peter Revson at the British GP support race for sports cars in 1966. The car was Ford powered and was one of a pair bought by American Bill Kay for himself and Revson, but sadly Kay died and the cars were later taken over by George Drummond. He later used them in '66 including Nassau Bahama, where despite brake failure, Revson achieved 3rd place.
At Las Vegas (Stardust) '66 Revson started in 9th place and finished in 4th position.

The following year, '67, the car was bought by Skip Barber who raced in the first 3 races of the Can Am series setting a lap record at Lime Rock .

Research courtesy Harry Mathews.

http://www.mathewsco...McLaren_M1B.htm

#55 Bruce302

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 20:33

Again, courtesy of Harry Mathews.

McLaren M1A, Chassis 20-01, the very first (of 24) customer (Elva) built car of the M1 series. It debuted at the London Racing Car Show, and then bought by Jaguar dealer John Coombs, for Graham Hill to drive.
After the Oct '65 LA Times GP, the car was sold to Jerry Entin, a Californian racer who in turn made the car available for the movie "Spinout" starring Elvis Presley. (neat movie too)

you can see the car here,

http://www.mathewsco...McLaren_M1A.htm

#56 Bruce302

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 20:41

And finally, again many thanks to Harry Mathews for this M1C (or Mk 3)

This is chassis 40-18 (of 25 built) and was bought by Jerry Hansen of Minneapolis.
It would appear that his only race of '67 was the Sept 3 meeting at Road America, Elkhart Lake in Wisconsin.

see this car here,

http://www.mathewsco...McLaren_M1C.htm

#57 Bruce302

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 21:10

M1B,
Chassis 30-09, Originally owned by Ken Sheppard and raced by Keith St. John under London Radio colors. (Ford 289 ? said to be ex GT 40)

6/4/66 RAC TT Oulton Park Heat 1, 11th
Heat 2 16th
21/1/67 Racing Car Show, Brands Hatch, Race 1, 1st
Race 2, 2nd
30/4/67 Guards Championship, Brand Hatch 1st


The car then passed to Bob Rose who sold it back to Trojan in 1969. The following owners ar
1970: John Jordan,
1971: Alan Brodie,
1973: Peter Taylor,
1975: Geoffrey Breakall,
1977: John Beasley,
1978: Dave Preece,
1979: Mike Harrison,
1982: Roger Williams.
1985, Massimer Collection, Germany (restored)
sold to the present owner in 1997.

#58 rosemeyer

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 22:55

Twinny great response you nail it every time.

#59 barrykm

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 06:53

Bob Olthoff campaigned an M1 in South Africa in the late 60's - an M1A I think.

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#60 Pedro 917

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 09:07

I found two pictures of Olthoff's McLaren in International Motor Racing Book # 2 and 3 :

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No mention of race / year

#61 Pedro 917

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 09:11

and also a picture of 2 McLaren-Elvas (in front of the Trojan building) ready to be shipped to America. They were valued at a price of $ 25.000 and they were to be driven by Revson and Bondurant :

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#62 barrykm

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 15:12

Thanks for the Bob Olthoff pics Pedro..!

#63 billthekat

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 16:09

While looking for something on the 1965 Bridgehampton USRRC race, found the Pete Biro article -- actually a "Technical Report" -- on the "McLaren-Elva" in the August 1965 SCG, pages 30 thru 33. Worth reading.

#64 fines

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 16:23

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Some pictures from a support race line up of the Spa Classic 6 hours event 2003 :

John Bladon in a McLaren M1 :

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Urrgh, a Schumacher helmet in a McLaren M1 - how disgusting!

#65 Pedro 917

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 17:08

That's a copy of Eddie Irvine's helmet fines and I agree, the helmet doesn't do the car much honour...

#66 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 19:29

...neither does the Tesco supermarket trolley handle rollover 'apparatus' behind the helmet...otherwise that's quite a nice looking M1A.

DCN

#67 Pedro 917

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 21:45

Found this great picture of Bruce at Nassau, 1965 :

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Source: l'Automobile April 1966

Great to learn that Michael Turner designed the bodywork!

#68 Pedro 917

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 21:50

and here are 2 pictures from chassis and engine :

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the Oldsmobile-Traco V-8 (Nassau)
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#69 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 00:09

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Some pictures from a support race line up of the Spa Classic 6 hours event 2003 :

John Bladon in a McLaren M1 :

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John Bladon's entry for Phillip Island at the end of Feb this year, is listed as M1A, chassis no.7

"...was sold to Dick Macon in the USA who campaigned it in 1965. His best result was 5th in the LA Times Grand Prix. Dick did not race the car again, as a result it is one of the very few original M1A's left"

#70 Gary C

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 01:02

...where WAS the Trojan factory ??

#71 antonvrs

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 19:23

Originally posted by Chad Raynal
Hello All,



Anton, to say that I'd love to see other pics of my car that you might have, well, that's a colossal understatement.



-Chad


Chad, here are the rest of the pictures that I could find. I know I have a couple more of the car in a slightly earlier form and when I find them I'll post them. If you want to hear war stories PM me your phone number and we'll talk.
Anton in LA

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#72 David Beard

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 19:30

Originally posted by Gary C
...where WAS the Trojan factory ??


And was it the same place in which the Heinkel bubble cars were built, under licence?

http://www.heinkel-t...ges/club.h5.jpg

#73 Bruce302

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 21:00

From billthekat:

While looking for something on the 1965 Bridgehampton USRRC race, found the Pete Biro article -- actually a "Technical Report" -- on the "McLaren-Elva" in the August 1965 SCG, pages 30 thru 33. Worth reading.



Any chance of a scan of that Bill ? I'd love to see it.


Pedro, thanks for the fantastic pics. That is the first bare chassis shot i've seen.


Anton, i'm not sure if Chad has auto notification, but i'll let him know. Prepare for a long phone call.

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#74 Bruce302

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 21:15

Sorry, credits to D Friedman for the pic,
and I have now found the thumbnail pic link.

Bruce.

#75 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 04:03

I was planning to pipe in here with all kinds of Canadian-based McLaren bios but only have time to mention that Road & Track magazine did a full road test of Charlie Hayes' Nickie McLaren Mk2 in a mid-summer issue of 1966. Should nicely complement the article mentioned previously in SCG.

#76 billthekat

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 14:43

Finally deciding that I need to wean myself from TNF as much as possible -- look at only the threads that seem worthwhile (such as this one) and ignore the rest -- and faced with the possibility being away from my research for a year or so, last night I took a long hard look at some of my projects. Something that became readily apparent was that I really needed to get cracking on the USRRC and USAC RRC material. Looking over the former, I was struck at how often the M1-series cars in America were called Mk 1s or Mk 2s or Mk whatevers by some and M1A or M1B and so forth by others, yet the sources are contemporaries.

I looked at the R&T article last night as a matter of fact, as well as other articles or discussion on the various McLaren M1 types in what I have on the bookshelves. Almost nothing on the specific identities of chassis in terms of chassis numbers in the contemporary sources. However, if you read carefully, you can figure out a good bit and get some idea of how certain of the cars moved about.

If we can shed some much needed light onto this topic, while long overdue, it will be a big help for some of us trying to get some sense of "closure" on these times. Gazillions upon gazillions of pages on F1 and only a few pages on these cars and their times.....

#77 Ted Walker

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 15:57

Manfred. Some histories of Canadian M1s would be very interesting.

#78 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 16:14

Originally posted by Gary C
...where WAS the Trojan factory ??


Trojan's works was on Purley Way near (or on? I remember going there several times but I'm none too clear on the boundaries of...) the former Croydon Airport, while initial McLaren-design production work occupied the old Frank Nichols Elva works at Rye down on the coast.

DCN

#79 antonvrs

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 17:06

I've been thinking about the 4 McLarens that Bill Robbins owned in the mid-to-late '70s and while this isn't "important" history from the time when the cars were actual weapons rather than just obsolete junk I'll throw it in anyway.
Anybody who isn't interested can stop reading now.
In the mid-'70s in Los Angeles there was an interesting period when people were using all sorts of "exotic" retired racing cars on the street. Steve Earle had a whole slew of wonderful racing Ferraris that he drove on the street from the '60s through the early '80s including a 250 TR, 250 LM, GTO and GTO'64, C-type, D-type etc.
There was a wonderful story about Billy Krause driving a Birdcage Maserati from Malibu to downtown LA so that some real estate developer could advertise that his new houses in Malibu were "only 15 minutes from downtown".
Somewhere around this time- early '70s- a group calling themselves "The Mulholland Drivers" appeared. Mulholland Drive is a twisty, winding, delightful 2 lane road that runs along the ridgeline that separates west Los Angeles from the San Fernando Valley and was a popular place for illicit midnight Grands Prix
for many years.
After a while, though, these crazies started making Banzaii runs up the 405 Freeway that runs from west LA to the Valley and now they needed straight line speed. By now, IIRC, a GTO was getting pricey- maybe $50,000 and you could buy a McLaren or a Lola T70 for maybe $5-10,000.
So Bill Robbins saw an opportunity for fun, games and profit.
The first car he bought was the one that Chad now owns. It was pretty rough by the standards of the day but it was also pretty cheap. The figure of $2200 sticks in my mind. I know that he put a fair amount of money in it before it was done but he/we had a lot of fun, too.
Next was a MK3 that we picked up in Texas and trailered home. It was also Chevy powered and had originally been part of a 2 car team in the '60s
The 3rd was a MK1 that, I believe, was built for Gurney and was Ford powered with 48downs and that loveley bundle of snakes exhaust ending in a pair of megaphones over the top of the rear body section.
The previous owner had run it in a couple of SCCA school events and then parked it in his side yard under a tarp. When he ran out of beer he would jump in the McLaren and drive it to the liquor store a half a mile away, toss a case of beer in the passenger seat and rocket back home again. Aaahh, those were the days.
That car ended up at restorer's shop in the Valley. Unfortunately, it was an old wood building with no fire system. When it burned, the McLaren, a Ferrari 275 GTB Competition berlinetta(worth as much as a GTO today) and a GT350R Shelby Mustang went with it. No insurance, the owner vanished.
Bill also had a MK6 with a big block Chevy in it but I don't know much about that one as I never did any work on it, nor did I ever drive it. I figured I'd been extremely lucky with the other 3 and by this time traffic in west LA was getting much more dense- so I chickened out.
That's all for now. I hope I haven't bored you.
Anton

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#80 Duncan Fox

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 21:16

Anton, do you mean the Gurney M1 burned? did you see the remains? It appears to have survived, Ive been trying to recontact Dean Sellers who owned it in 2001.

Bill, you are right these tube frame cars are hard to track, Ive been looking for my notes,and havnt as yet found them, I have a handle on the works cars , but am now uncertain of the exact chassis numbers on the M1s after Ted posted a photo over at the Zerex thread, of the protype M1 tagged BMMR 64-2, I had always thought this was #1. that chassis # is claimed by Dean for his Gurney car, (if he has does in fact have that one) I almost positive he doesnt have the prototype, more on that later.

Chad, hope you are well. Would you look at something for me on your car please? On the rear bulkhead in the lower r/h there should be a number stamped in the frame .this was Arch Moters i.d. On the M1Bs this # is out of sequence i.e. 30-01 (the NICKEY CHEVROLET car) is frame #3. production frames #1 & 2 were the late 66 Works M1B Can-Am entries .I am trying to establish if there are out of sequence nos in the M1 series also. The Gurney car was built at the works originally for Chris to drive at the Guards Trophy meeting as a 2nd Works entry and then to be delivered to Gurney, but he drove instead. I think this was a production frame. The white M1 at the Racing car show, was the 2nd works car. So if you can find a # it hopefully will be 1 more than your tag. BTW I have body off shots of you car taken late 70s.

An early M1 went to Vogele in Switzerland, does any one recall this.In a letter home to NZ dated 12th April 65 Bruce says "Elvas are way behind only 4 finished so far" the Coombes/Hill (#1)car the Vogele car, the Coundley car,being 3 of them.

Barry , Olthoffs car is chassis 13 Ive remembered this because of the number, Allen will be interested in that as we thought 13 was not used in later series.

David , Trojan built the Trojan200 bubble car. They were Lambretta agents also. I remember as a schoolboy in London seeing Trojan delivery vans on the streets . They had a remarkable little engine with a flexible " bendy" conrod.


I'd better go do some work ,I'll be back.

#81 barrykm

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 11:55

Duncan, thanks for info. on Bob Olthoff's car. :up:

#82 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:16

Originally posted by Duncan Fox
Barry , Olthoffs car is chassis 13 Ive remembered this because of the number, Allen will be interested in that as we thought 13 was not used in later series.

Certainly am!

#83 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:17

Bryan Miller sent me this to add. A little late but I was on holiday in France!

McLaren M1A , chassis no. 20/13.
Built August 1965 to the order of David Prophet [ Sth. Africa ] , delivered in std. spec. with Ford V8 and Hewland LG # 22 , painted in Prophets racing colours of Silver/ Grey.Poss driven at Brands Hatch after delivery before being shipped to Sth. Africa.
Sold to Bobby Olthoff for the 1966 Springbok Series , badly damaged
24/7/1966 , rebuilt and won Sth. African Sports Car Championship 1967 , involved in Sth African Land Speed record attemp 21/10/1967 at Bloemfontein , best one way speed of 182mph , and average of 177.97mph, record only stood for 39 days before being eclipsed by David Piper in his P4 .
Very little known untill car was at ADA eng in U.K. in 1984 , when sighted and purchased by Australian driver Max Warwick , car retained as of now , in correct silver colours etc.resident in Melbourne .

#84 teegeefla

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 18:12

I have seen photos of M1As with and without the spare tire under the windscreen...is that due to whether an event was run under FIA regs in the UK or "local rules" as in the USRRC, Can-Am, etc. That is my asumption, but then I also have seen some photos of these early cars racing in the states with the spare tire in place. What exactly were the rules? Was luggage space required also? And is that why the rubber horn is attached to the dash in the cockpit closeup?

#85 JPB

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 20:57

I have just purchased an M1B - the ex-Masten Gregory car - raced for many years in the USA by Michael Murray. Can anybody give me any information on this car.

It is my intention to race this car at historic meetings in the UK and some in Europe and would love to know more about it.

JPB

#86 JSF

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 00:08

This is the M1B/C i race prepare, which we run in the Orwell Supersports Cup and Gentleman Drivers. Photo was taken at Stoneliegh this weekend.

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JPB, if you would like to PM or email me some details, i'll see what i can find out for you.

#87 Pedro 917

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:56

Jerry Entin asked me to put these pictures up:

Here he is leading Jay Hills at Santa Barbara 1967:

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and here is his MkI (ex- Graham Hill) during the filming of the Elvis movie "Spinout" in 1966:

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#88 David M. Kane

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 13:16

Pedro 917:

Thanks for posting Jerry's photos, Santa Barbara apparently a great event? Any stories Jerry?
Don't be shy, don't be modest. The first photo, for example, has such get flow to it...

#89 Jerry Entin

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 13:29

Santa Barbara was a club race. It was held at the Airport in an area called Goletta. It was as they say an event. I believe something like 30,000 people came out over the weekend to see their friends and the cars of the day. It was a fun race. The other pictures were taken near a place called Paramount Ranch.

#90 Pedro 917

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 20:01

Some more pictures from Jerry :

A snapshot from a Union Oil commercial, Riverside 1967:

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action picture (Jerry in #1) :

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Monterey 1967, Jerry leading Bob Bondurant and Bud Morley:

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#91 Pedro 917

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 22:58

Jerry wrote that the Bondurant car was one of the two on the transporter (see post 61) in front of the Trojan building. It was sponsored by Dana Chevrolet. Jerry collided with Sam Posey and bent the steering arm on the right hand side. He was running 3rd and the ring and pinion went out. This was a USRRC race in 1967 at Monterey. The Entin car was a color called Nassau Blue, a stock 1967 Corvette color with a white stripe across the front. It was the ex Skip Scott car used at Nassau.

#92 David M. Kane

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:32

Pedro 917:

Mega stuff...when racin' was really racin' and men were real men. These were the dream cars that drove my passion as a kid.

California in this period looks so magical. I know I'm being idealistic...

#93 Allen Brown

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 22:51

Doug Brown asked me to post these:

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The first picture shows Prophet in the M1B; the second shows Olthoff in the ex-Prophet car.

from Doug Brown's email
heres a pic of Olthoff in the ex Prophet M1 being chased by Steve Mellett in the Mirage. Olthoffs M1 was sold to Tony Figureido of Salisbury Rhodesia. He had a big prang at Donnybrooke in it and we were offered the car for 5000 Rhodesian dollars (about 5000 quid) after it had been repaired. We passed as it had no chassis plate on it.....so there was no evidence that this was chassis 13.. This was in 1977/8, don't know what happened to it after that.

Hope this is helpful.

Allen

#94 Pedro 917

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 09:53

Some more pictures from Jerry:
First time out: Stardust Raceway in 1965. That is John Morton in a Lotus 23. I would call this a fair race. McLaren Olds with 300 plus horsepower racing Lotus:

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This is a McLaren Mk1 I had, not the Graham Hill car. At Willow Springs in 1966 I think it was raining and I had to start last because I wasn't there for qualifying day. I finished 2nd to Jim Adams in the Hollywood Sportscar McLaren:

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#95 Jerry Entin

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 01:17

I would just like to thank Ted for starting this post and I hope the viewers of it enjoy the pictures.Allen Kuhn has taken a very nice Picture of Graham Hill in the McLaren Mk 1 at Riverside in 1965 and Pedro 917 should be posting it very soon. Thanks Allen for loaning the site the photo. Photo below copyright 2006 Allen Kuhn

#96 Pedro 917

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 17:38

Here's another picture that Jerry sent me (courtesy of Allen Kuhn).
It shows Graham Hill at Riverside 1965 :

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#97 Cynic

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:41

I guess this question could fit in either the Zerex thread or here; in some ways this seems more logical, so....

In 1964, at an SCCA race at Hammond, Louisiana, near New Orleans, Dave Morgan raced a sports/racer which was supposed (pit gossip) to be the ex-Penske Zerex single-seater Cooper. I have some photos well hidden away -- so well I can't find them -- but my recollection is that the car looked very much like an early McLaren.

Clearly there are a couple of impossibilities/improbabilities in my recollection, but I was there, saw the car, and was willing then to believe the Penske connection based on its appearance.

Does anyone know what car this might have been? Is Dave Morgan (or one of his Texas or Oklahoma oil or insurance pals) in the ownership of any of the early McLarens? Any better ideas?

Cynic

Edit -- from some other evidence, the race may have been in 1965.

#98 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 18:21

Cynic

It's possible. You need to find those pictures.

The Zerex Special is still 'lost' although you'll see many people confidently say that it's in Venuzeula. All of these reports seem to be quoting an original reference that it was owned by a Venuzuelan in the late 1960s; that doesn't mean that's where it is in 2006. Finding where it went in 1965 would be a useful clue.

I posted a Ted Walker picture of the car at Nassau in late 1965 IIRC - I'll try to find that too.

Allen

#99 Cynic

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 18:26

Allen,

I found the four slides I took at Hammond in May, 1965. I'm off this afternoon to try to get them converted to digital. They show a car with a nose similar to the first McLaren (two nose openings and a pointed nose); the rear uses Cooper-style wheels. The center section and tail resemble a Cooper, or the Zerex in its real two-seat configuration. I'm pretty sure it's not the Zerex, but what is it? (Race number was 39, and the car was red.)

As soon as I get the digital images I'll post them. It would be nice to solve my 40 year old mystery.

Cynic

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#100 Allen Brown

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 18:43

Number 39 indeed. Does it look anything like this?

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This was taken at Nassau at the end of 1966 and is copyright Ted Walker who has been very kind to let me post the picture.

There was a thread about building a copy of the Penske Zerex Special where I originally posted this.

Allen